Current Events > Bernie Sanders unveils 2.5 Trillion dollar Housing For All plan

(+) Yeah! (+)

pls posted...

Most insurance plans provide preventive services for free already

i don't think you should be using the word 'most' there. the trump admin changed the rules for short term plans in particular

regardless, it's definitely not free if you pay eight thousand a year for the plan

and access is limited if the plans that cost much less don't have free preventative services (they don't, though some of them cover some of those services--but not 100% of the cost)
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

"exclusionary" zoning isn't the problem

It absolutely is. 100%, no denying it. You're crazy and anti-empirical if you think otherwise.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

local governments have the power to block housing in areas that are already zoned for housing, and they do it all the time

Yeah, that is also a problem. But it isn't the only problem. And allowing for higher density would still help with this, because developers can more easily recoup their costs from a development that takes 2 years to approve if the new development has 50 units instead of 4 or w/e

Broseph_Stalin posted...

he idea that restricting housing keeps rich people out and working people in is nonsense, but it doesnt' stop Bernie from believing in it.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say with this.

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Sackgurl posted...

i don't think you should be using the word 'most' there. the trump admin changed the rules for short term plans in particular

regardless, it's definitely not free if you pay eight thousand a year for the plan

and access is limited if the plans that cost much less don't have free preventative services (they don't)

well, its mandated on the marketplaces tbf. I think its also very common with ESI (might even be mandatory there thanks to obamacare)

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Webmaster4531 posted...

Bernie didn't invent property tax. WTF?

read his plan please

Balrog0 posted...

@Broseph_Stalin unless you think we can make zoning unconstitutional through a court case that considers it a regulatory taking or something what else do you think the federal government can do to address zoning except for incentivizing better zoning like this?

to start the federal government should withhold funding to local governments that restrict any kind of housing through zoning. i'm not talking about blocking a luxury apartment because dumb people think that helps poor people. bernie's GND also subsidizes urban sprawl which not going to help either.

Sackgurl posted...

i don't think you should be using the word 'most' there. the trump admin changed the rules for short term plans in particular

regardless, it's definitely not free if you pay eight thousand a year for the plan

and access is limited if the plans that cost much less don't have free preventative services (they don't)

Anyone who can't afford a plan that has free preventive services will most likely receive a subsidy via the ACA marketplace and thus have access to a plan that has them.

And if you can't call them free because of the premiums, you can't call it free care because of taxes. Let's be fair here.

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

to start the federal government should withhold funding to local governments that restrict any kind of housing through zoning.

I mean, I think Sanders is being too vague, but this is even more vague. All zoning restricts the kind of housing you can build. That is the whole point of zoning.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

bernie's GND also subsidizes urban sprawl which not going to help either.

Is that true? How? I havent looked into any of the climate plans tbh

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er, the taxes don't impact the kinds of people who can't afford partially subsidized health plans.
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

bernie's GND also subsidizes urban sprawl which not going to help either.

We have to "subsidize" it because it already exists and we don't have time to move everyone into mega cities before the climate has to be fixed.

Gotta address the issues where the people are. Not that I see anything really wrong with urban or suburban sprawl or lawns.

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Who is Sackgurl's main? Anyone know

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pls posted...

We have to "subsidize" it because it already exists and we don't have time to move everyone into mega cities before the climate has to be fixed.

Gotta address the issues where the people are. Not that I see anything really wrong with urban or suburban sprawl or lawns.

any serious plan to deal with climate change is gonna include a carbon tax that would necessarily reduce sprawl tbh

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Balrog0 posted...

any serious plan to deal with climate change is gonna include a carbon tax that would necessarily reduce sprawl tbh

Nah fuck the carbon tax.

If you can't fix climate change with $16 trillion over 10 years, a carbon tax won't help you.

All it would take to fix it btw is 1 trillion new trees. That would sequester more carbon than the entire planet emits, for a long time. Enough time to get us to fusion.

A carbon tax would hurt regular working people.

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I mean, if regular working people have lifestyles with destructive externalities then maybe they should hurt a bit

I don't think we will or should spend that much when a carbon tax would help as much or more than any GND proposal I've seen. like I said, haven't seen Bernie's specific plan.

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Awesome posted...

I Like Toast posted...

Hey look two videos that dont support your claim followed by flaming. Dont worry I'm sure errors never ending incompetence will protect you

dude you are a user who makes a scene to try to get someone modded when you dont like something thats posted, thats sad. your account is literally 16 years old and you act like a 16 year old.

do something productive with your life instead of getting offended at everything.

Should take your own advice.
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Balrog0 posted...

I mean, if regular working people have lifestyles with destructive externalities then maybe they should hurt a bit

I don't think we will or should spend that much when a carbon tax would help as much or more than any GND proposal I've seen. like I said, haven't seen Bernie's specific plan.

Yeah fuck the average working American for enjoying some air conditioning, a nice car, and a good meal. They should pay for their externalities by becoming as poor as the third world.

Who cares if we can just invest money into a smart grid and renewables and research to actually, you know, solve the problem.

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If Bernie wins the election, he will be one of the most disappointing Presidents ever. Not all of it will be his fault, but he'll fulfill almost none of his promises.

Warren's plans are more realistic tbh
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Balrog0 posted...

I don't even understand what you're trying to say with this.

This is how housing works in the US:

Property developer wants to build an apartment over an old gas station.
Locals block it from happening because those apartments are for rich tech bros and it would displace working-class people, for some reason.
Rich tech bros can't get those apartments so they go looking for existing units.
Turns out working-class people can't outbid tech bros.
Working-class people get displaced anyway because when there is a restricted supply of housing the poorest are the ones who end up homeless.

This obsession with what kind of housing gets built is what has turned entire cities into country clubs. The government does not need even more power when it comes to zoning, let people build.

proudclad you are a very extreme person
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Damn_Underscore posted...

If Bernie wins the election, he will be one of the most disappointing Presidents ever. Not all of it will be his fault, but he'll fulfill almost none of his promises.

Warren's plans are more realistic tbh

He for sure can implement a giant investment into solving climate change and he can probably get Medicare for all expanded greatly if he gets two terms. Everything else probably not.

Warren's investment amount into fighting climate change is pathetic so she doesn't have my support. $2.7 trillion over 15 years? Not enough, and too long. Fuck her.

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pls posted...

Yeah fuck the average working American for enjoying some air conditioning, a nice car, and a good meal. They should pay for their externalities by becoming as poor as the third world.

I'm pretty sure a $75/ton tax on carbon emissions translates into around $325/year for households in the lowest income quintile. Why don't they just not buy starbucks, right?

pls posted...

Who cares if we can just invest money into a smart grid and renewables and research to actually, you know, solve the problem.

I think you're vastly underestimating the problem. Do any of the Dems even back nuclear energy in the first place?

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

Webmaster4531 posted...

Bernie didn't invent property tax. WTF?

read his plan please

Okay.

Bernie Sanders didn't invent property tax. What's your point?
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

This is how housing works in the US:

Property developer wants to build an apartment over an old gas station.
Locals block it from happening because those apartments are for rich tech bros and it would displace working-class people, for some reason.
Rich tech bros can't get those apartments so they go looking for existing units.
Turns out working-class people can't outbid tech bros.
Working-class people get displaced anyway because when there is a restricted supply of housing the poorest are the ones who end up homeless.

This obsession with what kind of housing gets built is what has turned entire cities into country clubs. The government does not need even more power when it comes to zoning, let people build.

I guess I'm confused as to how it relates to the rest of your post. Bernie wants to make it easier to build higher densities, based on his housing plan, at least.

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Balrog0 posted...

I'm pretty sure a $75/ton tax on carbon emissions translates into around $325/year for households in the lowest income quintile. Why don't they just not buy starbucks, right?

Yeah fuck people for liking Starbucks. Why fix the problems at the level of the overwhelmingly largest contributors of CO2, which is just a handful of companies mostly in the oil sector? We can just have Balrog implement more taxes on the working man

Because we all know everyone signed up for ACA in order to avoid the tax, right? And there definitely is no risk of people just continuing their purchasing under more burden, which won't actually fix the problem.

Balrog0 posted...

I think you're vastly underestimating the problem. Do any of the Dems even back nuclear energy in the first place?

They do not except maybe for Biden I think? and it is my biggest criticism of Bernie and Warren's plans. But the magnitude of the investment should get us all the way to carbon neutral and carbon negative if we use it correctly, even if it doesn't involve nuclear.

$16 trillion over 10 years gets us a lot of renewables and research. All it would take is half a trillion to a trillion to plant 1 trillion trees which would decarbonize the planet.

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i don't want him using my money for this shit
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

This is how housing works in the US:

Property developer wants to build an apartment over an old gas station.
Locals block it from happening because those apartments are for rich tech bros and it would displace working-class people, for some reason.
Rich tech bros can't get those apartments so they go looking for existing units.
Turns out working-class people can't outbid tech bros.
Working-class people get displaced anyway because when there is a restricted supply of housing the poorest are the ones who end up homeless.

This obsession with what kind of housing gets built is what has turned entire cities into country clubs. The government does not need even more power when it comes to zoning, let people build.

No that is how it works in California and Seattle. We don't have that problem here in Chicagoland

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Also, one reason it's so problematic is that oftentimes the reason the neighbors can block the development at all is because there isn't by-right multifamily housing in that zone -- the developer needs to ask for a spot variance from a planning commission to build an apartment. which is legality obligated to notify the neighbors and ask for comments, which makes the process more political than it already admittedly is.

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Webmaster4531 posted...

Bernie Sanders didn't invent property tax. What's your point?

Literally no one said he did. Are you ok?

Balrog0 posted...

I guess I'm confused as to how it relates to the rest of your post. Bernie wants to make it easier to build higher densities, based on his housing plan, at least.

No bernie wants the same kind of government control over the building process, where some moron on a council can block construction because it's """exclusionary""". We don't need more of this garbage.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

No bernie wants the same kind of government control over the building process, where some moron on a council can block construction because it's """exclusionary""". We don't need more of this garbage

But....but.....BUT!!!! What about the bodegas? How will we stop gentrification?!?!

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pls posted...

Yeah fuck people for liking Starbucks. Why fix the problems at the level of the overwhelmingly largest contributors of CO2, which is just a handful of companies mostly in the oil sector? We can just have Balrog implement more taxes on the working man

it's a joke because in your prior persona you would say that kind of thing about people who aren't investing for retirement and are poor because they are bad with money

anyway you can't target the companies without targeting the consumer -- that's my whole point! either way you're saying you need to stop the behavior. why do you prefer a ban (on whatever corporate activity you think you could ban to change carbon emissions) over a tax on carbon emissions?

pls posted...

Because we all know everyone signed up for ACA in order to avoid the tax, right? And there definitely is no risk of people just continuing their purchasing under more burden, which won't actually fix the problem.

A tax on emissions would fall on both consumers and businesses, who would in aggregate change their behaviors in response to the higher costs.

pls posted...

They do not except maybe for Biden I think? and it is my biggest criticism of Bernie and Warren's plans. But the magnitude of the investment should get us all the way to carbon neutral and carbon negative if we use it correctly, even if it doesn't involve nuclear.

$16 trillion over 10 years gets us a lot of renewables and research. All it would take is half a trillion to a trillion to plant 1 trillion trees which would decarbonize the planet.

It would take the entirety of the US to do this. Where would we put them all? I assume you're referencing this study at least: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/07/adding-1-billion-hectares-forest-could-help-check-global-warming

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Pukelid posted...

proudclad you are a very extreme person

You mean someone who thinks theyre the smartest in the room all the time and has multiple gimmicks is extreme? Shocker.
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

Webmaster4531 posted...

Bernie Sanders didn't invent property tax. What's your point?

Literally no one said he did. Are you ok?

So why did you mention Bernie committed the sin of *gasp* taxing property? Dun dun duuuuuuuuun
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

No bernie wants the same kind of government control over the building process, where some moron on a council can block construction because it's """exclusionary""". We don't need more of this garbage.

I don't think you actually understand the terminology being used here, no offense. Exclusionary zoning refers to restrictions on density, dwelling limitations, and minimum lot sizes. An individual development can't be exclusionary, only the zoning code that enables it.

It is true that he isn't saying we can just overturn local decision-making, but what you just said isn't even coherent.

please elaborate again on what you would do to change zoning from the federal government's perspective. You never elaborated on your first proposal, which confused me, because it basically was to get rid of zoning entirely. It seems more like your argument isn't against zoning per se, but just the ability of localities to plan development at all. I also dislike that but it is a separate issue

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Balrog0 posted...

it's a joke because in your prior persona you would say that kind of thing about people who aren't investing for retirement and are poor because they are bad with money

Someone making bad financial decisions is entirely different from a politician CEman stunting the working man's standard of living.

Balrog0 posted...

anyway you can't target the companies without targeting the consumer

You absolutely can. Take a giant pile of money and invest into making the grid and transportation 100% renewable, including with tons of storage capacity for low times. That will basically collapse the Oil companies and get us a considerable distance of the way to unfucking the planet.

Take some of that giant pile of money and invest it into making the giant shipping vessels clean and renewable too.

Etc.

Balrog0 posted...

It would take the entirety of the US to do this. Where would we put them all? I assume you're referencing this study at least: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/07/adding-1-billion-hectares-forest-could-help-check-global-warming

You would plant them across the globe. $16 trillion gets us a lot of wiggle room for paying people to go work abroad, all expenses covered. In a few years we could get it done.

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Webmaster4531 posted...

So why did you mention Bernie committed the sin of *gasp* taxing property? Dun dun duuuuuu

i said he wants to introduce new taxes on private housing while taxing people to spend money on public housing

never once did i say he invented property taxation, how do you even manage to breathe?

pls posted...

You absolutely can. Take a giant pile of money and invest into making the grid and transportation 100% renewable, including with tons of storage capacity for low times. That will basically collapse the Oil companies and get us a considerable distance of the way to unfucking the planet.

Take some of that giant pile of money and invest it into making the giant shipping vessels clean and renewable too.

Maybe eventually it would -- but you understand that, economically, they aren't going to shutter coal plants and get rid of gas powered cars (and so on) just because an alternative exists, right? It's kind of surprising to see you think that throwing money at the problem will solve it tbh

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Balrog0 posted...

Maybe eventually it would -- but you understand that, economically, they aren't going to shutter coal plants and get rid of gas powered cars (and so on) just because an alternative exists, right? It's kind of surprising to see you think that throwing money at the problem will solve it tbh

LOL did you not know that the largest coal companies have been going bankrupt despite Trump's promises to save them?

Google it, they're closing rapidly because they can't compete with renewables.

Gas cars are short lived. We can address climate change with trees, solar, wind, and a smart grid before we get rid of all gas cars btw.

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/03/coal-collapse-third-company-may-files-bankruptcy/1644619001/


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I'm pretty damn coherent, but maybe I'm the only one itt who actually read the plan.

Create an office within the Department of Housing and Urban Development to coordinate and work with states and municipalities to strengthen rent control and tenant protections, implement fair and inclusive zoning ordinances, streamline review processes and direct funding where these changes are made.

This office will convene key leaders, academics, experts, local officials, renters, tenants, and homeowners to create and implement these necessary solutions.
Preempt laws that prevent inclusionary zoning for luxury developments.

End exclusionary and restrictive zoning ordinances and replace them with zoning that encourages racial, economic, and disability integration that makes housing more affordable.

Require that recipients of federal funding from the Department of Transportation and the Department of Housing and Urban Development make these important zoning reforms.

Provide funding to states that preempt local exclusionary zoning ordinances to make housing more equitable, accessible and affordable for all.

Bernie is not a YIMBY, get real.

pls posted...

LOL did you not know that the largest coal companies have been going bankrupt despite Trump's promises to save them?

Oh yeah, I'm aware. That's partially because of regulations and partially because of natural gas. But there are plenty of super polluters left with no timeline for closure, too...

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

never once did i say he invented property taxation, how do you even manage to breathe?

Neither did I say you said it. Since you've started with the insults let me give you an English lesson.

I said Bernie didn't invent property tax. That doesn't mean you said he did just that you implied it was somehow bad when Bernie does it but not every other instance of taxing property.

Broseph_Stalin posted...

i said he wants to introduce new taxes on private housing while taxing people to spend money on public housing

No, you didn't.
Broseph_Stalin posted...

Oh, Bernie doesn't hate private housing! He just wants to tax it,

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

I'm pretty damn coherent, but maybe I'm the only one itt who actually read the plan.

What do you think the quoted part proves?

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Balrog0 posted...

Oh yeah, I'm aware. That's partially because of regulations and partially because of natural gas. But there are plenty of super polluters left with no timeline for closure, too...

They can be bought out the moment we flip the switch and the entire grid is running on clean energy with plenty of storage capacity for night time use.

We just need the will to raise the capital and pay people to install the new tech on public land and in lots available all across the country.

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Another day, another Robin Hood policy proposed by the left. This is why Trump will get 4 more years.
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pls posted...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/03/coal-collapse-third-company-may-files-bankruptcy/1644619001/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/and-now-the-really-big-coal-plants-begin-to-close/

There are several caveats to consider. Units scheduled for retirement generally produce less in the years running up to their closure, meaning the plants that closed in 2015 once emitted more than they did near the end of their lives.
Theres also this: The vast majority of super-polluters have no closure date in sight. Thats because massive coal plants generally benefit from large economies of scale. Because they crank out power around the clock, their cost of generating electricity is relatively cheap.

The coal plants remaining have generally installed all the environmental controls, Larsen said. There are no additional regulatory threats, or they are cost-effective in a world where gas is $2.50 per MMBtu.

I agree it's a multifaceted issue.

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How to fix the homelessness problem.

Get rid of landlords and real estate companies. Both are nothing but scum.
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QueenCarly posted...

How to fix the homelessness problem.

Get rid of landlords and real estate companies. Both are nothing but scum.

Worked great in the Soviet Union and eastern Bloc of Europe

Absolutely no one starved to death or was wandering the streets

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QueenCarly posted...

How to fix the homelessness problem.

Get rid of landlords and real estate companies. Both are nothing but scum.

Sure.
Then, your housing will be in the form of an assigned bunk in the government barracks behind the government tank factory you've been assigned to work in.

pls posted...

QueenCarly posted...

How to fix the homelessness problem.

Get rid of landlords and real estate companies. Both are nothing but scum.

Worked great in the Soviet Union and eastern Bloc of Europe

Absolutely no one starved to death or was wandering the streets

It's not like awful famine occured or anything.

It's not like private farmers intentionally burned crops rather than collectivize.

Yep, definitely communism at fault.

FOH
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

Create an office within the Department of Housing and Urban Development to coordinate and work with states and municipalities to strengthen rent control and tenant protections, implement fair and inclusive zoning ordinances, streamline review processes and direct funding where these changes are made.

this is saying he wants to address the problem you have

Broseph_Stalin posted...

This office will convene key leaders, academics, experts, local officials, renters, tenants, and homeowners to create and implement these necessary solutions.
Preempt laws that prevent inclusionary zoning for luxury developments.

this is saying inclusionary zoning should not be outlawed

Broseph_Stalin posted...

End exclusionary and restrictive zoning ordinances and replace them with zoning that encourages racial, economic, and disability integration that makes housing more affordable.

this is saying to upzone

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Require that recipients of federal funding from the Department of Transportation and the Department of Housing and Urban Development make these important zoning reforms.

this is saying this is how you make them upzone

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Provide funding to states that preempt local exclusionary zoning ordinances to make housing more equitable, accessible and affordable for all.

this is saying that you give money to people who are proactive in upzoning

I'm sure that he wants more affordable housing set asides than a purist market urbanist would prefer but this is not bad. It's not NIMBY. It isn't empowering arbitrary local control that prevents housing. I really think you might be confused over the terminology or the different policies here, Im not trying to be insulting or perjorative

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I love watching Americans argue about shit other countries have figured out decades ago.
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Balrog0 posted...

What do you think the quoted part proves?

That he wants to increase goverment influence on what gets built based on his own judgement of what is inclusive or equitable.

As if that isn't already happening. As if that isn't what created the housing shortage.