Current Events > Trans Woman Beaten on Oregon Beach After Using Women's Restroom

(+) Yeah! (+)

pinky0926 posted...

I thought you guys wanted to argue in good faith? I am confused. Maybe we can get back to the subject matter?

Trans people should not get beaten up for existing
.

No one here said that they should

pinky0926 posted...

MaverickMerch posted...

Umbreon posted...

"Argue in good faith" says alt account with 3 karma who's argument is "Rapists inexplicably stopped by a bathroom sign".

I've never said that. Your entire post is irony.

Can you be clearer then about what you were implying when you bolded the "you're not allowed to go into" of my post, as if that is the end of that?

Forgive us for potentially reading into the implication incorrectly, it is difficult when you are personally so vague and yet demand responses to be so precise.

I never demanded any response to be precise. I said stop arguing in bad faith. Which you've just done again, with this response.

MaverickMerch posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I thought you guys wanted to argue in good faith? I am confused. Maybe we can get back to the subject matter?

Trans people should not get beaten up for existing
.

No one here said that they should

Ok that's almost a point you're making, good start

What about the other bits:

- gender signs on bathrooms are not effective rape-prevention devices
- a trans person being beaten up in this scenario is not proof that trans people in bathrooms are the problem, but proof that a violent psycho was in the wrong place at the wrong time
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shockthemonkey posted...

viewmaster_pi posted...

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

My account hasn't been in purgatory since, like, the Smash Bros. Brawl boards were big. I can't believe how hard you're gonna double (triple? quadruple?) down on the hyperdramatic smearing attempt. You either think I'm an alt and have me confused with someone else, or you're really just gonna straight-up lie so your side can sandbag me.

wack

Strange thing for you to lie about. Oh well. Doubt youll fool anyone though when youre advocating for more trans women to be assaulted.

When has he or anyone else here advocated for that ITT?

MaverickMerch posted...

I never demanded any response to be precise. I said stop arguing in bad faith. Which you've just done again, with this response.

One of us is actually addressing the subject matter and attempting to discuss it (me) and one of us is not (you). If the best and only point you've got is "stop being a meanie pants" then I guess what you've proven so far is that pinky0926 is not a very pleasant person. Well done?
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shockthemonkey posted...

Strange thing for you to lie about. Oh well. Doubt youll fool anyone though when youre advocating for more trans women to be assaulted.

Why don't you save this energy for crawling up onto your soapbox after your band plays for the 5 dudes who were too drunk to drive home on open mic night and fell asleep

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shockthemonkey posted...

Advocating that women use the mens bathroom is advocating for their assault.

Not least because that's where all the rapists are hanging out, being forbidden from going into the women's....
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shockthemonkey posted...

Advocating that women use the mens bathroom is advocating for their assault.

Can you say one single thing without being disingenuous or overdramatic in an attempt to attack the other person?

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pinky0926 posted...

MaverickMerch posted...

I never demanded any response to be precise. I said stop arguing in bad faith. Which you've just done again, with this response.

One of us is actually addressing the subject matter (me) and one of us is not you). If the best and only point you've got is "stop being a meanie pants" then I guess what you've proven so far is that I don't particularly like you. Well done?

What you're doing is literally changing what people actually said in their posts, and then you pretend to be all morally superior. I never said stop being a meanie pants, nor is being mean the issue here. You deliberately change what people are saying in their posts. You've done it 3 times now. Why would anyone want to engage in an intellectual discussion with someone who does that?

shockthemonkey posted...

Yes I understand that you want to pretend youre not advocating for the assault of trans women again but unfortunately your position is contrary to your claims.

A simple "no" would have sufficed

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MaverickMerch posted...

What you're doing is literally changing what people actually said in their posts, and then you pretend to be all morally superior. I never said stop being a meanie pants, nor is being mean the issue here. You deliberately change what people are saying in their posts. You've done it 3 times now. Why would anyone want to engage in an intellectual discussion with someone who does that?

There's a record of everything you've written in this topic, meaning any time I change what you written it's clearly in order to make a point itself, not an attempt to obfuscate or misquote your words (like that time you said something and I pretended that what you said was "nonsense". That's me making a point). Literally anyone (including me and you) can go back and see what you originally put down.

There's nothing intellectual about this discussion, because any time we've gotten close to discussing the actual scenario here you've fallen back on "you insulted me and that's not verbatim what I wrote".

That is not a position unless "hah, I caught you not being anatomically correct with my phrasing" to be an opinion.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Dont worry, I dont expect you to actually acknowledge the outcomes of your position. Just like I dont expect you to acknowledge all the time youve spent in time out for making anti-trans posts.

I appreciate how eager you are to demonstrate that you can't talk about anything without getting "shook" as the kids say, and devolving into petty finger-pointing, but it's really not necessary anymore

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pinky0926 posted...

MaverickMerch posted...

What you're doing is literally changing what people actually said in their posts, and then you pretend to be all morally superior. I never said stop being a meanie pants, nor is being mean the issue here. You deliberately change what people are saying in their posts. You've done it 3 times now. Why would anyone want to engage in an intellectual discussion with someone who does that?

There's a record of everything you've written in this topic, meaning any time I change what you written it's clearly in order to make a point itself, not an attempt to obfuscate or misquote your words. Literally anyone (including me and you) can go back and see what you originally pointed out.

There's nothing intellectual about this discussion, because any time we've gotten close to discussing the actual scenario here you've fallen back on "you insulted me and that's not verbatim what I wrote".

That is not a position unless "hah, I caught you not being anatomically correct with my phrasing" to be an opinion.

I know what I wrote. I don't need to go back and reread it. You're making points about what I wrote that are blatantly incorrect, and then you're surprised when no one wants to engage you about something more serious. You've done it for a 4th time here. Stop putting something in quotes and then pretend that I said it, when the context isnt even close to correct.

Are you just adding numbers every time? lol

That's like the 7th time you've done that dude, maybe the 10th I dunno
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viewmaster_pi posted...

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I appreciate how eager you are to demonstrate that you can't talk about anything without getting "shook" as the kids say, and devolving into petty finger-pointing, but it's really not necessary anymore

This assumes that it was ever necessary.

pinky0926 posted...

Are you just adding numbers every time? lol

That's like the 7th time you've done that dude, maybe the 10th I dunno

Every time you reply to me, you blatantly misrepresent my stance with a completely incorrect quote that isn't even contextually close to the ballpark. So far its been 4, I'm sure number 5 is coming.

Who posted

shockthemonkey posted...

MaverickMerch posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Are you just adding numbers every time? lol

That's like the 7th time you've done that dude, maybe the 10th I dunno

Every time you reply to me, you blatantly misrepresent my stance with a completely incorrect quote that isn't even contextually close to the ballpark. So far its been 4, I'm sure number 5 is coming.

Why dont you just state your stance?

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MaverickMerch posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Are you just adding numbers every time? lol

That's like the 7th time you've done that dude, maybe the 10th I dunno

Every time you reply to me, you blatantly misrepresent my stance with a completely incorrect quote that isn't even contextually close to the ballpark. So far its been 4, I'm sure number 5 is coming.

Honestly dude you can't be all shitty about being misunderstood when you're speaking more vaguely than marco pierre white after hitting the bong
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pinky0926 posted...

MaverickMerch posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Are you just adding numbers every time? lol

That's like the 7th time you've done that dude, maybe the 10th I dunno

Every time you reply to me, you blatantly misrepresent my stance with a completely incorrect quote that isn't even contextually close to the ballpark. So far its been 4, I'm sure number 5 is coming.

Honestly dude you can't be all shitty about being misunderstood when you're speaking more vaguely than marco pierre white after hitting the bong

Nothing about what I posted has been vague. I already stated that transgender folks shouldnt be getting attacked. Whats vague about that? I also stated that you like to misquote people and take their messages out of context. Nothing vague about that either.

Blue_Dream87 posted...

Should be attempted murder the way he beat her

I agree completely. She could have died ffs.
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pinky0926 posted...

I thought you guys wanted to argue in good faith? I am confused. Maybe we can get back to the subject matter?

Trans people should not get beaten up for existing. Putting a gender sign on a door does not prevent raping. If a guy decides to beat the crap out of a trans person for walking into a female bathroom that just means he is an absolute nutcase and should be behind bars. Discuss.

Agreed? Are we really going to attribute this case to problematic rhetoric when the offender was drunk with a criminal record, and justice is being appropriately served to this piece of shit?

I mean come in. You want to talk about good faith and this is a case of known criminal under the influence of a substance assaulted a person unprovoked, and he will face the consequences of his actions as dictated by the justice system. Case fucking closed, open and shut.

EDIT: I just completely misread your post and apologize lol.
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MaverickMerch posted...

Nothing about what I posted has been vague. I already stated that transgender folks shouldnt be getting attacked. Whats vague about that? I also stated that you like to misquote people and take their messages out of context. Nothing vague about that either.

Ok great. What else do you think? "transgender folks shouldnt be getting attacked" is fine and all but it's kind of the least spicy part about this whole discussion. How about the original thing we were discussing, which is whether or not you think gendered signposts on bathrooms is an effective means of preventing rapists?

(I took special care to quote you precisely there, hope it was ok)
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The entire discussion after all is about whether we should let trans people use their preferred gendered bathroom because it might invite more rapes, or allow rapists easier access to do the raping they already had planned out. That's what all the hubbub is about here.

@MaverickMerch, that is what you've been quite vague on. If you want to have a good faith discussion, let's start with that.
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MrPeppers posted...

pinky0926 posted...

I thought you guys wanted to argue in good faith? I am confused. Maybe we can get back to the subject matter?

Trans people should not get beaten up for existing. Putting a gender sign on a door does not prevent raping. If a guy decides to beat the crap out of a trans person for walking into a female bathroom that just means he is an absolute nutcase and should be behind bars. Discuss.

Agreed? Are we really going to attribute this case to problematic rhetoric when the offender was drunk with a criminal record, and justice is being appropriately served to this piece of shit?

I mean come in. You want to talk about good faith and this is a case of known criminal under the influence of a substance assaulted a person unprovoked, and he will face the consequences of his actions as dictated by the justice system. Case fucking closed, open and shut.

EDIT: I just completely misread your post and apologize lol.

No stress.
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pinky0926 posted...

MaverickMerch posted...

Nothing about what I posted has been vague. I already stated that transgender folks shouldnt be getting attacked. Whats vague about that? I also stated that you like to misquote people and take their messages out of context. Nothing vague about that either.

Ok great. What else do you think? "transgender folks shouldnt be getting attacked" is fine and all but it's kind of the least spicy part about this whole discussion. How about the original thing we were discussing, which is whether or not you think gendered signposts on bathrooms is an effective means of preventing rapists?

(I took special care to quote you precisely there, hope it was ok)

Signs don't stop crime. That's a nonsensical argument. But there needs to be a discussion on how to handle these bathroom/gender situations. Because these incidents keep coming up. There are people who don't feel comfortable letting their 13 year old daughter go into a bathroom, and then see what appears to be a grown man, go in right behind her.

MaverickMerch posted...

Signs don't stop crime. That's a nonsensical argument. But there needs to be a discussion on how to handle these bathroom/gender situations. Because these incidents keep coming up. There are people who don't feel comfortable letting their 13 year old daughter go into a bathroom, and then see what appears to be a grown man, go in right behind her.

Alright, but I wonder if that feeling of discomfort is more to do with the same personal prejudice that has single father's being harrassed for taking their own children to the park, or checking into a hotel:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/father-reported-paedophilia-checking-hotel-daughter/

In other words, is it a problem with transgender women, or is it more of a problem with society's rather horrible views on men?

I think it's the latter. In any case, I don't think transgender rapists are such a genuine societal concern that we should be legislating harshly on it.
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It really makes me sad that anyone has to argue for trans peoples right to simply exist and not be assaulted
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pinky0926 posted...

MaverickMerch posted...

Signs don't stop crime. That's a nonsensical argument. But there needs to be a discussion on how to handle these bathroom/gender situations. Because these incidents keep coming up. There are people who don't feel comfortable letting their 13 year old daughter go into a bathroom, and then see what appears to be a grown man, go in right behind her.

Alright, but I wonder if that feeling of discomfort is more to do with the same personal prejudice that has single father's being harrassed for taking their own children to the park, or checking into a hotel:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/05/father-reported-paedophilia-checking-hotel-daughter/

In other words, is it a problem with transgender women, or is it more of a problem with society's rather horrible views on men?

I think it's the latter. In any case, I don't think transgender rapists are such a genuine societal concern that we should be legislating harshly on it.

It has nothing to do with transgender issues, and more to do with the issue of sexual crimes overall. These acts which happen all the time, around the world, make people distrusting of strangers in general, which is one of the main reasons that they're segregated bathrooms in the first place. Its a very basic deterrent. It's like a small flimsy, chained linked fence, surrounding a building. It does little to stop someone who is committed to getting in, but helps deter opportunists and adds a feeling of safety.

MaverickMerch posted...

It has nothing to do with transgender issues, and more to do with the issue of sexual crimes overall. These acts which happen all the time, around the world, make people distrusting of strangers in general, which is one of the main reasons that they're segregated bathrooms in the first place. Its a very basic deterrent. It's like a small flimsy, chained linked fence, surrounding a building. It does little to stop someone who is committed to getting in, but helps deter opportunists and adds a feeling of safety.

Strange to me tthat you say that because it seems hat society is becoming more accepting of non-gendered bathrooms, as gendered bathrooms have always been the case as long as anyone can remember.
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Hairistotle posted...

that Maverick dude's account was created this week

Yea and? Do want to contribute to the topic or just make irrelevant observations?

I don't get any arguments about rights and stuff. The guy got arrested and had charges being pressed against him

No different then if he beat a cis woman with no coming out of a bathroom. Its deplorable.

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pinky0926 posted...

MaverickMerch posted...

It has nothing to do with transgender issues, and more to do with the issue of sexual crimes overall. These acts which happen all the time, around the world, make people distrusting of strangers in general, which is one of the main reasons that they're segregated bathrooms in the first place. Its a very basic deterrent. It's like a small flimsy, chained linked fence, surrounding a building. It does little to stop someone who is committed to getting in, but helps deter opportunists and adds a feeling of safety.

Strange to me tthat you say that because it seems hat society is becoming more accepting of non-gendered bathrooms, as gendered bathrooms have always been the case as long as anyone can remember.

If people are more accepting to it as a culture, then it wouldn't be an issue. I personally don't care what bathroom anyone uses. But not everyone agrees atm. I'm sure it will change at some point. Bigotry never survives in the long run.

A man isn't going to face the same dangers when a woman enters a men's bathroom.

The same can't be said for the opposite.

Has this fact been posted yet? Last I checked this topic, it was only at around 130 pages

Ah, I can agree to that^

Slightly off topic, reading through Resetera topics for lols, there appears to be something called 'Passability' for transfolk, vaguely similar to the paper bag test for black peoples.

That's pretty tragic.

Hopefully the victim woman will get proper reconstruction surgery for her face and the attacker get a few years in prison.

I can't stop misreading this thread title to say Oregon Trail instead of Beach....

HasaDiga posted...

I can't stop misreading this thread title to say Oregon Trail instead of Beach....

I suppose getting beat up by a bigot is slightly less awful than dying of dysentery.

I've seen two pages that are mostly "that's not what I said", so here's a hijack:

How many examples of bathroom rape are there compared to assault on trans people?

Now both sides can freely present evidence without he said she said bullshit.
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Evening_Dragon posted...

I've seen two pages that are mostly "that's not what I said", so here's a hijack:

How many examples of bathroom rape are there compared to assault on trans people?

Now both sides can freely present evidence without he said she said bullshit.

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Expected, yet still disappointing.
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