Current Events > 1998 Zelda holds up well to its counterpart that was made 19 years later.

(+) Yeah! (+)

And that's fucking incredible.

Ocarina of Time didn't have the technology, budget or time allowance that Breath of the Wild had, yet still manages to surpass it in many ways.

-Themed dungeons that felt unique and provided memorable experiences
-Unique bosses that added a sense of dread and excitement when you opened the door to the boss room
-Cool gizmos and gadgets that gave you a sense of progression, and always felt like rewarding surprises when you obtained them half way through a dungeon

That's not to say Breath of the Wild isn't strong in many areas where Ocarina of Time isn't. Clearly the overworld is better and an absolute thrill to explore. There are more things to do and replay value is probably way higher, especially if you're like me and didn't have any of the DLC or master mode on your first playthrough.

But none of those strengths I mentioned about Breath of the Wild gave me the emotions and excitement that were provided to me once again when I played OoT immediately after finishing BotW for the first time. And I'm not talking about nostalgia. The feeling I got when I could zip around rooms after getting the hookshot was nice. Mini bosses half way through each dungeon that felt meaningful added another layer of tangibility to the dungeons that were already more fleshed out than their Divine Beast counterparts. Acquiring Epona was a much more rewarding feeling than breaking some random horse RDR style. Getting the Biggoron's sword was like its own unique story within the grand story of the game. Taking a 7 year nap and then seeing the dilapidated castle town was bone chilling.

Breath of the Wild let me climb to any surface and gave me infinite routes to my goals and had THOUSANDS of fascinating things to explore. But after a while I started noticing all these things lead to the same goals over and over: getting a korok seed or unlocking a shrine, the inside of which looks and feels the same as the other 119 and always rewards me with a Spirit Orb. Everything started to lose its excitment, especially during my 2nd playthrough, when I noticed nothing unique was really happening, despite the fact that the game felt like it had so much more.
---

I'd say Legend of Zelda 1 is a top tier game in being rewarding as well. It's so dang hard at first, but I like how rupees are actually crucial and worth collecting, among other things. It's kind of sad most Zelda games dropped what made Zelda 1 so great.
---

biggernails posted...

I'd say Legend of Zelda 1 is a top tier game in being rewarding as well. It's so dang hard at first, but I like how rupees are actually crucial and worth collecting, among other things. It's kind of sad most Zelda games dropped what made Zelda 1 so great.

I agree. I beat Zelda 1 without a guide in 2017. Every item I found was its own reward, and every secret I found felt earned and deserved. Things felt more organic than structured.

Dark Souls has more in common with classic Zelda than modern Zelda. Which is why I think of Dark Souls games as proper modern Zelda games.
---

You know, I wonder if they intentionally made the different Zelda games distinct so that no Zelda game would become completely obsolete? Maybe? Maybe so?
---

zelda 2 is kinda neat.

avoidable random encounters was way ahead of its time. i wonder if zelda 2 was first at it -- a staple of modern RPG games started in zelda 2. that'd be batty.

Dark Souls has more in common with classic Zelda than modern Zelda. Which is why I think of Dark Souls games as proper modern Zelda games.

if the 'dangerous to go alone!' guy gave you the blue potion instead (and you couldn't get the red one until halfway through or something) -- i think that's already a bit more interesting.

it's just a shame that there isn't much in the way of weapon variety, but at least the red candle is basically a pyromancy flame.

link was literally a great combustion-spamming scrub before it was cool.
---

yeah, the items from the very first zelda game already kicked ass, which is surprising to me. maybe that's partly why it was such a huge success
---

imagine if you had a ladder in dark souls. but it worked a little more like one -- it wasn't just for going over water. it just gave the chosen undead a bit more range in every direction after you get it.

one feature i figured out and used a bunch was that you could change your swing direction mid-animation. you can do that in dark souls too and that's kinda nuts. i just wish it was more of a swing than a poke. i bet you could dead-angle the iron knuckles.
---

Those are the 2 best Zeldas
---

And OOT is my favorite game
---

The first Zelda also taught us geometry exploits.
Enemy sprites (including projectiles) never entered doorway tiles, enemies couldn't cross the ladder, and Link could move halfway into tiles from below.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The first Zelda also taught us geometry exploits.
Enemy sprites (including projectiles) never entered doorway tiles, enemies couldn't cross the ladder, and Link could move halfway into tiles from below.

it trained us well
---

this whole idea is so balance-y interesting to me. would it be reasonable to expect a new player to be able to get from the first cave to clearing the first boss on only six hearts?

that's the other fun thing about this. they're full-heals; it's like leveling a flask in inverse, because they're only as strong as your pool is deep.
---

Yeah the changing swing direction mid poke can be very useful for hitting multiple enemies around you in Zelda 1. I used that a lot. It's been a while but also might make your movement away from a wizrobe, or darknut, or whatever faster. Helping you to not take a hit.
---

Pancake posted...

i bet you could dead-angle the iron knuckles.

don't know exactly what you mean by this, but this is sorta cool https://files.catbox.moe/b4jbgx.png

you can also hit them in 1 size corridors even as they're walking directly toward you if you turn 90 degrees and slash with very good timin. they basically need to touch you just as your sword comes out and they will take damage allowing you to pass through them unharmed
---

basically a dead angle is a hit that gets through a shield because the game thinks it's facing the same way.

so the bomb trick is a nice example of that and it sounds like the insta-turn trick might be too. i'd have to see that one in action, i think.
---

I don't care for Bethesda of the Wild.

As somebody who also rebeat OoT a few weeks ago, I don't really agree.

Don't get me wrong, OoT is a fun game and I enjoyed my playthrough, but I can't say I feel particularly emotional about it. Of course, as a kid I didn't really like it (I spent far more time in SM64 and Banjo Kazooie). It's a game I appreciate more as an adult because I can appreciate its game mechanics, but it doesn't absorb more as more than the sum of its parts.

I would say your feelings echo my feelings of Mario 64 vs Mario Odyssey. If you took the general structure of the OP and replaced some the games I have a feeling I'd be inclined to agree, which is funny thinking about it.

Edit: Rereading your post more carefully, I see your point. I don't mean to say BotW is better in every way, but for me it is a much more enjoyable and emotionally impactful package than OoT ever was, even when I was young.
---

Breath of the Wild's atmosphere and themed settings are spread out across an entire world. Not that OoT doesn't hold up, it does, but I think people are too critical of BotW for essentially not being OoT or whatever their favorite is and not following those beats and style of world building. They are both masterpieces for their time.

On Mario 64... As a zoomer I think that game straight up doesn't hold up. I can't even say that most of the worlds are particularly exciting or noteworthy. It's a game that feels like it's riding off of "look Ma I can move in the third dimension!" And OoT didn't have that issue imo.
---

Doe posted...

It's a game that feels like it's riding off of "look Ma I can move in the third dimension!" And OoT didn't have that issue imo.

Maybe but I see it as an asset rather than a negative. Since the game is designed around showcasing 3D, that joyous beckoning you to jump in comes through. With the Mario charm on top on that it's a good time. I will say some of the controls and stuff weren't there yet though, and that it's impossible for nostalgia to not be a part of it. This game pushes that button hard for me
---

An_Actual_Chad posted...

And that's fucking incredible.

Ocarina of Time didn't have the technology, budget or time allowance that Breath of the Wild had, yet still manages to surpass it in many ways.

-Themed dungeons that felt unique and provided memorable experiences
-Unique bosses that added a sense of dread and excitement when you opened the door to the boss room
-Cool gizmos and gadgets that gave you a sense of progression, and always felt like rewarding surprises when you obtained them half way through a dungeon

That's not to say Breath of the Wild isn't strong in many areas where Ocarina of Time isn't. Clearly the overworld is better and an absolute thrill to explore. There are more things to do and replay value is probably way higher, especially if you're like me and didn't have any of the DLC or master mode on your first playthrough.

But none of those strengths I mentioned about Breath of the Wild gave me the emotions and excitement that were provided to me once again when I played OoT immediately after finishing BotW for the first time. And I'm not talking about nostalgia. The feeling I got when I could zip around rooms after getting the hookshot was nice. Mini bosses half way through each dungeon that felt meaningful added another layer of tangibility to the dungeons that were already more fleshed out than their Divine Beast counterparts. Acquiring Epona was a much more rewarding feeling than breaking some random horse RDR style. Getting the Biggoron's sword was like its own unique story within the grand story of the game. Taking a 7 year nap and then seeing the dilapidated castle town was bone chilling.

Breath of the Wild let me climb to any surface and gave me infinite routes to my goals and had THOUSANDS of fascinating things to explore. But after a while I started noticing all these things lead to the same goals over and over: getting a korok seed or unlocking a shrine, the inside of which looks and feels the same as the other 119 and always rewards me with a Spirit Orb. Everything started to lose its excitment, especially during my 2nd playthrough, when I noticed nothing unique was really happening, despite the fact that the game felt like it had so much more.

Great post, I agree with all of that.

---

Doe posted...

On Mario 64... As a zoomer I think that game straight up doesn't hold up. I can't even say that most of the worlds are particularly exciting or noteworthy. It's a game that feels like it's riding off of "look Ma I can move in the third dimension!" And OoT didn't have that issue imo.

Eh, a lot of puzzles in OoT did rely on simple 3D spatial awareness. In general I think 2D zelda games released around the time of OoT have better puzzles and dungeons though (LttP, OoA, LA), and I generally prefer 2D Zelda to 3D Zelda so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I'm not sure what a zoomer is, but I enjoy Mario 64 for the fun movement, in the end. Easy to learn, difficult to master, and enjoyable just to jump around and fine new ways to move about levels and get starts. But I love 3D Mario in general (and prefer it to 2D Mario), and there isn't a single 3D Mario game I don't think is great. My favorite game is probably Mario Galaxy (or at least top 5).

Zelda is a series I sort of have mixed feelings about, so I'm not sure I have the best opinion on which games are the best.
---

I feel this way about Metal Gear Solid 1 compared to MGSV.
---

Jabodie posted...

I'm not sure what a zoomer is,

Gen Z.
---

Ah, I was born in '95 for reference.
---

Pancake posted...

so the bomb trick is a nice example of that and it sounds like the insta-turn trick might be too. i'd have to see that one in action, i think.

it's not really insta-turn, it's more about timing the slash https://files.catbox.moe/faq1oe.mp4
---

yup. that's a dead-angle.

the attack passes through the shield because the game reads it as coming from an unprotected side. it also seems that link's entire sprite becomes a hurtbox when he's attacking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wk7-Iy7-8A" data-time="&start=122

whole video is about them but that's where the in-play examples really start.
---