Current Events > Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age playthrough thread (expect SPOILERS)

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DaveTheUseless posted...

Wonder if it's possible to hack your way through the deadlands at this point in the game, even if Fran warns you not to bother.

On every playthough after my first, I've at least gone into the Necrohol before reaching Phon Coast, so I can grab the Zodiac Spear and not have to be paranoid about those fucking chests any longer.

Although when I reach that point in the game, I'm usually pretty overleveled. Most of the time I have Fran fight Judge Bergan solo for some challenge.
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Pinechops, sandalwood, wtf

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why tf did Fran stare at Jules like that

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Ran through the deadlands and that ancient temple of death. Didn't get anything, but somehow didn't get a game over.

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How you feel about the gambit system, TC?

I found it fun to feel like a game designer programming AI at first, but it quickly turned to boredom when it sunk in that the end result is the game autoplaying battles for me.
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DaveTheUseless posted...

Judge Balthier, and other RPG plot twists you were not anticipating.

Judge Ffamran. Pardon me.

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DeadBankerDream posted...

How you feel about the gambit system, TC?

I found it fun to feel like a game designer programming AI at first, but it quickly turned to boredom when it sunk in that the end result is the game autoplaying battles for me.

I like not mashing x, yet at the same time I think this system lessens immersion. Double-edged sword.

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Probably has something to do with Dragon Age not being the twelfth main entry in a series that has never taken control away from the player and handed it to an AI before. Also probably has to do with Dragon Age (only talking about the first havent played the others) not being designed in such a way that really the most optimal way to play is to even AI control your player character and only manually step in if you need to take unexpected actions.
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Just did my 'research' and yes, the 4 treasure chest Zodiac Spear nonsense was removed in TZA.

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Cid does look and sound a lot like Balthier, and have similar mannerisms. Well done, Square.

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I remember hating the battle system when it came out. Hell I prefer 13s system over it.
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Well, FF13 has a great battle system that exists in an extremely poorly executed game, which includes the way enemy encounters are constructed. Which means that the positives of the system rarely come into play unless you're really into it and the negatives are always in full force.
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DeadBankerDream posted...

How you feel about the gambit system, TC?

I found it fun to feel like a game designer programming AI at first, but it quickly turned to boredom when it sunk in that the end result is the game autoplaying battles for me.

I'd kill to have a Gambit system in any action-adventure game with borderline-braindead AI followers, like Skyrim.
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The Zodiac spear quest is gone. It's still found in random chest drops and a once spawning chest in the great crystal (I think). Instead we reworked several combat mechanics that kind of leave spear being kind of okay instead of best-in-slot (still debatable in vanilla when you look at elemental vulnerabilities). And then we added a bunch of new 'ultimate' weapons for just about every weapon type.

And then on top of that we added the three debug weapons, all three invisible, all three with insane broken stats that trivialize the game. Also removing the damage cap makes magic actually useful on characters with high magic. Before magic was probably most useful for pumping damage on katanas, since they use strength and magic to determine damage (this is why the bushi job has decent magic boosts compared to other melee jobs).
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Another embroidered tippet! Lucky.....

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Accidentally got into the fight with the plant boss in the Feywood, and somehow survived it despite not being equipped to counter the status ailments.

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DeadBankerDream posted...

Well, FF13 has a great battle system that exists in an extremely poorly executed game, which includes the way enemy encounters are constructed. Which means that the positives of the system rarely come into play unless you're really into it and the negatives are always in full force.

I wouldn't say the battle system is flawless though. It still follows the idea that you only control a single character while everyone else is AI controlled. If they had that system but full control like 7 through 10 then it would arguably be the best system of any Final Fantasy.

Also, I did a really crappy job with the classes I went with and am still relying on having a main party member use Cure. I have a party member that I've barely used who has a zillion useful white magic spells. My playthrough would have been a billion times easier lately if I had included them in my main three. l0l

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They might have been stronger, but with how the equipment system works, I doubt they're totally useless. Put them in your team and start hunting for some rare materials to craft your endgame weapons. They'll catch up quick.
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I kinda wish this game had a goofy optional party member who didn't have any direct interest in the war itself.

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DaveTheUseless posted...

I kinda wish this game had a goofy optional party member who didn't have any direct interest in the war itself.

You could argue that is Penelo. You'd be wrong. She's just as affected as Vaan, it's just less personal for her. But to hear people on this bored talk about her you'd assume she was just a hapless comic relief little girl.

Actually though, Fran doesn't have any direct interest in the outcome of the war. Her only interest is Balthier. And his primary interest in the conflict is a personal beef with his father and his machinations. There is a case to be made that beef has larger implications for the safety of anyone living between the Rozzarian and Arcadian empires, but that conflict is not why Balthier decides to intervene
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Neither Vaan or Penelo has any business being in the game. Like, I can overlook shit gameplay in an RPG but if what I can see could have been an excellent story is compromised and shitted on because we cant have the main character be someone who is older than 17, thats unforgiveable. And that's what FF12 does.
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DeadBankerDream posted...

Neither Vaan or Penelo has any business being in the game. Like, I can overlook shit gameplay in an RPG but if what I can see could have been an excellent story is compromised and shitted on because we cant have the main character be someone who is older than 17, thats unforgiveable. And that's what FF12 does.

The only reason Vaan is in the game is because he accidentally runs into Ashe. If that never happened then he just cleans the Rabanastre sewers out of rats for the whole game.

Strictly put the entire fucking party is wrong.

The game should have been Ashe as the main character.

The party members should have been Balthier, Fran, Larsa, Al-Cid, and Elza

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Always fun when you get rewarded for your curiosity with something like a Golden Amulet...

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Tyranthraxus posted...

DeadBankerDream posted...

Neither Vaan or Penelo has any business being in the game. Like, I can overlook shit gameplay in an RPG but if what I can see could have been an excellent story is compromised and shitted on because we cant have the main character be someone who is older than 17, thats unforgiveable. And that's what FF12 does.

The only reason Vaan is in the game is because he accidentally runs into Ashe. If that never happened then he just cleans the Rabanastre sewers out of rats for the whole game.

Strictly put the entire fucking party is wrong.

The game should have been Ashe as the main character.

The party members should have been Balthier, Fran, Larsa, Al-Cid, and Elza

I think you could have had Basche as the main character as well.
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

I think you could have had Basche as the main character as well.

Honestly Basch was a dumb inclusion and Vaan's willingness to take "no it was my evil twin" excuse at face value is the dumbest shit ever.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

I think you could have had Basche as the main character as well.

Honestly Basch was a dumb inclusion and Vaan's willingness to take "no it was my evil twin" excuse at face value is the dumbest shit ever.

He doesn't just take it. Balthier convinces him that escaping the Barheim Passage is more important than settling his grievances with Basch. And by the time they escape he's convinced that Basch isn't as bad as the rumors claim and that hating him won't bring back his brother or his parents.

Fun fact: Through that whole situation Balthier knows Basch is telling the truth.
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hollow_shrine posted...

He doesn't just take it. Balthier convinces him that escaping the Barheim Passage is more important than settling his grievances with Basch. And by the time they escape he's convinced that Basch isn't as bad as the rumors claim and that hating him won't bring back his brother or his parents.

Fun fact: Through that whole situation Balthier knows Basch is telling the truth.

Larsa also must have known and didn't say anything.

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If I'm going to complain about something, it's the times that I try to grab a treasure but the battle menu comes up instead.

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Honestly Basch was a dumb inclusion and Vaan's willingness to take "no it was my evil twin" excuse at face value is the dumbest shit ever.

Wow, people are seriously analyzing the plot of FF12? Of all the FF games I played, this plot was the one I remember the least. Plot events were just some thing I had to sit through so more huge areas would open up so I could get back to exploring and doing hunts.

With that said, I loved this game but I'm wary of the changes that the Zodiac version made...I kinda like the simplicity of the original.

Hotel_Security posted...

Honestly Basch was a dumb inclusion and Vaan's willingness to take "no it was my evil twin" excuse at face value is the dumbest shit ever.

Wow, people are seriously analyzing the plot of FF12? Of all the FF games I played, this plot was the one I remember the least. Plot events were just some thing I had to sit through so more huge areas would open up so I could get back to exploring and doing hunts.

With that said, I loved this game but I'm wary of the changes that the Zodiac version made...I kinda like the simplicity of the original.

FF12 actually has a salvageable plot. There's also a lot of parallels for WW2 Japan.

Nabudis = Hiroshima / Nagasaki
Nethecite / Deicite = nukes
Solidor = America
Ashe is the Imperial Japanese spirit fighting to take back their country and tries to do so using nukes herself but realized that it's wrong and that honorable victory had to be achieved some other way

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whoops I forgot where Gigas is l0l

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Tyranthraxus posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

He doesn't just take it. Balthier convinces him that escaping the Barheim Passage is more important than settling his grievances with Basch. And by the time they escape he's convinced that Basch isn't as bad as the rumors claim and that hating him won't bring back his brother or his parents.

Fun fact: Through that whole situation Balthier knows Basch is telling the truth.

Larsa also must have known and didn't say anything.

Larsa knows how Gabranth appears and likely knows he's a twin but he doesn't seem to have not known his and Vayne's hand in the toppling of Dalmasca and the fabrication of the betrayal narrative. At least not judging by his reaction to the events in the Lhusu Mines. That's the moment he starts to suspect his brother of something, but he doesn't tell us what.
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Torn on if I wanna play X or IX on the Switch, after this.

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Well, my Eagles got a W. Now I can go back to playin' some FFXII...

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DeadBankerDream posted...

Neither Vaan or Penelo has any business being in the game. Like, I can overlook shit gameplay in an RPG but if what I can see could have been an excellent story is compromised and shitted on because we cant have the main character be someone who is older than 17, thats unforgiveable. And that's what FF12 does.

I can fix that real fast. Follow me if you will. The main reason Vaan is supposed to be on this journey is to get revenge for the death of his brother Reks which you find out literally at the beginning of the game. We can bring that to the forefront of the story by having the death of Reks played out in front of Vaan, through some form of public execution. We then replay that scenario every so often during the story in Vaans head as some form of flashback.

The order of character acquisition would be as follows: Vaan, Balthier, Ashe, Fran, Basch and then Penelo.

Fran joins after her village, Ashe is now the one who was in the prison instead of Basch, being locked up so she won't try and get revenge on Vayne, Basch is chained inside the lighthouse. By having Basch appear this late in the game, it gives a chance for Vaan to build up hatred for him. Vaan tries to kill Basch because he thinks that Basch killed Reks, only for Reddas to jump in the way thus sacrificing himself letting Vaan know that Basch had nothing to do with Reks' death. The boss then attacks and Vaan is saved by Basch who is freed by Ashe.

Penelo joins near the end of the game because she doesn't want to see Vaan go off on his own again. It's more story than she has gotten in the original release lol.

Pretty much everything else stays the same, except we get rid of that stupid Basch lives bit early on in the game.

The only other thing I would do is make Biggs and Wedge part of the Judges.


As for the 9/10 question, I prefer 9 myself, but the limit breaks are a bit underwhelming. 10 is a solid choice except for some of the bad voice acting at certain parts of the game. My suggestion if you can ever find a copy, is to play Shadow Hearts 1 for PS2. It came out at almost the exact same time as 10 did, but has a nice dark story in it.

I never miss.

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bought every Gambit in the game just because I can

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We all did that.

For that exact reason.
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I had to summon Belias to open the gate are you ****ing kidding me

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Oh god you're at THAT dungeon.

Have fun.
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Fuck the Great Crystal. I wish they included a proper map in the remaster.

I've burnt out on this game. I'm not entirely sure when it happened. I think it was at some point during the trek to Archades, maybe a little before the Phon Coast.

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You're not that far from the end of it if I recall correctly, though its very possible that I don't.
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My memory's shady but I seem to remember some lighthouse, or something resembling a lighthouse, dungeon toward the end that has very powerful enemies.

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DaveTheUseless posted...

My memory's shady but I seem to remember some lighthouse, or something resembling a lighthouse, dungeon toward the end that has very powerful enemies.

Yeah, the Pharos. It might even be longer than Giruvegan. Well, not if you get lost in the Great Crystal...

Oh, I thought Pharos was before Great Crystal. Pay me no heed.
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Yeah, the Pharos is pretty brutal. After a certain point in the game, everything basically boils down to a test of endurance: making it through the 100-floor tower, grinding for rare weapons and loot for rare weapons, fighting a superboss that has a million HP, fighting a super-duper boss that has 7 million HP, fighting a holy-shit-are-you-kidding ludicrous boss that has 50 million HP...
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I just bought FF9 off eShop yippie

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