Current Events > Jim Sterling mad at EA because kids fraudulently spent his weight on FIFA

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48908766

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHy7XueW6dc" data-time="
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Mr Carter, from Hampshire, admits that he did not take full precautions to limit access to his Nintendo account: he did not use a unique Pin number and the emailed receipts were sent to an old email address with a full inbox.

This is always the common thread in these stories. AFAIK, every major platform's online service has adequate parental controls on spending these days.
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"There isn't good evidence it is gambling, but the very fact we don't have hard data should be a concern."

LOL

Then what is it exactly? What criteria are they using for "good evidence?" Is it a large sign pointing at micro-transaction with lootboxes saying "This shit is gambling"?
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But what does Scott Sterling think?
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A+ topic title
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legendarylemur posted...

"There isn't good evidence it is gambling, but the very fact we don't have hard data should be a concern."

LOL

Then what is it exactly? What criteria are they using for "good evidence?" Is it a large sign pointing at micro-transaction with lootboxes saying "This shit is gambling"?

As usual with these hardline extremist types, the only data that is viable is the data that supports their argument.

I had to stop following sterling. I agree with many of his pro consumer stances, but he's just too fucking abrasive and off putting.

Plus he's an absolute loon politically..normally this isn't a problem, but he just injects his politics into his professional offerings constantly.

Fuck that. There are tons of other commentators I can listen to.
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Also it isn't gambling, because in gambling you actually have a chance of winning something with value. Mechanics like FUT are somehow worse than gambling because you're risking real money to obtain something with no value.
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Sonic Cannon posted...

Mr Carter, from Hampshire, admits that he did not take full precautions to limit access to his Nintendo account: he did not use a unique Pin number and the emailed receipts were sent to an old email address with a full inbox.

This is always the common thread in these stories. AFAIK, every major platform's online service has adequate parental controls on spending these days.

i think its kinda fucked up that it is now taken as read that parents need to "take precautions" to stop their small children from using a childrens game to spend their life savings.

my parents never would have even considered such a bizarre mindset when they were buying me toys when i was a kid.
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I hate loot boxes and all but the kids overspending thing is not something I can really blame on the games. I don't have kids but I have nephews and they've never pulled this shit. Why? Because I make sure they can't when they are playing my systems. Likewise, my siblings aren't idiots that give children access to their money so they don't do this at home either. Just don't be a fucking idiot and this isn't a problem.

Grischnak posted...

I hate loot boxes and all but the kids overspending thing is not something I can really blame on the games. I don't have kids but I have nephews and they've never pulled this shit. Why? Because I make sure they can't when they are playing my systems. Likewise, my siblings aren't idiots that give children access to their money so they don't do this at home either. Just don't be a fucking idiot and this isn't a problem.

You can blame them on the publishers because they design these systems to hook in people when they're young. Are you truly so naive that they aren't intentionally targeting those that don't know any better?

Blame can go everywhere is the main point.
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AlephZero posted...

Also it isn't gambling, because in gambling you actually have a chance of winning something with value. Mechanics like FUT are somehow worse than gambling because you're risking real money to obtain something with no value.

That doesn't sound right to me. Value as a term is rarely ever just referring to monetary value but a person's perception of goods providing them something over nothing in a positive manner. The kid obviously felt value over getting Messi and bet hard to get it and didn't.

How is that in any way not gambling? He was not guaranteed the thing he wanted, but he was also able to get it with less money
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Vyrulisse posted...

Grischnak posted...

I hate loot boxes and all but the kids overspending thing is not something I can really blame on the games. I don't have kids but I have nephews and they've never pulled this shit. Why? Because I make sure they can't when they are playing my systems. Likewise, my siblings aren't idiots that give children access to their money so they don't do this at home either. Just don't be a fucking idiot and this isn't a problem.

You can blame them on the publishers because they design these systems to hook in people when they're young. Are you truly so naive that they aren't intentionally targeting those that don't know any better?

Blame can go everywhere is the main point.

i think jim sterling has a valid point that maybe these games need the same warning tobacco and gambling products get.

that way their claims that parents are aware of the dangers are valid. as would be the users blaming the parents.
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Games with gambling-like mechanics should be rated AO or the regional equivalent tbh.

But everyone knows the industry won't self regulate so eventually something will be done through legislation.
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Vyrulisse posted...

Grischnak posted...

I hate loot boxes and all but the kids overspending thing is not something I can really blame on the games. I don't have kids but I have nephews and they've never pulled this shit. Why? Because I make sure they can't when they are playing my systems. Likewise, my siblings aren't idiots that give children access to their money so they don't do this at home either. Just don't be a fucking idiot and this isn't a problem.

You can blame them on the publishers because they design these systems to hook in people when they're young. Are you truly so naive that they aren't intentionally targeting those that don't know any better?

Blame can go everywhere is the main point.

Sorry but you're missing the point. This isn't about loot boxes, this is about being a responsible adult. Even if loot boxes didn't exist, kids would still do this shit to buy games on PSN or Steam or whatever. Hell, the same thing happens on Amazon every day(children purchasing stuff because their parents are idiots). Are you going to blame Amazon as well? Then again, why should I be surprised? Personal responsibility ain't exactly popular these days. It's so much easier to blame "the man" then to admit you made a mistake.

there was some sort of investigation thing recently (where "surprise mechanics" came out of) that also featured some epic games representatives being extremely unwilling to release any sort of player engagement / retention / playtime / etc metrics. Considering how much fuss there is over potential of addiction and predatory practices and etc, choosing to recieve ire from basically everyone over releasing the numbers suggests to me that they're a lot worse than anyone would have imagined
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kids all over the word steal money from their parents all the time

this is the first time i see people blaming it on the ones making the stuff they buy instead of the kids or the parents
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marc55 posted...

kids all over the word steal money from their parents all the time

this is the first time i see people blaming it on the ones making the stuff they buy instead of the kids or the parents

because people have literally never been able to do it unwittingly via childrens toys before....

that's why this is the first time you've seen it.
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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

marc55 posted...

kids all over the word steal money from their parents all the time

this is the first time i see people blaming it on the ones making the stuff they buy instead of the kids or the parents

because people have literally never been able to do it unwittingly via childrens toys before....

that's why this is the first time you've seen it.

So these "toys" just magically acquired the parents credit/debit card number? That how it works? The reality is, if someone gives a child access to something with their credit/debit card information in it with no safety measures in place they are a fucking idiot.

Grischnak posted...

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

marc55 posted...

kids all over the word steal money from their parents all the time

this is the first time i see people blaming it on the ones making the stuff they buy instead of the kids or the parents

because people have literally never been able to do it unwittingly via childrens toys before....

that's why this is the first time you've seen it.

So these "toys" just magically acquired the parents credit/debit card number? That how it works? The reality is, if someone gives a child access to something with their credit/debit card information in it with no safety measures in place they are a fucking idiot.

the safety measures are exactly what we are talking about and you are poo pooing. clear instructions to parents that this is gambling and there are no restrictions to stop kids from spending a fortune on it.

gamers like you and me take that cruelty for granted but joe q buying a game for their kid doesn't.

comparisons to kids stealing their parents credit cards or accessing their amazon account doesn't really hold water. those are not comparable enterprises. the kids in this story literally didn't even realize they were doing it.

hell the sheer fact people are pointing out how much of a "common thread" this is every time a kid does it just shows how unaware parents are about the risk. yet you're angry at the notion of warning/informing parents about it.

sure the guy didn't protect his childrens toys from access to bankrupting him, but its absurd that he has to do that in the first place. for me i'm more angry at the system than the dad and i find it odd that you're fighting furiously to pretend this is not a bad thing nor a new thing.

and for the record nintendo agrees. they fully refunded the family which they had no obligation to do while ea refused to the same.

in short i think childrens toys not having gambling is preferable to childrens toys having gambling and then we yell at unwarned parents who are swindled by it.
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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

the safety measures are exactly what we are talking about and you are poo pooing. clear instructions to parents that this is gambling and there are no restrictions to stop kids from spending a fortune on it.

gamers like you and me take that cruelty for granted but joe q buying a game for their kid doesn't.

comparisons to kids stealing their parents credit cards or accessing their amazon account doesn't really hold water. those are not comparable enterprises. the kids in this story literally didn't even realize they were doing it.

hell the sheer fact people are pointing out how much of a "common thread" this is every time a kid does it just shows how unaware parents are about the risk. yet you're angry at the notion of warning/informing parents about it.

sure the guy didn't protect his childrens toys from access to bankrupting him, but its absurd that he has to do that in the first place. for me i'm more angry at the system than the dad and i find it odd that you're fighting furiously to pretend this is not a bad thing nor a new thing.

and for the record nintendo agrees. they fully refunded the family which they had no obligation to do while ea refused to the same.

in short i think childrens toys not having gambling is preferable to childrens toys having gambling and then we yell at unwarned parents who are swindled by it.

You literally completely ignored my point to go on a "lootboxes are bad" rant. Yo dude. As I said earlier: I HATE LOOTBOXES. I am not defending lootboxes. You don't need to convince me of their evils. But I'm not going to shift the blame onto lootboxes in this situation when that isn't the core of issue. The core of issue in this situation is bad parenting.

Grischnak posted...

You literally completely ignored my point to go on a "lootboxes are bad" rant. Yo dude. As I said earlier: I HATE LOOTBOXES. I am not defending lootboxes. You don't need to convince me of their evils. But I'm not going to shift the blame onto lootboxes in this situation when that isn't the core of issue. The core of issue in this situation is bad parenting.

i'm not sure i agree

"my kids used their childrens toy to accidentially unknowingly bankrupt us because it was set up as a gamblers trap to take advantage of people." seems like as much of the fault as the childrens toy than the parents.

i'm not and never have pretended that the parent couldn't have prevented it, but i disagree with you that this means it's entirely his fault and the childrens toy developers are blameless.

so does nintendo by the by. there's a reason you ignored pretty much everything i said. including your claims that this is the same thing as stealing credit cards or using an amazon account, or your shock that people are acting like this is a new thing when this is a new thing.

there's no button a barbie or an option on a my little pony dvd menu that bankrupts you unless you go out of your way to block it. and if someone tried to insert one, they would likely end up arrested.
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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Grischnak posted...

You literally completely ignored my point to go on a "lootboxes are bad" rant. Yo dude. As I said earlier: I HATE LOOTBOXES. I am not defending lootboxes. You don't need to convince me of their evils. But I'm not going to shift the blame onto lootboxes in this situation when that isn't the core of issue. The core of issue in this situation is bad parenting.

i'm not sure i agree

"my kids used their childrens toy to accidentially unknowingly bankrupt us because it was set up as a gamblers trap to take advantage of people." seems like as much of the fault as the childrens toy than the parents.

i'm not and never have pretended that the parent couldn't have prevented it, but i disagree with you that this means it's entirely his fault and the childrens toy developers are blameless.

so does nintendo by the by. there's a reason you ignored pretty much everything i said. including your claims that this is the same thing as stealing credit cards or using an amazon account, or your shock that people are acting like this is a new thing when this is a new thing.

there's no button a barbie or an option on a my little pony dvd menu that bankrupts you unless you go out of your way to block it. and if someone tried to insert one, they would likely end up arrested.

I ignored everything you said because I agree with you that lootboxes are bad and that Nintendo should obviously refund the transaction. So why the fuck would I argue with you over things we agree on? There is zero reason for me to address points I agree with. The sticking point is that you seem to think that because lootboxes are bad and this situation involves lootboxes that we have to blame them for it. Sorry but that I can't agree with. The big issue with this situation isn't that these kids play games with lootboxes in them, it's that they stole money from there father. Jesus fucking Christ man. How is that hard to understand?

Ban lootboxes
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If the card isn't locked behind a password the kid can go on a spending spree anywhere in the store.
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USB-C posted...

holy shit @ the amount of shills itt

They're part of the "Personal Responsibility Above All" clique, so it's not surprising.
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Grischnak posted...

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Grischnak posted...

You literally completely ignored my point to go on a "lootboxes are bad" rant. Yo dude. As I said earlier: I HATE LOOTBOXES. I am not defending lootboxes. You don't need to convince me of their evils. But I'm not going to shift the blame onto lootboxes in this situation when that isn't the core of issue. The core of issue in this situation is bad parenting.

i'm not sure i agree

"my kids used their childrens toy to accidentially unknowingly bankrupt us because it was set up as a gamblers trap to take advantage of people." seems like as much of the fault as the childrens toy than the parents.

i'm not and never have pretended that the parent couldn't have prevented it, but i disagree with you that this means it's entirely his fault and the childrens toy developers are blameless.

so does nintendo by the by. there's a reason you ignored pretty much everything i said. including your claims that this is the same thing as stealing credit cards or using an amazon account, or your shock that people are acting like this is a new thing when this is a new thing.

there's no button a barbie or an option on a my little pony dvd menu that bankrupts you unless you go out of your way to block it. and if someone tried to insert one, they would likely end up arrested.

I ignored everything you said because I agree with you that lootboxes are bad and that Nintendo should obviously refund the transaction. So why the fuck would I argue with you over things we agree on? There is zero reason for me to address points I agree with. The sticking point is that you seem to think that because lootboxes are bad and this situation involves lootboxes that we have to blame them for it. Sorry but that I can't agree with. The big issue with this situation isn't that these kids play games with lootboxes in them, it's that they stole money from there father. Jesus fucking Christ man. How is that hard to understand?

He did mention in his post that the kid in the article weren't even aware what they were doing. Sure it maybe a case if they were purposely doing it, but I also too believe that it's also the fault of the game publishers/developers for implementing gambling in a childrens game to begin with as well.
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Loot boxes are literally a form of gambling aimed at children.
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I like Jim and agree with him 90% of the time and don't understand the hate he gets but he is wrong here .
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

Loot boxes are literally a form of gambling aimed at children.

This.

The company are scum for pushing it on kids and the parents are stupid for allowing their kids to play/buy.

There is no 100% blame on either side, but loot boxes shouldn't be in games that are rated "3+", they should only be in "16/18+" rated games (or equivalent to country's gambling law age).
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How about...Loot Boxes are in-game currency only, and any single-item drop can be bought for a specific dollar price. It removes monetary gambling and still nets a decent profit.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

How about...Loot Boxes are in-game currency only, and any single-item drop can be bought for a specific dollar price. It removes monetary gambling and still nets a decent profit.

Definitely shady, but a lot less scummy than pushing monetary gambling on kids.
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alt-right HERO Jim Sterling

Personal responsibility
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Dude Jim Sterling has like a career 98% success rate on the Right-O'-Da-Money meter and EA is blatantly sinister with their loot bo----oh wait SURPRISE MECHANICS schemes.
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USB-C posted...

their logic is terrible too

"it's not tobacco companies fault they make cancerous products, it's the parents who raise kids who want to smoke them!"

it's actually worse than that since tobacco companies are forced to tell parents how dangerous they sare
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Jagr_68 posted...

Dude Jim Sterling has like a career 98% success rate on the Right-O'-Da-Money meter and EA is blatantly sinister with their loot bo----oh wait SURPRISE MECHANICS schemes.

but for some reason nobody complains about surprise /blind toy bags which are pretty much the same and kids love those
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marc55 posted...

Jagr_68 posted...

Dude Jim Sterling has like a career 98% success rate on the Right-O'-Da-Money meter and EA is blatantly sinister with their loot bo----oh wait SURPRISE MECHANICS schemes.

but for some reason nobody complains about surprise /blind toy bags which are pretty much the same and kids love those

marc55 posted...

Jagr_68 posted...

Dude Jim Sterling has like a career 98% success rate on the Right-O'-Da-Money meter and EA is blatantly sinister with their loot bo----oh wait SURPRISE MECHANICS schemes.

but for some reason nobody complains about surprise /blind toy bags which are pretty much the same and kids love those

that's not comparable and jim sterling does complain about those.
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Digital purchasing is overall designed to be tricky and leading to accidental or unknown purchases. Some force you to have a credit card on account, such as with Google Family Library.

These things are definitely predatory. Even I've accidentally purchased something because it's so easy and often controls to turn them off are very deep in the settings or non-existent. Like the Vudu app on the TV just says $19.99 and you click on it and boom, you now own the movie and you have fight to entertain a refund. Similar shit with Amazon and the Fire Stick.
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marc55 posted...

but for some reason nobody complains about surprise /blind toy bags

Are you for real? Parents hate them.
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I can't stand his videos but he's 100% right about surprise mechanics

They're predatory fucking trash
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