Current Events > Female High school athletes file complaint over transgender policy

(+) Yeah! (+)

PleaseClap posted...

darkjedilink posted...

PleaseClap posted...

darkjedilink posted...

PleaseClap posted...

If I didn't know better, I would think that some of you guys really don't like trans people.

Am I incorrect somewhere?

Yeah

What part?

Well, trans women are women, so that part

Nope. They're trans women.

No matter how you look at it, a trans woman athlete is going to be at a huge advantage over a cis woman. The physical advantages of being biologically male don't simply disappear because they went on estrogen and removed their nuts.
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MuayThai85 posted...

Nope. They're trans women.

in other words, they are women.

No matter how you look at it, a trans woman athlete is going to be at a huge advantage over a cis woman.

that is not correct, as many links on the previous page (assuming 50 posts per page) will tell you

The physical advantages of being biologically male don't simply disappear because they went on estrogen and removed their nuts.

please elaborate on what you mean by "biologically male"
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Frolex posted...

StealthRock posted...

Ok i wish people would stop quoting this

I just read through all those and they dont say what you think it does...

Many of them say that the extent of the effects of CSHT are unknown and many cannot change the natural anatomic differences between males and females i.e. most transwomen still need breast/thorax augmention.

So then is the argument that breast and thorax augmentation are the key factor that separates trans women and cis women athletically? Not only did I post articles substantiating the fact that transwomen after transition are within the typical range for cis women in a number of physiological areas relevant to athletics, but I even linked articles directly comparing transwomen's performance in sports to ciswomen which demonstrate that any of those "unknown" factors have no sublimated into actual difference in measured performance.

Not to mention its unhealthy

Even if we were to totally ignore that fact that you have failed to actually prove this claim or even define what you mean by "unhealthy", it is a total sequitur to proving that trans women have a demonstrable and measured athletic advantage over cis women.

Did you fail to read the part about increased risk of cardiometabolic disease??? Did you not read your own articles? Hormone therapy is notorious for incresing the risk or heart disease, even in cases not related to transsexuals

And no, i didnt say that breast augmentation is the "key" factor. There are many. I was merely speaking to your claim that there is no difference between transsexuals and men and women. Which even the article says isnt the case.

And to me its funny how a community that claims to care so much about womens and gays rights and exposure would then turn around and tell women that transsexuals are just as woman as you are and should be aloud to perform with and outshine you in sports where you fight to supposedly get basic recognition

So much for equality.
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Title IX protects on the basis of sex, not gender, so these girls might have a pretty good case.
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StealthRock posted...

Did you fail to read the part about increased risk of cardiometabolic disease??? Did you not read your own articles? Hormone therapy is notorious for incresing the risk or heart disease, even in cases not related to transsexuals

And HRT still leads overall significantly positive health outcomes. A treatment having health risks that need to be monitored and managed does not make it "unhealthy" unless you're going to apply that same standard to almost literally every form of medical or psychological treatment ever given.

StealthRock posted...

And no, i didnt say that breast augmentation is the "key" factor. There are many. I was merely speaking to your claim that there is no difference between transsexuals and men and women. Which even the article says isnt the case.

And yet you failed to actually document any research that outlines which of these factors are both definitively static across the transition process and are demonstrably linked to an immutable athletic advantage.

StealthRock posted...

And to me its funny how a community that claims to care so much about womens and gays rights and exposure would then turn around and tell women that transsexuals are just as woman as you are and should be aloud to perform with and outshine you in sports where you fight to supposedly get basic recognition

So much for equality.

A lot of words wasted for a lame gotcha. Get some more brevity next time and just condense it down to you saying you think transwomen are men.
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ITT: Genotypes don't exist and biology is a myth

BLAKUboy posted...

Look at all this blatant transphobia the mods will never touch.

Land of the feels
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Frolex posted...

Get some more brevity next time and just condense it down to you saying you think transwomen are men.

Transwomen are sissy men who cut their penises off and take hormones to make themselves resemble women in order to trick society into thinking they're something they actually aren't. Then they abuse their fake identity to win sporting competitions against our sisters and daughters.

How does anyone respect this?
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Well I hope you've enjoyed your time with us.
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I mean at least he's being honest about it instead of making an extremely transparent attempt to fake concern about the health of transwomen.
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Every word I wrote was semantic and syntactic truth.
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Oh, gosh, I guess I was a little unfair.

See bolded section where I edit in as much sensitivity and fairness as this subject deserves.
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Trans athletes need to participate with people of the same sex that they were born as. This insanity has to stop.
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Not even a Warn, and the mods will still try to act like they're so unbiased and give totally Equal Punishments.
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PleaseClap posted...

If I didn't know better, I would think that some of you guys really don't like trans people.

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message deleted

Here you go people, my third deleted post about trans people.

1938 Karma, 3600 messages posted in 6 years, badges upon badges, almost no other moderations.

But apparently it's "offensive" to call a spade a spade in the current environment...
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I'm supposed to be impressed?
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Frolex posted...

StealthRock posted...

Did you fail to read the part about increased risk of cardiometabolic disease??? Did you not read your own articles? Hormone therapy is notorious for incresing the risk or heart disease, even in cases not related to transsexuals

And HRT still leads overall significantly positive health outcomes. A treatment having health risks that need to be monitored and managed does not make it "unhealthy" unless you're going to apply that same standard to almost literally every form of medical or psychological treatment ever given.

StealthRock posted...

And no, i didnt say that breast augmentation is the "key" factor. There are many. I was merely speaking to your claim that there is no difference between transsexuals and men and women. Which even the article says isnt the case.

And yet you failed to actually document any research that outlines which of these factors are both definitively static across the transition process and are demonstrably linked to an immutable athletic advantage.

StealthRock posted...

And to me its funny how a community that claims to care so much about womens and gays rights and exposure would then turn around and tell women that transsexuals are just as woman as you are and should be aloud to perform with and outshine you in sports where you fight to supposedly get basic recognition

So much for equality.

A lot of words wasted for a lame gotcha. Get some more brevity next time and just condense it down to you saying you think transwomen are men.

I do believe they are not women

Got a problem with that?? Im sure this will get modded though

And yea, mosy medical treatment is unhealthy and risky. Buy the differemce between that and this is that mosr medical treatment is for saving lives and thus the benefita outweigh the risks. Can you honestly say that flooding yout body with unnatural amounts of hormones to attempt to change sex is that same benefit as someone saving their life??
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I don't see why it would cost them scholarships or anything like that. If you can run a mile in five minutes, then your time is five minutes, regardless of if you're running against Usain Bolt or some old grandma with a broken hip. Five minutes is five minutes, whether you come in first, or third, or fifth, or last. It sounds like these girls are just butthurt they didn't win a trophy.
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There's an acronym for a person who concern trolls against transgender people by claiming they're for women.
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StealthRock posted...

And yea, mosy medical treatment is unhealthy and risky. Buy the differemce between that and this is that mosr medical treatment is for saving lives and thus the benefita outweigh the risks.

No, the vast majority of medical treatment that happens are not for conditions that are immediately life threatening. Although at least your classification of "most" medical treatment as "unhealthy and risky" probably helps explain your inability to engage with the research on this topic. Maybe I can send you some crystals or essential oils

StealthRock posted...

Can you honestly say that flooding yout body with unnatural amounts of hormones to attempt to change sex is that same benefit as someone saving their life??

Yes, HRT has demonstrably positive health outcomes in transwomen. Sorry if this hurts your fee-fees to hear.

StealthRock posted...

I do believe they are not women

Got a problem with that?? Im sure this will get modded though

Only problem I really have is your feigned concern for anything but attacking transwomen. If you can't argue without having to reframe your views this dishonestly, maybe that's a good sign you need to re-examine them.

CyricZ posted...

There's an acronym for a person who concern trolls against transgender people by claiming they're for women.

With how the mods have been handling this topic, it'd probably get you warned faster than anything posted so far.
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Frolex posted...

Dude, i work in healthcare first hand. I know how risky a lot of treatment is. Dont try to lecture me from your armchair

You try to throw slick jabs by mentioning essential oils, yet praise the effectiveness of hormone therapy in transwomen. Lol ok

And for real. Im not arguing from a place of concern for transwomen. I arguing from truth instead of feelings. Try it sometime
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StealthRock posted...

Dude, i work in healthcare first hand. I know how risky a lot of treatment is. Dont try to lecture me from your armchair

Does your understanding of the efficacy all healthcare end at "whether or not hearing about it hurts my feelings" or is this a special case?

You try to throw slick jabs by mentioning essential oils, yet praise the effectiveness of hormone therapy in transwomen. Lol ok

Almost as if the benefits of one of those things has actually been demonstrated clinically and you've backed yourself so far in to a corner you can now only defend your blatant false equivalence by saying "Lol ok".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182227/
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2011.581195
https://www.ippf.org/sites/default/files/ippf_imap_transgender.pdf

And for real. Im not arguing from a place of concern for transwomen. I arguing from truth instead of feelings. Try it sometime

Think I'll just stick with following empirical data and the concordance of research and expert opinion rather than deciding what I think the "truth" is based on my fee-fees and get mad when I can't substantiate my claims, thanks.
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Frolex posted...

StealthRock posted...

Dude, i work in healthcare first hand. I know how risky a lot of treatment is. Dont try to lecture me from your armchair

Does your understanding of the efficacy all healthcare end at "whether or not hearing about it hurts my feelings" or is this a special case?

You try to throw slick jabs by mentioning essential oils, yet praise the effectiveness of hormone therapy in transwomen. Lol ok

Almost as if the benefits of one of those things has actually been demonstrated clinically and you've backed yourself so far in to a corner you can now only defend your blatant false equivalence by saying "Lol ok".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182227/
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2011.581195
https://www.ippf.org/sites/default/files/ippf_imap_transgender.pdf

And for real. Im not arguing from a place of concern for transwomen. I arguing from truth instead of feelings. Try it sometime

Think I'll just stick with following empirical data and the concordance of research and expert opinion rather than deciding what I think the "truth" is based on my fee-fees and get mad when I can't substantiate my claims, thanks.

Big whoop. Making someone feel better is what a lot of things do. Is it important?? Yea, but that still isnt that same as saving lives. Stop acting like someone wanting to be something else and changing their bodies to be that thing is the same as life saving procedures or has the same implications.

It seems to me that all this "fee fee" talk is forcing you to chastise those who dont want play along and call a spade a spade. Sprry of me telling the truth hurts liberal "fee fees". I dont give a shit
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StealthRock posted...

Big whoop. Making someone feel better is what a lot of things do.

Lol, definitely something a person actually interested in healthcare would say. Still got those crystals ready go whenever you are btw

Is it important?? Yea, but that still isnt that same as saving lives. Stop acting like someone wanting to be something else and changing their bodies to be that thing is the same as life saving procedures or has the same implications.

It is and it does, and you would know that if you had read those sources

StealthRock posted...

It seems to me that all this "fee fee" talk is forcing you to chastise those who dont want play along and call a spade a spade. Sprry of me telling the truth hurts liberal "fee fees". I dont give a shit

I mean if you had actually cited any form of empirical evidence at any point in this conversation, I'd be inclined to believe you. "I t-t-totally could substantiate my claims with research, I just don't give a shit, please look at how cool I am". Spare me my dude, no one here is falling for it.
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Are doctors just prescribing HRT for the lulz or something
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Frolex posted...

StealthRock posted...

Big whoop. Making someone feel better is what a lot of things do.

Lol, definitely something a person actually interested in healthcare would say. Still got those crystals ready go whenever you are btw

Is it important?? Yea, but that still isnt that same as saving lives. Stop acting like someone wanting to be something else and changing their bodies to be that thing is the same as life saving procedures or has the same implications.

It is and it does, and you would know that if you had read those sources

StealthRock posted...

It seems to me that all this "fee fee" talk is forcing you to chastise those who dont want play along and call a spade a spade. Sprry of me telling the truth hurts liberal "fee fees". I dont give a shit

I mean if you had actually cited any form of empirical evidence at any point in this conversation, I'd be inclined to believe you. "I t-t-totally could substantiate my claims with research, I just don't give a shit, please look at how cool I am". Spare me my dude, no one here is falling for it.

Yep. I dont personally care enough to impress some internet yahoo with my ability to cherrypick studies and act like they are the end all be all.

Give me some of those magic crystals you have, Doctor.
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StealthRock posted...

Yep. I dont personally care enough to impress some internet yahoo with my ability to cherrypick studies and act like they are the end all be all.

Give me some of those magic crystals you have, Doctor.

Just FYI: The crystals thing was the sarcastic part of that post, I was serious about the "please spare me passing off your lack of substantive arguments as cool indifference" part.
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Frolex posted...

StealthRock posted...

Yep. I dont personally care enough to impress some internet yahoo with my ability to cherrypick studies and act like they are the end all be all.

Give me some of those magic crystals you have, Doctor.

Just FYI: The crystals thing was the sarcastic part of that post, I was serious about the "please spare me passing off your lack of substantive arguments as cool indifference" part.

Thats all you man. Im not trying to pass off anything

I simply stated my piece, which is true no matter how many times i get modded for saying it. A spade with a bent edge and handle extension is not indistinguishable from a hoe.

FYI, ive read everything youve posted. At no point does it say that they are indisingishable and most dont even make clean transitions with the additional interventions to CSHT. Not to mention a lifetimenof maintence to stay transitioned

But yep, totally no difference though.

Its like saying someone whos BP is managed with medications is indistiguishably as healthy as someone who works out and eats right.
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StealthRock posted...

Thats all you man. Im not trying to pass off anything

I simply stated my piece, which is true no matter how many times i get modded for saying it. A spade with a bent edge and handle extension is not indistinguishable from a hoe.

"lol it's true because i think it is don't need evidence lol. not arguing from feelings btw :^)"

StealthRock posted...

FYI, ive read everything youve posted. At no point does it say that they are indisingishable and most dont even make clean transitions with the additional interventions to CSHT. Not to mention a lifetimenof maintence to stay transitioned

But yep, totally no difference though.

The argument is not that transpeople and cis people are wholly indistignuishable. If you want to claim that there is a demonstrable and measured advantage that has been proven to exist among trans athletes that necessitates their exclusion from athletics, that is a claim that requires proof. Proof you are incapable providing.
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Oh look, more transphobia.
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Frolex posted...

StealthRock posted...

Thats all you man. Im not trying to pass off anything

I simply stated my piece, which is true no matter how many times i get modded for saying it. A spade with a bent edge and handle extension is not indistinguishable from a hoe.

"lol it's true because i think it is don't need evidence lol. not arguing from feelings btw :^)"

StealthRock posted...

FYI, ive read everything youve posted. At no point does it say that they are indisingishable and most dont even make clean transitions with the additional interventions to CSHT. Not to mention a lifetimenof maintence to stay transitioned

But yep, totally no difference though.

The argument is not that transpeople and cis people are wholly indistignuishable. If you want to claim that there is a demonstrable and measured advantage that has been proven to exist among trans athletes that necessitates their exclusion from athletics, that is a claim that requires proof. Proof you are incapable providing.

No no no, that BS quote that you post in every trans topic does indeed state that there is no difference in body composition or anatomy between trans and men and women

Dont try to backpedal now.
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ZMythos posted...

Oh look, more transphobia.

Oh man..lets cry together

Anything but pandering is phobia nowadays

How nauseating
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StealthRock posted...

No no no, that BS quote that you post in every trans topic does indeed state that there is no difference in body composition or anatomy between trans and men and women

Dont try to backpedal now.

lel, I've posted it exactly twice. I don't know if I should trust someone who can't count to characterize my words for me
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PizzaPatty posted...

So basically what I am seeing here is some women are complaining that they are being out competed by other women?

No.

Some of the biologically female athletes do not want to compete against trans female athletes. There is a difference between the two. Stop being disingenuous about this issue.
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Frolex posted...

StealthRock posted...

No no no, that BS quote that you post in every trans topic does indeed state that there is no difference in body composition or anatomy between trans and men and women

Dont try to backpedal now.

lel, I've posted it exactly twice. I don't know if I should trust someone who can't count to characterize my words for me

Ohhhh twice, excuse me for my miscalculation
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Hey guys shut up now pls
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StealthRock posted...

Ohhhh twice, excuse me for my miscalculation

you're excused :)
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this Vox video focuses mostly on Caster Semenya, but it's highly relevant to this topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCftTLUzCI" data-time="
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averagejoel posted...

this Vox video focuses mostly on Caster Semenya, but it's highly relevant to this topic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiCftTLUzCI" data-time="

Literal vox
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Wasn't there some study that shows that women aren't that outclassed by men? At least for a lot of sports? Just availability of training and resources was a huge issue.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Wasn't there some study that shows that women aren't that outclassed by men? At least for a lot of sports? Just availability of training and resources was a huge issue.

Look at a WNBA game and then an NBA game and tell me women are not outclassed by men by a huge fucking margin.
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chrono625 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wasn't there some study that shows that women aren't that outclassed by men? At least for a lot of sports? Just availability of training and resources was a huge issue.

Look at a WNBA game and then an NBA game and tell me women are not outclassed by men by a huge fucking margin.

I honestly don't give a shit about sports, and was just mentioning some study that was done.
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chrono625 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wasn't there some study that shows that women aren't that outclassed by men? At least for a lot of sports? Just availability of training and resources was a huge issue.

Look at a WNBA game and then an NBA game and tell me women are not outclassed by men by a huge fucking margin.

most sports as we know them were created by men, for men, in male-centric societies.

do you think that might have had an effect on the way they are played?
do you think that might give an advantage to certain people over other people?
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averagejoel posted...

chrono625 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wasn't there some study that shows that women aren't that outclassed by men? At least for a lot of sports? Just availability of training and resources was a huge issue.

Look at a WNBA game and then an NBA game and tell me women are not outclassed by men by a huge fucking margin.

most sports as we know them were created by men, for men, in male-centric societies.

do you think that might have had an effect on the way they are played?
do you think that might give an advantage to certain people over other people?

looooooooooooooool
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fhqwhgads posted...

averagejoel posted...

chrono625 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

Wasn't there some study that shows that women aren't that outclassed by men? At least for a lot of sports? Just availability of training and resources was a huge issue.

Look at a WNBA game and then an NBA game and tell me women are not outclassed by men by a huge fucking margin.

most sports as we know them were created by men, for men, in male-centric societies.

do you think that might have had an effect on the way they are played?
do you think that might give an advantage to certain people over other people?

looooooooooooooool

sports are not an unbiased assessment of peoples' physical capability
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Cheerleading

Rhythmic Gymnastics

Synchronized Swimming
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Lightwarrior11 posted...

Cheerleading

Rhythmic Gymnastics

Synchronized Swimming

It's funny that you mentioned cheerleading since men are pretty important to cheerleading in the national and competitive scene.

And the other two most people wouldn't even know existed unless they watched the olympics.
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darkjedilink posted...

Pukelid posted...

They should have been better athletes. What about all the cis girls who aren't losing to trans girls?

Show me sporting events where trans girls lost to cis girls.

Fallon fox says hi
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LightHawKnight posted...

Wasn't there some study that shows that women aren't that outclassed by men? At least for a lot of sports? Just availability of training and resources was a huge issue.

Forget his name but a totally mediocre male tennis player utterly dominated one Williams sister in a match after he spent the morning drinking and smoking cigars.
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