Current Events > A Song of Ice and Fire - your favorite theories?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is a spiritual sequel to @au_gold s topic about badass quotes and things from the books.

I will start posting some of my own but let me just say for now that reading more into the lore of Planetos (the world of Westeros), and even George RRs previous works, has made me appreciate the last 2 books sooooo much more than I used to.

Im also glad that people much smarter than me have delved into this stuff. This series is far more dense and deep than I used to believe.

FULL SPOILERS for the book series, A Song of Ice and Fire, follow

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For the novel series:

Aegon Targaryan VI is not actually Rhaegar's son but a Blackfyre pretender

Euron had possession of a dragon egg and gave it to the Faceless Men as payment for assassinating his brother Balon. This is why a Jaqen appears to be infiltrating the Citadel for information on dragons.

The Three Eyed Crow and Bloodraven are not the same individual

Jon is a Targ and his birth name was Jaehaerys

For the world in general:

The Children of the Forest live in Essos. There's mentions of "small imp creatures" living in the forests of Iqpudbcoiwdjbcasldknc (I don't remember how to spell the place lol) in Northern Essos

Dragons come from outer space. One folklore tale in-universe states that there were once two moons in the night sky but one of them cracked like an egg and dragons came flying out.

The Five Forts in the far east of Essos protect against the Others. The Grey Waste beyond the forts connect to the Land of Always Winter

The Sothoryosi are orcs. They're described as having "hog-like skin" snouts, black hair, and muscular builds.
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This includes SPOILERS from the sample chapters of Winds of Winter, the unreleased 6th book:

Euron is luring the two major fleets loyal to Cersei that were sent to attack his own ships, so he can use crazy demon blood magic to call Krakens up from the deep of the ocean to destroy those fleets.

Doom_Art posted...

The Three Eyed Crow and Bloodraven are not the same individual

Ooh, can you expand? Or do you mean hes been absorbed into a collective consciousness?
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Shablagoo posted...

Ooh, can you expand? Or do you mean hes been absorbed into a collective consciousness?

The individual or entity we would identify as the Three Eyed Crow is separate entirely from Bloodraven. If the Three Eyed Crow exists in a location I don't know where it would be.

When Bran first encounters Bloodraven he asks him if he's the Three Eyed Crow, Bloodraven seems to not understand what Bran is talking about.

I can't really speculate as to what the Three Eyed Crow is, but I don't believe it's Bloodraven
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Theres an actual link I cant remember but Stannis battle thats upcoming hes actually set himself up to win with a great strategy despite whats being led to believe
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Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens.
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I read a theory about how Varys is a serial killer who targets kids, which was pretty interesting.

it's pretty irrelevant to the overall story, as messed up as that sounds, but it adds a lot to his character.
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oh yea, and Tyrion being the Mad King's son
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I like the whole, it's a post apocalyptic sci fi story, and not fantasy theory from Preston Jacobs
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darkprince45 posted...

Theres an actual link I cant remember but Stannis battle thats upcoming hes actually set himself up to win with a great strategy despite whats being led to believe

Yup, he might be luring them on to a massive sheet of ice that is over a huge lake, with the intent to launch catapults and break the ice. Also, a couple of defecting houses are in the Bolton army, potentially, that will help Stannis when the trap is sprung.
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emblem boy posted...

I like the whole, it's a post apocalyptic sci fi story, and not fantasy theory from Preston Jacobs

Me too!
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Shablagoo posted...

darkprince45 posted...

Theres an actual link I cant remember but Stannis battle thats upcoming hes actually set himself up to win with a great strategy despite whats being led to believe

Yup, he might be luring them on to a massive sheet of ice that is over a huge lake, with the intent to launch catapults and break the ice. Also, a couple of defecting houses are in the Bolton army, potentially, that will help Stannis when the trap is sprung.

I remember reading about the "North Remembers" theory which I hope pans out

https://winteriscoming.net/2016/05/09/game-of-thrones-theorycrafting-the-grand-northern-conspiracy/
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I think I'm still in my "what's the point?" phase after the show killed so many good theories
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Azor Ahai isnt so much a person as a condition held by different people at different times. It is passed along between people. In the books, it is Beric Dondarrion, who passes it to stone heart, who will eventually pass it to Jon Snow.

Mance sent the catspaw
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DuranOfForcena posted...

boxington posted...

oh yea, and Tyrion being the Mad King's son

this is the most ridiculous theory out there imo. if it is true, it undercuts the entire character dynamic between Tyion and Tywin and everything it has impacted or influenced for both of those characters, which is a ton.

"I believe I am you writ small".
"...Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year."
those, and many other things about those characters, would be utterly meaningless if this theory turned out to be true.

pls let me believe
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@Freddie_Mercury posted...

Mance sent the catspaw

This is very interesting. To what end?
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Tywin was the mastermind behind the Duskendale Defiance
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Doom_Art posted...

@Freddie_Mercury posted...

Mance sent the catspaw

This is very interesting. To what end?

Either to disrupt the Seven Kingdoms making passing the Wall easier or some secret involving House Stark

"We found where he'd been sleeping," Robb put in. "He had ninety silver stags in a leather bag buried beneath the straw."

"The Wall can stop an army, but not a man alone. I took a lute and a bag of silver, scaled the ice near Long Barrow, walked a few leagues south of the New Gift, and bought a horse. All in all I made much better time than Robert, who was traveling with a ponderous great wheelhouse to keep his queen in comfort. A day south of Winterfell I came up on him and fell in with his company. Freeriders and hedge knights are always attaching themselves to royal processions, in hopes of finding service with the king, and my lute gained me easy acceptance."

Mance tells Jon in ASOS he was at Winterfell during Robert's visit and that he scaled the wall with a bag of silver. The catspaw's belongings are later found containing a bag of silver. Tyrion theorizes in ASOS that the catspaw joined the Robert's convoy the same way Mance claims he did.

A grey girl on a dying horse, fleeing from her marriage. On the strength of those words he had loosed Mance Rayder and six spearwives on the north.

Later in ADWD Jon sends Mance to rescue the "Arya" Melisandre saw in her visions riding on a horse towards the Wall.This ends up being Alys Karstark who arrived without Mance.

A grey girl on a dying horse. Melisandre's fires had not lied, it would seem. But what had become of Mance Rayder and his spearwives?

The next time we see Mance he's in Winterfell with his spearwives killing people to cause chaos for the Boltons and plotting with Theon to escape with "Arya". His alias Abel is an anagram of Bael the bard, the wilding bard legend that snuck into Winterfell, impregnated a Stark daughter, becomes King Beyond The Wall, and dies by his own son's hand who ends up continuing House Stark's line.

"Mance Rayder and his spearwives had not returned, and Jon could not help but wonder whether the red woman had lied of a purpose. Is she playing her own game?"

"He frowned. "And what of Mance? Is he lost as well? What do your fires show?"
"The same, I fear. Only snow."

Mance is plotting something involving the North/WInterfell/"Arya". It seems like too much of a coincidence that he just happened to be in Winterfell both times when mysterious attacks were occuring.

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1047

GRRM said in an old blog post that he thinks the mystery could be solved in the first two books which kinda kills this theory but he admits he could be wrong. Even if it's not true it's at least more interesting than Joffrey doing it to impress Robert.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

boxington posted...

oh yea, and Tyrion being the Mad King's son

this is the most ridiculous theory out there imo. if it is true, it undercuts the entire character dynamic between Tyion and Tywin and everything it has impacted or influenced for both of those characters, which is a ton.

"I believe I am you writ small".
"...Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year."
those, and many other things about those characters, would be utterly meaningless if this theory turned out to be true.

I agree, it's a stupid fucking theory

if any of Tywin's children were actually Aerys's, it should be Cersei and Jaime, and I don't even want that
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DuranOfForcena posted...

BlueBoy675 posted...

Tywin was the mastermind behind the Duskendale Defiance

ooh that'd be juicy, i've never heard this proposed before

The idea is that Tywin plotted behind the scenes with Lord Darklyn, possibly indirectly so Darklyn wouldnt know if his involvement, to lure Aerys into a trap.

Aerys had a known history of doing the opposite of what Tywin counciled him, so when Aerys was invited to Duskendale, Tywin urged him not to go, meaning that Aerys did go. Tywin also advised him to take an army. Aerys instead took a small group with a single Kingsguard.

It was Tywins final offer to Darklyn that led me to believe he was in on it. Tywin gave Darklyn one last chance to surrender and promised him that if he refused every man, woman, and child in Duskendale would be put to the sword. The council advised Tywin against this, stating that such an act would provoke Darklyn into executing Aerys. Tywin responded by pointing to Rhaegar and saying they already had a much better king who could replace him.

I think its plausible that Tywin orchestrated this as a means of killing Aerys while keeping himself cleared of any suspicion. Of course its also possible that he merely saw the rebellion as an opportunity and wasnt actually the one behind it.

I still think its a fun theory.
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one that was brought to my attention recently was Arthur Dayne is Qhorin Halfhand

Shablagoo posted...

This is a spiritual sequel to @au_gold s topic about badass quotes and things from the books.

I will start posting some of my own but let me just say for now that reading more into the lore of Planetos (the world of Westeros), and even George RRs previous works, has made me appreciate the last 2 books sooooo much more than I used to.

Im also glad that people much smarter than me have delved into this stuff. This series is far more dense and deep than I used to believe.

FULL SPOILERS for the book series, A Song of Ice and Fire, follow

***

Well yeah, this is the main reason he is never gonna be able to finish it.
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rodu_jr posted...

one that was brought to my attention recently was Arthur Dayne is Qhorin Halfhand

Ive seen one theory that said Arthur Dayne is Mance Rayder. I didnt buy it.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

boxington posted...

oh yea, and Tyrion being the Mad King's son

this is the most ridiculous theory out there imo. if it is true, it undercuts the entire character dynamic between Tyion and Tywin and everything it has impacted or influenced for both of those characters, which is a ton.

"I believe I am you writ small".
"...Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year."
those, and many other things about those characters, would be utterly meaningless if this theory turned out to be true.

The most ridiculous theory is the time-traveling fetus theory, aka Tyrion is The Stallion Who Mounts The World.
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wasn't there one where Syrio Forel is really Jaqen?
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boxington posted...

wasn't there one where Syrio Forel is really Jaqen?

People love that one, but I think it's dumb. There's zero indication that Syrio is anything but what he claims to be.
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pegusus123456 posted...

boxington posted...

wasn't there one where Syrio Forel is really Jaqen?

People love that one, but I think it's dumb. There's zero indication that Syrio is anything but what he claims to be.

idk if necessarily Jaqen, but somehow connected to the Faceless Men?

I haven't read the first few books since the late 90s/early 00s, so I can't remember if it was something obvious
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boxington posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

boxington posted...

wasn't there one where Syrio Forel is really Jaqen?

People love that one, but I think it's dumb. There's zero indication that Syrio is anything but what he claims to be.

idk if necessarily Jaqen, but somehow connected to the Faceless Men?

I haven't read the first few books since the late 90s/early 00s, so I can't remember if it was something obvious

I don't think there's anything indicating it at all. People just like Syrio and want him to have survived.
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Roose Bolt-On
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DoomsSD posted...

Jojen paste.

I fucking love this theory since it feeds into my belief that Bloodraven and the Children are insidious and creepy as shit
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bump
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DuranOfForcena posted...

Shablagoo posted...

emblem boy posted...

I like the whole, it's a post apocalyptic sci fi story, and not fantasy theory from Preston Jacobs

Me too!

as long as we're on the subject of Preston Jacobs, i think he really has something with all the whole Dornish Master Plan, the Genetics of Dragons and War, the Minds of Wolves and Robins, and all of the Night's Watch stuff, but in every one of them i feel there are things that he probably has spot on and things that just go completely off the rails.

Oh yeah, totally. And he speaks with a lot of confidence/authority, but you gotta give him credit for acknowledging hes probably wrong about half of this at the end of his videos.

Ive been listening to some of GRRs older works on audiotape because he got me interested in them.
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@Freddie_Mercury
Whoa, nice

@BlueBoy675
Wow thats great, havent heard that one before

@DuranOfForcena
Definitely havent heard this one before (though it sounds Preston-y lol), very interesting
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Tag for when Im at my PC and can type
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I like this interpretation - The Ibbenese people are the ASoIaF equivalent of dwarves

from WoIaF:

The Ibbenese are considered by maesters to be different from the other races of mankind. They are a heavy, broad-shouldered, and broad-chested people. The Ibbenese are short in stature, seldom reaching a height more than five and a half feet. Their arms are long, while their legs are short and thick. They have sloping brows with heavy ridges, small sunken eyes, great square teeth, and massive jaws.

The Ibbenese have the most body hair of all known peoples in the known world. Beneath their pale skins run dark blue veins, but covering their skin is dark and wiry hair. Ibbenese men have dark, wiry hair covering their arms, legs, chests, and backs, while Ibbenese women commonly have coarse dark hair, even on the upper lip.

There's also a blurb later on about how the Ibbenese who live inland don't build houses out of wood but instead dig into rock or carve out spaces in caves
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I think with the show ending its time to acknowledge that all these theories are basically wrong and thats how the books road end.. just with different paths and different side characters
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DuranOfForcena posted...

have you even read what people are posting? most of the theories being discussed either don't have anything to do with the ending, or would not be invalidated at all if the broad strokes of the show ending turn out to be the same as the broad strokes of the book ending.

darkprince's favorite parts of the books are the parts where Lady and Grey Wind die

Anyway I'd question how similar the book ending will be to the shows. I reckon maybe two or three things, but the way there will likely be radically different and all the side stuff will be different as well
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DuranOfForcena posted...

darkprince45 posted...

I think with the show ending its time to acknowledge that all these theories are basically wrong and thats how the books road end.. just with different paths and different side characters

have you even read what people are posting? most of the theories being discussed either don't have anything to do with the ending, or would not be invalidated at all if the broad strokes of the book ending turn out to be the same as the broad strokes of the show ending.

Well thats why I said ARE BASICALLY WRONG
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I guess two things we do know for sure after the end of the show are that Bran becomes king and R+L=J
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

I guess two things we do know for sure after the end of the show are that Bran becomes king and R+L=J

I don't know that we can even say for sure the second part will happen in the book

I mean sure it's been accepted among fans since before the show started but given that Jon and Aegon were basically merged for the show it's possible that they just used the fan theory because of that
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