Poll of the Day > Principal tells 15 y/o Trans Boy to PEE in FRONT of him to PROVE he was a BOY!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

West Virginia Principal Lee Livengood is accused of telling a 15 y/o trans student that he "FREAKS HIM OUT" and then tells him to PEE in FRONT of him to prove he was a boy!!

15 y/o Michael Critchfield said he repeatedly yelled "Why are you in here? You shouldn't be in here. Prove to me you're a boy and pee right now"

It happened at Liberty High School and Michael is left traumatized over the incident

The teacher barged into the boys' bathroom and asked if any students were in the stall and Michael confirmed it was and when he left, Lee was standing right in front of the stall and BLOCKED him from leaving and barricaded him in there demanding to know why he was in there.

When he said it was his legal right, that's when Lee flipped his lid and used improper pronouns and challenged him to use the urinal to prove he was a boy.

Michael said "I felt really degraded and discriminated against"

Students heard screaming in the bathroom and told a teacher that they saw the student and teacher walking out.

Lee then told him "Not going to lie, you freak me out"

Michael says "Kids like me should never have to go through anything like this. At the end of the day all i wanted was to feel welcome"

His mom, Caroline said "As a parent, that is my child that you are talking to. His job was to provide safety to protect my son while he was in school. Not bully. Not badger. Not to humilate. Not to tear someone down. Not cause phobia. Not cause discrimination against him. What is this teaching our students"

Michael was part of the marching band and was prepared to take a bus trip to Morgantown when this happened as the ACLU has said Lee should be disciplined and asked the county schools to take actiona against him.

Superintendent Mark Manchin said that it should have been handled better and that it was a "relatively new issue" on this but that the principal has strong feelings against trans people..

Do you think this principal should be fired?

Lee - Principal Snout

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/18/15/7573052-6507873-Assistant_principal_at_Liberty_High_School_Lee_Livengood_is_accu-m-21_1545146513422.jpg

Michael - trans student

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/18/22/7589430-6507873-Sophomore_student_Michael_Critchfield_said_Liberty_High_School_t-a-96_1545170676962.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/18/22/7589434-6507873-image-a-97_1545170688268.jpg

Bad School -

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/18/15/7573054-6507873-image-a-22_1545146666224.jpg
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Forcing a student to pee in front of him sounds like sexual assault. Shouldn't be too hard to make criminal charges stick, let alone get him fired.

haha why does every tranny boygirl look like that? it's like they pick their look from a template meant for a 12 year old modeling for a monster energy add

Full Throttle posted...

Should this principal be fired?

For asking to see a students penis? Yes. Doesn't matter if they have one or not.
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Not only should they be fired, they should be arrested as well.

Even if that particular school has anti-trans policy, this is sexual aggression.
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"Improper" pronouns.

Full Throttle posted...

What is this teaching our students

What is society teaching them?
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wwinterj25 posted...

For asking to see a students penis? Yes. Doesn't matter if they have one or not.

How can you ask somebody that doesn't have a penis to show it to you?
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Revelation34 posted...

wwinterj25 posted...

For asking to see a students penis? Yes. Doesn't matter if they have one or not.

How can you ask somebody that doesn't have a penis to show it to you?

-.-

He was asking to see their genitalia to see what they had.

Any adult who demands that a 15 year old child pee in front of them for ANY reason needs to be fired and arrested.
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This is a completely unacceptable way to treat a student regardless of their gender identity, but is an especially egregious invasion of privacy on a person who is likely even more body conscious than your average 15 year old.
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Kungfu Kenobi posted...

This is a completely unacceptable way to treat a student regardless of their gender identity, but is an especially egregious invasion of privacy on a person who is likely even more body conscious than your average 15 year old.

It's just as egregious, how somebody reacts doesn't change the severity of the action.
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_AdjI_ posted...

Forcing a student to pee in front of him sounds like sexual assault. Shouldn't be too hard to make criminal charges stick, let alone get him fired.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Not only should they be fired, they should be arrested as well.

Whargarble posted...

Any adult who demands that a 15 year old child pee in front of them for ANY reason needs to be fired and arrested.

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what the fuck
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Nade Duck posted...

what the fuck

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he didnt ask to see his junk. he asked to see him use the urinal. like when you go to the bathroom and can tell people are using it without seeing anything.

still, kind of weird / not appropriate

Istillhateyou posted...

haha why does every tranny boygirl look like that? it's like they pick their look from a template meant for a 12 year old modeling for a monster energy add

It's almost as if being trans is caused by a hormonal imbalance or something.
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Fam_Fam posted...

he didnt ask to see his junk. he asked to see him use the urinal. like when you go to the bathroom and can tell people are using it without seeing anything.

still, kind of weird / not appropriate

An adult in a school setting should never...EVER...demand a child use the bathroom while they are in the room. Theres not a single circumstance in which thats acceptable.
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Punished yes but not fired. She belongs in the girls bathroom.
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Kylo_Ren_ posted...

Punished yes but not fired. She belongs in the girls bathroom.

Why? And you cant say because shes a girl. Give me the real concrete reason this presents an actual issue where another child is endangered.
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Kylo_Ren_ posted...

Punished yes but not fired. She belongs in the girls bathroom.

He literally asked to see a minor go to the toilet in front of him, he should be in prison.
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Darth_CiD posted...

Istillhateyou posted...

haha why does every ****** boygirl look like that? it's like they pick their look from a template meant for a 12 year old modeling for a monster energy add

It's almost as if being trans is caused by a hormonal imbalance or something.

Liking extreme sports doesn't make you male.

kangolcone posted...

Kylo_Ren_ posted...

Punished yes but not fired. She belongs in the girls bathroom.

Why? And you cant say because shes a girl. Give me the real concrete reason this presents an actual issue where another child is endangered.

Children are cruel, avoidance of his man-vagina being penetrated.
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Theres no evidence that transgendered bathroom use leads to higher instances of rape.
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kangolcone posted...

Theres no evidence that transgendered bathroom use leads to higher instances of rape.

I doubt the sample size is high enough to make an accurate comparison.
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Is 600,000 a large enough sample size?

Media Matters found that 17 school districts around the country with protections for trans people, which collectively cover more than 600,000 students, had no problems with harassment in bathrooms or locker rooms after implementing their policies.
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kangolcone posted...

Is 600,000 a large enough sample size?

Media Matters found that 17 school districts around the country with protections for trans people, which collectively cover more than 600,000 students, had no problems with harassment in bathrooms or locker rooms after implementing their policies.

Of which, how many had any trans students, and how many used a different toilet? Harassment does occur in bathrooms, so them claiming they had no trouble after the policies implies they had no record of trouble to begin with? Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, son.
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1) You realize the trans community is very small right? Like Im not sure how you expect to document large numbers on Trans students using other bathrooms when there arent large numbers of trans students to begin with.

2) It in no way implies that. It explicitly states that there is no increase in sexual violence after the implementation of those policies.

3) So absence of evidence isnt evidence, yet you claim WITHOUT any evidence that there will be an increase in sexual violence if there are policies which protect the rights of people who are Transgender.
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kangolcone posted...

1) You realize the trans community is very small right? Like Im not sure how you expect to document large numbers on Trans students using other bathrooms when there arent large numbers of trans students to begin with.

I think he knows. I believe thats why he said the sample size probably wasnt high enough. I think...
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kangolcone posted...

You realize the trans community is very small right? Like Im not sure how you expect to document large numbers on Trans students using other bathrooms when there arent large numbers of trans students to begin with.

That's the point? You can't claim it's safe just because the evidence is poor.

kangolcone posted...

It in no way implies that. It explicitly states that there is no increase in sexual violence after the implementation of those policies.

A zero is suspect, considering how the rest of the students should create background noise, which they're denying.

kangolcone posted...

So absence of evidence isnt evidence, yet you claim WITHOUT any evidence that there will be an increase in sexual violence if there are policies which protect the rights of people who are Transgender.

It's expressing a concern, a prediction, something that's the basis for beginning basically all testing. You returning inconclusive data does nothing to dull the concern.

In circumstances of limited data, err on the side of stasis, in this incidence people have made the change without sufficient data, and afterward failed to gather evidence again. I don't particularly care one way or the other as it doesn't effect me, but I really dislike mindless pandering trying not to hurt fee-fees.
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LinkPizza posted...

kangolcone posted...

1) You realize the trans community is very small right? Like Im not sure how you expect to document large numbers on Trans students using other bathrooms when there arent large numbers of trans students to begin with.

I think he knows. I believe thats why he said the sample size probably wasnt high enough. I think...

So then hes asking for unattainable data. School districts dont document a student as Transgender. Some school districts have been able to add a third non-gendered category but that is still rare.

Moreover, documenting student bathroom choice isnt something that would happen unless there is an incident. Therefore lack of reports is significant.
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You are the one who claimed the kid is going to get raped in spite of zero evidence that this is a problem, so lets not get into how that view point is pandering to intellectually lazy conservatives afraid of people who are different.
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kangolcone posted...

So then hes asking for unattainable data. School districts dont document a student as Transgender. Some school districts have been able to add a third non-gendered category but that is still rare.

If you fail to collect data, where's the reasoning for pandering to an officially non-existant group?

kangolcone posted...

Moreover, documenting student bathroom choice isnt something that would happen unless there is an incident. Therefore lack of reports is significant.

Change that up if you want to provide evidence for your maneuvers. But you don't, because it's motivated by tugged heartstrings reading tumblr posts.
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How is allowing this student to use the bathroom they choose without being forced to relieve themselves in front of an adult pandering anyway?
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Weirdly enough because the stigma around trans people (often times because people like you float vague ideas with no basis) the number is hard to ascertain.

Studies estimate the transgender community is anywhere from half a percent to around 5 percent.

Thats not non-exisitant.
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kangolcone posted...

You are the one who claimed the kid is going to get raped in spite of zero evidence that this is a problem, so lets not get into how that view point is pandering to intellectually lazy conservatives afraid of people who are different.

Sexual assault occurs in bathrooms, this is documented. this child has difficulty regarding its sexual framework, this is documented. Bullies target oddities, this is also documented.

Do tell me why you believe this evidence does not suggest that an outlier in the sexual arena would not be bullied more in an environment with heightened sexual deviancy?
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What maneuvers exactly? Allowing a person who presents as a boy to use the boys bathroom without being forced to use it with an adult present?
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

kangolcone posted...

You are the one who claimed the kid is going to get raped in spite of zero evidence that this is a problem, so lets not get into how that view point is pandering to intellectually lazy conservatives afraid of people who are different.

Sexual assault occurs in bathrooms, this is documented. this child has difficulty regarding its sexual framework, this is documented. Bullies target oddities, this is also documented.

Do tell me why you believe this evidence does not suggest that an outlier in the sexual arena would not be bullied more in an environment with heightened sexual deviancy?

You realize there is a substantial gap between bullied and raped in school bathroom, yes? Seems like you are presenting them as one and the same.
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kangolcone posted...

How is allowing this student to use the bathroom they choose without being forced to relieve themselves in front of an adult pandering anyway?

Because everyone else has to use the assigned room or face penalty.

kangolcone posted...

Studies estimate the transgender community is anywhere from half a percent to around 5 percent.

2.7% of london is gay, do you think it's remotely feasible that transgenders outgrow them 2-to-1?

This is why transgender studies are treated as dubious, motives are not purely intellectual.
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Moreover, your argument holds no water since most trans people feel more comfortable and safer in the bathroom of their identified gender.
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kangolcone posted...

What maneuvers exactly? Allowing a person who presents as a boy to use the boys bathroom without being forced to use it with an adult present?

No, documenting student bathroom choice without requiring an incident.

kangolcone posted...

You realize there is a substantial gap between bullied and raped in school bathroom, yes? Seems like you are presenting them as one and the same.

Bullying over sexual differences overlaps pretty strongly with sexual abuse, rape is a form of sexual abuse, particularly one that is emotive enough to catch your attention.
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kangolcone posted...

Moreover, your argument holds no water since most trans people feel more comfortable and safer in the bathroom of their identified gender.

People feel less safe now despite lower crime rates, your argument holds no water.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

kangolcone posted...

How is allowing this student to use the bathroom they choose without being forced to relieve themselves in front of an adult pandering anyway?

Because everyone else has to use the assigned room or face penalty.

kangolcone posted...

Studies estimate the transgender community is anywhere from half a percent to around 5 percent.

2.7% of london is gay, do you think it's remotely feasible that transgenders outgrow them 2-to-1?

This is why transgender studies are treated as dubious, motives are not purely intellectual.

I will copy and paste the previous response since you seemed to have missed it. kangolcone posted...

Weirdly enough because the stigma around trans people (often times because people like you float vague ideas with no basis) the number is hard to ascertain.

See, when the person points out that the numbers are hard to ascertain and then you delete that part to say the numbers are hard to ascertain. you come across as being dishonest to me at least.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

kangolcone posted...

What maneuvers exactly? Allowing a person who presents as a boy to use the boys bathroom without being forced to use it with an adult present?

No, documenting student bathroom choice without requiring an incident.

kangolcone posted...

You realize there is a substantial gap between bullied and raped in school bathroom, yes? Seems like you are presenting them as one and the same.

Bullying over sexual differences overlaps pretty strongly with sexual abuse, rape is a form of sexual abuse, particularly one that is emotive enough to catch your attention.

Hahaha. So, you want an adult to sit outside of a bathroom and watch and collect data on which student goes into which bathroom? Lmao. Is that serious?

If rapes are so common, show me the evidence? You keep claiming my lack of evidence isnt proof and then provide no documentation only loose assertions.
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I like that you honestly suggest having an adult write down the bathroom which every student uses as a good idea.
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Is this an every time thing? Or is watching them once enough?

I mean what if they trick the system by going to the girls room when they are being watched but then rape everybody in the school when nobody is marking down their choice?

I mean its never happened, but rape is common. Rape is usually committed when there are no witnesses. So if we dont have adults marking down bathroom choice, they all get raped.

Youve convinced me.
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kangolcone posted...

See, when the person points out that the numbers are hard to ascertain and then you delete that part to say the numbers are hard to ascertain. you come across as being dishonest to me at least.

I ignore the part that supports me as it doesn't require challenging. The numbers are hard to determine, so the lower bound has more grounding in reality.

kangolcone posted...

Hahaha. So, you want an adult to sit outside of a bathroom and watch and collect data on which student goes into which bathroom? Lmao. Is that his serious?

You can, like, ask. It's not hard to be a human.

kangolcone posted...

If rapes are so common, show me the evidence? You keep claiming my lack of evidence isnt proof and then provide no documentation only loose assertions.

I never said they were common, doesn't make the target less vulnerable though. Getting in a serious car crash is rare yet your car still has crumple zones.

kangolcone posted...

I like that you honestly suggest having an adult write down the bathroom which every student uses as a good idea.

You think scrapping bathrooms to appease maybe .5% is reasonable, you have no room to speak.
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No, I suggest allowing children to use the bathroom they feel comfortable in since there is no evidence that it leads to increased sexual violence without an adult demanding the child relieve themself with the adult at their back.
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Also, its not .5%. Around 40% of Americans support people being able to use the bathroom they identify with.

When they legalize pot, they arent doing it to pander to pot smokers, its because a lot of people support the idea.
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kangolcone posted...

No, I suggest allowing children to use the bathroom they feel comfortable in since there is no evidence that it leads to increased sexual violence

There's no evidence, because you don't collect it.

There's no evidence that legal street racing is dangerous (since it's never legal), guess we should drop traffic laws!
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kangolcone posted...

Also, its not .5%. Around 40% of Americans support people being able to use the bathroom they identify with.

.5% think they can't under standard rule.

kangolcone posted...

When they legalize pot, they arent doing it to pander to pot smokers, its because a lot of people support the idea.

40% isn't even a majority, let alone a supermajority required for most votes.
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