Current Events > Dutch is the best character Rockstar has ever made

(+) Yeah! (+)

Red dead redemption 3 better be about him in his younger years

Hes also one of my favourite video game villains of all time, and I very much wonder what he would be like if he never met that fucking snake Micah.

HAVE SOME GODDAMN FAITH
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Bump
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Reminds me of Big Boss a little.
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He's definitely a great character. Honestly, everyone in RDR2 was really well-written, and the actors really brought them to life.

Dutch's progression from the start of the game to the end felt very believable, and it was interested to watch the dissent within the group evolve to what it ended up like
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He's not even the best Red Dead Redemption character
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Irony posted...

He's not even the best Red Dead Redemption character

No faith detected
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I'm really excited about replaying the first game now that I have a completely different perspective on all these characters.

Also, it occurred to me the other night that while I understand why the other characters follow Dutch, he's actually kind of a terrible leader and basically every plan he comes up with turns to shit
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WE NEED MORE MONeY
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SSJCAT posted...

WE NEED MORE MONeY

As I'm walking around with $6000 in my pocket, lol
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I haven't played RD2 but I never got why people liked him so much in RDR1

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

People : "NO! STFU HE's a secret genius and brilliabt social commentary!"

And then RDR2 goes "this guy is just an incompotent idiot with no real plan."

And everyone goes "OMG This is genius writing! What a twist!"

I just don't get it....
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eston posted...

I'm really excited about replaying the first game now that I have a completely different perspective on all these characters.

Also, it occurred to me the other night that while I understand why the other characters follow Dutch, he's actually kind of a terrible leader and basically every plan he comes up with turns to shit

because before the events of the game used to operate like

Hosea comes up with plan

Dutch gets everyone hyped up and explains it

but once Dutch starts trying to plan (starting at blackwater) this dynamic gets thrown out the window and Hoseas Death Leads to no real checks and balances. Because Arthur might complain to Dutch but he still obeys.
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What's weird is as I've progressed through this game, watching Dutch lose it while Arthur starts to question his own morality, I've found that I've begun dressing Arthur more and more like Dutch. At first I didn't really notice it. But earlier in the game I was rocking flannels and jeans, cowboy hats and a hobo beard. Now I wear collared, buttoned up shirts and nice pants. I keep myself groomed. I've begun wearing a tie.
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eston posted...

What's weird is as I've progressed through this game, watching Dutch lose it while Arthur starts to question his own morality, I've found that I've begun dressing Arthur more and more like Dutch. At first I didn't really notice it. But earlier in the game I was rocking flannels and jeans, cowboy hats and a hobo beard. Now I wear collared, buttoned up shirts and nice pants. I keep myself groomed. I've begun wearing a tie.

i was pretty fancy and grew a big ol mustache
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eston posted...

What's weird is as I've progressed through this game, watching Dutch lose it while Arthur starts to question his own morality, I've found that I've begun dressing Arthur more and more like Dutch. At first I didn't really notice it. But earlier in the game I was rocking flannels and jeans, cowboy hats and a hobo beard. Now I wear collared, buttoned up shirts and nice pants. I keep myself groomed. I've begun wearing a tie.

I like a nice suit with a shotgun, a bow, and 2 revolvers strapped overtop
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I read on the RDR2 board that, all of the speeches that Dutch gives about the loss of someone, or something like that, are rehearsed, and you can find notes in the camp as early as chapter two

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/200179-red-dead-redemption-2/77298240
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SSJCAT posted...

i was pretty fancy and grew a big ol mustache

I'm working on a pretty kickass handlebar right now
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Dutch is better than everyone in the character battle

lmao @ Nintendofaqs
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Micah didn't really start getting in Dutch's ear until after the Guarma chapter, so it still would've all turned out bad without him there. Dutch was already leading them down a bad path before then. His basic philosophy wasn't that people should be free and civilzation was ruining everything, it was that Dutch should be free, and everyone should just follow him.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I haven't played RD2 but I never got why people liked him so much in RDR1

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

People : "NO! STFU HE's a secret genius and brilliabt social commentary!"

And then RDR2 goes "this guy is just an incompotent idiot with no real plan."

And everyone goes "OMG This is genius writing! What a twist!"

I just don't get it....

Because being an idiot doesnt make someone a bad character
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Hes easily the most annoying, one dimensional part of that game.
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codey posted...

Micah didn't really start getting in Dutch's ear until after the Guarma chapter, so it still would've all turned out bad without him there. Dutch was already leading them down a bad path before then. His basic philosophy wasn't that people should be free and civilzation was ruining everything, it was that Dutch should be free, and everyone should just follow him.

Wasn't Blackwater Micah's plan though? I think the gang really started going downhill after blackwater, it's collapse would've inevitable but slower without Micah to egg on Dutch at every turn
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

Because he was a villain that already saw the writing on the wall for the Wild West, and correctly predicted that the government would just look for another monster to hunt to justify its own existence.
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ShangDoh posted...

codey posted...

Micah didn't really start getting in Dutch's ear until after the Guarma chapter, so it still would've all turned out bad without him there. Dutch was already leading them down a bad path before then. His basic philosophy wasn't that people should be free and civilzation was ruining everything, it was that Dutch should be free, and everyone should just follow him.

Wasn't Blackwater Micah's plan though? I think the gang really started going downhill after blackwater, it's collapse would've inevitable but slower without Micah to egg on Dutch at every turn

Yeah. I'm convinced that Micah was spilling the beans long before Guarma. Every plan of Dutch's that went wrong just so happened because somebody somehow figured out what they were up to.

That's not to say Dutch was good at planning though. Usually, Hosea was the guy making the plans, and most of the plans that went wrong, Hosea wasn't around for.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

ShangDoh posted...

codey posted...

Micah didn't really start getting in Dutch's ear until after the Guarma chapter, so it still would've all turned out bad without him there. Dutch was already leading them down a bad path before then. His basic philosophy wasn't that people should be free and civilzation was ruining everything, it was that Dutch should be free, and everyone should just follow him.

Wasn't Blackwater Micah's plan though? I think the gang really started going downhill after blackwater, it's collapse would've inevitable but slower without Micah to egg on Dutch at every turn

Yeah. I'm convinced that Micah was spilling the beans long before Guarma. Every plan of Dutch's that went wrong just so happened because somebody somehow figured out what they were up to.

Maybe, but before the Saint Denis job everything that went bad was just shit luck and planning on Hosea and Dutch's part.

Also, an interesting thing to note is that the pinkertons didn't get Micah until after Guarma, so I think Molly really was the one to snitch about the bank job. It would make sense with how they were basically already there waiting for them. I can't see Micah snitching himself into a gun fight after all, he's the ultimate snake.
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codey posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

ShangDoh posted...

codey posted...

Micah didn't really start getting in Dutch's ear until after the Guarma chapter, so it still would've all turned out bad without him there. Dutch was already leading them down a bad path before then. His basic philosophy wasn't that people should be free and civilzation was ruining everything, it was that Dutch should be free, and everyone should just follow him.

Wasn't Blackwater Micah's plan though? I think the gang really started going downhill after blackwater, it's collapse would've inevitable but slower without Micah to egg on Dutch at every turn

Yeah. I'm convinced that Micah was spilling the beans long before Guarma. Every plan of Dutch's that went wrong just so happened because somebody somehow figured out what they were up to.

Maybe, but before the Saint Denis job everything that went bad was just shit luck and planning on Hosea and Dutch's part.

Also, an interesting thing to note is that the pinkertons didn't get Micah until after Guarma, so I think Molly really was the one to snitch about the bank job. It would make sense with how they were basically already there waiting for them. I can't see Micah snitching himself into a gun fight after all, he's the ultimate snake.

The only problem with that is that Milton said she never snitched, and I don't see any reason he'd have to lie about that.
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I'm not even done yet and there's been several instances where I don't understand why Arthur doesn't put a bullet between Micah's eyes. He just brought a couple of his own guys into my camp, and every time I see them I think damn, I could dead-eye all three of these fucks
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

codey posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

ShangDoh posted...

codey posted...

Micah didn't really start getting in Dutch's ear until after the Guarma chapter, so it still would've all turned out bad without him there. Dutch was already leading them down a bad path before then. His basic philosophy wasn't that people should be free and civilzation was ruining everything, it was that Dutch should be free, and everyone should just follow him.

Wasn't Blackwater Micah's plan though? I think the gang really started going downhill after blackwater, it's collapse would've inevitable but slower without Micah to egg on Dutch at every turn

Yeah. I'm convinced that Micah was spilling the beans long before Guarma. Every plan of Dutch's that went wrong just so happened because somebody somehow figured out what they were up to.

Maybe, but before the Saint Denis job everything that went bad was just shit luck and planning on Hosea and Dutch's part.

Also, an interesting thing to note is that the pinkertons didn't get Micah until after Guarma, so I think Molly really was the one to snitch about the bank job. It would make sense with how they were basically already there waiting for them. I can't see Micah snitching himself into a gun fight after all, he's the ultimate snake.

The only problem with that is that Milton said she never snitched, and I don't see any reason he'd have to lie about that.

Ah, forgot that bit. Still, I can't see it being Micah, especially with Milton stating they didn't get him until after.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

Because he was a villain that already saw the writing on the wall for the Wild West, and correctly predicted that the government would just look for another monster to hunt to justify its own existence.

Thats really stretching far to make Dutch out to be some deep character.
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Deadpool_18 posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

Because he was a villain that already saw the writing on the wall for the Wild West, and correctly predicted that the government would just look for another monster to hunt to justify its own existence.

Thats really stretching far to make Dutch out to be some deep character.

It's literally what he says though, practically word for word.
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codey posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

codey posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

ShangDoh posted...

codey posted...

Micah didn't really start getting in Dutch's ear until after the Guarma chapter, so it still would've all turned out bad without him there. Dutch was already leading them down a bad path before then. His basic philosophy wasn't that people should be free and civilzation was ruining everything, it was that Dutch should be free, and everyone should just follow him.

Wasn't Blackwater Micah's plan though? I think the gang really started going downhill after blackwater, it's collapse would've inevitable but slower without Micah to egg on Dutch at every turn

Yeah. I'm convinced that Micah was spilling the beans long before Guarma. Every plan of Dutch's that went wrong just so happened because somebody somehow figured out what they were up to.

Maybe, but before the Saint Denis job everything that went bad was just shit luck and planning on Hosea and Dutch's part.

Also, an interesting thing to note is that the pinkertons didn't get Micah until after Guarma, so I think Molly really was the one to snitch about the bank job. It would make sense with how they were basically already there waiting for them. I can't see Micah snitching himself into a gun fight after all, he's the ultimate snake.

The only problem with that is that Milton said she never snitched, and I don't see any reason he'd have to lie about that.

Ah, forgot that bit. Still, I can't see it being Micah, especially with Milton stating they didn't get him until after.

Maybe they didn't get him until then, but maybe he leaked information somehow. I don't know. The whole Saint Dennis robbery to me reeked of somebody snitching.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Deadpool_18 posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

Because he was a villain that already saw the writing on the wall for the Wild West, and correctly predicted that the government would just look for another monster to hunt to justify its own existence.

Thats really stretching far to make Dutch out to be some deep character.

It's literally what he says though, practically word for word.

Yeah that's literally the entire point of Dutch lol
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eston posted...

I'm not even done yet and there's been several instances where I don't understand why Arthur doesn't put a bullet between Micah's eyes. He just brought a couple of his own guys into my camp, and every time I see them I think damn, I could dead-eye all three of these fucks

Loyalty to Dutch, really. Arthur makes it clear he never liked Micah and only saved his ass because Dutch wanted him to.

Honestly, I wish the gang would have just decided to let the bastard hang.
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

codey posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

codey posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

ShangDoh posted...

codey posted...

Micah didn't really start getting in Dutch's ear until after the Guarma chapter, so it still would've all turned out bad without him there. Dutch was already leading them down a bad path before then. His basic philosophy wasn't that people should be free and civilzation was ruining everything, it was that Dutch should be free, and everyone should just follow him.

Wasn't Blackwater Micah's plan though? I think the gang really started going downhill after blackwater, it's collapse would've inevitable but slower without Micah to egg on Dutch at every turn

Yeah. I'm convinced that Micah was spilling the beans long before Guarma. Every plan of Dutch's that went wrong just so happened because somebody somehow figured out what they were up to.

Maybe, but before the Saint Denis job everything that went bad was just shit luck and planning on Hosea and Dutch's part.

Also, an interesting thing to note is that the pinkertons didn't get Micah until after Guarma, so I think Molly really was the one to snitch about the bank job. It would make sense with how they were basically already there waiting for them. I can't see Micah snitching himself into a gun fight after all, he's the ultimate snake.

The only problem with that is that Milton said she never snitched, and I don't see any reason he'd have to lie about that.

Ah, forgot that bit. Still, I can't see it being Micah, especially with Milton stating they didn't get him until after.

Maybe they didn't get him until then, but maybe he leaked information somehow. I don't know. The whole Saint Dennis robbery to me reeked of somebody snitching.

at the same time, we were a gang of bank robbers camped near the city, and we had just made our presence known by both raiding Bronte's mansion and trying to rob the train station. The pinkertons probably could have deduced what was next, because Milton was all over us.
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Just one more job then its off to Tahiti!!!
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codey posted...

at the same time, we were a gang of bank robbers camped near the city, and we had just made our presence known by both raiding Bronte's mansion and trying to rob the train station. The pinkertons probably could have deduced what was next, because Milton was all over us.

Yeah, that makes sense too.

I guess it's up to interpretation at the end of the day.
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SSJCAT posted...

eston posted...

What's weird is as I've progressed through this game, watching Dutch lose it while Arthur starts to question his own morality, I've found that I've begun dressing Arthur more and more like Dutch. At first I didn't really notice it. But earlier in the game I was rocking flannels and jeans, cowboy hats and a hobo beard. Now I wear collared, buttoned up shirts and nice pants. I keep myself groomed. I've begun wearing a tie.

i was pretty fancy and grew a big ol mustache

I keep my hair left parted at 3 (no pomade ever and I dont wear hats), side burns at a 1 or 2 and a big honking snake tongue beard and pencil moustache
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

eston posted...

I'm not even done yet and there's been several instances where I don't understand why Arthur doesn't put a bullet between Micah's eyes. He just brought a couple of his own guys into my camp, and every time I see them I think damn, I could dead-eye all three of these fucks

Loyalty to Dutch, really. Arthur makes it clear he never liked Micah and only saved his ass because Dutch wanted him to.

Honestly, I wish the gang would have just decided to let the bastard hang.

I find it interesting how Micah actually looks up to Arthur

Arthur calls Micah cowpoke once. Before that Micah never said it. After that he says it so much
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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Deadpool_18 posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

Because he was a villain that already saw the writing on the wall for the Wild West, and correctly predicted that the government would just look for another monster to hunt to justify its own existence.

Thats really stretching far to make Dutch out to be some deep character.

It's literally what he says though, practically word for word.

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Ryuko_Chan posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Deadpool_18 posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

Because he was a villain that already saw the writing on the wall for the Wild West, and correctly predicted that the government would just look for another monster to hunt to justify its own existence.

Thats really stretching far to make Dutch out to be some deep character.

It's literally what he says though, practically word for word.

Ah sorry lol
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It's too bad they did not make Dutch the playable character instead a guy you knew was gonna die since Arthur was never is RDR1
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Ryuko_Chan posted...

I keep my hair left parted at 3 (no pomade ever and I dont wear hats), side burns at a 1 or 2 and a big honking snake tongue beard and pencil moustache

I've gone through a few phases, including when I wasn't cutting my hair at all, but right now I stick with a #2 right part fade, always use pomade, and stay clean shaven except for my handlebar mustache which I'm working on maxing out. Sometimes I wear a hat, sometimes not.
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eston posted...

Ryuko_Chan posted...

I keep my hair left parted at 3 (no pomade ever and I dont wear hats), side burns at a 1 or 2 and a big honking snake tongue beard and pencil moustache

I've gone through a few phases, including when I wasn't cutting my hair at all, but right now I stick with a #2 right part fade, always use pomade, and stay clean shaven except for my handlebar mustache which I'm working on maxing out. Sometimes I wear a hat, sometimes not.

I have a level 10 mustache lol. I keep everything else on my face shaved with a short fade on my head.
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It takes a long time to reach max hair growth. I had a surprisingly difficult time convincing myself to shave the hobo beard
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Deadpool_18 posted...

Ryuko_Chan posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

Deadpool_18 posted...

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I was like "Why is this guy a dramatic villain? He seems just to be an incompotent idiot with no real plan?"

Because he was a villain that already saw the writing on the wall for the Wild West, and correctly predicted that the government would just look for another monster to hunt to justify its own existence.

Thats really stretching far to make Dutch out to be some deep character.

It's literally what he says though, practically word for word.

Ah sorry lol

so are you criticizing the game without even playing it
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