Current Events > Would you rather read a fantasy book with elves and orcs or one without them?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm writing a fantasy novel, and I could make it work with elves and orcs, or without them. It WILL have fantastical creatures along the lines of mysterious folk tale style woodlands creatures, like pixies or fairies, or maybe even stuff like bridge trolls or ogres or even dragons, possibly. Those kind of creatures will be very far removed from human societies, and most people would go without ever seeing them, and they don't have their own culture or society or anything, they're more like a wild "animal" out there in the woods just doing their own thing.

But those kind of creatures are a very different thing compared to straight up elves and orcs walkin' around in plain sight, you know? Not having those Tolkien races would make the story more believable and grounded and "less nerdy", but then also those races, especially if I put my own spin on them, could make the story more fun.

I'm so fifty fifty on this decision and I change my mind every day and I'm at the part in the book where I need to make a decision.
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Orc Women are hot so with.
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fuck elves and orcs, make your own cool fantasy races
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I prefer a story without them. It wouldn't be terrible to include them, though, since you already plan to add other mythical races.
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I'm not really a fan of high fantasy stuff, and maybe because of that, I was never a fan of: trolls, orcs, elves, dwarves, etc.
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If it's fantasy, I feel that it needs to have at least SOME sort of fantasy race. Not just as rampaging monsters, but as sapient races with their own culture, and seeing how that interacts with humans and other cultures.

I was going to vote no on the grounds that elves and orcs have been slightly over-used. But after reading the OP and seeing the context, I believe I'd vote yes for this particular case. If elves and orcs are your only choices for sapient races, go for it.
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I don't really care for the "noble savage monoculture" elf seen in various discount fantasy literature/games or the "I am better than you at everything" elf that tolkien used.

If you have elves that are somewhat unique and interesting I'd be interested in hearing more. I really liked the concept of Dragon Age's city elves. I also like Shadowrun's interpretation of them although that's more of a science fantasy mashup.
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boxington posted...

I'm not really a fan of high fantasy stuff, and maybe because of that, I was never a fan of: trolls, orcs, elves, dwarves, etc.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

I don't really care for the "noble savage monoculture" elf seen in various discount fantasy literature/games or the "I am better than you at everything" elf that tolkien used.

If you have elves that are somewhat unique and interesting I'd be interested in hearing more. I really liked the concept of Dragon Age's city elves. I also like Shadowrun's interpretation of them although that's more of a science fantasy mashup.

this

orcs are pretty boring as a rule though
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If they are included at this point in the genre there needs to be some really compelling subversion going on.

Example. In the wheel of time their is a race called the Ogier. Now the way the series works is the series is on earth in the very distant future so a lot of our legends and history show up. The Ogier are great big folks, what we would recognize as an Ogre in Tolkinite fantasy. But socially their more Elvy in that they live an extended lifespan and are total tree huggers. They have not always existed in our reality as they have the ability to reality hop and live in Millennia long periods of here and not here. Further more the old tongue name for them is Alantan.

Alantan
Atlantian
Atlantis.

Conclusion, Ogres are from Atlantis
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I'd normally say no because that suggests a certain type of fantasy setting that I'm not suuuper fond of. but the rest of your post has enough stuff to suggest that setting anyway so at that point sure go for it
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IDK, I don't think I can give a preference. My favorite fantasy world is LotR, but I don't know if I would go as far as saying that I would automatically prefer elves and orcs.
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It sounds like you have enough to work with already so it could work either way. Elves would be hard to do as wild animals though without changing the generally agreed upon outline of what an elf is. I think orcs could work as even more devolved then they usually are. Rather than a savage warrior race they could basically be cavemen types who can only make basic tools and have no real speech.

Some choice thoughts:

Vyrulisse posted...

Orc Women are hot so with.

That's a legit compelling argument. I love she-orcs, and if I went with orcs a she-orc would be a featured character. She'd get captured by our heroes and be a bitch but ultimately side with the good guys because of a greater evil.

Master_Bass posted...

I prefer a story without them. It wouldn't be terrible to include them, though, since you already plan to add other mythical races.

That's kinda why I began to consider throwing in elves and orcs in the first place. I've already got all these other fantastical things. Like, a fairy or pixie will definitely end up being a main character (think Puck from Berserk). I just thought it might feel weird to just have a bunch of humans around, and then bam, fairy character. The elves and orcs make it known that this is a fantasy right away. But then, eh, elves and orcs. >_>

Tyranthraxus posted...

I don't really care for the "noble savage monoculture" elf seen in various discount fantasy literature/games or the "I am better than you at everything" elf that tolkien used.

If you have elves that are somewhat unique and interesting I'd be interested in hearing more. I really liked the concept of Dragon Age's city elves. I also like Shadowrun's interpretation of them although that's more of a science fantasy mashup.

I don't like the tropes you don't like as well. It's funny you bring up Dragon Age city elves, mine would kinda be like that. They're going to be short and physically inferior, be kinda weird physically, like they have four fingers. They have no nation or real culture of their own, they're treated like garbage by humans and anyone else, worker class. They would have strange personalities, like not proud Tolkien style and not humans with pointy ears, but like, almost autistic kinda. They'd really be limited in both physical and cognitive abilities and are straight up a lesser race. They get employed as simple servants and prostitutes and stuff, or just live on the streets like bums.

specialkid8 posted...

It sounds like you have enough to work with already so it could work either way. Elves would be hard to do as wild animals though without changing the generally agreed upon outline of what an elf is. I think orcs could work as even more devolved then they usually are. Rather than a savage warrior race they could basically be cavemen types who can only make basic tools and have no real speech.

Oh I think you're mixed up there, the elves and orcs would be integrated in society in some way, they wouldn't be like wild animals. I'm saying that I know I'm 100% going to have stuff like trolls and fairies and stuff and they're like mysterious creatures off in the forest. But yeah the elves and orcs would be plenty evolved like normal, with slight differences.

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Lotta orc hate, I honestly like orcs more than elves in general. My plan for the orcs would be, they're very rarely seen, no huge armies or society, but are a dying race, they live in the deep woods in small tribes, and they're like seven feet tall and super dangerous. None of this chopping down orcs left and right stuff, you'd need multiple fighters to take down just one. Even she-orcs!

I'm still so split. I do feel like elves and orcs dumb down the work, and make it more nerdy D&D style junk. But also they can be fun, and I'm going for kind of a fun story here. I dunno. :(
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I'm fucking sick of elves in general. Having said that, I'd read whatever. Elves in whatever fantasy setting are aristocratic douchebags who whine about societal progress because teh humanz r bad and teh forests r good. I'm neutral about orcs.
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I think they're useful to give your readers a quick and easy way to identify with them. everyone who reads fantasy knows what an Elf and an Orc are so it saves you from making descriptions up
like, i'd say it's even worse to have Urgs that are basically Orcs just with a different name*
when it comes to OurOrcsAreDifferent, ehh. again, the beauty of using stock races are that you don't have to make your readers learn something new. your orcs aren't drastically different so you can def use them, but you might as well just give them a new name

*i'd say it's different if you are doing it with a different genre. like in star trek, vulcans are space elves and klingons are space orcs and it works
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Link43130 posted...

fuck elves and orcs, make your own cool fantasy races

he isn't creative enough
that is also why he made a topic like this on CE

LMAO
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I don't care, but i felt compelled to vote

they're fine, but you could try being less stereotypical with them. ever sense tolken functionally invented them the common theme is that elves are snooty immortals or tree hugging hippies and orcs are just monsters. change that up.
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Elves and orcs.
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roos1046 Reborn posted...

Link43130 posted...

fuck elves and orcs, make your own cool fantasy races

he isn't creative enough
that is also why he made a topic like this on CE

LMAO

Hah! I already got in inb4roostrolling over on LUE! You're getting too predictable. :P
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spanky1 posted...

roos1046 Reborn posted...

Link43130 posted...

fuck elves and orcs, make your own cool fantasy races

he isn't creative enough
that is also why he made a topic like this on CE

LMAO

Hah! I already got in inb4roostrolling over on LUE! You're getting too predictable. :P

trolling? nice try

I am just posting facts.
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<3 you too roos :3
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Either's fine. I've read ones I like with them and ones without them.
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You can do both. Have them but dead.
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