Current Events > Harvard study confirms that the gender wage gap is a myth

(+) Yeah! (+)

Official study
https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/bolotnyy/files/be_gendergap.pdf

https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/12/harvard-study-confirms-the-gender-wage-gap-is-just-a-myth/

"In 2017, men worked an average of 8.05 hours in an average day compared to 7.24 hours for women."
---

prior studies have indicated it to be around 3-7% (depending on source) after controlling for things like hrs worked

what you quoted doesnt really get to the meat of the harvard finding, basically every study ever has indicated women work fewer hours

help the community out and quote the relevant results and not part of the dataset that led to it
---

The reality is there is a "mom" gap, not a gender gap, and Iceland has already solved the problem by (more or less) requiring men to take paternity leave.
---

P4wn4g3 posted...

The reality is there is a "mom" gap, not a gender gap, and Iceland has already solved the problem by (more or less) requiring men to take paternity leave.

the harvard study investigated this and noted that it's a bit different from that

one of the gaps is overtime worked when given the chance. men always do it more, but married men without dependents do it much more than married men with dependents--so much more that the gender gap for OT taken actually gets wider without dependents rather than smaller

women do less OT when they have dependents, obviously, but not much less--they already do very little when childless

their data was showing the mom gap only narrowed things to 0.90
---

Yeah- I didn't say it was eliminated. I didn't know where the 0.9 number came from though, interesting to know its OT. That means salaried positions aren't accounting for it.
---

It's pretty clear from the literature that the gender wage gap comes from somewhere. Nobody seriously thinks that women are simply paid less. But the real question is what cultural issues surround the factors that lead to a gap, and whether those cultural issues place women at a disadvantage.
---

COVxy posted...

But the real question is what cultural issues surround the factors that lead to a gap, and whether those cultural issues place women at a disadvantage.

The real question is whether there is actually any statistically meaningful data and where that comes from. You have to find the data before hypothesizing why it's there. Simply collecting that ki d of data is a rather large task. For example did the Harvard study equally poll those in exempt/non exempt positions? What about benefits? Then there is the question of studying varied population centers, including rural areas and larger or more diverse areas.
---

P4wn4g3 posted...

COVxy posted...

But the real question is what cultural issues surround the factors that lead to a gap, and whether those cultural issues place women at a disadvantage.

The real question is whether there is actually any statistically meaningful data and where that comes from. You have to find the data before hypothesizing why it's there. Simply collecting that ki d of data is a rather large task. For example did the Harvard study equally poll those in exempt/non exempt positions? What about benefits? Then there is the question of studying varied population centers, including rural areas and larger or more diverse areas.

Clearly the people doing this research wouldn't have thought of such complex issues with data collection and interpretation, therefore you don't even need to read through the literature. Just assume they haven't done a good job and we don't know so that you can maintain your current position.
---

Feel like enlightening me on what my position is since you seem to be feeling particularly snarky
---

P4wn4g3 posted...

Feel like enlightening me on what my position is since you seem to be feeling particularly snarky

Why don't you tell me?

Why did you jump immediately to "researchers don't know what they are doing"?
---

Ah so I'm saying researchers don't know what they are doing. Probably a flat earther or some shit. Thanks for the input buddy.
---

Haven't there been studies that hypothesize the gap is because women are also less likely to negotiate their salaries?
---

P4wn4g3 posted...

Ah so I'm saying researchers don't know what they are doing.

You didn't read the OP study, but immediately went to "here are these confounds I'm assuming they don't understand".

Am I supposed to make a conclusion other than you think that the researchers are incompetent?
---

COVxy posted...

Nobody seriously thinks that women are simply paid less.

That is exactly what they believe
---

You could try not acting like an ass.
---

Extraordinary.... takes a team of Harvard researchers to disprove something that was obviously false.

Really shows how smart the average person is when many people actually think the wage gap exists.
---

Does it account for position? Think the glass ceiling is a very real thing
---

Squall28 posted...

Does it account for position? Think the glass ceiling is a very real thing

Largely because of the "mom gap".

Harvard has been a joke since the 90's
---

P4wn4g3 posted...

You could try not acting like an ass.

Not every opinion is equal, and not all implications deserve to be left uncovered.
---

Squall28 posted...

Does it account for position? Think the glass ceiling is a very real thing

Many studies that find a dramatic wage gape often combined unrelated positions (such as librarian and economist) into one category. The job a person chooses is influenced by gender and most of those jobs with a heavy female majority pay less than those with heavy male majorities (exceptions like Nurses and Veterinarians exist of course).
---

COVxy posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

You could try not acting like an ass.

Not every opinion is equal, and not all implications deserve to be left uncovered.

dude i don't care. act like an ass all you want. don't expect anyone to take conversation with you seriously if that's your position.
---

Just have little patience for people who assume they know better than the people who spend their entire lives studying this shit lol.
---

No, you just project like a fucking IMAX. I've given close to zero position in this topic.
---

Not my fault, you refused to tell me lol.
---

COVxy posted...

Clearly the people doing this research wouldn't have thought of such complex issues with data collection and interpretation, therefore you don't even need to read through the literature. Just assume they haven't done a good job and we don't know so that you can maintain your current position.

Every time there's a topic like this, people spring out of the gates with very simple level 1 explanations like "Did they forget to control for *insert very obvious thing you would control for*?"
---

COVxy posted...

Nobody seriously thinks that women are simply paid less.

Well, no economists or statisticians.

But being fair, we have been marinating for years in pop feminism, which really does present the issue as "women are simply paid less."

So, you get people who are immediately suspicious of any research in the field, both in fear that it will be used to disprove that narrative, and in fear that it will be used to support it.

The narrative is changing, though, and embracing the data that shows things like the 'mom gap', which will allow for real progress towards functional solutions.
---

Anteaterking posted...

COVxy posted...

Clearly the people doing this research wouldn't have thought of such complex issues with data collection and interpretation, therefore you don't even need to read through the literature. Just assume they haven't done a good job and we don't know so that you can maintain your current position.

Every time there's a topic like this, people spring out of the gates with very simple level 1 explanations like "Did they forget to control for *insert very obvious thing you would control for*?"

"control"

More like ignoring factors based on how you want the outcome to be.
---

Darkman124 posted...

prior studies have indicated it to be around 3-7% (depending on source) after controlling for things like hrs worked

what you quoted doesnt really get to the meat of the harvard finding, basically every study ever has indicated women work fewer hours

help the community out and quote the relevant results and not part of the dataset that led to it

Usually, people who work less hours aren't as important or as much of a asset to a company.
---

Uncle Choad posted...

Usually, people who work less hours aren't as important or as much of a asset to a company.

i disagree. in my line of work, many of our part-timers are SMEs who are in semi-retirement, but absolutely critical to our programs.
---

Darkman124 posted...

Uncle Choad posted...

Usually, people who work less hours aren't as important or as much of a asset to a company.

i disagree. in my line of work, many of our part-timers are SMEs who are in semi-retirement, but absolutely critical to our programs.

Semi retired lol. How many consultants are complaining about compensation?
---

Uncle Choad posted...

Semi retired lol. How many consultants are complaining about compensation?

typically, in our line of work, there are very large gender wage gaps.

it's not a result of a difference in hours worked in a given year, but a difference in years worked in the field in the employee's lifetime, even among people of similar ages.

this discussion has been about the actual causes of gender wage differences, though, not about who's complaining. in general, among higher income levels, no one is complaining.
---

Doesn't matter. Women won't believe it.
---

lol Now suddenly Harvard "Doesn't know what they are talking about" because it doesn't conform to their misguided beliefs.

Darkman124 posted...

it's not a result of a difference in hours worked in a given year, but a difference in years worked in the field in the employee's lifetime, even among people of similar ages.

This sounds fine, though. Generally that's called experience (unless you're a useless adult in the public sector, where they have those rules).

No private company is going to pay a more useless person more money to make the place less money.
---

Men work overtime cus they'd rather be getting paid to have people bitch at them
---

Hey man. Facts don't matter. They're only opinions man.
---

Uncle Choad posted...

Anteaterking posted...

COVxy posted...

Clearly the people doing this research wouldn't have thought of such complex issues with data collection and interpretation, therefore you don't even need to read through the literature. Just assume they haven't done a good job and we don't know so that you can maintain your current position.

Every time there's a topic like this, people spring out of the gates with very simple level 1 explanations like "Did they forget to control for *insert very obvious thing you would control for*?"

"control"

More like ignoring factors based on how you want the outcome to be.

Go ahead and lay out from top to bottom how you think statistical controls work in research studies and how that translates to "ignoring factors based on how you want the outcome to be".
---

Everyone knew this already

SpreadManning posted...

Everyone knew this already

If only.
From the recent Flash/Arrow/Supergirl crossover, where fans try to perpetuate the myth -
https://www.reddit.com/r/supergirlTV/comments/a4tkpx/did_anyone_else_cringe_a_bit/
---

Frolex posted...

Uncle Choad posted...

Anteaterking posted...

COVxy posted...

Clearly the people doing this research wouldn't have thought of such complex issues with data collection and interpretation, therefore you don't even need to read through the literature. Just assume they haven't done a good job and we don't know so that you can maintain your current position.

Every time there's a topic like this, people spring out of the gates with very simple level 1 explanations like "Did they forget to control for *insert very obvious thing you would control for*?"

"control"

More like ignoring factors based on how you want the outcome to be.

Go ahead and lay out from top to bottom how you think statistical controls work in research studies and how that translates to "ignoring factors based on how you want the outcome to be".

"Studies" lol. How many have "proven" something absolutely useless?
---

You didn't even put in any effort there, eh?
---