Current Events > if gender is a social construct, why do many transgendered people transition?

(+) Yeah! (+)

to get hormones/bodies like people of the opposite sex.

if gender is entirely social, why can't they be that gender happily with the sex parts they currently have?

Because of people like you.
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DK9292 posted...

Because of people like you.

not sure what that means.

Because being a gender that doesn't align with your sex is mentally distressing
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Because life is generally easier on a person when their gender and sex correlate
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it's because society is deeply entrenched and ingrained into how gender and sex is, so you will be miserable because society won't let you be happy
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MarqueeSeries posted...

Because being a gender that doesn't align with your sex is mentally distressing

but gender is independent of sex if it is a social construct, not a biological one. The social construct can be defined/adjusted to be aligned with whatever sex someone is, no?

Unless there is some aspect of gender that is tied to biology? But that's what many people are arguing is not the case.

catboy0_0 posted...

it's because society is deeply entrenched and ingrained into how gender and sex is, so you will be miserable because society won't let you be happy

other people can't make you happy/not happy. it's about how an individual copes with their situation. It's like saying gays should go through conversion therapy because gay people are often treated like shit. that's not the right solution.

checkmate atheists
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fam fl0pix
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Fam_Fam posted...

other people can't make you happy/not happy.

this is false. humans are highly social creatures I'm fucking sick of this psychobabble myth
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There are like ten different camps on the gender/sex issues, so it's quite likely many trans people don't actually think it's as fluid as others do.

Mental illness
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I fart on all the transgender people. And all the transphobes. And everyone who has nothing to do with the transgender issue. Basically I just fart on literally everyone.
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catboy0_0 posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

other people can't make you happy/not happy.

this is false. humans are highly social creatures I'm fucking sick of this psychobabble myth

where/how are feelings processed exactly? to what extent are these processes done in places that are controlled by people other than the person feeling those feelings?

Fam_Fam posted...

to get hormones/bodies like people of the opposite sex.

if gender is entirely social, why can't they be that gender happily with the sex parts they currently have?

I see you don't show much understanding of that which you ask. The transition isn't to change gender, and thusly is not limited to your ideal of a construct. The transition is to change the body to the gender that the trans person already identifies with, so the transition itself is a very physical event.
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catboy0_0 posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

other people can't make you happy/not happy.

this is false. humans are highly social creatures I'm fucking sick of this psychobabble myth

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Taking that it's a social construct for the sake of discussion, why should that impact someone's desire to go through transition?

Fam_Fam posted...

catboy0_0 posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

other people can't make you happy/not happy.

this is false. humans are highly social creatures I'm fucking sick of this psychobabble myth

where/how are feelings processed exactly? to what extent are these processes done in places that are controlled by people other than the person feeling those feelings?

You're, quite possibly, a sociopath if you are truly unaffected by other people.
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Fam_Fam posted...

MarqueeSeries posted...

Because being a gender that doesn't align with your sex is mentally distressing

but gender is independent of sex if it is a social construct, not a biological one. The social construct can be defined/adjusted to be aligned with whatever sex someone is, no?

Unless there is some aspect of gender that is tied to biology? But that's what many people are arguing is not the case.

Just because something is a fabricated social construct doesn't mean you get to ignore it. It's still there. So to fit within the social construct you have to transition.
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Sylph posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

to get hormones/bodies like people of the opposite sex.

if gender is entirely social, why can't they be that gender happily with the sex parts they currently have?

I see you don't show much understanding of that which you ask. The transition isn't to change gender, and thusly is not limited to your ideal of a construct. The transition is to change the body to the gender that the trans person already identifies with, so the transition itself is a very physical event.

but gender is not physical, its social, so there is no male or female "body". if its purely social, then its not linked to the physical. if its physical, then its not entirely a social construct, but one that has social parts and a biological part as well (which makes sense to me, but people don't seem to think this is the case?)

Tyranthraxus posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

MarqueeSeries posted...

Because being a gender that doesn't align with your sex is mentally distressing

but gender is independent of sex if it is a social construct, not a biological one. The social construct can be defined/adjusted to be aligned with whatever sex someone is, no?

Unless there is some aspect of gender that is tied to biology? But that's what many people are arguing is not the case.

Just because something is a fabricated social construct doesn't mean you get to ignore it. It's still there. So to fit within the social construct you have to transition.

so is the construct about social norms and such, or is it physical (i.e. linked to sex). in other words, is there gender independent of sex, or are they linked?

Fam_Fam posted...

Sylph posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

to get hormones/bodies like people of the opposite sex.

if gender is entirely social, why can't they be that gender happily with the sex parts they currently have?

I see you don't show much understanding of that which you ask. The transition isn't to change gender, and thusly is not limited to your ideal of a construct. The transition is to change the body to the gender that the trans person already identifies with, so the transition itself is a very physical event.

but gender is not physical, its social, so there is no male or female "body". if its purely social, then its not linked to the physical. if its physical, then its not entirely a social construct, but one that has social parts and a biological part as well (which makes sense to me, but people don't seem to think this is the case?)

Not even the most extreme people in the gender-as-social-construct camp think sex doesn't exist.

Not all transgender people do though.

And those that do physically transition have their own reason for doing so.
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I mean, yeah, it's no secret that the very existence of trans people contradicts a lot of what appears to be true about gender and feminism. All I can say is that they're free to do whatever they want for whatever reason they want and there's a long way to go before that's true.
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Fam_Fam posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

MarqueeSeries posted...

Because being a gender that doesn't align with your sex is mentally distressing

but gender is independent of sex if it is a social construct, not a biological one. The social construct can be defined/adjusted to be aligned with whatever sex someone is, no?

Unless there is some aspect of gender that is tied to biology? But that's what many people are arguing is not the case.

Just because something is a fabricated social construct doesn't mean you get to ignore it. It's still there. So to fit within the social construct you have to transition.

so is the construct about social norms and such, or is it physical (i.e. linked to sex). in other words, is there gender independent of sex, or are they linked?

They are independent of one another. There's a lot of transgendered people who never bother to change their sex.
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Fam_Fam posted...

MarqueeSeries posted...

Because being a gender that doesn't align with your sex is mentally distressing

but gender is independent of sex if it is a social construct, not a biological one. The social construct can be defined/adjusted to be aligned with whatever sex someone is, no?

Unless there is some aspect of gender that is tied to biology? But that's what many people are arguing is not the case.

Why do you think that it's mutually exclusive? Can't factors be both biological and socially influenced?

Also, why do you assume that the brain and the body are going to always agree on the proper gender? Your assumption is entirely based on the idea that your entire body and all organs always work with the same 'direction', but we have countless diseases and illnesses that are the direct result of different organs running contrary to one another.

SquirrelyDan posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

catboy0_0 posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

other people can't make you happy/not happy.

this is false. humans are highly social creatures I'm fucking sick of this psychobabble myth

where/how are feelings processed exactly? to what extent are these processes done in places that are controlled by people other than the person feeling those feelings?

You're, quite possibly, a sociopath if you are truly unaffected by other people.

odds are he is affected by other people but likes to feel cool and edgy
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Fam_Fam posted...

to get hormones/bodies like people of the opposite sex.

if gender is entirely social, why can't they be that gender happily with the sex parts they currently have?

If someone is physically male and has the requisite biological parts to be male, while also mentally being male then chances are they're going to be quite content with this. They are going to be able to more easily fit into the social framework of what being male is perceived to be, their identity of themselves and how they are perceived by others all matches up.

If someone is physically male but mentally female then there is an initial disconnect. They can seek to try and change or adjust their physical biology to more resemble - though not actually be what they are mentally with varying levels of success and challenge. If every time you went for a piss and you were reminded of this disconnect then that's going to be pretty bad for your mental well-being. If you can approximate something closer to what you feel you are then that could help your perception of yourself.

They can also seek to change things on a chemical level hormonally which is going to have a much more profound effect as it changes the body, kind of a second puberty if you will. What they are perceived to be by society is going to depend on the nature of that society and how well they "pass" for what they wish to be within it on top of this.

The perceptions of the characteristics of a gender identity can change with social attitudes and definitions. You could argue that the same could even be done to biological sex - if Pluto can be a planet one day, and not another, there is the possibility that the definition of male or female could also be changed. As it stands though things are more complicated when there are disconnects between biological sex, physical characteristics, mental identification and the cultural gender definitions that are applied on top.

In short, it's people trying to get all these things to match up to who they feel they are and then somehow try to find a way to fit within the wider world on top of this.
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your conclusion is flawed because your premise is flawed.

Gender identity is not a social construct.
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