Poll of the Day > What's your stance on abortion?

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DrCidd
12/06/18 9:34:23 AM
51
ASlaveObeys posted...
Did you just watch that change my mind about abortion, because you're just mimicking his arguments.


Pretty sure I've never seen "change my mind" and the only argument I've recycled is the Ben Shapiro point about being in a coma.
---
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dancer62
12/06/18 10:10:32 AM
52
Men don't deserve an opinion.

No mother or grandmother who loves her daughter/granddaughter could ever be against abortion.

Most of these clowns debating the issue weren't women in the dark days of the 1950s and 60s, where the choices were black market illegal abortion or carrying the damn thing to term. Lots of women died of infection or botched D&Cs.

If men got pregnant, there wouldn't be any question. The whole issue is just men trying to control women.

And, yes, I'm angry! We dealt with the issue 45 years ago, there's no reason to bring it up again.
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LinkPizza
12/06/18 11:20:46 AM
53
DrCidd posted...
InhumaneRaider posted...
Yes. I say this out of respect for Woman's bodily rights (meaning, fuck off, you shouldn't be able to tell anyone what to do with their body)

And yes, this is going to be contradictory, population control needs to be a thing.


Birth control and contraceptives are a thing.

Neither are 100%...
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DrCidd
12/06/18 11:28:42 AM
54
LinkPizza posted...
Neither are 100%...


And driving down the street, regardless of how careful you are, doesn't guarantee that you won't accidentally kill someone. You should still be held accountable for your own actions though.
---
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LinkPizza
12/06/18 11:40:17 AM
55
DrCidd posted...
LinkPizza posted...
Neither are 100%...


And driving down the street, regardless of how careful you are, doesn't guarantee that you won't accidentally kill someone. You should still be held accountable for your own actions though.

Youre right about that. But those are still different. I dont see how any of your analogies are making sense... And that seems to be all youre doing. Making analogies that dont always work...
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DrCidd
12/06/18 11:56:03 AM
56
If you want to be adult enough to have sex, you should be adult enough to raise the child that comes from it.

You know what is 100% effective? Abstinence.

The analogy works because if you have an accident in a car and somebody dies, you pay the consequences.
If you have an accident in the bedroom that results in a new life being formed, you pay the consequences and you raise that child.
---
I used to think my brain was my favorite part of my body...Then I realized what was making me think that!
InhumaneRaider
12/06/18 11:57:02 AM
57
DrCidd posted...
If you want to be adult enough to have sex, you should be adult enough to raise the child that comes from it.

....

This is some Steven Crowder type obnoxiousness.
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LinkPizza
12/06/18 11:58:17 AM
58
DrCidd posted...
If you want to be adult enough to have sex, you should be adult enough to raise the child that comes from it.

Thats actually a dumb approach, but whatever. Its not always that simple. I knew a family that was ready to have a child and planned for it. But while they were pregnant, they found out the child had spina bifida. And they had to choose whether to have the baby or not. So, when it comes to illnesses, I think it should also be a suitable approach.
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DrCidd
12/06/18 12:01:46 PM
59
You know what's obnoxious? Complete disregard for human life.

How would you feel if your parents told you they greatly considered getting an abortion with you?
Or that they would have had they the means to do so?
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be happy with that idea, would you?
I bet you'd be pretty damned glad they didn't murder you.
---
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LinkPizza
12/06/18 12:02:53 PM
60
DrCidd posted...
You know what's obnoxious? Complete disregard for human life.

How would you feel if your parents told you they greatly considered getting an abortion with you?
Or that they would have had they the means to do so?
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be happy with that idea, would you?
I bet you'd be pretty damned glad they didn't murder you.

I wouldnt care. The reason is becuase I am here. Had they got one, I wouldnt care because I wouldnt have been born st all. So, I wouldnt have any feelings on the matter or at all. I still dont see you point.
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DrCidd
12/06/18 12:07:05 PM
61
LinkPizza posted...
But while they were pregnant, they found out the child had spina bifida.


See, now there's a point that's not pure emotion or opinion.
I can understand that the life would not be fruitful in this case for the child. I'm actually not sure where I stand in this scenario, 100%. But you've at least got me thinking. Maybe this would be a potential case for euthanasia in the womb. Similar to putting down a horse that can no longer stand. It becomes the humane thing to do at this point.
But what if it's an otherwise healthy baby?
---
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darkknight109
12/06/18 12:11:53 PM
62
I hate polls like this that paint it as a yes/no black-and-white question. Like you're either for every abortion, under all circumstances, with no restrictions, or you're in favour of banning them all, regardless of circumstances. There are shades of grey here.
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DrCidd
12/06/18 12:13:26 PM
63
darkknight109 posted...
I hate polls like this that paint it as a yes/no black-and-white question. Like you're either for every abortion, under all circumstances, with no restrictions, or you're in favour of banning them all, regardless of circumstances. There are shades of grey here.


There aren't only 2 options. Since you're so concerned about the choices, though. Let's hear your thoughts on the topic at hand, rather than your thoughts on the poll choices.
---
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InhumaneRaider
12/06/18 12:13:50 PM
64
So, poor people shouldn't have sex? So they can't bring a child into world and into poverty?

Imagine trying to tell people what to do. No one cares about your morals, you're literally telling people what to do with their body. Even with contraception, accidents happen. You're punishing people for a mistake.
---
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darkknight109
12/06/18 12:16:17 PM
65
DrCidd posted...
How would you feel if your parents told you they greatly considered getting an abortion with you?
Or that they would have had they the means to do so?
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be happy with that idea, would you?
I bet you'd be pretty damned glad they didn't murder you.

Personally, I wouldn't care.

Like... why would I? Whether they were thinking about aborting me or not, they decided not to and we went on to have a great relationship. There is absolutely zero reason for me to hold that against them.

DrCidd posted...
You know what's obnoxious? Complete disregard for human life.

Do you cry every time you wake up, knowing that your body has killed a collection of cells inside your stomach, on your skin, and a variety of other places? Because that's in essence what a fetus/embryo is for the first few months of development - a collection of cells, smaller than the palm of your hand, that don't even have a developed nervous system.
---
Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster.
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LinkPizza
12/06/18 12:17:25 PM
66
DrCidd posted...
LinkPizza posted...
But while they were pregnant, they found out the child had spina bifida.


See, now there's a point that's not pure emotion or opinion.
I can understand that the life would not be fruitful in this case for the child. I'm actually not sure where I stand in this scenario, 100%. But you've at least got me thinking. Maybe this would be a potential case for euthanasia in the womb. Similar to putting down a horse that can no longer stand. It becomes the humane thing to do at this point.
But what if it's an otherwise healthy baby?

If it was a healthy baby, they would have had it because they were trying to have a baby. For them, it works. For others, it may not.

(and for the record, they did have the baby)

Some people want to have a baby later in life, so they use birth control and contraceptives so that they dont get pregnant too early. It doesnt always work. They could have the baby. But that could end up badly for the whole family. Especially if they had the baby unprepared with no way to get all the supplies theyll need. Or have the amount of time they need. All kind of things can go wrong. It suck thag two adults who wanted to have a family and toon precautions to have a baby are now forced to start a family early unprepared. And that could even cause things in the relationship to go wrong.
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darkknight109
12/06/18 12:18:51 PM
67
DrCidd posted...
There aren't only 2 options

Oh, yes, pardon me, you added a third to account for your own personal preferences. Of course, no mention of rape, no mention of incest, no mention of time limits, no mention of health of the fetus/child, no mention of finances, or healthcare, or the availability of contraceptives, all of which are worth considering when discussing the morality and legality of abortion.

Do you not see the problem yet and why boiling this down to a yes/no question is ridiculously oversimplistic for a topic as complicated as abortion?
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Nichtcrawler X
12/06/18 12:20:48 PM
68
DrCidd posted...
At least in the case that she puts it up for adoption she isn't committing legal murder.


That's an oxymoron.
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Mead
12/06/18 12:20:51 PM
69
DrCidd posted...
If you want to be adult enough to have sex, you should be adult enough to raise the child that comes from it.

You know what is 100% effective? Abstinence.

The analogy works because if you have an accident in a car and somebody dies, you pay the consequences.
If you have an accident in the bedroom that results in a new life being formed, you pay the consequences and you raise that child.


This is the stupidest fucking view
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Nichtcrawler X
12/06/18 12:27:36 PM
70
DrCidd posted...
If you have an accident in the bedroom that results in a new life being formed, you pay the consequences and you raise that child.


And the psychological toll of that abortion is not a consequence?
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Muscles
12/06/18 12:30:12 PM
71
My view is that it's none of my business if someone wants to get an abortion
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DrCidd
12/06/18 12:31:48 PM
72
So here's a thought experiment.

Let's say there's a woman who's within the legal range (or for the sake of argument, the range you feel makes abortion okay). She is on her way to the abortion clinic to have the pregnancy terminated and a man mugs her. Which results in her having a miscarriage.

How do you charge him in the court of law?
---
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CacciatoPart3
12/06/18 12:32:26 PM
73
Mead posted...
DrCidd posted...
If you want to be adult enough to have sex, you should be adult enough to raise the child that comes from it.

You know what is 100% effective? Abstinence.

The analogy works because if you have an accident in a car and somebody dies, you pay the consequences.
If you have an accident in the bedroom that results in a new life being formed, you pay the consequences and you raise that child.


This is the stupidest fucking view

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ASlaveObeys
12/06/18 12:39:55 PM
74
DrCidd posted...
ASlaveObeys posted...
Did you just watch that change my mind about abortion, because you're just mimicking his arguments.


Pretty sure I've never seen "change my mind" and the only argument I've recycled is the Ben Shapiro point about being in a coma.

You're lying very poorly. You're literally directly quoting him multiple times and sometimes out of context.
darkknight109
12/06/18 12:40:22 PM
75
DrCidd posted...
So here's a thought experiment.

Let's say there's a woman who's within the legal range (or for the sake of argument, the range you feel makes abortion okay). She is on her way to the abortion clinic to have the pregnancy terminated and a man mugs her. Which results in her having a miscarriage.

How do you charge him in the court of law?

I wouldn't really have a choice - I would be bound by the laws of whatever jurisdiction this occurred in. Some areas do have additional penalties for crimes that result in a terminated pregnancy.

Pretending that I could charge it however I wanted to, however, if it's occurring in the timeframe you're suggesting, I would simply charge him the same way I would if he'd attacked her and broken her arm. At that point the fetus is part of her body, not an independent life, so it would be some combination of theft and battery charges.
---
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Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror!
Kyuubi4269
12/06/18 12:44:58 PM
76
I think it should be allowed, but only the first is fully subsidised, with every successive abortion costing more and more. When they reach full price, they start getting fines to continue the price hike indefinitely.
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darkknight109
12/06/18 12:45:41 PM
77
DrCidd posted...
You know what is 100% effective? Abstinence.

The analogy works because if you have an accident in a car and somebody dies, you pay the consequences.
If you have an accident in the bedroom that results in a new life being formed, you pay the consequences and you raise that child.

Not necessarily true. If someone rear-ends you (insert your own sex joke here), or something else happens outside of your control (like an accident initially caused by an animal that results in a multi-vehicle crash), you may be found not liable for damage because the accident could not be reasonably avoided.

If someone is using contraception, they are making a good faith attempt to prevent a pregnancy, the same way someone driving within the bounds of the law is making a good faith effort not to get in a car accident. If circumstances beyond their control - like a broken condom or faulty pill - result in a pregnancy, why should they be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term and shoulder the financial costs associated with the same?

No one recommends avoiding road accidents by *not driving*, they recommend avoiding accidents by being safe and if you follow the guidelines, you're typically not held responsible if an accident does occur. Since you like this analogy so much, the same standards should apply to sex, no?
---
Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster.
Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror!
GeoMaggs
12/06/18 12:59:37 PM
78
DrCidd posted...
InhumaneRaider posted...
Yes. I say this out of respect for Woman's bodily rights (meaning, fuck off, you shouldn't be able to tell anyone what to do with their body)

And yes, this is going to be contradictory, population control needs to be a thing.


Birth control and contraceptives are a thing.

Right, and most (all?) major religious groups frown on these too.

I say pro-lifers be legally required to adopt at least one child, or give up their first born automatically for adoption. Lead by example, and all. . .
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DrCidd
12/06/18 1:00:55 PM
79
darkknight109 posted...
No one recommends avoiding road accidents by *not driving*, they recommend avoiding accidents by being safe and if you follow the guidelines, you're typically not held responsible if an accident does occur. Since you like this analogy so much, the same standards should apply to sex, no?


That's a fair point that I hadn't previously considered. But does it justify abortion?
---
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CacciatoPart3
12/06/18 1:13:12 PM
80
ASlaveObeys posted...
DrCidd posted...
ASlaveObeys posted...
Did you just watch that change my mind about abortion, because you're just mimicking his arguments.


Pretty sure I've never seen "change my mind" and the only argument I've recycled is the Ben Shapiro point about being in a coma.

You're lying very poorly. You're literally directly quoting him multiple times and sometimes out of context.

TC please respond to these heinous accusations.
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darkknight109
12/06/18 1:18:50 PM
81
GeoMaggs posted...
Right, and most (all?) major religious groups frown on these too.

I wouldn't say most or all do. The ones that do tend to be large, though, so that gives them outsize influence.

GeoMaggs posted...
I say pro-lifers be legally required to adopt at least one child

That would be challenging, given that in most first-world countries there are actually more families wanting to adopt than their are kids to be adopted, and most of the children that are up for adoption have special needs - physical, cognitive, or behavioural - that require highly focused and specialized care that many families simply aren't equipped to give.

In fact, changing attitudes around parenting and abortion are one of the exact reasons for that. The biggest source of children being placed for adoption used to be unwed mothers (back when that was a major social stigma) being pressured to give up their babies and couples that had unwanted children because they had no access to contraceptives and/or abortion. With contraceptives now common and single parenting now accepted (as well as increased numbers of potential parents due to same-sex relations, infertility, or single prospective parents), the number of unwanted children has plummeted, so there are already multi-year waiting lists for adopting a (healthy) child in most first-world nations.

Speaking as someone who's already going through the (lengthy) process of adoption-prep, I'd rather not flood the system with any more "competition".

DrCidd posted...
That's a fair point that I hadn't previously considered. But does it justify abortion?

Obviously that's a matter of personal opinion. I would say yes, because I do not believe a fetus constitutes an independent lifeform that early in its development. It is, essentially, an organ of the mother at that point - part of her body, not much different than her liver (and it would be just as dead if it was removed from her). Once the fetus develops a central nervous system and develops to the point where it can exist independent of the mother, then it's a different story, at least in my eyes.

Everyone will draw that line in a different spot, though.
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DrCidd
12/06/18 1:19:34 PM
82
CacciatoPart3 posted...
TC please respond to these heinous accusations.


I already have. The only person I've directly quoted is Ben Shapiro. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't even verbatim.

Also, I'm just gonna say. I used to be pro-choice until I had children of my own. Twins even. So maybe I'm biased. But I couldn't imagine snuffing them out when they were what most would consider a "cluster of cells". I don't see what gives me the right.
---
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LinkPizza
12/06/18 1:23:21 PM
83
DrCidd posted...
CacciatoPart3 posted...
TC please respond to these heinous accusations.


I already have. The only person I've directly quoted is Ben Shapiro. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't even verbatim.

One quote would be fine. But he said that you quoted the movie multiple times. Its harder to believe you would say basically the same exact thing multiple times... Especially if its also true that its out of context sometimes...
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Krazy_Kirby
12/06/18 1:26:45 PM
84
not murder if they can't even be born yet. murder is for people, at that stage they are not a person
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LinkPizza
12/06/18 1:27:04 PM
85
DrCidd posted...
That's a fair point that I hadn't previously considered. But does it justify abortion?

It depends. For some, nothing justifies it. But for others, certain things do. And for even others, you can get one when you decide its worth it. Just because you dont think something justifies an abortion doesnt mean you right or wrong. You just dont agree with it. Others will disagree and decide that its justified.
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DoubleOSnake
12/06/18 1:28:14 PM
86
no cause most of them are pro birth not pro life. george carlin---"they care all about the unborn but once you're born you're shit out of luck"
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dedbus
12/06/18 1:30:36 PM
87
Rising tiger dragon stance usually gets the job done.
CacciatoPart3
12/06/18 1:35:56 PM
88
DrCidd posted...
CacciatoPart3 posted...
TC please respond to these heinous accusations.


I already have. The only person I've directly quoted is Ben Shapiro. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't even verbatim.

Also, I'm just gonna say. I used to be pro-choice until I had children of my own. Twins even. So maybe I'm biased. But I couldn't imagine snuffing them out when they were what most would consider a "cluster of cells". I don't see what gives me the right.

Oh no. Youve procreated.
---
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Pxwerable
12/06/18 1:42:27 PM
89
Abortion to me is acceptable at an extent. Like if a woman happened to get raped then she should have the choice to have abortion without consent of the father if she chooses to.There are legal risks to doing so but it does vary from state to state. Its all about the reason why abortion should be allowed.
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GasMonkey
12/06/18 1:50:36 PM
90
VeeVees posted...
100% of babies should be aborted

---
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Lokarin
12/06/18 2:09:13 PM
91
I'm for abortions up to about 8 months... since at that point it would be easier to birth the baby to kill it than to kill it then remove it.
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LinkPizza
12/06/18 2:25:24 PM
92
DrCidd posted...
CacciatoPart3 posted...
TC please respond to these heinous accusations.


I already have. The only person I've directly quoted is Ben Shapiro. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't even verbatim.

Also, I'm just gonna say. I used to be pro-choice until I had children of my own. Twins even. So maybe I'm biased. But I couldn't imagine snuffing them out when they were what most would consider a "cluster of cells". I don't see what gives me the right.

But that may be because they are already born and are people now.
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Revelation34
12/06/18 3:15:17 PM
93
DrCidd posted...
Also, I'm just gonna say. I used to be pro-choice until I had children of my own. Twins even. So maybe I'm biased. But I couldn't imagine snuffing them out when they were what most would consider a "cluster of cells". I don't see what gives me the right.


Because everybody who has children has suddenly become pro-life after all.
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Bugmeat
12/06/18 3:19:24 PM
94
I have no problem with abortion. I see nothing wrong with ending an unwanted pregnancy. I'm not sure where I'd draw the cutoff line though.
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Kungfu Kenobi
12/06/18 8:22:49 PM
95
InhumaneRaider posted...
Zangulus posted...
Kungfu Kenobi posted...
The cut-off point for voluntary abortion should be 21 months from conception.
Kungfu Kenobi posted...
point for voluntary abortion should be 21 months from
Kungfu Kenobi posted...
abortion should be 21 months
Kungfu Kenobi posted...
21 months

LMAO, I'm fucking dead. I was reading that and I knew something seemed off.

@Kungfu_Kenobi


@InhumaneRaider

What seems to be the problem?
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Shanty_Irishman
12/06/18 9:09:30 PM
96
Safe, legal, and rare
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ClarkDuke
12/07/18 1:20:01 AM
97
DrCidd posted...
CacciatoPart3 posted...
TC please respond to these heinous accusations.


I already have. The only person I've directly quoted is Ben Shapiro. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't even verbatim.

Also, I'm just gonna say. I used to be pro-choice until I had children of my own. Twins even. So maybe I'm biased. But I couldn't imagine snuffing them out when they were what most would consider a "cluster of cells". I don't see what gives me the right.

You could offer to raise all the unwanted babies you want teenagers to have, ok?
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zebatov
12/07/18 1:59:38 AM
98
As far back as you can't remember, that's the point.
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