Current Events > Baby It's Cold Outside pulled by radio station, citing #MeToo

(+) Yeah! (+)

Skye Reynolds posted...

Do people wake up in the morning and say "I'm going to be offended today"?

"I don't know what's gonna happen, but something's going to offend me and it's gonna be that thing's fault."

you should make a seperate topic. lots of full time victims on ce can help with this question.
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UnholyMudcrab posted...

Fuck yeah, time for another topic about this

It's that time of year again!
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ClunkerSlim posted...

Honestly, good. It's a catchy song, but it's dark as fuck if you really listen to the lyrics. Especially the bit about, "Say what's in this drink?" Did this dude just Cosby a chick in a Christmas song?

Maybe if you have some kind of disorder that makes it hard for you to pick up on social cues.

I can only assume the people who think her lyrics are sincerely someone trying to leave a situation are the same people who can't detect sarcasm and have a hard time telling if people are joking with them.
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shockthemonkey posted...

10/10
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Kajagogo posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

Do people wake up in the morning and say "I'm going to be offended today"?

"I don't know what's gonna happen, but something's going to offend me and it's gonna be that thing's fault."

Look, it is not fucking rape culture. It is a woman in the 1940s facetiously joking about her drink being too strong. Lots of people TO. THIS. DAY. will have a little bit to drink and jokingly blame the alcohol for something they do; whether intimate in nature or not. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with rape. How long is it gonna be before people start saying that Rocky raped Adrian because she was nervous during their first kiss?

so you dont think giving someone too much alcohol in order to induce a sexual encounter after they are trying to leave is wrong? I agree it still happens to this day.

She's not trying to leave. She wants to stay.

She WANTS to stay.

This. In that time "what's in this drink" was apparently intended as a joke whether they're drinking alcohol or not. It's a song about a woman who wants to stay in a time when women who stay unchaperoned at a single man's house were considered to be one of THOSE women. She's decided she wants to stay at the beginning of the song but because of society at the time she has to put up a token resistance. By the end of the song they agree it's too cold outside so she's staying.
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She fucked him
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this just boils down to whether parents want to explain the past or not

Skye Reynolds posted...

Look, it is not f***ing rape culture. It is a woman in the 1940s facetiously joking about her drink being too strong. Lots of people TO. THIS. DAY. will have a little bit to drink and jokingly blame the alcohol for something they do; whether intimate in nature or not. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with rape. How long is it gonna be before people start saying that Rocky raped Adrian because she was nervous during their first kiss?

Rocky was 100% rapey. He Even blocks her exit.
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DarthDemented posted...

Kajagogo posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

Do people wake up in the morning and say "I'm going to be offended today"?

"I don't know what's gonna happen, but something's going to offend me and it's gonna be that thing's fault."

Look, it is not fucking rape culture. It is a woman in the 1940s facetiously joking about her drink being too strong. Lots of people TO. THIS. DAY. will have a little bit to drink and jokingly blame the alcohol for something they do; whether intimate in nature or not. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with rape. How long is it gonna be before people start saying that Rocky raped Adrian because she was nervous during their first kiss?

so you dont think giving someone too much alcohol in order to induce a sexual encounter after they are trying to leave is wrong? I agree it still happens to this day.

She's not trying to leave. She wants to stay.

She WANTS to stay.

This. In that time "what's in this drink" was apparently intended as a joke whether they're drinking alcohol or not. It's a song about a woman who wants to stay in a time when women who stay unchaperoned at a single man's house were considered to be one of THOSE women. She's decided she wants to stay at the beginning of the song but because of society at the time she has to put up a token resistance. By the end of the song they agree it's too cold outside so she's staying.

maybe, maybe not. the key is that SHE decides if she wants to stay or not, so, if she's saying she wants to go, let her go. if she doesn't want to leave, she won't. and if she does leave, then she didn't really want to stay in the first place.

the issue is that men seem to find it to be a negotiation, where they can convince the women to stay. Women often do, and then they feel pressured/coerced into it. It's easier to just say yes instead of dealing with the potential danger of saying no. That's a lot of what we are seeing now. Sexual assaults very often boil down to these situations. It's not some creep holding someone down. It's an attitude that consent is up for negotiation and that its fair game if you can wear someone down into saying yes.

And i'm not saying that's wrong, but I'm pointing out why we have the issues we have now. Men and women very often are not seeing this the same way.

Fam_Fam posted...

Women often do, and then they feel pressured/coerced into it. It's easier to just say yes instead of dealing with the potential danger of saying no.

Ah so even when they consent maybe they're really not consenting, at least in current year.
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Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Women often do, and then they feel pressured/coerced into it. It's easier to just say yes instead of dealing with the potential danger of saying no.

Ah so even when they consent maybe they're really not consenting, at least in current year.

yes, that's what's going on. sometimes people say yes to doing things they don't actually want to do. because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no.

they should not do that, and I think they would avoid some of these situations if they just said no. unfortunately, they sometimes get into other bad situations when they do say no. this is a truth that causes this behavior. for many, it's the lesser of two evils kind of situation.

cool more pandering to the minority to the detriment of the majority
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TwoDoorPunkCab posted...

cool more pandering to the minority to the detriment of the majority

what detriment? people can hear the song anytime they want.

I often wonder how an "appropriate" casual sexual encounter nowadays looks. You see people joke about having a contract in place but I'm actually thinking this is a reality

I can comfortably say every time I've had sex with a girl it has been 100% consensual...but that's not to say I didn't use every trick in the book to get them in bed...a family member dying, "I just want to make out a little", hell, I've even used the weather as a reason for a girl to stay over

Was I an asshole? Sure...but it's obvious when a woman wants you to stop and I have never crossed that line. I'm starting to wonder would I be in trouble if someone #metoo'd me...
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Fam_Fam posted...

Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Women often do, and then they feel pressured/coerced into it. It's easier to just say yes instead of dealing with the potential danger of saying no.

Ah so even when they consent maybe they're really not consenting, at least in current year.

yes, that's what's going on. sometimes people say yes to doing things they don't actually want to do. because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no.

they should not do that, and I think they would avoid some of these situations if they just said no. unfortunately, they sometimes get into other bad situations when they do say no. this is a truth that causes this behavior. for many, it's the lesser of two evils kind of situation.

"because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no."

Sounds like what you're describing there is coercion and that is illegal but you're muddying the waters by conflating that with normal behavior where it's understood that adult women can make decisions for themselves. Coercion is one thing, consent is another.
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Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Women often do, and then they feel pressured/coerced into it. It's easier to just say yes instead of dealing with the potential danger of saying no.

Ah so even when they consent maybe they're really not consenting, at least in current year.

yes, that's what's going on. sometimes people say yes to doing things they don't actually want to do. because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no.

they should not do that, and I think they would avoid some of these situations if they just said no. unfortunately, they sometimes get into other bad situations when they do say no. this is a truth that causes this behavior. for many, it's the lesser of two evils kind of situation.

"because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no."

Sounds like what you're describing there is coercion and that is illegal but you're muddying the waters by conflating that with normal behavior where it's understood that adult women can make decisions for themselves. Coercion is one thing, consent is another.

here's the issue. there are "normal behaviors" that women are uncomfortable with, and which leads some women to feel pressured into giving consent, sometimes for their own safety.

12 days of christmas should be gone as it promotes slavery. Giving the gift of people such as maids a milking and pipers piping? Shameful.
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Fam_Fam posted...

Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Women often do, and then they feel pressured/coerced into it. It's easier to just say yes instead of dealing with the potential danger of saying no.

Ah so even when they consent maybe they're really not consenting, at least in current year.

yes, that's what's going on. sometimes people say yes to doing things they don't actually want to do. because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no.

they should not do that, and I think they would avoid some of these situations if they just said no. unfortunately, they sometimes get into other bad situations when they do say no. this is a truth that causes this behavior. for many, it's the lesser of two evils kind of situation.

"because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no."

Sounds like what you're describing there is coercion and that is illegal but you're muddying the waters by conflating that with normal behavior where it's understood that adult women can make decisions for themselves. Coercion is one thing, consent is another.

here's the issue. there are "normal behaviors" that women are uncomfortable with, and which leads some women to feel pressured into giving consent, sometimes for their own safety.

You're still conflating them. Persuasion, seduction =/= coercion. Come-ons and sexual temptation by their very nature involve some amount of pressure. Attempting to persuade is pressure by definition but there's hardly anything wrong with persuasion.

I just realized that the "feel pressured" rhetoric sounds just like the anti-drug campaigns where any person who decided to try something was described as being "pressured into it" and a victim of "peer pressure". The main gist was if you tried something you were pressured into it and a victim. The rhetoric's been repackaged for a different moral panic.
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Song is empowering to women she's scared of being slutshamed by her family but exercises her sexual independence by staying to get boned.
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Fam_Fam posted...

DarthDemented posted...

Kajagogo posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

Do people wake up in the morning and say "I'm going to be offended today"?

"I don't know what's gonna happen, but something's going to offend me and it's gonna be that thing's fault."

Look, it is not fucking rape culture. It is a woman in the 1940s facetiously joking about her drink being too strong. Lots of people TO. THIS. DAY. will have a little bit to drink and jokingly blame the alcohol for something they do; whether intimate in nature or not. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with rape. How long is it gonna be before people start saying that Rocky raped Adrian because she was nervous during their first kiss?

so you dont think giving someone too much alcohol in order to induce a sexual encounter after they are trying to leave is wrong? I agree it still happens to this day.

She's not trying to leave. She wants to stay.

She WANTS to stay.

This. In that time "what's in this drink" was apparently intended as a joke whether they're drinking alcohol or not. It's a song about a woman who wants to stay in a time when women who stay unchaperoned at a single man's house were considered to be one of THOSE women. She's decided she wants to stay at the beginning of the song but because of society at the time she has to put up a token resistance. By the end of the song they agree it's too cold outside so she's staying.

maybe, maybe not. the key is that SHE decides if she wants to stay or not, so, if she's saying she wants to go, let her go. if she doesn't want to leave, she won't. and if she does leave, then she didn't really want to stay in the first place.

the issue is that men seem to find it to be a negotiation, where they can convince the women to stay. Women often do, and then they feel pressured/coerced into it. It's easier to just say yes instead of dealing with the potential danger of saying no. That's a lot of what we are seeing now. Sexual assaults very often boil down to these situations. It's not some creep holding someone down. It's an attitude that consent is up for negotiation and that its fair game if you can wear someone down into saying yes.

And i'm not saying that's wrong, but I'm pointing out why we have the issues we have now. Men and women very often are not seeing this the same way.

If you listen to the lyrics it's actually a playful conversation between the two. Kinda like a "I want to stay but what would everyone think?" The whole it's cold outside thing would be considered a noble gesture on his part. Hell they could take it further by saying he let her have his bed while he slept on the couch, a spare bedroom, or on the floor in a separate part of his house when they probably just stayed up all night next the fire talking, just cuddled till they fell asleep, or just got down and dirty. In those times a woman had to appear uninterested otherwise she was branded a slut and was the town pariah and a disappointment to her family. Yes it was a fucked time. Not like today where a woman can say let's fuck and no one thinks anything of it.
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Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Funbazooka posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Women often do, and then they feel pressured/coerced into it. It's easier to just say yes instead of dealing with the potential danger of saying no.

Ah so even when they consent maybe they're really not consenting, at least in current year.

yes, that's what's going on. sometimes people say yes to doing things they don't actually want to do. because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no.

they should not do that, and I think they would avoid some of these situations if they just said no. unfortunately, they sometimes get into other bad situations when they do say no. this is a truth that causes this behavior. for many, it's the lesser of two evils kind of situation.

"because sometimes very bad things happen to them when they say no."

Sounds like what you're describing there is coercion and that is illegal but you're muddying the waters by conflating that with normal behavior where it's understood that adult women can make decisions for themselves. Coercion is one thing, consent is another.

here's the issue. there are "normal behaviors" that women are uncomfortable with, and which leads some women to feel pressured into giving consent, sometimes for their own safety.

You're still conflating them. Persuasion, seduction =/= coercion. Come-ons and sexual temptation by their very nature involve some amount of pressure. Attempting to persuade is pressure by definition but there's hardly anything wrong with persuasion.

I just realized that the "feel pressured" rhetoric sounds just like the anti-drug campaigns where any person who decided to try something was described as being "pressured into it" and a victim of "peer pressure". The main gist was if you tried something you were pressured into it and a victim. The rhetoric's been repackaged for a different moral panic.

why is there the need to talk someone into consent? you say let the woman decide for themselves, but then are trying to manipulate the situation to change their decision.

some people are not okay with that, which is what a lot of the #metoo stuff is about. some people believe that "no means no", and that should be the end of the conversation. do you believe there's something wrong with that unambiguous approach?

BLAKUboy posted...

This song is going away, and people just need to learn to accept that. It's honestly not even a good song.

if we ban songs from the radio just because theyre bad wed be banning a lot of songs.
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Conflict posted...

Funbazooka posted...

but there's hardly anything wrong with persuasion

That's a huge yike if I haven't seen one

Why? Is seduction bad? Should people get in trouble for seduction? What are you trying to say here
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ZMythos posted...

"Last Christmas" By Wham needs to die first.

Not because it's inappropriate but because it's a terrible song.

Shut your fucking mouth.
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Conflict posted...

Idk what to tell you dude if they're not interested they're not interested

I don't disagree with that statement. Since you can't explain yourself, can't explain your kneejerk reaction of "Yikes!", then you should re-examine your own position.

Conflict posted...

Seduction wouldn't automatically make you a rapist but it evidently wouldn't work well with a lot of people, so why risk it

This discussion isn't about rape, you know that.
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Dash_Harber posted...

BLAKUboy posted...

This song is going away, and people just need to learn to accept that. It's honestly not even a good song.

This. It obviously wasn't intend to sound bad, but we have to accept that it has not aged well. I'm not sure why so many people are so aggressive about defending it anyway, other than spite.

I don't know why people are so aggressive in attacking it. It's all very silly
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