Current Events > Under HW Bush, America blew up an Iranian civilian airplane,and he said this.

(+) Yeah! (+)

DirkDiggles posted...

People need to stop taking shit bat-shit crazy people say on twitter seriously.

Here is the full video from that excerpt from the tweet.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4555921/bush-ethnic-coalition-speech

So the Iran thing is BS.

It's clear that he just loves the United States of America.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

DirkDiggles posted...

People need to stop taking shit bat-shit crazy people say on twitter seriously.

Here is the full video from that excerpt from the tweet.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4555921/bush-ethnic-coalition-speech

So the Iran thing is BS.

It's clear that he just loves the United States of America.

And he clearly showed that he loved all it's citizens by ramping up the war on drugs so he could send more people whose only crime was smoking pot to a jail cell.
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

When someone resorts to insults, you can very easily just ignore what they have to say.

Not really, despite you Trump supporters convincing yourself that that is "how debates work" because you guys grew up on the internet

"You Trump supporters"

I'll consider that an insult since I'm pretty sure you hate Donald Trump.

If not hating Donald Trump makes you a Trump supporter, then ok

Don't be embarrassed that you supported a con artist. It's okay to be wrong.

I think Donald Trump made a lot of promises during the election, but he hasn't delivered on most of them. If you want to call him a con artist then fine.

But I don't hate Donald Trump. Many other Presidents have made promises and failed to deliver on them. That famously includes HW himself, although it's not for lack of trying.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

DirkDiggles posted...

People need to stop taking shit bat-shit crazy people say on twitter seriously.

Here is the full video from that excerpt from the tweet.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4555921/bush-ethnic-coalition-speech

So the Iran thing is BS.

It's clear that he just loves the United States of America.

AT the time it was reported as his statements about the shooting.

Statement as Vice-president, during a presidential campaign function (2 Aug 1988); Bush Ethnic Coalition Speech (at 42:46). C-SPAN.org (August 2, 1988).</ref>. Some commenters at the time saw this as a reference to the Navy warship USS Vincennes having shot down Iran Air Flight 655 on July 3, although Bush did not explicitly mention the shoot-down in the speech. The quote of the week section of Newsweek (15 August 1988) The quote of the Perspectives/Overheard section of Newsweek (15 August 1988, p.15) described the quote as "George Bush, speaking to a group of Republican leaders about the accidental downing of an Iranian airliner", and in "Rally Round the Flag, Boys" by Michael Kingsley in TIME magazine (12 September 1988), the quote was described as "the Vice President's reaction to the shooting down of the Iranian civilian airliner".
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wtf is up with CE's radical leftists shitposting about Bush all of a sudden? sickening
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Well whatever the case, I stand by my opinion that he thought it was wrong (which is why he specifically said he doesn't care what the facts are) but refused to apologize for America.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

wtf is up with CE's radical leftists s***posting about Bush all of a sudden? sickening

Yeah why is he even in the news.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

wtf is up with CE's radical leftists shitposting about Bush all of a sudden? sickening

It's not shitposting when it's facts
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Damn_Underscore posted...

DirkDiggles posted...

People need to stop taking shit bat-shit crazy people say on twitter seriously.

Here is the full video from that excerpt from the tweet.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4555921/bush-ethnic-coalition-speech

So the Iran thing is BS.

It's clear that he just loves the United States of America.

There was nothing in this speech about the Airliner being shot down. The quote has been taken way out of freaking context. He was saying that He will not apologize for America because of it's values. He's trying to garner votes.

Here is the entire speech:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?3816-1/bush-ethnic-coalition-speech

But, hey. some people like to twist facts around.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

ssjevot posted...

Obama's actions in Libya, Syria, and most of the Middle East are far more worthy of being considered war crimes

Syria? wtf? No, not war crimes. No war crimes in Libya either, though the plan there turned out to be a really bad one. Still though, not a war crime. Just because you are against something doesn't make it a war crime.

You never convinced me any of those are less worthy of being considered war crimes than the Golf War. I never claimed any of them were. This topic is predicated on claiming people are war criminals not actual people convincted of war crimes. You can claim anyone or anything is a war criminal (which many do because they disagree with something as you point out). My point is that HW Bush didn't really do things that could be considered war crime level in the Gulf War that weren't matched or exceeded by Obama. The premise HW Bush was a war criminal and Obama wasn't is what the post I responded to proposed.

For the record I don't care which of them could or couldn't be convicted as war criminals because they're all people who actively worked to make the world a worse place for the benefit the US and did not care about who had to be harmed to do it.
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ssjevot posted...

For the record I don't care which of them could or couldn't be convicted as war criminals because they're all people who actively worked to make the world a worse place for the benefit the US and did not care about who had to be harmed to do it.

How did George HW Bush work to make the world a worse place? Do you think that the international community's liberation of Kuwait was a bad thing? Remember, it wasn't just the US who participated in the Gulf War, but an international coalition of a few dozen countries. It was actually the largest international military alliance to be engaged in combat since WWII.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

ssjevot posted...

For the record I don't care which of them could or couldn't be convicted as war criminals because they're all people who actively worked to make the world a worse place for the benefit the US and did not care about who had to be harmed to do it.

How did George HW Bush work to make the world a worse place? Do you think that the international community's liberation of Kuwait was a bad thing? Remember, it wasn't just the US who participated in the Gulf War, but an international coalition of a few dozen countries. It was actually the largest international military alliance to be engaged in combat since WWII.

I pointed that out in my own post, so why do you think I didn't know that? His policies, including those in Kuwait which he originally was not interested in doing anything about until convinced by the UK, were all based around advancing American interests. This is typical of most heads of states in most countries, but this is the attitude that leads to policies that actively harm countless people all over the world. Just ask yourself if the legal enviroment in the US was the same as other countries how much of our lifestyle would even be possible? We live our lives by exploiting the legal environments of other countries that we ourselves would not tolerate at home.

But again at no point in any of my posts have I said the Gulf War was unjustified and pointed out how it was less deserving of being called a war crime than many things Obama did. So if you want to justify the Gulf War more please argue with one of the many people in this topic calling him a war criminal for it instead.
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ssjevot posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

ssjevot posted...

For the record I don't care which of them could or couldn't be convicted as war criminals because they're all people who actively worked to make the world a worse place for the benefit the US and did not care about who had to be harmed to do it.

How did George HW Bush work to make the world a worse place? Do you think that the international community's liberation of Kuwait was a bad thing? Remember, it wasn't just the US who participated in the Gulf War, but an international coalition of a few dozen countries. It was actually the largest international military alliance to be engaged in combat since WWII.

I pointed that out in my own post, so why do you think I didn't know that? His policies, including those in Kuwait which he originally was not interested in doing anything about until convinced by the UK, were all based around advancing American interests. This is typical of most heads of states in most countries, but this is the attitude that leads to policies that actively harm countless people all over the world. Just ask yourself if the legal enviroment in the US was the same as other countries how much of our lifestyle would even be possible? We live our lives by exploiting the legal environments of other countries that we ourselves would not tolerate at home.

But again at no point in any of my posts have I said the Gulf War was unjustified and pointed out how it was less deserving of being called a war crime than many things Obama did. So if you want to justify the Gulf War more please argue with one of the many people in this topic calling him a war criminal for it instead.

So why do you think he made the world a worse place? Maybe the Bush admin. was a little reluctant at first with respect to the Gulf War, but ultimately they still made the decision to lead the coalition and contribute the vast majority of the troops.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say the stuff about the legal environment in the US being different from other countries and therefore allowing us to have a certain lifestyle. I don't think it's even remotely true that the average American's lifestyle is only possible because of the exploitation of other countries. That's some propagandist nonsense.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

I don't think it's even remotely true that the average American's lifestyle is only possible because of the exploitation of other countries. That's some propagandist nonsense.

Where were your clothes made?
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Antifar posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

I don't think it's even remotely true that the average American's lifestyle is only possible because of the exploitation of other countries. That's some propagandist nonsense.

Where were your clothes made?

A country that has had a rapidly increasing standard of living and average wages as it has gained access to international trade and global markets. I assume you're going for the sweatshop argument, but in reality developing countries like Bangladesh that are associated with outsourcing and this type of labor have had their standards of living dramatically improve over the past few decades. Progressives are dead wrong when they push the whole "sweatshop labor" idea in the developing world.
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Why do people act like O hospital Bomba never oversaw some shady shit?
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That's why Obama went on his apology tour.

There was no apology tour.
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creativerealms posted...

That's why Obama went on his apology tour.

There was no apology tour.

Lmao. Well, I guess you could call it something else, if you want to.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

Antifar posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

I don't think it's even remotely true that the average American's lifestyle is only possible because of the exploitation of other countries. That's some propagandist nonsense.

Where were your clothes made?

A country that has had a rapidly increasing standard of living and average wages as it has gained access to international trade and global markets. I assume you're going for the sweatshop argument, but in reality developing countries like Bangladesh that are associated with outsourcing and this type of labor have had their standards of living dramatically improve over the past few decades. Progressives are dead wrong when they push the whole "sweatshop labor" idea in the developing world.

I'm a capitalist, I think it does more to help the poor than any other system, but if you seriously think we could afford to produce the products we consume in the first world without exploiting the different legal enviroment that exists in other countries you are completely out of touch with reality. No one would make products for consumption half way around the world and ship them here if all markets were operating under the same legal environment. Economies of scale would not offset the shipping costs if labor costs were the same in the country the product is being manufactured for. The same thing happens with our plastic waste. China doesn't want it anymore and now all of sudden we don't know what to do with garbage we used to ship halfway across the world because we can't process it here economically without breaking our own environmental regulations.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

Antifar posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

I don't think it's even remotely true that the average American's lifestyle is only possible because of the exploitation of other countries. That's some propagandist nonsense.

Where were your clothes made?

A country that has had a rapidly increasing standard of living and average wages as it has gained access to international trade and global markets. I assume you're going for the sweatshop argument, but in reality developing countries like Bangladesh that are associated with outsourcing and this type of labor have had their standards of living dramatically improve over the past few decades. Progressives are dead wrong when they push the whole "sweatshop labor" idea in the developing world.

rekt

Damn_Underscore posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Someone posted this earlier.

Here is me reply

Do you think there is no context to that quote? Do you think that a WWII veteran and a person who spent his entire life in the US Government might think a certain way about the United States of America symbolically?

Do you think he's never apologized on his own behalf?

How does that make it any better?

The assumption is that HW is a horrible person, when in reality it's clear that he said that based on a principle he had about America.

"I don't care what the facts are." Obviously he knew that shooting down that plane was wrong.

The quote was given a month after the shootdown in a speech where he was discussing America's position as a beacon of liberty and democracy. He says it right after telling a story about visiting Poland and seeing thousands of cheering people.

Its also a rehash of a quote he said three months prior while on campaign:

"If I am elected president, I will never apologize for the United States. I will strengthen her and make her a beacon of freedom and liberty!"
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9 years prior, Iran had taken Americans hostage and Reagan's bravado about dealing with the hostage crisis while on the campaign trail is what got him elected. *shrug* it makes sense.
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This is why stuff like 9/11 happened, unfortunately.
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The liberals are raging again lol

Thats not even the real quote or anywhere close tot he context.
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Suddenly I'm not a liberal. wtf
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LightningAce11 posted...

This is why stuff like 9/11 happened, unfortunately.

Bin Laden wasn't even anti-US until Operation Desert Shield, if I recall correctly. So no, you're totally off. Plus that ignores the caliphate Bin Laden wanted to create that stretched from Southeast Asia to West Africa.
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RainblowDash posted...

The liberals are raging again lol

Thats not even the real quote or anywhere close tot he context.

I have highlighted how most major publications AT THE TIME pointed to be about what happen to the plane.
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cjsdowg posted...

RainblowDash posted...

The liberals are raging again lol

Thats not even the real quote or anywhere close tot he context.

I have highlighted how most major publications AT THE TIME pointed to be about what happen to the plane.

And I pointed out the actual speech where the quote originally came from. You took it way out of context.
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Damn, I've never heard of this before.
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its trolling on this board to discuss the truth and facts about US presidents. glad this topic survived.

Why are people getting so triggered by a guy after he died?
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Omnislasher posted...

its trolling on this board to discuss the truth and facts about US presidents. glad this topic survived.

TomNook20 posted...

Why are people getting so triggered by a guy after he died?

Some people are so powerless in their own lives that they get a sense of satisfaction by attacking those who can't defend themselves.
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Omnislasher posted...

its trolling on this board to discuss the truth and facts about US presidents. glad this topic survived.

Learn more history.
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Sativa_Rose posted...

Omnislasher posted...

its trolling on this board to discuss the truth and facts about US presidents. glad this topic survived.

Learn more history.

All you are is an apologist for jingoism.

Fact: The U.S. bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were completely unnecessary barbarities, and Truman and other U.S. policy planners knew it.

and Bush 1 was demonstrably a war criminal

Omnislasher posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Omnislasher posted...

its trolling on this board to discuss the truth and facts about US presidents. glad this topic survived.

Learn more history.

All you are is an apologist for jingoism.

Fact: The U.S. bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were completely unnecessary barbarities, and Truman and other U.S. policy planners knew it.

I'm actually fine with this analysis as I have long believed that the bombings were unnecessary, but I don't know what that has to do with George Herbert Walker Bush. Something that the anti-US crowd will always do is go back and list off every past atrocity or mistake as if that somehow dooms us to forever committing atrocities and making mistakes. It doesn't have to be that way.
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attempting to write people off as anti-U.S. for expressing legitimate criticism of international actions is intellectually baseless and amounts to strawman
but really it just demonstrates that you are, as i said, just another jingoist.

ssjevot posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Who was the last President not to have been called a war criminal?

Obama

You can't actually believe that? Obama's actions in Libya, Syria, and most of the Middle East are far more worthy of being considered war crimes than HW Bush fighting off the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait along with most of the rest of the world.

What war crimes did Obama commit in Libya and Syria? The only story I can find was the incident of the school in Syria in 2017, but that was under Trump's administration and also a an exceptional outcome for what is probably the most anti-collateral damage oriented bombing campaign in modern warfare. Last total civilian death figures put Syrian and Russian forces at around 7000 caused deaths, and the U.S. and 900.

People like to harp on drone strikes but they also produce a remarkably small number of civilian casaulties despite Al-Qaeda and affiliated terrorist groups literally hiding amongst civilians.
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