Current Events > Communism has killed 100 million people

(+) Yeah! (+)

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MrPeppers posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Okay. So scenario, what would the implications me if we filled some sort of giant robot cockpit with amniotic fluid then had emotionally detached, traumatized or otherwise depressed teenagers inserted in to there? This is of course supposing we figured out how to make sure their lungs will be able to process the oxygen in the fluid, wouldn't want cockpits filled with dead kids now would we?

New world order that is some hybrid between communism and capitalism would form. End of world hunger and prosecution. The world is not ready for this, gunpla.

*Looks at the mayonnaise in my hand* I'm so fucked up
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Ryuko_Chan posted...

I bet @gunplagirl is cute.

This is immensely improbable tbqh

nah
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oh look, another alt account peddling commie apologetics trash
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

oh look, another alt account peddling commie apologetics trash

i'm no alt, i've already posted who i am before several times and that this is intended to be my main account since i don't like the name of my old account

not my fault your memory is as bad as your politics
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Proudclad throwing out more accusations. Must be another day that ends in y.
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Tmaster148 posted...

Proudclad throwing out more accusations. Must be another day that ends in y.

yep, clod clodding it up like usual
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> says i have bad politics

> is a fucking communist in 2018
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Source on Khmer Rouge was a CIA plant? Because Ive never even heard of this theory before.
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Ryuko_Chan posted...

Source on Khmer Rouge was a CIA plant? Because Ive never even heard of this theory before.

its sourced on the image, but https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OZy1tdmYizzK3nwuWP4No_9ikPuXq5zs/view has the full list
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Interesting. I just peroused it a bit not going to lie. Im not really buying it, but I definitely would not be slightly surprised if it turned out to be true.
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averagejoel posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Communism's role in the commonly mentioned genocides and famines is like this:

again: which genocides?

you also forgot the part where the US military gets involved

Seems the use of genocides in this topic is in reference to the extreme bloodshed perpetrated on the citizenry by its government.

And yes, the influence of capitalist societies in world affairs is another reason communism is infeasible.

andel posted...

also, communism is objectively evil but somehow not as evil as fascism. it isnt hard to call a spade a spade, constantly deflecting from the atrocities of literal hitler is p despicable though

This, more of less, though I don't agree with the absolute subject-object relation with 'objectively' and 'evil' and 'communism'.

Anyway, it's easy to point to other abysmal failures in order to mask your own, but it's ridiculous to pretend like your own failures don't exist just because other fail. It's not as if any slight modification in a system completely changes it. The fucking keyword is 'slight'. Either way, how a government is run is absolutely based on the economic system it runs. The way the government runs itself is how the economic system runs. That's why the US isn't some mercantile freelance open world paradise that it is often described as. Nor is it some pale imitation of the Kowloon Walled City. It's not purely capitalism, since it's crony capitalism as opposed to an open market where consumer power is equitably distributed as opposed to restricted. Because.. why would an economy that wants to flourish clutch their pearls.

Sigh. I'm just rambling. It'd be great if I could actually debate with someone who had a fucking clue about macroeconomics, who has a salient, thought-out opinion about communism that discussed its flaws, as opposed to small minded market bullshit or some complete ignorant political economic wang-waving attempt with no substance because it's been repeated and disputed a fucking million times, but the same garbage keeps on getting disputed by people who haven't read an economics book, let alone world history books about the different parts of the world as they developed at the same time.

I got a toasty instead of a melty there.

Rimmer_Dall posted...

Am I sure events that occurred at the start of the century didn't cause the events that occurred in the 60s when Mao told all his farmers to stop farming and create shitty iron instead? Are you seriously asking that?

Did I stutter?

averagejoel posted...

I still don't know what you're talking about

I don't know what question you're asking because you're masking your intent way too much. Say what you what think wasn't communicated properly.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Seems the use of genocides in this topic is in reference to the extreme bloodshed perpetrated on the citizenry by its government.

the only genocide I've seen mentioned itt is the holocaust, which was not perpetrated by communists

Kineth posted...

I don't know what question you're asking because you're masking your intent way too much. Say what you what think wasn't communicated properly.

I honestly have no idea what this whole train of thought came from or how it started and I'm about to fall asleep so I'm not about to go back for more context
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Uh no, they say that they weren't communist because they want to damage control.

No, they say it because it's true.

Was Soviet Russia a stateless, currencyless, and classless society? No, it had a state, a currency, and a class system. Therefore it wasn't communist.

What about CCP China. Is it stateless, currencyless, and classess? Nope. it also has a state, a currency, and a class system. Therefore it to isn't communist.

Being stateless, currencyless, and classless are defining features of a communist society, to argue you can have a society that's communist without these, is like arguing you can be an atheist and a christian.

Ryuko_Chan posted...

@Doom_Art posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

conflating capitalism and climate change.

I hadn't considered this before but this actually makes perfect sense

Do you expect that if we turned communist we would just stop industrializing? WTF.

Climate change is the cause for gender change as well
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Fascism has killed a larger percentage of its constituents
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Right, capitalism's overconsumption culture couldn't have anything to do with climate change.

Scientists warned us about the dangers of fossil fuels well over 50 years ago, but nope, full profits ahead!

>Soviet Union wasn't really communism

>communism stopped the Nazis

which is it
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MakoReizei posted...

>Soviet Union wasn't really communism

>communism stopped the Nazis

which is it

The former.

JE19426 posted...

MakoReizei posted...

>Soviet Union wasn't really communism

>communism stopped the Nazis

which is it

The former.

but also the nazis were largely stopped by communists

you can be a communist without living in a communist society
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it's worth noting the communists enabled the Nazis. they're just as guilty for starting WWII

this video is a good summary on it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCMe0DMvcwU" data-time="
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

In before conflating capitalism and climate change.

At least climate change is a direct result of capitalism. Someone falls down a flight of stairs in a communist country, that gets added to the "Communist Death Toll".
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Godnorgosh posted...

I wonder why the author of In Defense of Global Capitalism would be interested in finding ways to blame communism for the Nazis

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@CircleOfManias posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

In before conflating capitalism and climate change.

At least climate change is a direct result of capitalism. Someone falls down a flight of stairs in a communist country, that gets added to the "Communist Death Toll".

How do you expect climate change to end under communism? Industrialization would still happen. Is everyone supposed to fuck off into the woods and become hunter/gatherers or some shit?
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Ryuko_Chan posted...

@CircleOfManias posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

In before conflating capitalism and climate change.

At least climate change is a direct result of capitalism. Someone falls down a flight of stairs in a communist country, that gets added to the "Communist Death Toll".

How do you expect climate change to end under communism? Industrialization would still happen. Is everyone supposed to fuck off into the woods and become hunter/gatherers or some shit?

Everyone starves to death, climate improves. Quite simple if you think about it.
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I don't think I've heard a communist explain how society would be anything more than a loose collection of farming villages without currency or a state

Rexdragon125 posted...

I don't think I've heard a communist explain how society would be anything more than a loose collection of farming villages without currency or a state

*Crickets*

Rimmer_Dall posted...

Ryuko_Chan posted...

@CircleOfManias posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

In before conflating capitalism and climate change.

At least climate change is a direct result of capitalism. Someone falls down a flight of stairs in a communist country, that gets added to the "Communist Death Toll".

How do you expect climate change to end under communism? Industrialization would still happen. Is everyone supposed to fuck off into the woods and become hunter/gatherers or some shit?

Everyone starves to death, climate improves. Quite simple if you think about it.

Lol
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Rexdragon125 posted...

Rexdragon125 posted...

I don't think I've heard a communist explain how society would be anything more than a loose collection of farming villages without currency or a state

*Crickets*

Considering that the Manifesto was written with the industrial revolution in mind, I just don't think you were paying attention.
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Marx believed that sunshine and rainbows would replace the market and currency, I don't think anyone was paying attention

Rexdragon125 posted...

Marx believed that sunshine and rainbows would replace the market and currency, I don't think anyone was paying attention

No one owes you an explanation if all you're gonna do is spew shit.
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@Ryuko_Chan posted...

How do you expect climate change to end under communism? Industrialization would still happen. Is everyone supposed to fuck off into the woods and become hunter/gatherers or some shit?

most people who say this just recognize that climate change will never be addressed under capitalism, because it prioritizes profit over everything else. we're not claiming that switching to socialism will suddenly make it go away overnight.

I'll explain it on a smaller scale.

let's say there's a factory in a town. it is owned by a large corporation. the workers at the factory make 1 product exclusively, and they make it exclusively for the corporation.

the CEO and shareholders in the company may have never set foot inside the factory itself. they might have never even set foot in the town it's in. yet they make essentially all the decisions pertaining to how things are done, while also reaping most of the profits from the goods made at the factory.

if the factory is polluting a nearby lake, there's no incentive for the CEO or shareholders to change that. the pollution has no direct effect on them, and eliminating the pollution would require cutting into their profit margin.

in a socialist system, the workers at the factory would be in control of the factory. they have actual incentive to not pollute the lake, because they probably live in the town.

workplaces like this exist in capitalism too they're called Workers Co-operatives, and they're great, but they're not enough.

(as a side note: addressing pollution is by no means the only benefit to having workers controlling the factory directly; it's just the one you were most interested in)
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Lots of delusional communist sympathizers itt spinning crap and lies.
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averagejoel posted...

@Ryuko_Chan posted...

How do you expect climate change to end under communism? Industrialization would still happen. Is everyone supposed to fuck off into the woods and become hunter/gatherers or some shit?

most people who say this just recognize that climate change will never be addressed under capitalism, because it prioritizes profit over everything else. we're not claiming that switching to socialism will suddenly make it go away overnight.

I'll explain it on a smaller scale.

let's say there's a factory in a town. it is owned by a large corporation. the workers at the factory make 1 product exclusively, and they make it exclusively for the corporation.

the CEO and shareholders in the company may have never set foot inside the factory itself. they might have never even set foot in the town it's in. yet they make essentially all the decisions pertaining to how things are done, while also reaping most of the profits from the goods made at the factory.

if the factory is polluting a nearby lake, there's no incentive for the CEO or shareholders to change that. the pollution has no direct effect on them, and eliminating the pollution would require cutting into their profit margin.

in a socialist system, the workers at the factory would be in control of the factory. they have actual incentive to not pollute the lake, because they probably live in the town.

workplaces like this exist in capitalism too they're called Workers Co-operatives, and they're great, but they're not enough.

(as a side note: addressing pollution is by no means the only benefit to having workers controlling the factory directly; it's just the one you were most interested in)

Communist China is probably the most polluted country in the world so good job being ignorant.
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climate change is being addressed under capitalism, especially because it is profitable to do so

you dont need profit to do things under capitalism, but making something good and noble profitable just skyrockets the rate of adoption which is why coal is dying and solar is taking over

also why is Kineth always in these topics with thinly veiled communism apologetics? didnt he say he's a libertarian?
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@averagejoel posted...

@Ryuko_Chan posted...

How do you expect climate change to end under communism? Industrialization would still happen. Is everyone supposed to fuck off into the woods and become hunter/gatherers or some shit?

most people who say this just recognize that climate change will never be addressed under capitalism, because it prioritizes profit over everything else. we're not claiming that switching to socialism will suddenly make it go away overnight.

I'll explain it on a smaller scale.

let's say there's a factory in a town. it is owned by a large corporation. the workers at the factory make 1 product exclusively, and they make it exclusively for the corporation.

the CEO and shareholders in the company may have never set foot inside the factory itself. they might have never even set foot in the town it's in. yet they make essentially all the decisions pertaining to how things are done, while also reaping most of the profits from the goods made at the factory.

if the factory is polluting a nearby lake, there's no incentive for the CEO or shareholders to change that. the pollution has no direct effect on them, and eliminating the pollution would require cutting into their profit margin.

in a socialist system, the workers at the factory would be in control of the factory. they have actual incentive to not pollute the lake, because they probably live in the town.

workplaces like this exist in capitalism too they're called Workers Co-operatives, and they're great, but they're not enough.

(as a side note: addressing pollution is by no means the only benefit to having workers controlling the factory directly; it's just the one you were most interested in)

interesting point, makes sense I guess. idk I just dont have trust for communism. Like my grandparents came to Canada to flee it in Czechoslovakia so
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If the workers in this factory are making things that people in the town don't even use, what's their incentive to keep going to work?
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shnangyboos posted...

If the workers in this factory are making things that people in the town don't even use, what's their incentive to keep going to work?

being able to eat
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averagejoel posted...

shnangyboos posted...

If the workers in this factory are making things that people in the town don't even use, what's their incentive to keep going to work?

being able to eat

Which ironically they won't be able to do in a Communist system.
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awesome999 posted...

"Communism has killed 100 million people"

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

So apparently an ideology is more capable of murder than a weapon

A single ideology more capable of mass harm. A single gun can do only so much. A gun does not drive an ideology, while an ideology drives the gun to be used.
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CircleOfManias posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

In before conflating capitalism and climate change.

At least climate change is a direct result of capitalism. Someone falls down a flight of stairs in a communist country, that gets added to the "Communist Death Toll".

Why is it then that more 'communist' nations have more emissions and few controls in place?
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MaverickXeo posted...

CircleOfManias posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

In before conflating capitalism and climate change.

At least climate change is a direct result of capitalism. Someone falls down a flight of stairs in a communist country, that gets added to the "Communist Death Toll".

Why is it then that more 'communist' nations have more emissions and few controls in place?

source?
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Godnorgosh posted...

I think he's referring to China, which is not only capitalist

lmfao!
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MaverickXeo posted...

awesome999 posted...

"Communism has killed 100 million people"

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

So apparently an ideology is more capable of murder than a weapon

A single ideology more capable of mass harm. A single gun can do only so much. A gun does not drive an ideology, while an ideology drives the gun to be used.

is this peak idealism
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