Current Events > people comically overrate how many Americans are actually middle class.

(+) Yeah! (+)

granted middle class has become "not completely poor" and is barely a category anymore but still, the vast majority of the american populace is not actually middle class and you should stop assuming it is.
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Source
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Yeah, most of the "middle class" that people think of are actually lower class
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and a good chunk of the lower class people are only lower class because of poor spending habits/budget and could actually be middle class if they took a bit of time to live under their means.

The median household income in the US is over $60k and the poverty rate was 12.3% in 2017.

So you are wrong IMO.
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

Yeah, most of the "middle class" that people think of are actually lower class

and most people who think they're middle class are one missed paycheck away from being homeless
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Subjective wealth class is a pretty skewed thing. People have a poor understanding how well off they are doing relative to others.

This topic is partly evidence for this lol.
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99% of "poor" households in america have a refrigerator
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COVxy posted...

Subjective wealth class is a pretty skewed thing. People have a poor understanding how well off they are doing relative to others.

This topic is partly evidence for this lol.

I agree. My question is: what is actually considered middle class? You cant go by income because that varies so much by region.
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Philoktetes posted...

99% of "poor" households in america have a refrigerator

It's almost like a refrigerator is a useful tool to preserving food.
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COVxy posted...

Subjective wealth class is a pretty skewed thing. People have a poor understanding how well off they are doing relative to others.

This topic is partly evidence for this lol.

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HydraSlayer82 posted...

COVxy posted...

Subjective wealth class is a pretty skewed thing. People have a poor understanding how well off they are doing relative to others.

This topic is partly evidence for this lol.

I agree. My question is: what is actually considered middle class? You cant go by income because that varies so much by region.

Good question, the definition seems to be hard to grab onto.

If we look at the household income distribution:
https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2015/demo/distribution-of-household-income--2014.html

Median household income is 53k, so presumably we would put some bounds on either side of that and call it a day. So like 25k-75k, or something like that, to capture the middle 3rd of the distribution.
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Middle class is being able to live comfortably with your salary.

So a single person living in Alabama has to make a lot less to be middle class than someone with a family living in California.
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COVxy posted...

HydraSlayer82 posted...

COVxy posted...

Subjective wealth class is a pretty skewed thing. People have a poor understanding how well off they are doing relative to others.

This topic is partly evidence for this lol.

I agree. My question is: what is actually considered middle class? You cant go by income because that varies so much by region.

Good question, the definition seems to be hard to grab onto.

If we look at the household income distribution:
https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2015/demo/distribution-of-household-income--2014.html

Median household income is 53k, so presumably we would put some bounds on either side of that and call it a day. So like 25k-75k, or something like that, to capture the middle 3rd of the distribution.

for whatever reason, it's much more common to talk about household income in quintiles
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Godnorgosh posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

The median household income in the US is over $60k and the poverty rate was 12.3% in 2017.

So you are wrong IMO.

You understand that household income often includes two earners, correct?

If you are determining whether people in a family are middle class or not, you don't divide income in half.

Notice how the poverty threshold in the US increases by ~$3k-5k for each person in a family: https://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-threshold.html
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The middle class has shrunk over the last 30 years, as much because of people becoming poorer, as because of people becoming wealthier.

In the modern era it is ill-defined, and most wealthy and poor people alike call themselves "middle class" because admitting their position in the social strata runs counter to either their ego or ambitions.

I'm not middle class, and I know it and I try not to pretend like things that hurt me are hurting the middle class. My opposition to the SALT adjustment in the tax bill is based on wanting my higher taxes to pay for better social programs that resolve long-term issues in America, not corporate tax cuts. It raises my taxes, and my opposition was never on basis of "the way it's raising taxes on me hurts the middle class" as some less honest Maryland, Illinois, and California democrats argued.

I'm also not fond of how it adjusts the inflation model for the tax brackets to an unrealistically low rate, which does hurt middle class Americans. Little impact on me.

In truth, the tax bill likely made me wealthier. I adjusted my portfolio position to a leveraged long stance on US equities, esp small caps, in dec 2017 after Collins indicated she was a yes. Despite this year's volatility, that position is up significantly.
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Godnorgosh posted...

$30k per earner is very little for two people with children.

that, too, depends on region and family support.

a household with that income in kansas, living a half-mile from in-laws, will do great. both parents could return to work and have the parents act as babysitters. 60k easily covers regional housing costs.

In DC, far from family, it'd be a total nightmare, as one parent would be choosing between working essentially to pay for the cost of daycare, or torpedoing their career long-term and having their household income halved respective to other costs.
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Godnorgosh posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Damn_Underscore posted...

The median household income in the US is over $60k and the poverty rate was 12.3% in 2017.

So you are wrong IMO.

You understand that household income often includes two earners, correct?

If you are determining whether people in a family are middle class or not, you don't divide income in half.

$30k per earner is very little for two people with children.

It totally depends on their personal situation.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

The median household income in the US is over $60k and the poverty rate was 12.3% in 2017.

So you are wrong IMO.

You try living on 60k in California, New York, Boston, DC, Chicago, etc. You know, real cities

Not everyone lives in a super expensive city either. Some cities are less expensive than others.
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52% of adults are still middle class but that's shrinking according to this: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/06/the-american-middle-class-is-stable-in-size-but-losing-ground-financially-to-upper-income-families/
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HydraSlayer82 posted...

COVxy posted...

Subjective wealth class is a pretty skewed thing. People have a poor understanding how well off they are doing relative to others.

This topic is partly evidence for this lol.

I agree. My question is: what is actually considered middle class? You cant go by income because that varies so much by region.

middle class is small business owners, people who perform admin work for larger businesses, and self-employed people
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America doesn't have a middle class.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Not everyone lives in a super expensive city either. Some cities are less expensive than others.

I live in a smaller metro and jobs above $40,000 are like a rare pokemom lol.
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this is also one of the catch 22's of cheaper metro areas, 5% of the jobs pay a middle class wage so good luck finding something that actually pays well.
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