Current Events > 61% of entry-level jobs require 3+ years of experience

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://talent.works/blog/2018/03/28/the-science-of-the-job-search-part-iii-61-of-entry-level-jobs-require-3-years-of-experience/

the lesson is employer loyalty is a waste of your time
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And they wonder why people can't find post-grad jobs
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Ya gotta make those contacts while you finish college. It's a tired old cliche, but I done an internship at my accountancy firm and they basically told me I'd have an opening to get in once I graduated.

Darkman124 posted...

the lesson is employer loyalty is a waste of your time

Especially when they can basically show you the door any time they want and don't have to do anything beyond what they're legally obligated (which in some cases is like nothing).

And then they make you sign papers saying you'll shut up about everything or else and it's not like you have any actual choice.
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The sooner people realize jobs are more about connections and less about your own experience, the better.

According to that graph there are "entry level" jobs that actually require 10 years of experience

More like entry-level grannies mirite
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Menardii posted...

The sooner people realize jobs are more about connections and less about your own experience, the better.

So either way, Scion is fucked?
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Menardii posted...

The sooner people realize jobs are more about connections and less about your own experience, the better.

This is true. My position was listed as "post-doctoral researcher" on my employer's website. I do not have a PhD.
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They do it for 2 reasons. One to take advantage of H1B visas, and two to hopefully severely underpay a sucker with the actual experience. Mostly the former though, especially in the tech industry.
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Its all about connections.

Fuck, I was told by a nursing manager that neonatal icu wasnt hiring new grads. 4 new grads, including my classmates, got hired there. I graduated summa cum laude with university honors and a thesis (in the area of neonatal nursing). I thought that those things would set me apart from other applicants (lmfao)

Ultimately didnt help with a job search but it DID get me into grad school, thankfully.
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Darkman124 posted...

the lesson is employer loyalty is a waste of your time

explain like i'm five plz.
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AsucaHayashi posted...

Darkman124 posted...

the lesson is employer loyalty is a waste of your time

explain like i'm five plz.

while these jobs keep rolling out with requirements that make it impossible for new grads to earn the position without having worked an unpaid internship and built a tight connection with the hiring manager, active workers qualify for mid-level positions with 5 years of work and senior with 8.

these positions are going unfilled, which means negotiating power is in the worker's hands once they have actually fulfilled the requirements (ideally by taking a job working for your 'friend' from your internship)

once you meet the experience requirement, dump your employer as often as you get a new opportunity. it will raise your salary rapidly.

my wife went from earning 36k in 2013 to 86k now, by changing jobs about every 1.5 years.
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ArchiePeck posted...

Ya gotta make those contacts while you finish college. It's a tired old cliche, but I done an internship at my accountancy firm and they basically told me I'd have an opening to get in once I graduated.

A tired old cliche that doesn't fucking work.

I did an internship in college and it meant nothing.
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DK9292 posted...

ArchiePeck posted...

Ya gotta make those contacts while you finish college. It's a tired old cliche, but I done an internship at my accountancy firm and they basically told me I'd have an opening to get in once I graduated.

A tired old cliche that doesn't fucking work.

I did an internship in college and it meant nothing.

You did it wrong then

Menardii posted...

DK9292 posted...

ArchiePeck posted...

Ya gotta make those contacts while you finish college. It's a tired old cliche, but I done an internship at my accountancy firm and they basically told me I'd have an opening to get in once I graduated.

A tired old cliche that doesn't fucking work.

I did an internship in college and it meant nothing.

You did it wrong then

Exactly. Exactly. Every time, of course. Why did I expect anything else.
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Darkman124 posted...

AsucaHayashi posted...

Darkman124 posted...

the lesson is employer loyalty is a waste of your time

explain like i'm five plz.

while these jobs keep rolling out with requirements that make it impossible for new grads to earn the position without having worked an unpaid internship and built a tight connection with the hiring manager, active workers qualify for mid-level positions with 5 years of work and senior with 8.

these positions are going unfilled, which means negotiating power is in the worker's hands once they have actually fulfilled the requirements (ideally by taking a job working for your 'friend' from your internship)

once you meet the experience requirement, dump your employer as often as you get a new opportunity. it will raise your salary rapidly.

my wife went from earning 36k in 2013 to 86k now, by changing jobs about every 1.5 years.

Have to be careful though, it doesn't look good on a resume when job hopping every few years. Many companies won't give those people the time of day because why invest in a job hopper.
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It's just to discourage flakey applicants. Apply anyway. Obviously you'll be at a disadvantage to anyone with genuine experience but you still have a shot.

voldothegr8 posted...

Darkman124 posted...

AsucaHayashi posted...

Darkman124 posted...

the lesson is employer loyalty is a waste of your time

explain like i'm five plz.

while these jobs keep rolling out with requirements that make it impossible for new grads to earn the position without having worked an unpaid internship and built a tight connection with the hiring manager, active workers qualify for mid-level positions with 5 years of work and senior with 8.

these positions are going unfilled, which means negotiating power is in the worker's hands once they have actually fulfilled the requirements (ideally by taking a job working for your 'friend' from your internship)

once you meet the experience requirement, dump your employer as often as you get a new opportunity. it will raise your salary rapidly.

my wife went from earning 36k in 2013 to 86k now, by changing jobs about every 1.5 years.

Have to be careful though, it doesn't look good on a resume when job hopping every few years. Many companies won't give those people the time of day because why invest in a job hopper.

they don't invest in us
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ArchiePeck posted...

Ya gotta make those contacts while you finish college. It's a tired old cliche, but I done an internship at my accountancy firm and they basically told me I'd have an opening to get in once I graduated.

Yeah, the whole point of college is to get an internship, meet people and then get a job from that. Not the degree itself.
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voldothegr8 posted...

Have to be careful though, it doesn't look good on a resume when job hopping every few years. Many companies won't give those people the time of day because why invest in a job hopper.

this is an issue only when you are job hopping every 6 mo.

and not an issue at all for senior level positions, where the ratio of job openings:applicants is skewed strongly in favor of those with the needed experience.

the ideal employee experience is take a new position, work it long enough to receive a full year performance review and salary action. if your salary action is good (4% or more), you can consider staying. if it is poor, you have the perfect justification for leaving.

"I received an excellent performance review but a poor salary action" is a highly respected and understood reason for leaving an employer in most work areas.
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LightHawKnight posted...

ArchiePeck posted...

Ya gotta make those contacts while you finish college. It's a tired old cliche, but I done an internship at my accountancy firm and they basically told me I'd have an opening to get in once I graduated.

Yeah, the whole point of college is to get an internship, meet people and then get a job from that. Not the degree itself.

Well that'd have been FUCKING NICE TO KNOW.

Thirteen years in education, and literally EVERYONE involved insisted the degree was the important part. Now here I am, stupid, unemployed and unemployable.

I feel ready to fucking cry.
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DK9292 posted...

LightHawKnight posted...

ArchiePeck posted...

Ya gotta make those contacts while you finish college. It's a tired old cliche, but I done an internship at my accountancy firm and they basically told me I'd have an opening to get in once I graduated.

Yeah, the whole point of college is to get an internship, meet people and then get a job from that. Not the degree itself.

Well that'd have been FUCKING NICE TO KNOW.

Thirteen years in education, and literally EVERYONE involved insisted the degree was the important part. Now here I am, stupid, unemployed and unemployable.

I feel ready to fucking cry.

No one told you? When I was in college, you even had to have at least 1 internship to graduate....
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@DK9292 were you a first gen graduate too? No one truly helped me with these things either, so I feel your pain. Hopefully you find something sooner rather than later.
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The only reason Darkman is a rocket scientist is because he has connections

Makes sense. Hire people who are over qualified, and pay them less than they would otherwise be worth.
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i basically gave up on trying to find an office job, both in my field and outside of it; employment culture is a shitshow, but in fairness my resume is trash anyway. now i just work at a restaurant.
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@TC, what do you suggest for someone who wants to get into academia eventually (probably within like 5 years)?
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_Lyonidias posted...

@TC, what do you suggest for someone who wants to get into academia eventually (probably within like 5 years)?

i suggest you look for a school with old professors and apply there, because a huge part of academia is sitting in limbo as a postdoc while you wait for a professor to retire or die.

and postdoc for someone with power, not someone you like.
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What about those 18 dollar an hour jobs that require a minimum of a Bachelors Degree, or 5 years related experience?

There is a reason that Millennials are financially fucked
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DuranOfForcena posted...

so, dipshit employers don't know what "entry-level" is supposed to mean

I think they know exactly what it means, they're just using it as an excuse to pay shit wages for quality workers.
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DK9292 posted...

Well that'd have been f***ING NICE TO KNOW.

Thirteen years in education, and literally EVERYONE involved insisted the degree was the important part. Now here I am, stupid, unemployed and unemployable.

I feel ready to f***ing cry.

How long have you been unemployed? How long ago did you graduate? What is your field? It's never too late to get started, but you may need to take a different strategy since you missed the internship boat. I can make some suggestions based on your answer to those questions.
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People saying getting internships like that's easy. Internships have stupid requirements too.

MC_BatCommander posted...

DuranOfForcena posted...

so, dipshit employers don't know what "entry-level" is supposed to mean

I think they know exactly what it means, they're just using it as an excuse to pay shit wages for quality workers.

Or take advantage of H1B. "Well we couldn't hire any Americans because nobody fit the bill"
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Zanzenburger posted...

DK9292 posted...

Well that'd have been f***ING NICE TO KNOW.

Thirteen years in education, and literally EVERYONE involved insisted the degree was the important part. Now here I am, stupid, unemployed and unemployable.

I feel ready to f***ing cry.

How long have you been unemployed? How long ago did you graduate? What is your field? It's never too late to get started, but you may need to take a different strategy since you missed the internship boat. I can make some suggestions based on your answer to those questions.

Since you're giving out advice - I graduated in 2015 but spent another year getting a paralegal certificate afterwards. Since then, I've had very infrequent temp positions, to the point that my resume has large gaps of unemployment. I just started volunteering at courthouses for experience, but is there anything else I should be doing?

voldothegr8 posted...

Darkman124 posted...

AsucaHayashi posted...

Darkman124 posted...

the lesson is employer loyalty is a waste of your time

explain like i'm five plz.

while these jobs keep rolling out with requirements that make it impossible for new grads to earn the position without having worked an unpaid internship and built a tight connection with the hiring manager, active workers qualify for mid-level positions with 5 years of work and senior with 8.

these positions are going unfilled, which means negotiating power is in the worker's hands once they have actually fulfilled the requirements (ideally by taking a job working for your 'friend' from your internship)

once you meet the experience requirement, dump your employer as often as you get a new opportunity. it will raise your salary rapidly.

my wife went from earning 36k in 2013 to 86k now, by changing jobs about every 1.5 years.

Have to be careful though, it doesn't look good on a resume when job hopping every few years. Many companies won't give those people the time of day because why invest in a job hopper.

In IT it doesn't matter. I hopped from making 50K to 66K to 100K and I'll be starting a 144K/year job in November. This is in the space of 3.5 years.
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Thanks for this source darkman
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Honestly, it's not that hard getting a job man. Forget the requirements. If you want to work for a company spend all day applying for every position in there and have a decent cover letter, eventually the people at HR are going to realize that you really want to work there and that demonstrates you aren't going to flake out and that you're actually passionate about the work they do at the organization. If you're really desperate for a job you can write up a decent resume, lie on it if you have to, and go on linkedin and apply for all the jobs where all you have to do is send them your resume, it takes less than a minute and there are loads of jobs.

The real problem is people want livable wage jobs, don't want to live with their parents for a bit, don't want to suffer etc. they think that because they worked really hard getting a stupid degree at a university nobody gives a crap about that they deserve a 50-100k a year paying job. My friend had that mentality, majored in marketing and minored economics, he was chosen out of a pool of 3000 applicants for an internship at a prestigious company in downtown loop chicago as a database administrator. He ended up wanting to kill himself and quit the job, now he lives on someones couch and works at a restaurant because he's still too proud to go back and live with his parents to learn a reasonable way to get by in life. I'm sorry, but money isn't everything. I choose being in a calm, relaxed environment where I barely have to do any work and require education that can be taught to me by the people working there or at the very least given a book with what I need to know than to actually train for a job that I'm going to want to kill myself over. This is why UBI is important, once people stop feeling pressured to get a job to survive, and the stigma behind receiving welfare is gone they're going to realize the the same thing the farmer learned when he stopped using horses to plow the field and bought a tractor. Let the idiots who want to kill themselves for an employer that wouldn't give a crap about them if they died on the job do the jobs that pay those 70-150k wages, work jobs you can manage being at with little pressure and altruistic environment. There are plenty out there, but if all you care about is money you're going to live a miserable life. As the bible says, riches are meaningless, blessed is the man who enjoys the spoils of his labor for he is truly rich.
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knutjob posted...

It's just to discourage flakey applicants. Apply anyway. Obviously you'll be at a disadvantage to anyone with genuine experience but you still have a shot.

This. A good cover letter can also help alleviate lack of experience.
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Space_Man posted...

knutjob posted...

It's just to discourage flakey applicants. Apply anyway. Obviously you'll be at a disadvantage to anyone with genuine experience but you still have a shot.

This. A good cover letter can also help alleviate lack of experience.

I mean you can certainly speculate about a company's stupid hiring decisions, but you gotta take them at face value when applying.
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i miss the good old days when you could work at a factory for 20 years, make a decent living, earn a pension, retire and sit on your acre of land with a house that you bought for $30,000 and is now worth $600,000. AMERICAN DREAM
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MorganTJ posted...

Since you're giving out advice - I graduated in 2015 but spent another year getting a paralegal certificate afterwards. Since then, I've had very infrequent temp positions, to the point that my resume has large gaps of unemployment. I just started volunteering at courthouses for experience, but is there anything else I should be doing?

What did you graduate in? I'm guessing the paralegal certificate you want to be involved in law, but what areas of law? Do you just want to be a paralegal?

If so, then your gaps of unemployment can easily be brushed aside by creating a skill-based resume instead of a chronological-based resume (look those up). A skill-based resume focuses more on the skills you've learned in your temp jobs moreso than the temp jobs themselves.

Volunteering at a courthouse is a great start, but are you networking there? Do the workers there know you by name yet? Do they like you? You need to engage in some water cooler talk and talk to everyone from the desk clerks to the judges when the opportunities present themselves. Every now and then, bring up in the conversation how your goal is to do ________ just so they are aware of it. Previous posters are right in that the right connections can get you a job.

It's not only who you know, but more importantly, who knows you.

Those are some good starting points based on the info you gave me.
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Darkman124 posted...

_Lyonidias posted...

@TC, what do you suggest for someone who wants to get into academia eventually (probably within like 5 years)?

i suggest you look for a school with old professors and apply there, because a huge part of academia is sitting in limbo as a postdoc while you wait for a professor to retire or die.

and postdoc for someone with power, not someone you like.

Thats what I figured.
My field already has an issue with too many retiring professors so Im sure it wont be impossible.
Hopefully I can be in academia with a DNP but Im already prepared to go back and get my PhD if needed.
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I've said this since I graduated high school some 15 years ago. Schools need to give up this whole 12th grade curriculum bullshit and let the 12th grade(level 3 to some) be all about necessity skills. Preparing our children(or ourselves) for what comes after school is necessary to live.

I personally think that by the time you graduate high school you should be able to work any 2nd level job in the country(2nd level meaning office secretary, kitchen staff, or any of those other jobs that aren't retail). Unfortunately, the mass majority of people and companies seem to disagree with me.

You should have an advantage upon leaving high school. I mean its great to know things like Math, Science, and History, but how is that going to help you with budgeting your money so you don't overspend? or being able to cook a basic omelette. I'm not saying go overboard with this stuff, but teenagers and young adults leaving high school should be able to make above the minimum wage without bankrupting themselves in college.

If the final grade of high school was to be divided into 10 categories, I would make 8 mandatory, with 2 being electives.

Basic Accounting
Culinary 101
Office Administration
General Housekeeping
Introduction to Business Management
Introduction to Computer Applications
Introduction to Typing
Other(Public Speaking, Essay Writing, Pretty much anything that prepares you for the outside world)

with the other 2 being whatever you want it to be. So you could learn a new language, further your education from the previous year, start 2 of your college courses in the final grade in high school.

The point being, make everything easier, give less chance for failure. If you take 2 college courses, then that's 2 less you have to worry about, thus giving you more time to study and finish up assignments.

My mandatory unpaid 3 year internship required that I be a full time teacher while also being a full time university student.

Everyone has to do it so no one cares that you have that much internship experience. There are also so many interns at each school that you're guaranteed to not get a job at the school you made your closest connections.

6 years later I'm fed up with the low pay (at least I'm actually getting paid now) long hours, and unethical practices of teaching. I applied for a school custodian job and was turned down because I needed 3 years cleaning experience with other companies. Never mind the fact that I've worked with school custodians for 7 years and have cleaned classrooms for just as long.

I don't have the luxury of crashing on my parents' couch until I can build a strong enough resume to land a school janitor position. Fortunately, the head custodian at my school is willing to be a fantastic reference for me. This isn't a sustainable model for society to continue.
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Ivany2008 posted...

I've said this since I graduated high school some 15 years ago. Schools need to give up this whole 12th grade curriculum bullshit and let the 12th grade(level 3 to some) be all about necessity skills. Preparing our children(or ourselves) for what comes after school is necessary to live.

I agree with you. High school USED to be about producing 18 year olds ready for life, now high school is nothing more than a factory producing college freshmen.
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@Darkman124 have you tried the website you linked to for finding jobs?
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