Current Events > So... why do people hate BBC's Sherlock now? *Series Spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Just finished season 4.

The season where they reveal there was a long lost sister. And she was able to manipulate an entire prison

:/
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Season 4 only had one good episode.
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saspa posted...

why do people hate BBC's Sherlock now?

saspa posted...

The season where they reveal there was a long lost sister. And she was able to manipulate an entire prison

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Makeveli_lives posted...

Season 4 only had one good episode.

Well...I mean you only have three to choose from.

That said I burned my brain after Mary is like "I USED TO BE A SPEC-OPS MERCENARY".

I mean...really? This is your idea of a huge twist? It's like the crap a 14 year old would come up with because it's "badass". I'm not saying there isn't a reason someone can't have done wet work in their past life but it flies in the face of coherent writing.

I was so glad when she died because it removed such a shitty plot device but the damage had been done so I never finished season 4. I can't see the series really improving after having to make such a shark-jumping move, even if they unwound it.
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what is this nonsense you can't just manipulate an entire prison, feminine wiles or otherwise. Speaking of, the movie Ex Machina handled that way better, and I totally got Ex Machina vibes from the season 4 finale when they were in the prison and when they showed her on the tape sessions with various men.
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Can't go wrong with Cucumberpatch and the Hobit
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Solid Sonic posted...

That said I burned my brain after Mary is like "I USED TO BE A SPEC-OPS MERCENARY".

I mean...really? This is your idea of a huge twist? It's like the crap a 14 year old would come up with because it's "badass". I'm not saying there isn't a reason someone can't have done wet work in their past life but it flies in the face of coherent writing.

TO be fair that was season 3, so the problem started long ago. Also I did find it weird in the very first episode of season 3 when she knew what the heck a skip code was? I still don't even know what that means.

But yeah I kinda agree.

However why are you in this topic if you haven't completed season 4, what in your words is just 3 meager episodes. After all the "best" is yet to come, you're missing out on one last twist.
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I have one episode left of season 4 so if I ever do get around to watching it it'll be just that but so far I haven't.

My dad already gave up on the show.
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You should. Might as well ya know?
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People dont HATE it, but yeah, S4 was the weakest by a good margin and it felt out of gas tbh.
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There's a season 4? Should I watch?
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Squall28 posted...

There's a season 4? Should I watch?

If you like Sherlock its still worth seeing. It just went from my wife and I saying I hope they make these every few years forever! to ...yeah, okay, they can be done if they want.

It ends in such a way that they seem to be aware that they may not ever make more but could if they wanted, but it also wasnt good enough that I feel like they NEED to make more. They can call it a good run if its over.
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For my money, the series set a really bad precedent for itself when they decided an acceptable explanation for the Reichenbach Fall was it doesnt matter how, Sherlock is smarter than you, deal with it

That became the explanation for pretty much everything from that point forward, and it never really recaptured the feeling that Sherlocks path to solving mysteries was genius but not superhuman. You could follow how he arrived at his conclusions and go oh, of course!... until you couldnt.

It still remained extremely worth watching because Cumberbatch and Freeman are just incredible together. Absolutely incredible. Id watch an hour of them drinking tea. But sadly, the show stopped caring about the mysteries themselves having any good explanation and that took the show from all-time elite to just very good.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

Squall28 posted...

There's a season 4? Should I watch?

If you like Sherlock its still worth seeing. It just went from my wife and I saying I hope they make these every few years forever! to ...yeah, okay, they can be done if they want.

It ends in such a way that they seem to be aware that they may not ever make more but could if they wanted, but it also wasnt good enough that I feel like they NEED to make more. They can call it a good run if its over.

That's how I felt after season 3. Season 3 felt like a good end to the series, and dipped in quality a bit from season 2. I'm not sure if I even want season 4 right now.
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I still love the moment where he had a fake girlfriend just to get access to a building.

What a sociopath!

I was so confused by that part. So he's dating her, and she's completely unaware of everything, and so is Charles Magnussen, the dude who knows everything about everything? And she gave an interview while he was in the hospital, what? And did Sherlock really think his glasses were magical spy glasses that relayed information to him? Lol what?

Oh and is it implied he slept with her as well? That makes it worse somehow, and more sociopathy, and not in the fun Sherlock way, but rather more of a Dexter Morgan serial killer way.
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The best episode of season four was the first one, and it's not great IMO. A complete waste of Mary. By the time you get to the last episode things are in shambles and you couldn't be faulted for believing the ontological integrity of the universe hangs on Holmes family drama and improbable reveals. I kind of feel the last good episode was the wedding, if only because it was entertaining to watch. It doesn't necessarily hold together internally, but it's fun enough you don't mind, just like the first episode on season two and probably the most popular episode of the series.

The series pulls some serious Lost shit on you though, constantly referencing the return on a certain 'consulting criminal' and stacking intrigues on one another that ultimately go nowhere. If the show had simply done that 4th wall breaking wink, intimating that it wasn't going to explain itself in the first episode of season three, and then never referenced the Reichenbach Fall again, the series would have been much better off. As it is, the final episode begins and we're still picking at that scab.
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I also liked the second episode of season 3, the wedding episode. I got a few laughs out of it and while I still don't really understand the whole not feeling being stabbed thing, overall it was enjoyable if a bit making Sherlock too human with constant smiling and eye contact.
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I thought the Mary being a secret spy thing was weird but I rolled with it, and the secret sister thing was something I tolerated if it meant the end of the season, but despite all the crap they pulled I wouldn't even come close to comparing it to the garbage that is Lost, and didn't really get that vibe at all, because that shitshow is in a category all its own.

I mean, the whole Sherlock sister and Moriarty thing was pretty stupid/weird and admittedly quite the asspull but still not comparable to that show I actually loved once upon a time, just 10 years ago.

I liked the season 3 premiere of showing different scenarios especially the more comedic ones but otherwise it's also a teeny bit of a disappointment that they didn't actually think of a way for Sherlock to survive. Huh I guess it is a bit like Lost in that way, though not nearly as hate-inspiring as Lost was with every single plotline it had.
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Classic Moffat. Makes something brilliant, then gets cocky and jumps the shark. Then repeately jumps the shark until he's doing outright backflips over the shark.
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The Mary Morsten thing could have worked but only if they properly foreshadowed it. You mentioned one such example but they needed more hints (unless I missed them, I have never rewatched an episode of the series), such as responding to a certain sound with an unexpected reaction (like going into a ready state as if she were still conditioned to respond to a hostile).
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It still doesn't bother me as much as the secret sister thing. I mean they've hinted at Redbeard before as this dark thing from Sherlock's past but even then that was super annoying of them to do.
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i liked it.

upon rewatch i liked it even more.

episode 1 was the weakest episode though.
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pinky0926 posted...

Classic Moffat. Makes something brilliant, then gets cocky and jumps the shark. Then repeately jumps the shark until he's doing outright backflips over the shark.

I've actually heard something like this before. Who IS this Moffat guy? Is he a comic book writer?
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saspa posted...

I've actually heard something like this before. Who IS this Moffat guy? Is he a comic book writer?

he's a writer
he did Sherlock, obviously, but he's also most famous for writing series 5 - 10 of Doctor Who

quite a few fans think he ruined the show and stopped watching after the previous showrunner left. I don't think that's quite fair, but Moffat does have some problems. he can't really write female characters as well as male character, he has a tendency to wrap things up with little explanation, and he's great at building up to something but struggles at giving it a meaningful conclusion
I still enjoy his writing, but he does have some clear faults that show up in both Sherlock and Doctor Who
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AsucaHayashi posted...

i liked it.

upon rewatch i liked it even more.

episode 1 was the weakest episode though.

You mean... of season 4?

Lol at the minute taker being the culprit. I'm not even gonna question how through all the layers of security and bureaucracy that was possible.

Also for the record I knew there was something up with the redhead that flirted with John on the bus. I wonder if they intended that from the very beginning though, the sister thing.
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Mark Gatiss (Mycroft) is the co-creator of the show. Im sure some of this is his doing too...
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prince_leo posted...

saspa posted...

I've actually heard something like this before. Who IS this Moffat guy? Is he a comic book writer?

he's a writer
he did Sherlock, obviously, but he's also most famous for writing series 5 - 10 of Doctor Who

quite a few fans think he ruined the show and stopped watching after the previous showrunner left. I don't think that's quite fair, but Moffat does have some problems. he can't really write female characters as well as male character, he has a tendency to wrap things up with little explanation, and he's great at building up to something but struggles at giving it a meaningful conclusion
I still enjoy his writing, but he does have some clear faults that show up in both Sherlock and Doctor Who

I'm not really surprised at the female character thing. Also that last bit about building something without meaningful conclusion is pretty much what happens in Sherlock so I can see why fans think that.
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Solid Sonic posted...

Mark Gatiss (Mycroft) is the co-creator of the show. Im sure some of this is his doing too...

OH shit for real? Shame, Thing is I actually like BBC's Mycroft. I feel both their Mycroft Holms and Irene Adler were pretty good, it's just their Moriarty that's eh.
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His writing is a double edged sword. Occasionally so brilliant you're left speechless and awe inspired, but most of the time you're just feeling confused and annoyed.
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saspa posted...

You mean... of season 4?

oh yea.. not the very first episode -_-

i'm glad it got increasingly better with each episode. didn't enjoy the last episode at first but as mentioned i enjoyed it much more after the second time.
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What makes it more enjoyable a second time?
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Mycroft is always great.

That said, most of the seasons past the first just went straight downhill. Everyone should go watch Luther ASAP.
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A lot of people realized it was never great, bordering on even not good. The way the cases are structured, it was a cool idea to modernize the way Sherlock would solve cases. But they violate many of the rules that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle always followed and claimed any mysteries should follow.

Also the way the series is written has that typical British melodrama that I don't particularly like. But then again, a lot of countries known for their dramas usually spam out melodrama with no restraint. I guess it's the winning formula and why this series was so popular in the first place
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The Xmas special they did a few years back was one of the worst things I have ever seen. I forgave a lot of the mid stuff in the previous seasons but that was the last straw.
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NinjaBreakfast posted...

The Xmas special they did a few years back was one of the worst things I have ever seen. I forgave a lot of the mid stuff in the previous seasons but that was the last straw.

Erm, you mean this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwntNANJCOE" data-time="
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Because if so what exactly was wrong with it?
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