Current Events > Dispelling the false rape myth

(+) Yeah! (+)

Or more accurately the "we can't do anything at all about sexual assault because any changes at all is going to result in lots of innocent men behind bars" argument:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensLib/comments/9hraly/fact_checking_false_rape_accusations_and_why_we/

TL;DR
- For both genders you are way more likely to be raped then falsely accused of rape.

- The estimated number of false rape accusations are around 2-10% at the highest.

- For 216 False Rape Accusations only 39 named suspects, and only 2 got charged. That means that only 18% of False Rape Accusations actually accuse someone and that only 0.9% of false rape accusations ended up on court.

- Vast majority of false rape accusations are made by Teenagers, Parents of Children, and the Homeless.

- 55% of False Rape Accusations are in hopes of getting free medical treatment. Next major category is from teenagers justifying their absences to parents.

- Serial accusations and people accusing others to get a promotion or to cover for a failed test almost never happens. The individuals who do tend to have a clear cut history of other forms of fraud in their history and are usually legitimate victims of sexual assault as children.

- Accusations on decades old sexual assaults, Sexual Promiscuity and Self Denial are not indicative of a false rape accuser.

- Older studies on the issue tend to be unreliable due to the limited knowledge of rape and how victims act.

- Police tend to accuse people of false accusations way more then there are false accusers due to use of pseudoscience equipment like the Polygraph or sexist beliefs like "sluttyness"

- Its more likely that police will dismiss a real victim of sexual assault as false then accuse someone falsely of sexual assault.

- The whole issue of False Rape Accusations have been hijacked by reactionaries as a vehicle to push for infringements of women rights. As the data shows the issue of false rape accusations are over hyped and the narrative spread on the internet just doesn't hold up.
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pinky0926 posted...

- The whole issue of False Rape Accusations have been hijacked by reactionaries as a vehicle to push for infringements of women rights. As the data shows the issue of false rape accusations are over hyped and the narrative spread on the internet just doesn't hold up.

Yeah, no kidding. It takes an abusive personality to act in such a fashion, which makes a lot of sense given the specific issue in this case. When you take the stances that those types tend to take on other issues, it's pretty clear as day.
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this is an interesting subreddit
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green butter posted...

this is an interesting subreddit

It's a good one. Pro feminism without the soyboys, pro mens rights without the red pill.
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whats the point of this? no one accused kavanaugh of rape
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Rick-C137 posted...

whats the point of this? no one accused kavanaugh of rape

Do your own work and get on your main.
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Thanks for this topic.

The thing that sucks about rape accusations is that it will almost always end up in a "he said she said" situation.

Even in a hypothetical situation where lets just say that a guy did indeed rape a girl. Even things that people would call evidence can be explained away.

Find semen? It was consensual
Find evidence of roughness? She asked for it rough.

Or there is always some sort of motive that can be ascribed to it

She gains publicity due to the accusations? She's just looking for attention
Is the alleged offender high ranking? She's just trying to gain fame/money/power.

So it really escapes me why some people don't understand why a lot of victims don't come forward.They want to avoid the crap above, especially after experiencing something traumatic.

It sucks. I get that we can't just put people in jail over unsubstantiated claims, but it's looking like we really can't put people in jail for this crime at all basically unless they admit to it or there is video evidence. Two things that are unlikely to happen. And MAYBE in other cases where there are multiple accusations but even then people tend to get away with it or people try to ascribe motive to it.

I'm generally inclined to believe that most people that make these accusations aren't just money hungry attention seekers and the accusations probably have at least some merit.
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By this logic, innocent people being executed isn't a valid reason to end capitol punishment.
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darkjedilink posted...

By this logic, innocent people being executed isn't a valid reason to end capitol punishment.

What's the point of your statement.
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darkjedilink posted...

By this logic, innocent people being executed isn't a valid reason to end capitol punishment.

I'm glad you brought this up actually. From the article: [In the] US 52 people have been exonerated for sexual assault that they didn't do. People exonerated on false accusations of Murder was 790 people.

So tell me and by your own logic here, do you think the above statistic means that we need to start taking murder charges less seriously?
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

By this logic, innocent people being executed isn't a valid reason to end capitol punishment.

I'm glad you brought this up actually. From the article: [In the] US 52 people have been exonerated for sexual assault that they didn't do. People exonerated on false accusations of Murder was 790 people.

So tell me, do you think the above statistic means that we need to start taking murder charges less seriously?

Heh. I'd rather he answer this one.
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

By this logic, innocent people being executed isn't a valid reason to end capitol punishment.

I'm glad you brought this up actually. From the article: [In the] US 52 people have been exonerated for sexual assault that they didn't do. People exonerated on false accusations of Murder was 790 people.

So tell me and by your own logic here, do you think the above statistic means that we need to start taking murder charges less seriously?

No, and I never advocated for taking rape allegations less seriously, either, so stop strawmanning.

Do you agree with capitol punishment?
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Kineth posted...

darkjedilink posted...

By this logic, innocent people being executed isn't a valid reason to end capitol punishment.

What's the point of your statement.

Most people who try to dismiss the very real problem of false allegations of rape and sexual assault ALSO believe we should abolish capitol punishment due to the chance of killing an innocent person.

I am demanded to denounce a man because a woman claimed he raped her without evidence, yet not punish a man to the fullest extent of the law (after a conviction WITH evidence) just because he MAY be guilty.
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darkjedilink posted...

I am demanded to denounce a man

I've said this in another topic, but no one is demanding, asking, requesting anything of you. If you feel you personally are being pushed to condemn, then no one is making demands but your own conscience.
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darkjedilink posted...

No, and I never advocated for taking rape allegations less seriously, either, so stop strawmanning.

Do you agree with capitol punishment?

You were trying to tie the amount of innocent people falsely accused of a crime to the reason to abolish the punishment for it and I was pointing out how that doesn't really follow in other existing and accepted circumstances. That's not a strawman jedi. That's called an example.

There's lots of reasons why I don't support capital punishment. The incidence of innocent people being wrongly accused should always be considered in any crime I think (as it should be here), but that is not the main reason why I don't support capital punishment.

Similarly the actual incidence of innocent men having their lives ruined by rape is so small that I don't think it should form the primary focus of discussion around it as evidenced here.
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darkjedilink posted...

Do you agree with capitol punishment?

You're going off-topic man.

darkjedilink posted...

Most people who try to dismiss the very real problem of false allegations of rape and sexual assault ALSO believe we should abolish capitol punishment due to the chance of killing an innocent person.

I don't think that's true at all. I'm sure that's an intersection there, but I don't think you're right on the rationale behind why they're against capital punishment. There are many reasons why, including people simply wanting a rehabilitative system as opposed to a punitive one.

I am demanded to denounce a man because a woman claimed he raped her without evidence, yet not punish a man to the fullest extent of the law (after a conviction WITH evidence) just because he MAY be guilty.

I don't even know where to begin with this, but this is a really weird place to host a pity party.
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pinky0926 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

No, and I never advocated for taking rape allegations less seriously, either, so stop strawmanning.

Do you agree with capitol punishment?

You were trying to tie the amount of innocent people falsely accused of a crime to the reason to abolish the punishment for it and I was pointing out how that doesn't really follow in other existing and accepted circumstances. That's not a strawman jedi. That's called an example.

There's lots of reasons why I don't support capital punishment. The incidence of innocent people being wrongly accused should always be considered in any crime I think (as it should be here), but that is not the main reason why I don't support capital punishment.

Similarly the actual incidence of innocent men having their lives ruined by rape is so small that I don't think it should form the primary focus of discussion around it as evidenced here.

You can't literally argue in the OP that people should shut up about false rape allegations (going so far as to call it a 'myth' to 'dispell'), and say you support supposition of innocence.

One person going to prison for a rape they didn't is too many, just as one execution of an innocent person is too many. Now, figure in all the high-profile rape accusations the left used to make their 'rape culture' arguments (UVA, Duke lacrosse team), and tell me why it isn't a problem?
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darkjedilink posted...

One person going to prison for a rape they didn't is too many

One person going to jail for any crime that they didn't commit is too many. There is no way we can stop it from happening though and no other crime is getting special attention in regards to being falsely accused.
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darkjedilink posted...

One person going to prison for a rape they didn't is too many, just as one execution of an innocent person is too many.

I'm pretty sure you were making excuses for the cops that executed Tamir Rice so I don't know why you're virtue signalling here.
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M_Live posted...

A lot of the people who whine about false accusations online either A) are women haters who aren't ever having sex or B) rapey ass creepy dudes

I've honestly said this almost this exact thing.

If, after the facts are presented, they still resist, then they fall under two types of people:

1) Those who hate women and looking for more reasons to do so.
2) The guilty.
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ClunkerSlim posted...

pinky0926 posted...

The estimated number of false rape accusations are around 2-10% at the highest

The Duke Lacrosse team says hi.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

How does that go against what he said?
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ClunkerSlim posted...

pinky0926 posted...

The estimated number of false rape accusations are around 2-10% at the highest

The Duke Lacrosse team says hi.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

This argument only works if the Duke lacrosse team adds up to more than ten percent of false rape accusations.

They do not.
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darkjedilink posted...

You can't literally argue in the OP that people should shut up about false rape allegations (going so far as to call it a 'myth' to 'dispell'), and say you support supposition of innocence.

One person going to prison for a rape they didn't is too many, just as one execution of an innocent person is too many. Now, figure in all the high-profile rape accusations the left used to make their 'rape culture' arguments (UVA, Duke lacrosse team), and tell me why it isn't a problem?

These arguments don't exist in a vacuum. No one - literally no one - is suggesting false rape accusations don't happen. Neither is anyone suggesting it's not a serious crime to do so.

What is being suggested is that you don't get to say "we can't do anything to change society's attitude towards rape because of all the men who get falsely accused" when that statistic is so small it barely registers on a graph comparative to the overwhelmingly huge number of actual real rape cases that go absolutely nowhere. We have two problems here and one of them is a massive problem that is not being dealt with at all whereas the other is a much smaller problem that is already being dealt with effectively most of the time.

One person going to prison for a rape they didn't is too many, just as one execution of an innocent person is too many.

How many people getting away with rape is too many, in your opinion?
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I was falsely accused of sexual assault and almost expelled from high school with absolutely no evidence and was only cleared when her friend gave up a recording of her bragging about it to the principle of my school.

So no matter the stats I'll always be weary especially if they don't go to the police first. Sorry.
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Twin3Turbo posted...

ClunkerSlim posted...

pinky0926 posted...

The estimated number of false rape accusations are around 2-10% at the highest

The Duke Lacrosse team says hi.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

How does that go against what he said?

because incels don't understand how statistics work
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X-Pac_Heat posted...

I was falsely accused of sexual assault and almost expelled from high school with absolutely no evidence and was only cleared when her friend gave up a recording of her bragging about it to the principle of my school.

So no matter the stats I'll always be weary especially if they don't go to the police first. Sorry.

It's fair enough that you're wary and I'm sorry that that happened and surely she deserved worse than whatever happened to her, but there's another takeaway in this anecdote: you were exonerated and you were not expelled.
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What exactly is the point here? What do you mean change society's attitude towards rape? Rape is universally considered one of the most despicable crimes in our society.

Do you want people to be guilty until proven innocent or something?
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ClunkerSlim posted...

pinky0926 posted...

The estimated number of false rape accusations are around 2-10% at the highest

The Duke Lacrosse team says hi.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

I'm not sure why your 10 person specific anecdote trumps a history of american crime statistics over 20 years in various studies.
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fenderbender321 posted...

It depends on how you value things.

I would rather see 20 guilty men walk free than 1 single innocent man have his life wrongly ruined.

I'd rather we establish a culture that leads to less victims to begin with.
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TomNook20 posted...

What exactly is the point here? What do you mean change society's attitude towards rape? Rape is universally considered one of the most despicable crimes in our society.

Do you want people to be guilty until proven innocent or something?

We can all agree rape is bad but we can't seem to agree what rape is, when it happens, who to believe or how to prosecute against it. Women don't come forward, evidence is never sufficient, victims are not supported or believed and discouraged from all angles to pursue a case. Some people think there's a shelf life of about 4 hours in which you're allowed to report it. There's a lot to change.

It's interesting how "innocent until proven guilty" is a privilege never afforded to the rape victim, though.
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None of this dispells the argument that if we are all guilty until proven innocent then innocent people will undoubtedly be convicted, and in larger numbers. Believing one person over another with absolutely no corroborating evidence is completely unethical.
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pinky0926 posted...

X-Pac_Heat posted...

I was falsely accused of sexual assault and almost expelled from high school with absolutely no evidence and was only cleared when her friend gave up a recording of her bragging about it to the principle of my school.

So no matter the stats I'll always be weary especially if they don't go to the police first. Sorry.

It's fair enough that you're wary and I'm sorry that that happened and surely she deserved worse than whatever happened to her, but there's another takeaway in this anecdote: you were exonerated and you were not expelled.

Only because someone else felt bad and she was stupid for bragging.

There was no investigation made. They didn't even call the police. They just took her at her word.

I honestly should have sued I have no idea why I didnt.
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Twin3Turbo posted...

fenderbender321 posted...

It depends on how you value things.

I would rather see 20 guilty men walk free than 1 single innocent man have his life wrongly ruined.

I'd rather we establish a culture that leads to less victims to begin with.

It's fenderbender, just ignore him
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All accusations should be taken with a grain of salt until the evidence is in.
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SageHarpuia posted...

None of this dispells the argument that if we are all guilty until proven innocent then innocent people will undoubtedly be convicted, and in larger numbers. Believing one person over another with absolutely no corroborating evidence is completely unethical.

That was never the argument anyone was making.
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pinky0926 posted...

It's interesting how "innocent until proven guilty" is a privilege never afforded to the rape victim, though.

Oh so you're shitposting
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SageHarpuia posted...

pinky0926 posted...

It's interesting how "innocent until proven guilty" is a privilege never afforded to the rape victim, though.

Oh so you're shitposting

No, I'm quite serious about that one. It's interesting how "she's obviously a lying gold digging whore" is considered an acceptable position by some simply because they don't believe the story adds up from the few facts they've read.
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My main thing isn't that they believed her but they automatically judged me as guilty on her word alone.

Fuck. That. Nobody has any right saying that is okay especially if you've never faced that shit
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pinky0926 posted...

X-Pac_Heat posted...

I was falsely accused of sexual assault and almost expelled from high school with absolutely no evidence and was only cleared when her friend gave up a recording of her bragging about it to the principle of my school.

So no matter the stats I'll always be weary especially if they don't go to the police first. Sorry.

It's fair enough that you're wary and I'm sorry that that happened and surely she deserved worse than whatever happened to her, but there's another takeaway in this anecdote: you were exonerated and you were not expelled.

No, the takeaway is that he had to prove his innocence, and that is something our entire system of government is designed to prevent.
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What is this point supposed to be countering? There are not a ton of false accusations. That's not the problem. The problem is the willingness of the public to instantly judge someone for an accusation, regardless of its validity. Even if it's overturned, that person is still going to be forever marred by it.

pinky0926 posted...

SageHarpuia posted...

pinky0926 posted...

It's interesting how "innocent until proven guilty" is a privilege never afforded to the rape victim, though.

Oh so you're shitposting

No, I'm quite serious about that one. It's interesting how "she's obviously a lying gold digging whore" is considered an acceptable position by some simply because they don't believe the story adds up from the few facts they've read.

You can't even deny it, I refuse to believe you have such a warped view of reality to think that affording a defendant reasonable doubt is robbing the alleged victim of fairness.
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EbonTitanium posted...

All accusations should be taken with a grain of salt until the evidence is in.

Problem with rape accusations is that most "evidence" can be explained away. There is pretty much no way to know with any degree of certainty unless

1. There is a repeat pattern of the behavior/accusations from many different people
2. The offender admits it
3. It's caught on tape
4. It's statutory
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pinky0926 posted...

We can all agree rape is bad but we can't seem to agree what rape is, when it happens, who to believe or how to prosecute against it. Women don't come forward, evidence is never sufficient, victims are not supported or believed and discouraged from all angles to pursue a case. Some people think there's a shelf life of about 4 hours in which you're allowed to report it. There's a lot to change.

It's interesting how "innocent until proven guilty" is a privilege never afforded to the rape victim, though.

That's why we have a criminal justice system. When you accuse someone of a crime, there must be evidence to pursue a case against the person. I don't think I need to spell out how fucked up our society would be if accusations alone would be enough to throw people in a cage. The system isn't perfect, sure, and if you have specific suggestions on ways to improve it it would be interesting to hear and discuss, but the founding principle on protecting the innocent is non negotiable.

Your last sentence makes no sense at all. The accuser is not the one on trial facing jail time or worse. If the tables do get turned and a case is brought against that person for false accusation, then guess what, they are innocent until proven guilty just like anyone else.
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TomNook20 posted...

Your last sentence makes no sense at all. The accuser is not the one on trial facing jail time or worse. If the tables do get turned and a case is brought against that person for false accusation, then guess what, they are innocent until proven guilty just like anyone else.

The thing is that people with the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset in regards to rape allegations seems to always come with a lot of denigration of the accusers and suppositions about things they may be guilty of. That's why he said what he said.
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