Current Events > If everyone could stop calling a credible rape victim a liar that'd be great

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#151
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nemu
09/29/18 9:09:18 PM
#152:


shockthemonkey posted...
nemu posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
Did you listen to her testimony when she explained how memory is linked to trauma?

And again, that is not proof. Her explaining away why her story is flimsy does not make it less flimsy. Even if the accusations are 100% true, I am against him being prosecuted in the court of public opinion or legally if she cannot prove them. If they are true, I'm very sorry for her, and hopefully he'll get brought down by another victim who can recall enough details and provide enough evidence if one exists.

Ok while youre fine with a dude who probably tried to rape someone being on the Supreme Court

Im not

And you're basing that on nothing but one person's story, not looking at it at all critically because of feelings. You're obviously allowed your opinion either way, but you should at least be able admit this woman has no actual case with what is presented so far. Go ahead and say you believe her despite that if you want, but to say she has proven anything is disingenuous.
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:12:26 PM
#153:


nemu posted...
you should at least be able admit this woman has no actual case with what is presented so far.

Um no.
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darkjedilink
09/29/18 9:15:24 PM
#154:


shockthemonkey posted...
nemu posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
Did you listen to her testimony when she explained how memory is linked to trauma?

And again, that is not proof. Her explaining away why her story is flimsy does not make it less flimsy. Even if the accusations are 100% true, I am against him being prosecuted in the court of public opinion or legally if she cannot prove them. If they are true, I'm very sorry for her, and hopefully he'll get brought down by another victim who can recall enough details and provide enough evidence if one exists.

Ok while youre fine with a dude who probably tried to rape someone being on the Supreme Court

Im not

'Probable' based on what?
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:17:43 PM
#155:


Dragonblade01 posted...
It's amazing to me how people find this story both absolutely convincing and unequivocally false. The only reasonable position anyone can take after hearing this telling of events is to remain uncertain.


Precisely.
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:19:41 PM
#156:


darkjedilink posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
nemu posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
Did you listen to her testimony when she explained how memory is linked to trauma?

And again, that is not proof. Her explaining away why her story is flimsy does not make it less flimsy. Even if the accusations are 100% true, I am against him being prosecuted in the court of public opinion or legally if she cannot prove them. If they are true, I'm very sorry for her, and hopefully he'll get brought down by another victim who can recall enough details and provide enough evidence if one exists.

Ok while youre fine with a dude who probably tried to rape someone being on the Supreme Court

Im not

'Probable' based on what?

Evidence
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:21:13 PM
#157:


Man, our justice system is well and truly fucked if this is the kind of mentaility we're allowing going forward.
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#158
Post #158 was unavailable or deleted.
ledbowman
09/29/18 9:22:02 PM
#159:


Coffeebeanz posted...
Man, our justice system is well and truly fucked if this is the kind of mentaility we're allowing going forward.

Yeah he has no business on the SC.
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nemu
09/29/18 9:23:15 PM
#160:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
you should at least be able admit this woman has no actual case with what is presented so far.

Um no.

She remembers nothing important about the event that can actually help determine anything. She has nobody who has been able to corroborate at very minimum that such a party with such people even took place. The only thing she has presented is the assault itself, despite remembering nearly no other details, and some stuff that happened in 2012 that proves nothing at all besides the fact that she didn't think of this story yesterday. Maybe the event happened and the trauma has left her unable to recall those details, but if so, then unfortunately that just means she will forever be unable to make him face justice. Words alone cannot and should not affect a person's life.
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:23:55 PM
#161:


In before "evidence"
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HiddenLurker
09/29/18 9:25:27 PM
#162:


Conflict posted...
KingCrabCake posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
YourDrunkFather posted...
Clearly the intelligent thing to do is to take unsubstantiated accusations at face value. Nothing bad could ever come from that.

Ford has absolutely nothing to gain from this


Except $700,000


Which she's using towards security. But keep thinking rape victims are just out for the money, it's a pretty good look for you

Aside from the gofundme page that claims it what makes you think she is gonna use it for security. Furthermore it was not created by her.
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:27:31 PM
#163:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
you should at least be able admit this woman has no actual case with what is presented so far.

Um no.

She remembers nothing important about the event that can actually help determine anything. She has nobody who has been able to corroborate at very minimum that such a party with such people even took place. The only thing she has presented is the assault itself, despite remembering nearly no other details, and some stuff that happened in 2012 that proves nothing at all besides the fact that she didn't think of this story yesterday. Maybe the event happened and the trauma has left her unable to recall those details, but if so, then unfortunately that just means she will forever be unable to make him face justice. Words alone cannot and should not affect a person's life.

Ok, so the evidence doesn't convince you. Noted.
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darkjedilink
09/29/18 9:27:46 PM
#164:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
nemu posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
Dr. Ford gains absolutely nothing from doing this. She gave a credible testimony under oath. Fuck outta here thinking that believing her is politics.

And I'm asking you what makes her testimony "credible" .

And "X has nothing to gain from this" is a logical fallacy when used as an argument that subjective statements must be true.

Youre using credible to mean whatever I say wont count. She explained the trauma and explained under oath why she remembered what she remembered. She gains nothing from reliving any of that and being put in this fucking terrible spotlight, so I believe her over the drunk dude who didnt want to answer anything.

Watching those testimonies and pretending that siding with her is purely political is absolute bullshit.

I'm super confused why "having nothing to gain" lends any credence to why she should be believed. Her mental state is irrelevant in terms of proving things. Explaining away gaps in her memory still does not provide pertinent information needed to believe her statements. I feel like people are stuck on the emotions and not the actual facts needed to prove her accusations to a degree reasonable enough to declare this man guilty in the court of public opinion.

Oh yeah youre right she was definitely lying for no reason

I don't know for certain if she's lying, but I do know she has not proven her case. It's entirely possible she was never touched and has just developed a delusion. It is entirely possible she was assaulted by another person. I cannot say for sure, but what I can say is that no person should be believed with a flimsy story and no pertinent evidence. I don't understand why that is so hard for people to understand. No evidence = no crime, even if the crime happened. It's how our entire system works.

There is evidence.

There literally is not. She has offered no proof to her claims.
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darkjedilink
09/29/18 9:28:50 PM
#165:


shockthemonkey posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
Man, our justice system is well and truly fucked if this is the kind of mentaility we're allowing going forward.

Yeah real awful to not want a likely attempted rapist on the Supreme Court

'Likely' based on what?
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:29:14 PM
#166:


darkjedilink posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
nemu posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
Dr. Ford gains absolutely nothing from doing this. She gave a credible testimony under oath. Fuck outta here thinking that believing her is politics.

And I'm asking you what makes her testimony "credible" .

And "X has nothing to gain from this" is a logical fallacy when used as an argument that subjective statements must be true.

Youre using credible to mean whatever I say wont count. She explained the trauma and explained under oath why she remembered what she remembered. She gains nothing from reliving any of that and being put in this fucking terrible spotlight, so I believe her over the drunk dude who didnt want to answer anything.

Watching those testimonies and pretending that siding with her is purely political is absolute bullshit.

I'm super confused why "having nothing to gain" lends any credence to why she should be believed. Her mental state is irrelevant in terms of proving things. Explaining away gaps in her memory still does not provide pertinent information needed to believe her statements. I feel like people are stuck on the emotions and not the actual facts needed to prove her accusations to a degree reasonable enough to declare this man guilty in the court of public opinion.

Oh yeah youre right she was definitely lying for no reason

I don't know for certain if she's lying, but I do know she has not proven her case. It's entirely possible she was never touched and has just developed a delusion. It is entirely possible she was assaulted by another person. I cannot say for sure, but what I can say is that no person should be believed with a flimsy story and no pertinent evidence. I don't understand why that is so hard for people to understand. No evidence = no crime, even if the crime happened. It's how our entire system works.

There is evidence.

There literally is not. She has offered no proof to her claims.

Ok, so you don't know what evidence is. Noted.
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darkjedilink
09/29/18 9:29:27 PM
#167:


ledbowman posted...
darkjedilink posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
nemu posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
Did you listen to her testimony when she explained how memory is linked to trauma?

And again, that is not proof. Her explaining away why her story is flimsy does not make it less flimsy. Even if the accusations are 100% true, I am against him being prosecuted in the court of public opinion or legally if she cannot prove them. If they are true, I'm very sorry for her, and hopefully he'll get brought down by another victim who can recall enough details and provide enough evidence if one exists.

Ok while youre fine with a dude who probably tried to rape someone being on the Supreme Court

Im not

'Probable' based on what?

Evidence

Too bad there is none.
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nemu
09/29/18 9:29:52 PM
#168:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
you should at least be able admit this woman has no actual case with what is presented so far.

Um no.

She remembers nothing important about the event that can actually help determine anything. She has nobody who has been able to corroborate at very minimum that such a party with such people even took place. The only thing she has presented is the assault itself, despite remembering nearly no other details, and some stuff that happened in 2012 that proves nothing at all besides the fact that she didn't think of this story yesterday. Maybe the event happened and the trauma has left her unable to recall those details, but if so, then unfortunately that just means she will forever be unable to make him face justice. Words alone cannot and should not affect a person's life.

Ok, so the evidence doesn't convince you. Noted.

I bet you're the kind of person who will stick to the strictest definition of a word you like, but if someone uses a definition for a word you don't like you'll say the dictionary doesn't matter.
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:30:01 PM
#169:


The closest things she has to "evidence" are:

A friend who doesn't remember the party, and was never told about it until now, but believes her.

Therapist notes about an assault with no names, locations or even time.

A polygraph test that does not mention Kavanaugh at all.

A husband who believes her.

And three named witnesses who all say they dont remember anything.

Boy, that's a hell of a case you built there
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HiddenLurker
09/29/18 9:30:53 PM
#170:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
you should at least be able admit this woman has no actual case with what is presented so far.

Um no.

She remembers nothing important about the event that can actually help determine anything. She has nobody who has been able to corroborate at very minimum that such a party with such people even took place. The only thing she has presented is the assault itself, despite remembering nearly no other details, and some stuff that happened in 2012 that proves nothing at all besides the fact that she didn't think of this story yesterday. Maybe the event happened and the trauma has left her unable to recall those details, but if so, then unfortunately that just means she will forever be unable to make him face justice. Words alone cannot and should not affect a person's life.

Ok, so the evidence doesn't convince you. Noted.

Dude if testimony = evidence. He testified he did not do it. Therefore by your own logic he is innocent.
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:31:54 PM
#171:


He testified he did not do it. Therefore by your own logic he is innocent.

Her friend* believes her

*doesn't even remember if party existed
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darkjedilink
09/29/18 9:35:15 PM
#172:


ledbowman posted...
Ok, so you don't know what evidence is. Noted.

Your own definition in this thread proves my point.
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:36:09 PM
#173:


Coffeebeanz posted...
The closest things she has to "evidence" are:

A friend who doesn't remember the party, and was never told about it until now, but believes her.

Therapist notes about an assault with no names, locations or even time.

A polygraph test that does not mention Kavanaugh at all.

A husband who believes her.

And three named witnesses who all say they dont remember anything.

Boy, that's a hell of a case you built there

Yes. This is evidence, even as hard as you try to skew it against her. Also:

Attorneys for Christine Blasey Ford, who has accused Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault while they were both in high school, have released sworn statements from four people supporting Fords story about the alleged assault. Kavanaugh has denied the claims.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/26/17905538/christine-blasey-ford-witnesses-kavanaugh-confirmation-hearing
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:38:22 PM
#174:


HiddenLurker posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
you should at least be able admit this woman has no actual case with what is presented so far.

Um no.

She remembers nothing important about the event that can actually help determine anything. She has nobody who has been able to corroborate at very minimum that such a party with such people even took place. The only thing she has presented is the assault itself, despite remembering nearly no other details, and some stuff that happened in 2012 that proves nothing at all besides the fact that she didn't think of this story yesterday. Maybe the event happened and the trauma has left her unable to recall those details, but if so, then unfortunately that just means she will forever be unable to make him face justice. Words alone cannot and should not affect a person's life.

Ok, so the evidence doesn't convince you. Noted.

Dude if testimony = evidence. He testified he did not do it. Therefore by your own logic he is innocent.

Yes, this too is evidence, used to determine facts. Good job.
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chrono625
09/29/18 9:38:54 PM
#175:


The only thing I got from this topic is ledbowman thinks he/she can decide what determines something being evidence or not.
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Dragonblade01
09/29/18 9:39:17 PM
#176:


The question of his guilt is still inconclusive.
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nemu
09/29/18 9:40:02 PM
#177:


ledbowman posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
The closest things she has to "evidence" are:

A friend who doesn't remember the party, and was never told about it until now, but believes her.

Therapist notes about an assault with no names, locations or even time.

A polygraph test that does not mention Kavanaugh at all.

A husband who believes her.

And three named witnesses who all say they dont remember anything.

Boy, that's a hell of a case you built there

Yes. This is evidence, even as hard as you try to skew it against her. Also:

Attorneys for Christine Blasey Ford, who has accused Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault while they were both in high school, have released sworn statements from four people supporting Fords story about the alleged assault. Kavanaugh has denied the claims.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/26/17905538/christine-blasey-ford-witnesses-kavanaugh-confirmation-hearing

Who cares if she told people decades later? It only proves she didn't concoct this story just recently. She didn't tell them anything relevant enough to actually provide details. They can at best prove that her current recollection is consistent with what she told them.
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:40:36 PM
#178:


Do you seriously get your news from fucking Vox
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HiddenLurker
09/29/18 9:41:23 PM
#179:


ledbowman posted...
HiddenLurker posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
you should at least be able admit this woman has no actual case with what is presented so far.

Um no.

She remembers nothing important about the event that can actually help determine anything. She has nobody who has been able to corroborate at very minimum that such a party with such people even took place. The only thing she has presented is the assault itself, despite remembering nearly no other details, and some stuff that happened in 2012 that proves nothing at all besides the fact that she didn't think of this story yesterday. Maybe the event happened and the trauma has left her unable to recall those details, but if so, then unfortunately that just means she will forever be unable to make him face justice. Words alone cannot and should not affect a person's life.

Ok, so the evidence doesn't convince you. Noted.

Dude if testimony = evidence. He testified he did not do it. Therefore by your own logic he is innocent.

Yes, this too is evidence, used to determine facts. Good job.

The point

Pluto

Moon

Your head
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:42:56 PM
#180:


Coffeebeanz posted...
Do you seriously get your news from fucking Vox

Where's the wrong part?
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:43:42 PM
#181:


ledbowman posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
Do you seriously get your news from fucking Vox

Where's the wrong part?


Aside from the fact that the people who signed that document all stated that she never mentioned Kavanaugh to them?

You're throwing so many fucking foul balls I'm not even sure the game can proceed.
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:44:32 PM
#182:


nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
The closest things she has to "evidence" are:

A friend who doesn't remember the party, and was never told about it until now, but believes her.

Therapist notes about an assault with no names, locations or even time.

A polygraph test that does not mention Kavanaugh at all.

A husband who believes her.

And three named witnesses who all say they dont remember anything.

Boy, that's a hell of a case you built there

Yes. This is evidence, even as hard as you try to skew it against her. Also:

Attorneys for Christine Blasey Ford, who has accused Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault while they were both in high school, have released sworn statements from four people supporting Fords story about the alleged assault. Kavanaugh has denied the claims.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/26/17905538/christine-blasey-ford-witnesses-kavanaugh-confirmation-hearing

Who cares if she told people decades later? It only proves she didn't concoct this story just recently. She didn't tell them anything relevant enough to actually provide details. They can at best prove that her current recollection is consistent with what she told them.

It is evidence.
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:45:58 PM
#183:


It is evidence

Evidence that she told people that someone in the past assaulted her.

You're not even on first base. Hell you're not even in the stadium.
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nemu
09/29/18 9:46:26 PM
#184:


ledbowman posted...
nemu posted...
ledbowman posted...
Coffeebeanz posted...
The closest things she has to "evidence" are:

A friend who doesn't remember the party, and was never told about it until now, but believes her.

Therapist notes about an assault with no names, locations or even time.

A polygraph test that does not mention Kavanaugh at all.

A husband who believes her.

And three named witnesses who all say they dont remember anything.

Boy, that's a hell of a case you built there

Yes. This is evidence, even as hard as you try to skew it against her. Also:

Attorneys for Christine Blasey Ford, who has accused Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault while they were both in high school, have released sworn statements from four people supporting Fords story about the alleged assault. Kavanaugh has denied the claims.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/9/26/17905538/christine-blasey-ford-witnesses-kavanaugh-confirmation-hearing

Who cares if she told people decades later? It only proves she didn't concoct this story just recently. She didn't tell them anything relevant enough to actually provide details. They can at best prove that her current recollection is consistent with what she told them.

It is evidence.

It's like you think you're proving a point, but you don't actually understand the words you'e using.
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:47:10 PM
#185:


You all sure like to think because she didn't say his name it isn't evidence. I understand stand you're short on material though.
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darkjedilink
09/29/18 9:48:17 PM
#186:


ledbowman posted...
You all sure like to think because she didn't say his name it isn't evidence. I understand stand you're short on material though.

If she didn't say it was Kavanaugh, it cannot be evidence that Kavanaugh did anything.

You do understand that, right?
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:48:50 PM
#187:


darkjedilink posted...
ledbowman posted...
You all sure like to think because she didn't say his name it isn't evidence. I understand stand you're short on material though.

If she didn't say it was Kavanaugh, it cannot be evidence that Kavanaugh did anything.

You do understand that, right?

Lol no.
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:48:52 PM
#188:


ledbowman posted...
You all sure like to think because she didn't say his name it isn't evidence. I understand stand you're short on material though.


It's because that's exactly what it means.

She told a vague story with no details to a bunch of people a long time ago.

Suddenly now she has razor sharp details. Except they don't retroactively make those stories specific. That's why literally no one has come forward and said "I remember this"
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darkjedilink
09/29/18 9:49:08 PM
#189:


Dragonblade01 posted...
The question of his guilt is still inconclusive.

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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:49:58 PM
#190:


Coffeebeanz posted...
ledbowman posted...
You all sure like to think because she didn't say his name it isn't evidence. I understand stand you're short on material though.


It's because that's exactly what it means.

She told a vague story with no details to a bunch of people a long time ago.

Suddenly now she has razor sharp details. Except they don't retroactivity make those stories specific. That's why literally no one has come forward and said "I remember this"

Research what evidence is.
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:50:37 PM
#191:



Research what evidence is.


Buddy, you'd make Dunning-Kruger proud.
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:51:21 PM
#192:


I can repost the definition it if will help.
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darkjedilink
09/29/18 9:51:50 PM
#193:


ledbowman posted...
I can repost the definition it if will help.

The definition you already posted proves us right.
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:51:58 PM
#194:


No thanks, I can't even see the goalposts at this point.
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ledbowman
09/29/18 9:54:55 PM
#195:


darkjedilink posted...
ledbowman posted...
I can repost the definition it if will help.

The definition you already posted proves us right.

It doesn't, but do your worst. This should be good.
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bevan306
09/29/18 9:55:26 PM
#196:


her testimony was evidence, and she came off as intelligent and sincere. His testimony was also evidence, and he came off as an angry and petulant drunk, frothing at the mouth about democrats and hillary clinton. No one should be surprised that people believe her and not him
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Coffeebeanz
09/29/18 9:56:31 PM
#197:


bevan306 posted...
her testimony was evidence, and she came off as intelligent and sincere. His testimony was also evidence, and he came off as an angry and petulant drunk, frothing at the mouth about democrats and hillary clinton. No one should be surprised that people believe her and not him


Did you seriously think this was a logical statement
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Polycosm
09/29/18 9:57:52 PM
#198:


Kavanaugh perjured himself again on Thursday. He was plainly dishonest about the vocabulary he used in his yearbook, his claims about never passing out have been refuted by several classmates and contradict the written record, and his avoidant attitude towards the FBI investigation is simply not the way that an innocent person would act. I don't know that he's a rapist but I know that he's not credible and he's hiding something.
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bevan306
09/29/18 10:02:11 PM
#199:


Coffeebeanz posted...
bevan306 posted...
her testimony was evidence, and she came off as intelligent and sincere. His testimony was also evidence, and he came off as an angry and petulant drunk, frothing at the mouth about democrats and hillary clinton. No one should be surprised that people believe her and not him


Did you seriously think this was a logical statement


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/77048253/909604560
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Dragonblade01
09/29/18 10:03:45 PM
#200:


Oh my god.

Yes, testimony is a form of evidence.

That doesn't make it conclusive.
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