Current Events > This whole Kavenaugh thing reminds of the Duke scandal.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Have you learned nothing from the Duke Lacrosse debacle? There is a reason that we have a system of justice that presumes innocence until guilt is proven. I'm not saying she's lying. I'm not saying he didn't do it. I am saying that the burden of proof is on her, not him, to prove that he did it, and frankly, she's at a disadvantage.

She doesn't remember where it happened, when it happened, anyone else besides Kavanaugh and Judge that were at the party, and the fact that human memory is notoriously unreliable, which only gets worse with the passage of time. Add alcohol on top of ALL of that? I'm not seeing guilt beyond a reasonable doubt here...hell, I'm not even seeing a preponderance of the evidence standard in a civil case.

That's just the allegation itself, now we start adding in the convenient timing of the allegation and the self described motivation for making the allegation? Yeah, no, I'm not just going to listen and believe here, and I'm not going to take, at face value, this person's story as gospel and ruin a person's career over it. Again, I point to the Duke lacrosse team as proof of what happens when we get caught up in the emotions of the witch hunt and the dangers of listen and believe.

So we just ignoring proof now?
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Well said, TC.
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This woman has a lot more to lose than a stripper and this is a far higher profile case. The moment you call a judges ethics into question is a career killer.
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I believe she believes what she is saying. I also think it's flimsy af and should not be used as proof against him. Memories evolve over time, and alcohol, etc.
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Nomadic View posted...

Well said, TC.

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Agnostic420 posted...

There is a reason that we have a system of justice that presumes innocence until guilt is proven.

I wasn't aware he was being imprisoned without a trial on a presumption of being guilty.

Agnostic420 posted...

Have you learned nothing from the Duke Lacrosse debacle? There is a reason that we have a system of justice that presumes innocence until guilt is proven. I'm not saying she's lying. I'm not saying he didn't do it. I am saying that the burden of proof is on her, not him, to prove that he did it, and frankly, she's at a disadvantage.

She doesn't remember where it happened, when it happened, anyone else besides Kavanaugh and Judge that were at the party, and the fact that human memory is notoriously unreliable, which only gets worse with the passage of time. Add alcohol on top of ALL of that? I'm not seeing guilt beyond a reasonable doubt here...hell, I'm not even seeing a preponderance of the evidence standard in a civil case.

That's just the allegation itself, now we start adding in the convenient timing of the allegation and the self described motivation for making the allegation? Yeah, no, I'm not just going to listen and believe here, and I'm not going to take, at face value, this person's story as gospel and ruin a person's career over it. Again, I point to the Duke lacrosse team as proof of what happens when we get caught up in the emotions of the witch hunt and the dangers of listen and believe.

You get it. Thank god because I felt like I was going crazy...

This whole thing is utterly insane.
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Thinking Trump is above the law should have disqualified him immediately tbh. Although any judge Trump nominates is going to be corrupt as shit since that's the kind of person Trump gravitates towards.
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Kavanaugh should have been pulled for numerous reasons before any of these allegations surfaced anyway.

And no, it's fundamentally different from the Duke scandal and it's lazy to equate the two
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"Why don't women just come forward when stuff happens?"
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tc's a vegas shooting truther btw
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EnragedSlith posted...

This woman has a lot more to lose than a stripper and this is a far higher profile case. The moment you call a judges ethics into question is a career killer.

It depends I mean people have been really putting their politics front and centre a lot there was a college professor who was smashing people over the head with bike locks as part of AntiFA.

In this case she might really care about abortion being legal.

Also are you serious? This won't damage her earnings potential, her career yes but it opens up the other avenue of being supported by activists as she's almost martyr at this stage career wise and apparently as we saw with the Women's march you can still advocate for applying sharia law to all women in the USA and be considered an activist these days as long as you're hating on Trump and the "right" people at the same time.

billcom6 posted...

"Why don't women just come forward when stuff happens?"

because Feminists like Suey Parks (who has admittedly left that group and become far more sane since) advocate for not trusting the police, not going to the police and instead spreading the names round to try and build momentum for a witch hunt against the accused.

Dwavenhobble posted...

billcom6 posted...

"Why don't women just come forward when stuff happens?"

because Feminists like Suey Parks (who has admittedly left that group and become far more sane since) advocate for not trusting the police, not going to the police and instead spreading the names round to try and build momentum for a witch hunt against the accused.

uhhh people have been scared to come forward with sexual assault accusations since like the beginning of time
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this isnt a court of law and criminal case. this is a confirmation hearing on the fitness of a man who will shape the future laws of this nation.

behavior and perspective matter.
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This is why I wear a hidden camera at all times, to prevent this sort of thing from happening

Blue_Inigo posted...

So we just ignoring proof now?

What proof? Not being a smartass but all I've seen is an accusation.
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hockeybub89 posted...

Dwavenhobble posted...

billcom6 posted...

"Why don't women just come forward when stuff happens?"

because Feminists like Suey Parks (who has admittedly left that group and become far more sane since) advocate for not trusting the police, not going to the police and instead spreading the names round to try and build momentum for a witch hunt against the accused.

uhhh people have been scared to come forward with sexual assault accusations since like the beginning of time

yeh but we kind of don't live in a society that would burn them as witches or something stupid like that anymore.

I mean we live in an age where people are believed and getting seen to as soon as possible is literally the best course of action because of potential evidence like certain damage that occurs during a rape can be catalogued thus making a stronger case against the person. (I watched Gone Girl before anyone asks why I know this)

Dwavenhobble posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Dwavenhobble posted...

billcom6 posted...

"Why don't women just come forward when stuff happens?"

because Feminists like Suey Parks (who has admittedly left that group and become far more sane since) advocate for not trusting the police, not going to the police and instead spreading the names round to try and build momentum for a witch hunt against the accused.

uhhh people have been scared to come forward with sexual assault accusations since like the beginning of time

yeh but we kind of don't live in a society that would burn them as witches or something stupid like that anymore.

I mean we live in an age where people are believed and getting seen to as soon as possible is literally the best course of action because of potential evidence like certain damage that occurs during a rape can be catalogued thus making a stronger case against the person. (I watched Gone Girl before anyone asks why I know this)

Gone Girl is not a valid source and people aren't only scared to report sexual assault because they might be burned as witches. They might not want to think about the traumatic experience. They might not want to be judged as weak or loose or whatever. Everyone doesn't think rationally after suffering trauma.
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spudger posted...

this isnt a court of law and criminal case. this is a confirmation hearing on the fitness of a man who will shape the future laws of this nation.

behavior and perspective matter.

You've gone more of a case really with the "I wan't people in my law office who look like models" than with whatever he did at 17 drunk at a party unless you can prove he actually was trying to rape her.

I know people who are managers who drunk at 20 fell asleep in phones boxes or tried to steal Ice Cream trucks.

hockeybub89 posted...

Dwavenhobble posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Dwavenhobble posted...

billcom6 posted...

"Why don't women just come forward when stuff happens?"

because Feminists like Suey Parks (who has admittedly left that group and become far more sane since) advocate for not trusting the police, not going to the police and instead spreading the names round to try and build momentum for a witch hunt against the accused.

uhhh people have been scared to come forward with sexual assault accusations since like the beginning of time

yeh but we kind of don't live in a society that would burn them as witches or something stupid like that anymore.

I mean we live in an age where people are believed and getting seen to as soon as possible is literally the best course of action because of potential evidence like certain damage that occurs during a rape can be catalogued thus making a stronger case against the person. (I watched Gone Girl before anyone asks why I know this)

Gone Girl is not a valid source and people aren't only scared to report sexual assault because they might be burned as witches. They might not want to think about the traumatic experience. They might not want to be judged as weak or loose or whatever. Everyone doesn't think rationally after suffering trauma.

Jut checked wikipedia........... it's actually fairly accurate actually in that respect.

We should have a non-partisan group of some kind investigating these allegations.

Gee, I wonder if anybody's brought that up