Current Events > What communism did to Romania

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://rolandia.eu/romania-ceausescu-communist-regime/

Pretty good read. It's a high-level summary, but touches on the economic stagnation, widespread hunger and death, massive indoctrination and propaganda campaigns, and ultimate collapse of the country into a civil war to overthrow the commies. (The commies lost in the end)
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not real communism
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Severe rationing, poverty, starvation, widespread propaganda/indoctrination, and violence are certainly synonymous with real communism.
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Communism means the proletariat is in power.

It's a dictatorship of the proletariat.

But a dictatorship can't be effectively conducted by millions of people.

So all the power is vested in one person.

He acts for the proletariat. The vanguard.

He's the dictator.

In short, communism is just dictatorship where one person and his small group of entourage take all the riches for themselves.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Severe rationing, poverty, starvation, widespread propaganda/indoctrination, and violence are certainly synonymous with real communism.

you're being dishonest
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Severe rationing, poverty, starvation, widespread propaganda/indoctrination, and violence are certainly synonymous with real communism.

you're being dishonest

No I'm not.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Severe rationing, poverty, starvation, widespread propaganda/indoctrination, and violence are certainly synonymous with real communism.

you're being dishonest

Don't worry, I'm sure joel will come in to let us know about how this all secretly capitalism's fault.
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wow, never knew about this

pretty awful stuff

s0nicfan posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Severe rationing, poverty, starvation, widespread propaganda/indoctrination, and violence are certainly synonymous with real communism.

you're being dishonest

Don't worry, I'm sure joel will come in to let us know about how this all secretly capitalism's fault.

American Imperialism forced the socialists in Romania to implement severe rationing of food, electricity, gas, oil, and every other basic necessity.
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Who exactly is trying to control the citizens

ok
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dontIoseyourway posted...

wow, never knew about this

pretty awful stuff

Most people don't know about it. Or about how it got so bad in the Soviet Union that parents had to start eating their own children and vice versa.

There were literally human meat markets where people who died would be sold because there was nothing else to eat. They had already eaten all the pets / farm animals / wild animals. There are pictures, true. Really fucking gruesome.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Severe rationing, poverty, starvation, widespread propaganda/indoctrination, and violence are certainly synonymous with real communism.

you're being dishonest

No I'm not.

then you're ignorant because nothing in communist theory implies that any of those things are mandatory. in fact, it aims to avoid every single one of those things.

i dont even agree with communism, i just dislike ignorance and bullshit arguments.

maybe you're trying to say that in the instances we've seen communism attempted those things continuously happen. fine. but none of those implementations were following the true spirit of the philosophy and to suggest the philosophy itself promotes "widespread poverty" is either dishonest or ignorant.

it's just as dishonest or ignorant as those who suggest that capitalism inherently exploits workers.
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I visited Romania for two weeks while it was still under the Ceausescu regime. It didn't strike me as a particularly happy place.

Giant_Aspirin posted...

but none of those implementations were following the true spirit of the philosophy.

probably because it requires the impossible, for humans to not be corrupt

communism only works in a fantasy world
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Severe rationing, poverty, starvation, widespread propaganda/indoctrination, and violence are certainly synonymous with real communism.

you're being dishonest

No I'm not.

then you're ignorant because nothing in communist theory implies that any of those things are mandatory. in fact, it aims to avoid every single one of those things.

i dont even agree with communism, i just dislike ignorance and bullshit arguments.

maybe you're trying to say that in the instances we've seen communism attempted those things continuously happen. fine. but none of those implementations were following the true spirit of the philosophy.

Marx explicitly advocated for a violent revolution, and "for each according to his needs, from each according to his ability", both of which lead to horrors like these when they are implemented.

And also they lead to propaganda machines, silencing the non-compliant because they threaten the revolution, etc.

Why don't you just leave the topic if you don't agree with communism? LMFAO
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Why don't you just leave the topic if you don't agree with communism? LMFAO

Giant_Aspirin posted...

i dont even agree with communism, i just dislike ignorance and bullshit arguments.

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MC_BatCommander posted...

Giant_Aspirin posted...

but none of those implementations were following the true spirit of the philosophy.

probably because it requires the impossible, for humans to not be corrupt

communism only works in a fantasy world

i can say the same thing about capitalism. it only 'works' when people play by the rules. but we've learned time and time again that people don't play by the rules because greed, which is why we've implemented regulations.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

Who exactly is trying to control the citizens

Communism doesn't work because human beings are inherently selfish. Even if we have true altruistic goals, if someone has power and believes what they are doing is right, they will go ahead and do it.

Communism assumed that human beings have the capacity to all together be altruistic and be fine with what they can have. You can say this is capitalistic if you want, but humans don't want to be "fine", they want to thrive.
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Communism doesn't work because human beings are inherently selfish.

That's not really it.

The more selfish humans are, the more there is a need for a strong central government to protect the poor and weak members of society.

The main difference between the ideas of Thomas Hobbes and John Locke is exactly to that point.

One big problem with communism is, well first of all Marx wrote his manifesto at the tail end of the industrial revolution. That was a very specific time in human history that had specific challenges. The struggles of the proletariat at the end of the industrial revolution are so far removed from the 21st century that it makes no sense to try to apply those ideas today.

Marx said that the proletariat "has nothing to lose but their chains." That's pretty telling about the conditions of the working class during the mid 19th century. We're not talking about minimum wage here.
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Giant_Aspirin posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Severe rationing, poverty, starvation, widespread propaganda/indoctrination, and violence are certainly synonymous with real communism.

you're being dishonest

"This time, it will work!"
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Communism doesn't work because human beings are inherently selfish.

Works on the micro scale. Not all human beings are inherently selfish (parents make plenty of sacrifices for their children), but not many are entirely unselfish.

frozenshock posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Communism doesn't work because human beings are inherently selfish.

That's not really it.

The more selfish humans are, the more there is a need for a strong central government to protect the poor and weak members of society.

The main difference between the ideas of Thomas Hobbes and John Locke is exactly to that point.

One big problem with communism is, well first of all Marx wrote his manifesto at the tail end of the industrial revolution. That was a very specific time in human history that had specific challenges. The struggles of the proletariat at the end of the industrial revolution are so far removed from the 21st century that it makes no sense to try to apply those ideas today.

Marx said that the proletariat "has nothing to lose but their chains." That's pretty telling about the conditions of the working class during the mid 19th century. We're not talking about minimum wage here.

I'm not disagreeing with these sentiments. I mean that the transition to true Marxism (assuming that Communism is seen as a means to an end, not the end itself) will never work past the communism phase. Even if the job of a thousand people is to eventually have the people own everything themselves and transition to that point, guaranteed some of those in that thousand will abuse the system and create a situation that benefits themselves, "their people", or they'll have slightly different visions of what makes the best system and thus you have a break down.
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It's really weird how some people who are vocal about not being commies or supporting communism are so often engaging in commie apologetics. HMMMMMMMM....
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lol
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Topic on CE about communism ruining a country, how long until we get "no true Scotsman"?
Post #2: No true Scotsman!!!!

CE never fails to disappoint.
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frozenshock posted...

EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH ME IS A COMMIE

Axiom's the type of CEman to literally see averagejoel openly call himself a commie and then still run his mouth about me doing that.

lmfao
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"Marge, I agree with you in theory. In theory, communism works. In theory." Homer Simpson

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clearaflagrantj posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Who exactly is trying to control the citizens

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who the fuck keeps posting
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clearaflagrantj posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Who exactly is trying to control the citizens

Proudclad you weak fucking sister I know you didn't ignore me drop the act and tell me who THE FUCK is trying to control the citizens

The nuances of and between Communism, socialism, Democratic socialism, are highly important.

Democratic Socialism, like any other limits on freedoms, should only be done when absolutely necessary, like with free speech, we obviously limit it to point of threats, perjury, etc because we need to, to maintain a free, stable, and functioning society but it's not what we're suppose to strive for. It's a short jaunt from "necessary restrictions any rational mind would agree on" to "oppressive complete negation of the right".

So, with socialized programs, it should always be a tool of last resort.
Communism though, it's a fucking non-starter.
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@gunplagirl

Another day, another topic where Proudclad bitches about communism.

Cant wait for the next gimmick change.
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I don't think the creation of Janissaries is synonymous with communism.
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Communism doesn't work because you remove the human competitive element from the equation. It's competition that leads us to be better and do better. That's when innovation happens (iPhone anyone?). When you tell me people they don't have to do better, progress stops, ambition stops, innovation stops and you have stagnation.

Communism will always fail, not because people are selfish, it's because people are competitive by nature. You take away that humanity away and all you have left are zombies.
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You know what else works in theory? Jilly Juice. In theory, drinking a gallon of Jilly Juice a day will let you re-grow amputated limbs.

In practice, it gives you a stroke.
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shockthemonkey posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

Another day, another topic where Proudclad bitches about communism.

Cant wait for the next gimmick change.

Who/what do you think hell worship next? I feel hell go through some pseudo-patriotic troop worship at some point, probably when hes middle aged.

Idk. He was his Christian gimmick when I came here and then he just dropped it to be a tech/taxes guy and now hes all about communism. I could definitely see him being a crazy support the troops or leave! type person tho.
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bump
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keyboard communists forget that human nature (laziness, greed, etc.) exist and that not everyone is going to be a fucking butthole piece of shit hippie 24/7
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