Current Events > Just beat Detroit: Become Human. We need more immersive games! *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

First off, just coming off Nier: Automata leaves me with a VERY positive impression of games centered around androids.

But Detroit in particular was just so... great! Games like this are usually meh. Like Heavy Rain and Beyond 2 Souls. Both underwhelming.

But to play this game blind is just so powerful. I really tried to get into character for the 3 protagonists instead of using power of omnipotence or projecting my beliefs on to my choices.

Like, the games use of the HUD and your conditioning from video games to augment the games theme of deviancy is brilliant! When the game gives you the objective Dont Move! as Kara...! I was confused. I KNOW I needed to stop the dad. But... the game (my programming) told me to not move...!? Do I disobey? But I need to listen to the instruction. But why? Because I have to? No, I dont... that moment was a powerful revelation to me! Adult-child dynamics are pretty hard to screw up. But the fact my Kara had shit luck the entire game, where typically the worst event happened, made me stressed on how her story would end.

I tried hard to make my Conner focused on the mission. It only made sense. I was from CyberLife. Even if it means chasing a deviant and a little girl through highway traffic (God that sequence was heart-pounding. Me vs Me with a little girl screaming as cars whistled by.). But time and time again Conner would make choices that didnt make logical sense. Saving Hank instead of catching the deviant? Stopping a massacre at the news station? I always justified as to help the mission, but when I couldnt bring myself to execute Chloe...! It called my bluff.

Markus was my antagonist at first. Betrayed by humans, it only made sense vengeance was my goal. I started peacefully. I only wanted the son. Jericho was a side ordeal. But I realized how much I could actually do. I decided to fight when my peaceful requests were met with disdain. Little by little my thresholds to violence diminished. Until human life was no longer a concern. But liabilities could not be tolerated. Simon was injured. He had to die. Even Conner, who Markus masterfully manipulated into deviancy had to die.

But to have Kara (and Alice)s fate at the camp be decided by who would win against the two titans: The deviant now in denial who was used by both sides, Conner. Or the flag bearer and savior of his people, Markus. It turned my Conner into the tragic villain. And Markus the driven hero.

Like holy shit, its insane how what I get from playing this game is COMPLETELY different from what someone else can get from the game. As a writer, and an empath in general, this was a stellar experience. There was no world wide stakes for the most part. It was just Detroit. But the presentation was phenomenal.

Too bad games like this arent mainstream. I dont consider myself a gamer, but the last two I played have been unforgettable.
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That game sucked
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It is my mission to shitpost on CE.

And I always accomplish my mission.
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I also loved it!! Best Quantic Dream game to date.
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Irony posted...

That game sucked

Verdekal posted...

It is my mission to shitpost on CE.

And I always accomplish my mission.

This is basically the kind of discussion you're gonna get here on CE when it comes to David Cage games. Glad you liked it though.
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Press X to paint something sad
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Banjo2553 posted...

Irony posted...

That game sucked

Verdekal posted...

It is my mission to shitpost on CE.

And I always accomplish my mission.

This is basically the kind of discussion you're gonna get here on CE when it comes to David Cage games. Glad you liked it though.

Those games are depressing.
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Banjo2553 posted...

Irony posted...

That game sucked

Verdekal posted...

It is my mission to shitpost on CE.

And I always accomplish my mission.

This is basically the kind of discussion you're gonna get here on CE when it comes to David Cage games. Glad you liked it though.

I wish people would explain why. If you go into it saying lolDavid Cage, the hell, why bother.

Bad people can make good things. I dont even know anything about the guy. But the game is well made. Even the main menu is interactive. She is constantly changing because of your choices and responses. These inanimate things can illicit compassion from me.

I dunno. Maybe Im soft or something. But I really enjoyed it. Course, now having the ability to look at this game on sites lead to my discovery that its been memed.
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David Cages only good game imo.
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

I wish people would explain why. If you go into it saying lolDavid Cage, the hell, why bother.

Bad people can make good things. I dont even know anything about the guy. But the game is well made. Even the main menu is interactive. She is constantly changing because of your choices and responses. These inanimate things can illicit compassion from me.

No one thinks Cage is a bad person, only that his games are uninspired and badly-written, which wouldn't be so bad if they the gameplay were more engaging than being just a serious of bland quicktime events.
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We need more games that are fun. Not pretentious "press x to contemplate life" ass games.
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Sephiroth1288 posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I wish people would explain why. If you go into it saying lolDavid Cage, the hell, why bother.

Bad people can make good things. I dont even know anything about the guy. But the game is well made. Even the main menu is interactive. She is constantly changing because of your choices and responses. These inanimate things can illicit compassion from me.

No one thinks Cage is a bad person, only that his games are uninspired and badly-written, which wouldn't be so bad if they the gameplay were more engaging than being just a serious of bland quicktime events.

Yea after the Ellen Paige fiasco he is a bad person.
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spikethedevil posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I wish people would explain why. If you go into it saying lolDavid Cage, the hell, why bother.

Bad people can make good things. I dont even know anything about the guy. But the game is well made. Even the main menu is interactive. She is constantly changing because of your choices and responses. These inanimate things can illicit compassion from me.

No one thinks Cage is a bad person, only that his games are uninspired and badly-written, which wouldn't be so bad if they the gameplay were more engaging than being just a serious of bland quicktime events.

Yea after the Ellen Paige fiasco he is a bad person.

Not familiar with that...
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Sephiroth1288 posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I wish people would explain why. If you go into it saying lolDavid Cage, the hell, why bother.

Bad people can make good things. I dont even know anything about the guy. But the game is well made. Even the main menu is interactive. She is constantly changing because of your choices and responses. These inanimate things can illicit compassion from me.

No one thinks Cage is a bad person, only that his games are uninspired and badly-written, which wouldn't be so bad if they the gameplay were more engaging than being just a serious of bland quicktime events.

Detroit is well made. Whether you like story games that focus on story-telling and immersion over gameplay, you cant tell me with a straight face it isnt. From the music, to how the game weaves its motifs into your actions.

What makes Detroit badly written? Link me something if you do not wish to explain. I know Im late to the party of discussing this game.
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Lathissamus posted...

We need more games that are fun. Not pretentious "press x to contemplate life" ass games.

We have plenty of those, actually. Id say not enough of the complex ones. Admittedly, the experience I had with Detroit wasnt what Id call fun, but engaging. You dont describe a book, or movie as fun often times. Though I understand some people prefer games in their more common form.
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Sephiroth1288 posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I wish people would explain why. If you go into it saying lolDavid Cage, the hell, why bother.

Bad people can make good things. I dont even know anything about the guy. But the game is well made. Even the main menu is interactive. She is constantly changing because of your choices and responses. These inanimate things can illicit compassion from me.

No one thinks Cage is a bad person, only that his games are uninspired and badly-written, which wouldn't be so bad if they the gameplay were more engaging than being just a serious of bland quicktime events.

Yea after the Ellen Paige fiasco he is a bad person.

Not familiar with that...

Their is a fully rendered nude model of her in Beyond Two Souls which was made without her permission.
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

Lathissamus posted...

We need more games that are fun. Not pretentious "press x to contemplate life" ass games.

We have plenty of those, actually. Id say not enough of the complex ones. Admittedly, the experience I had with Detroit wasnt what Id call fun, but engaging. You dont describe a book, or movie as fun often times. Though I understand some people prefer games in their more common form.

Pretentious response.
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spikethedevil posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I wish people would explain why. If you go into it saying lolDavid Cage, the hell, why bother.

Bad people can make good things. I dont even know anything about the guy. But the game is well made. Even the main menu is interactive. She is constantly changing because of your choices and responses. These inanimate things can illicit compassion from me.

No one thinks Cage is a bad person, only that his games are uninspired and badly-written, which wouldn't be so bad if they the gameplay were more engaging than being just a serious of bland quicktime events.

Yea after the Ellen Paige fiasco he is a bad person.

Not familiar with that...

Their is a fully rendered nude model of her in Beyond Two Souls which was made without her permission.

Is anyone really surprised? Look how much violence there is against women in his games.
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the game sucked but had some good scenes. id play a game based around hank and conner (and not written by david cage)
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Heavy Rain was awesome idk how you can like DBH but not it. man. when that came out, the first time thru, omg. the 5 trials holy fuck. mindblowing stuff.
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Cage games are style over substance. Music, models, animation, lighting etc are all fantastic.

But in terms of story, he writes everyone from the perspective of a sheltered white man and often makes his characters stereotypes.

He also has a very high opinion of his writing that isn't shared by most people. Once you look past the surface his games are nonsensically written.
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Ive said it before and it hasnt stopped being true

If David Cage and his studio were Japanese, there would be nothing but universal praise for these games.

All the things people criticize him and his games for, are the exact same things people eat up in more Japanese style games.

More cinematic than gameplay?
Weird plots that often get nonsensical?
Gross sexuality?
Awful dialogue?

If David Cage were someone like Hideo Kojima he could make the exact same game and completely get away with it. Expectations I guess?

I think those criticisms are way over blown for Heavy Rain and Detroit. Both are excellent games. Detroit especially, its remarkably well done.
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Lathissamus posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Lathissamus posted...

We need more games that are fun. Not pretentious "press x to contemplate life" ass games.

We have plenty of those, actually. Id say not enough of the complex ones. Admittedly, the experience I had with Detroit wasnt what Id call fun, but engaging. You dont describe a book, or movie as fun often times. Though I understand some people prefer games in their more common form.

Pretentious response.

Im sure the response that doesnt criticize the opposing side is the pretentious one. Clearly.

LightningAce11 posted...

But in terms of story, he writes everyone from the perspective of a sheltered white man and often makes his characters stereotypes.

I dont see the sheltered white guy perspective, but stereotypes are definitely present. Though I dont think stereotypes cant be used interestingly.
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spikethedevil posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

cuttin_in_farm posted...

I wish people would explain why. If you go into it saying lolDavid Cage, the hell, why bother.

Bad people can make good things. I dont even know anything about the guy. But the game is well made. Even the main menu is interactive. She is constantly changing because of your choices and responses. These inanimate things can illicit compassion from me.

No one thinks Cage is a bad person, only that his games are uninspired and badly-written, which wouldn't be so bad if they the gameplay were more engaging than being just a serious of bland quicktime events.

Yea after the Ellen Paige fiasco he is a bad person.

Not familiar with that...

Their is a fully rendered nude model of her in Beyond Two Souls which was made without her permission.

Wtf? What a creep, I knew there had to be some reason he wanted her likeness rather than just making a fictional face.

SwayM posted...

All the things people criticize him and his games for, are the exact same things people eat up in more Japanese style games.

More cinematic than gameplay?
Weird plots that often get nonsensical?
Gross sexuality?
Awful dialogue?

The Japanese games that do this generally embrace the fact that they're gratuitous. Cage games pretend to be some form of high art, which makes them way more infuriating to sit through.

And don't you ever compare Kojima to Cage again, you heathen.
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Sephiroth1288 posted...

The Japanese games that do this generally embrace the fact that they're gratuitous. Cage games pretend to be some form of high art, which makes them way more infuriating to sit through.

And don't you ever compare Kojima to Cage again, you heathen.

You realize in one post you called David Cage games pretending to be high art and defended Hideo Kojima

The guy who slaps his name at the beginning and end of every single mission in MGSV. Like hes the Spielberg of video games.

Who thinks the weirder the camera angle and the more lens flairs, the better the scene

Who so far up his own ass with ridiculous nonsense stories that take themselves way too seriously

Who put a 71 minute final cutscene in one of his games

Who has quickly surrounded himself with popular Hollywood actors and directors

Who has a game in development that weve seen multiple lengthy trailers for and no one has ANY fucking idea WHAT that game is about.

When you defend that dude and say its purposefully gratuitous youre fully admitting its noticeably worse, in every conceivable way. Cage, for the most part, attempts to make a far more grounded and cohesive experience, gets labeled as pretentious and trying to hard to be high art
Kojima can do all the shit I just said, and more, and you go oh thats just his style, you know what youre getting in for or whatever way you defend that. Youre just proving my point to the letter. Japanese dude gets away with it completely and you hate on Cage in quite the display of mental gymnastics.

Also dont mistake my my pointing out this hypocrisy as purely spite for Kojima. Thats definitely not the case, and not what this is about.
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I don't get why people are mad at David Cage for the naked Elen Page model

He didn't make the 3D models guys. Some guys on the team did
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I don't get why people are mad at David Cage for the naked Elen Page model

He didn't make the 3D models guys. Some guys on the team did

And he would have known and did nothing to stop/ never had it changed and may have even ordered it.
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If I wasnt on my phone and also so lazy Id make a quick meme of the guy peddling the bike who puts a stick in his own spoke with him cursing out David Cage

Literally the amount of hate he gets you would think he personally came to each and every one of their homes and spit in their mothers mouths.
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spikethedevil posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I don't get why people are mad at David Cage for the naked Elen Page model

He didn't make the 3D models guys. Some guys on the team did

And he would have known and did nothing to stop/ never had it changed and may have even ordered it.

Why would he have known?

Isn't the only way to see it like screwing with the camera or photo mode or something?
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Detroit is the legitimate best QuanticDream game. If you want pure trashy schlock, Indigo Prophecy is unrivaled. Heavy Rain is somewhere in the middle. Beyond Two Souls is easily the worst of the four and doesn't even have any schlock value to it. No clue on Omikron.

At least, that's my opinion after seeing playthrough videos of them online. Detroit's the only one to make me actually want to play it for myself, but I haven't gotten to it yet. Someday though.

SwayM posted...

If David Cage and his studio were Japanese, there would be nothing but universal praise for these games.

All the things people criticize him and his games for, are the exact same things people eat up in more Japanese style games.

Typically I find a lot of the people who hate the nonsensical plots and dialogue in David Cage games are also the kinds who constantly trashtalk "dumb anime bullshit" as well, so I disagree.

Another difference is while Japanese games often embrace or acknowledge their insanity or excessive nature, or have moments of comic relief for levity, David Cage games constantly take themselves super seriously despite how nonsensical they get. Some people can't enjoy stuff that's trashy but takes itself super seriously. I totally can though. In fact, I kinda like it more, especially when the ones that acknowledge themselves or try to have some levity rely heavily on sooooo wacky audio or visual cues to do so, like all the characters shouting "WHAAAAAAAAT" as the screen wobbles around and a stock spring sound effect plays.

I really couldn't get into it. I remember liking heavy rain more
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SwayM posted...

You realize in one post you called David Cage games pretending to be high art and defended Hideo Kojima

The guy who slaps his name at the beginning and end of every single mission in MGSV. Like hes the Spielberg of video games.

Who thinks the weirder the camera angle and the more lens flairs, the better the scene

Who so far up his own ass with ridiculous nonsense stories that take themselves way too seriously

Who put a 71 minute final cutscene in one of his games

If you think the MGS games take themselves too seriously then you need to play them again or something, because they fully crossed the line into self-parody by MGS4 and were tongue-in-cheek secret agent shlock before that.
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We get it sway-m, you have a fetish for hating on kojima... no need to shove it in every topic...
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UnfairRepresent posted...

spikethedevil posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I don't get why people are mad at David Cage for the naked Elen Page model

He didn't make the 3D models guys. Some guys on the team did

And he would have known and did nothing to stop/ never had it changed and may have even ordered it.

Why would he have known?

Isn't the only way to see it like screwing with the camera or photo mode or something?

Because he was behind the entire game.
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bevan306 posted...

I really couldn't get into it. I remember liking heavy rain more

Heavy Rain is fucking terrible lol.
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spikethedevil posted...

bevan306 posted...

I really couldn't get into it. I remember liking heavy rain more

Heavy Rain is fucking terrible lol.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I'd say Heavy Rain was better than become Human.

It had a better plot at least.
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I wasnt interested in Heavy Rain because it didnt give me a reason. Only the police guy had an interesting perspective.

The others didnt leave much freedom in how theyre portrayed.
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Um no it really didn't and I still want to know how the fuck the car killed Jason when the car itself was going at a slow speed on impact and Ethan took the damn impact.

The whole thing falls apart in the first chapter.
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

I wasnt interested in Heavy Rain because it didnt give me a reason.

And Detroit did? O_o

"Some guy is going to slowly kill mah fucking son!" is no reason

But "We want you to go find some androids/run away from people going to find some androids." is?

ok

spikethedevil posted...

Um no it really didn't and I still want to know how the fuck the car killed Jason when the car itself was going at a slow speed on impact and Ethan took the damn impact.

I guess the large man leaping on him severed his spine or something.

I can't be too mad for Heavy Rain for that. Video games always get in trouble for depiciting harm to kids. If like the car ripped off his face mortal kombat style and the torso went flying into someone's cup of coffee, the game would be banned
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cuttin_in_farm posted...

I really tried to get into character for the 3 protagonists instead of using power of omnipotence or projecting my beliefs on to my choices.

That's the reason I didn't like Detroit as much as Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls. Getting into the character of androids was just too farfetched for me. Like, even playing as a ghost (Aiden) made more sense.

It's like you mentioned Connor's choices not making "logical" sense. It just kind of broke my immersion in the game and I stopped playing almost halfway through. I also watched my wife play it right before I did though and knew they general story, which is another reason why I didn't care to finish it.

The story is bananas and makes no sense but I still kinda like its visuals and it was compelling enough to make me finish and look up stuff I didn't do.

I like that Kara can flat out die in almost every chapter including literally her first one.
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Second_Chances posted...

Another difference is while Japanese games often embrace or acknowledge their insanity or excessive nature, or have moments of comic relief for levity, David Cage games constantly take themselves super seriously despite how nonsensical they get.

That is the difference between Anime and Western storytelling, it's not a David Cage thing. Western is played more serious and Japanese can get super goofy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDqeFQKOyrM" data-time="

As for moments of levity, the game uses them sparingly, but they are there. Not that this is an actual critique against the game. Maybe it's a preferential thing, but it's not a slight against the game that it wants a more serious tone. Many different types of mediums are allowed to be as serious as they want. Plenty of movies, shows, comics, whatever, that have little to no humour because that's the tone they're going for. Why is Cage not allowed to do that exactly? Again other than preference.

Sephiroth1288 posted...

If you think the MGS games take themselves too seriously then you need to play them again or something, because they fully crossed the line into self-parody by MGS4 and were tongue-in-cheek secret agent shlock before that.

I think there's a fine line between the content of the game being total clown car, but as a game director presenting it like it's the most compelling shit ever created. He mixes that cheese with some semblance of a story and tries to play it as serious as he possbily can for as long as he can. It's a tonal trainwreck at times. That's Hideos style whether you like it or not and people eat it up and let him do it. Which is a luxury no one is giving to David Cage, getting back to my point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQx_VG4S2Vc" data-time="

Dudes like this wouldn't spend a moment talking about this shit if it were all just a big joke, but no people have spent a lot of time (with varying success) attempting analyze MGS on a higher level. And good for you if you're into it on that level.

My point is exactly that a Japanese developer like Hideo can get as silly or serious as he wants at the drop of a hat and people follow him for the ride and eat it up at every turn. David Cage makes a handful of games with a pretty consistent tone and a few curve balls here and there and they roast him over the fire.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

And Detroit did? O_o

"Some guy is going to slowly kill mah fucking son!" is no reason

But "We want you to go find some androids/run away from people going to find some androids." is?

ok

Yes? Them being androids is irrelevant. I see each of them in a normal setting before shit goes down. I grow connected to Alice much more than Jason. Heavy Rain assumes because its a father looking for son that Im spose to be invested.

Vertania posted...

It's like you mentioned Connor's choices not making "logical" sense. It just kind of broke my immersion in the game and I stopped playing almost halfway through.

I didnt mean it this way. I meant how when given the choice of say, objectively doing the mission(catch deviant), or helping others out of concern, my Conner would help others instead but attempt to justify why it was for the mission. Denying his own deviancy. It wasnt until I met the creator dude that this was revealed to me.

I dont see where people are getting bad story views. Its pretty straightforward. Nor is it crazy. Markus starts rebellion. Conner tries to stop it. Kara just wants to protect Alice.

Whats crazy?
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After Beyond: Two Souls, I didn't have much faith in David Cage. So I decided not to take the game seriously.

I made Kara move to see if I could, since it locked me at dinner. I actually wanted to see what would happen if I let Todd beat daughter, but I made Kara deviant. I tried hard to let Karl die, and Toddler caught her in the hallway. I got to skip her portions.

I loved Connor, and his interactions with Hank. Honestly I just wanted to see how bad I could make it for the androids, so my Connor cared not for deviants. But I couldn't leave Hank hanging, even if he's a douche.

I made Markus fail everything always, and be pacifist.
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Detroit: Become Human is the best narrative game so far IMO. The choices and consequences and the production values are unmatched.

I don't think the plot takes itself as seriously as people say. It's basically the Rise of the Planet Apes trilogy with androids.
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Sephiroth1288 posted...

Press X to paint something sad

Alexa, play despacito
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catboy0_0 posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

Press X to paint something sad

Kara, play despacito

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>David Cage
>immersive

*coughing fit of laughter*
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Such lame responses. Seriously.
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This is probably the most interesting critique of the game I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwVERl0OYjc" data-time="

I agree with many of its points, but I still believe the game was not meant to be taken that seriously.

As for other David Cage games, Detroit never reaches the level of "what in the actual hell is on my screen right now" as games like Omikron and Beyond: Two Souls. This game and Heavy Rain are good ones imo, but he certainly has his stinkers.
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