Current Events > Man Star Trek the next generation drops so many profound statements

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pegusus123456 08/26/18 4:20:03 PM #103:	jpenny2 posted... Instead, they took the easy road at almost every turn and eventually became TNG 2.0 Something I remember SFDebris mentioning is that Voyager originally wasn't its own show. It was initially meant to be TNG season 8. --- https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT So? I deeded to some gay porn. It doesn't mean anything. - Patty_Fleur <cite>pegusus123456 posted [p:907586583] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>Instead, they took the easy road at almost every turn and eventually became TNG 2.0</quote> Something I remember SFDebris mentioning is that Voyager originally wasn't its own show. It was initially meant to be TNG season 8.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/26/18 4:30:17 PM #104:	pegusus123456 posted... jpenny2 posted... Instead, they took the easy road at almost every turn and eventually became TNG 2.0 Something I remember SFDebris mentioning is that Voyager originally wasn't its own show. It was initially meant to be TNG season 8. I guess that could explain it. But it seems rather pointless to have the ship in the Delta Quadrant with a bunch of Maquis on board when they weren't interested in telling that kind of story. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907587161] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>pegusus123456 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>Instead, they took the easy road at almost every turn and eventually became TNG 2.0</quote> Something I remember SFDebris mentioning is that Voyager originally wasn't its own show. It was initially meant to be TNG season 8.</quote> I guess that could explain it. But it seems rather pointless to have the ship in the Delta Quadrant with a bunch of Maquis on board when they weren't interested in telling that kind of story.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 08/26/18 6:36:17 PM #105:	jpenny2 posted... I think I remember reading somewhere that the producers never wanted to have have much friction between the Starfleet and Maquis crew members, and that's why there were so few episodes that actually dealt with that. But why introduce such an interesting premise if they were never going to use it? They may as well have had one standard Starfleet crew and simply given them a different reason for entering the Badlands. IIRC, basically, the writers crafted this brand new scenario where the Maquis and Starfleet would have to work together to create a new proto-Federation in the Delta Quadrant with limited resources and more moral compromises. Then the execs saw it and where like, "That sounds risky. Just make it TNG 2.0 instead" and so they threw the entire plot out the window. jpenny2 posted... I agree with Chakotay being an offensive caricature. And this is made all the worse by the fact that his being Native American is his entire character. With the Maquis stuff being dropped so quickly, almost every episode that focuses on him--and mind you, that's not many episodes--is about some aspect of his made up culture. Other than that, he's a generic first officer with little in the way of personality and no outstanding traits or skills. Yeah, there wasn't much for him to do once they dropped the Maquis storyline and forgot that half the crew wasn't trained at Starfleet. He basically just walked around spouting, "My people have a story ... " tangents that inevitably lead to some sort of cliche like vision quests or spirit guides. After awhile, he sort of got into the Riker role of falling for the woman of the week, and some of those episodes were okay, like the aforementioned liberated Borg one, or the one with the people who no one can remember. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907593884] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>I think I remember reading somewhere that the producers never wanted to have have much friction between the Starfleet and Maquis crew members, and that's why there were so few episodes that actually dealt with that. But why introduce such an interesting premise if they were never going to use it? They may as well have had one standard Starfleet crew and simply given them a different reason for entering the Badlands.</quote> IIRC, basically, the writers crafted this brand new scenario where the Maquis and Starfleet would have to work together to create a new proto-Federation in the Delta Quadrant with limited resources and more moral compromises. Then the execs saw it and where like, "That sounds risky. Just make it TNG 2.0 instead" and so they threw the entire plot out the window. <cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>I agree with Chakotay being an offensive caricature. And this is made all the worse by the fact that his being Native American is his entire character. With the Maquis stuff being dropped so quickly, almost every episode that focuses on him--and mind you, that's not many episodes--is about some aspect of his made up culture. Other than that, he's a generic first officer with little in the way of personality and no outstanding traits or skills.</quote> Yeah, there wasn't much for him to do once they dropped the Maquis storyline and forgot that half the crew wasn't trained at Starfleet. He basically just walked around spouting, "My people have a story ... " tangents that inevitably lead to some sort of cliche like vision quests or spirit guides. After awhile, he sort of got into the Riker role of falling for the woman of the week, and some of those episodes were okay, like the aforementioned liberated Borg one, or the one with the people who no one can remember.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/26/18 9:16:07 PM #106:	Dash_Harber posted... IIRC, basically, the writers crafted this brand new scenario where the Maquis and Starfleet would have to work together to create a new proto-Federation in the Delta Quadrant with limited resources and more moral compromises. Then the execs saw it and where like, "That sounds risky. Just make it TNG 2.0 instead" and so they threw the entire plot out the window. I guess they made the decision to go with a safer, more marketable show. But it's really too bad they weren't willing to take some risks like DS9 did. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907602120] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>IIRC, basically, the writers crafted this brand new scenario where the Maquis and Starfleet would have to work together to create a new proto-Federation in the Delta Quadrant with limited resources and more moral compromises. Then the execs saw it and where like, "That sounds risky. Just make it TNG 2.0 instead" and so they threw the entire plot out the window. </quote> I guess they made the decision to go with a safer, more marketable show. But it's really too bad they weren't willing to take some risks like DS9 did.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 08/26/18 9:29:21 PM #107:	I love TNG, but DS9 is still the best Trek for me out of everything I've ever seen / watched which is most of it. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:907602805] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>I love TNG, but DS9 is still the best Trek for me out of everything I've ever seen / watched which is most of it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 08/26/18 9:30:43 PM #108:	jpenny2 posted... Dash_Harber posted... IIRC, basically, the writers crafted this brand new scenario where the Maquis and Starfleet would have to work together to create a new proto-Federation in the Delta Quadrant with limited resources and more moral compromises. Then the execs saw it and where like, "That sounds risky. Just make it TNG 2.0 instead" and so they threw the entire plot out the window. I guess they made the decision to go with a safer, more marketable show. But it's really too bad they weren't willing to take some risks like DS9 did. Yeah, Voyager was an exercise in playing it safe. IIRC, they also created the Caretaker's mate so that they could teleport Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant if the premise didn't work out. There were so many things that could have been better; - Maquis/Starfleet friction. - Pirate Neelix. - Year of Hell as a season (I feel like The Killing Game could have been an awesome season, too). - The Hirogen only showed up in like four episodes. They were a gimmick that ended up being an exploration of Star Trek's races and a total deconstruction of the 'planet of hats' concept. - The show was originally supposed to include an evil Federation that was formed from the various antagonist races (including the Vidians and the Sikarians) to combat Voyager, which would have been awesome role reversal. The concept was sort of used with the Dominion in DS9 later. - The show also was going to have Voyager actually create a frontier Federation to survive. They showed it a bit in the last season episode about The Void, which was great. - B'Elanna was originally supposed to be Ro Laren from TNG, creating some continuity. Ro Laren was originally also supposed to take Kyra's place in DS9. - Janeway was written incredibly inconsistently. It was frustrating, because she was very badass a few times, but came off a bit bipolar. To be fair, though, if any captain was justified in being a bit erratic, she definitely had rights to it. - Offing Kes instead of Harry. As I said, Kes would have been elderly by the end of the series and she's a powerful psychic. It's still got some great episodes and great moments, but it's just frustrating to see what could have been. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907602878] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>IIRC, basically, the writers crafted this brand new scenario where the Maquis and Starfleet would have to work together to create a new proto-Federation in the Delta Quadrant with limited resources and more moral compromises. Then the execs saw it and where like, "That sounds risky. Just make it TNG 2.0 instead" and so they threw the entire plot out the window. </quote> I guess they made the decision to go with a safer, more marketable show. But it's really too bad they weren't willing to take some risks like DS9 did.</quote> Yeah, Voyager was an exercise in playing it safe. IIRC, they also created the Caretaker's mate so that they could teleport Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant if the premise didn't work out. There were so many things that could have been better; - Maquis/Starfleet friction. - Pirate Neelix. - Year of Hell as a season (I feel like The Killing Game could have been an awesome season, too). - The Hirogen only showed up in like four episodes. They were a gimmick that ended up being an exploration of Star Trek's races and a total deconstruction of the 'planet of hats' concept. - The show was originally supposed to include an evil Federation that was formed from the various antagonist races (including the Vidians and the Sikarians) to combat Voyager, which would have been awesome role reversal. The concept was sort of used with the Dominion in DS9 later. - The show also was going to have Voyager actually create a frontier Federation to survive. They showed it a bit in the last season episode about The Void, which was great. - B'Elanna was originally supposed to be Ro Laren from TNG, creating some continuity. Ro Laren was originally also supposed to take Kyra's place in DS9. - Janeway was written incredibly inconsistently. It was frustrating, because she was very badass a few times, but came off a bit bipolar. To be fair, though, if any captain was justified in being a bit erratic, she definitely had rights to it. - Offing Kes instead of Harry. As I said, Kes would have been elderly by the end of the series and she's a powerful psychic. It's still got some great episodes and great moments, but it's just frustrating to see what could have been.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/26/18 9:46:31 PM #109:	KamenRiderBlade posted... I love TNG, but DS9 is still the best Trek for me out of everything I've ever seen / watched which is most of it. This is the way I feel, too. TNG will always be my favorite, probably because I grew up with it. But I do feel DS9 is slightly better overall. Dash_Harber posted... Yeah, Voyager was an exercise in playing it safe. IIRC, they also created the Caretaker's mate so that they could teleport Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant if the premise didn't work out. There were so many things that could have been better; - Maquis/Starfleet friction. - Pirate Neelix. - Year of Hell as a season (I feel like The Killing Game could have been an awesome season, too). - The Hirogen only showed up in like four episodes. They were a gimmick that ended up being an exploration of Star Trek's races and a total deconstruction of the 'planet of hats' concept. - The show was originally supposed to include an evil Federation that was formed from the various antagonist races (including the Vidians and the Sikarians) to combat Voyager, which would have been awesome role reversal. The concept was sort of used with the Dominion in DS9 later. - The show also was going to have Voyager actually create a frontier Federation to survive. They showed it a bit in the last season episode about The Void, which was great. - B'Elanna was originally supposed to be Ro Laren from TNG, creating some continuity. Ro Laren was originally also supposed to take Kyra's place in DS9. - Janeway was written incredibly inconsistently. It was frustrating, because she was very badass a few times, but came off a bit bipolar. To be fair, though, if any captain was justified in being a bit erratic, she definitely had rights to it. - Offing Kes instead of Harry. As I said, Kes would have been elderly by the end of the series and she's a powerful psychic. It's still got some great episodes and great moments, but it's just frustrating to see what could have been. All of that sounds better than what we got. The inconsistencies in Janeway's character have always bothered me, too. I feel like no matter how she acted, the writers almost always made sure she was in the right. I get the feeling that they were trying to portray her as a strong female lead and didn't want her to come across as weak, but I think more moments of uncertainty, like we got in the episode Night, would have made her a more realistic character. I wish we had seen a more vulnerable side of her more often. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907603647] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>KamenRiderBlade posted...</cite> <quote>I love TNG, but DS9 is still the best Trek for me out of everything I've ever seen / watched which is most of it.</quote> This is the way I feel, too. TNG will always be my favorite, probably because I grew up with it. But I do feel DS9 is slightly better overall. <cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>Yeah, Voyager was an exercise in playing it safe. IIRC, they also created the Caretaker's mate so that they could teleport Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant if the premise didn't work out. There were so many things that could have been better; - Maquis/Starfleet friction. - Pirate Neelix. - Year of Hell as a season (I feel like The Killing Game could have been an awesome season, too). - The Hirogen only showed up in like four episodes. They were a gimmick that ended up being an exploration of Star Trek's races and a total deconstruction of the 'planet of hats' concept. - The show was originally supposed to include an evil Federation that was formed from the various antagonist races (including the Vidians and the Sikarians) to combat Voyager, which would have been awesome role reversal. The concept was sort of used with the Dominion in DS9 later. - The show also was going to have Voyager actually create a frontier Federation to survive. They showed it a bit in the last season episode about The Void, which was great. - B'Elanna was originally supposed to be Ro Laren from TNG, creating some continuity. Ro Laren was originally also supposed to take Kyra's place in DS9. - Janeway was written incredibly inconsistently. It was frustrating, because she was very badass a few times, but came off a bit bipolar. To be fair, though, if any captain was justified in being a bit erratic, she definitely had rights to it. - Offing Kes instead of Harry. As I said, Kes would have been elderly by the end of the series and she's a powerful psychic. It's still got some great episodes and great moments, but it's just frustrating to see what could have been.</quote> All of that sounds better than what we got. The inconsistencies in Janeway's character have always bothered me, too. I feel like no matter how she acted, the writers almost always made sure she was in the right. I get the feeling that they were trying to portray her as a strong female lead and didn't want her to come across as weak, but I think more moments of uncertainty, like we got in the episode Night, would have made her a more realistic character. I wish we had seen a more vulnerable side of her more often.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 08/26/18 9:48:07 PM #110:	jpenny2 posted... This is the way I feel, too. TNG will always be my favorite, probably because I grew up with it. But I do feel DS9 is slightly better overall. TNG will always be my 2nd favorite after DS9. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:907603727] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>This is the way I feel, too. TNG will always be my favorite, probably because I grew up with it. But I do feel DS9 is slightly better overall. </quote>TNG will always be my 2nd favorite after DS9.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BeyondWalls 08/26/18 9:57:17 PM #111:	The Admiral posted... The is the iconic quote of the series, in one of the best scenes and best episodes Trek has ever done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1L3URogjWI" data-time=" You're right. Geordi shouting "Coolant Leak!" probably is the most iconic quotes of the series. <cite>BeyondWalls posted [p:907604235] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>The is the iconic quote of the series, in one of the best scenes and best episodes Trek has ever done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1L3URogjWI" data-time="</quote> You're right. Geordi shouting "Coolant Leak!" probably is the most iconic quotes of the series.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pikachupwnage 08/26/18 9:59:43 PM #112:	BeyondWalls posted... The Admiral posted... The is the iconic quote of the series, in one of the best scenes and best episodes Trek has ever done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1L3URogjWI" data-time=" You're right. Geordi shouting "Coolant Leak!" probably is the most iconic quotes of the series. I mean it does happen a lot. --- https://imgur.com/cfZmEFd Even In sigs FOE! http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/665/328/d75.gif <cite>pikachupwnage posted [p:907604369] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>BeyondWalls posted...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>The is the iconic quote of the series, in one of the best scenes and best episodes Trek has ever done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1L3URogjWI" data-time="</quote> You're right. Geordi shouting "Coolant Leak!" probably is the most iconic quotes of the series.</quote> I mean it does happen a lot.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/26/18 10:04:06 PM #113:	KamenRiderBlade posted... jpenny2 posted... This is the way I feel, too. TNG will always be my favorite, probably because I grew up with it. But I do feel DS9 is slightly better overall. TNG will always be my 2nd favorite after DS9. They're both great. As much as I love TNG, I feel like it has more low points than DS9. The first season is just awful; it's trying way too hard to be TOS, and it just doesn't work anymore. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907604594] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>KamenRiderBlade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>This is the way I feel, too. TNG will always be my favorite, probably because I grew up with it. But I do feel DS9 is slightly better overall. </quote>TNG will always be my 2nd favorite after DS9.</quote> They're both great. As much as I love TNG, I feel like it has more low points than DS9. The first season is just awful; it's trying way too hard to be TOS, and it just doesn't work anymore.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pikachupwnage 08/26/18 10:07:26 PM #114:	jpenny2 posted... KamenRiderBlade posted... jpenny2 posted... This is the way I feel, too. TNG will always be my favorite, probably because I grew up with it. But I do feel DS9 is slightly better overall. TNG will always be my 2nd favorite after DS9. They're both great. As much as I love TNG, I feel like it has more low points than DS9. The first season is just awful; it's trying way too hard to be TOS, and it just doesn't work anymore. Riker's beard saved the show --- https://imgur.com/cfZmEFd Even In sigs FOE! http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/665/328/d75.gif <cite>pikachupwnage posted [p:907604755] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>KamenRiderBlade posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>This is the way I feel, too. TNG will always be my favorite, probably because I grew up with it. But I do feel DS9 is slightly better overall. </quote>TNG will always be my 2nd favorite after DS9.</quote> They're both great. As much as I love TNG, I feel like it has more low points than DS9. The first season is just awful; it's trying way too hard to be TOS, and it just doesn't work anymore.</quote> Riker's beard saved the show</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/26/18 10:23:06 PM #115:	pikachupwnage posted... Riker's beard saved the show --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907605592] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>pikachupwnage posted...</cite> <quote>Riker's beard saved the show</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kafkaf 08/26/18 11:03:29 PM #116:	pikachupwnage posted... Riker's beard shaved the show --- https://imgur.com/Zy2iT20 <cite>Kafkaf posted [p:907607695] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>pikachupwnage posted...</cite> <quote> Riker's beard shaved the show</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jumi 08/27/18 3:43:19 AM #117:	Originally Tom Riker was going to be on Voyager. Instead he got sent to rot away in a Cardassian prison. I guess Jonathan Frakes didn't want to play another Star Trek role for seven years. --- XBL Gamertag: Rob Thorsman Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/robertvsilvers <cite>jumi posted [p:907617150] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>Originally Tom Riker was going to be on Voyager. Instead he got sent to rot away in a Cardassian prison. I guess Jonathan Frakes didn't want to play another Star Trek role for seven years.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pegusus123456 08/27/18 3:48:51 AM #118:	Dash_Harber posted... - The show also was going to have Voyager actually create a frontier Federation to survive. They showed it a bit in the last season episode about The Void, which was great. The Agony Booth wrote an article mentioning the episode "Alliances" where Janeway decides to try and ally with some Delta Quadrant races. It ultimately doesn't work out (of course) and they maintain that this episode is essentially where Star Trek died. This episode had the potential to completely change the series. Instead of a constant barrage of pointless episodes where they find a way home, only to lose it in the last few minutes, the show could have been about Voyager making pacts and trying to form a new federation of sorts. This new federation wouldnt have been anything like the old one, of course. It would have been far rougher around the edges, and a lot less concerned with doing things by the book. So what happens at the end of Alliances? Voyagers potential allies end up backstabbing them. Janeway breaks off all negotiations, and makes a pointed speech to her crew about sticking to Starfleet principles, no matter what. And with that, the ship merrily cruised off into the status quo. In retrospect, that was probably the moment the Trek franchise died. Oh sure, it continued on for nearly ten years after that. Two more seasons of Deep Space Nine, five more seasons of Voyager, four of Enterprise, and even two feature films with the TNG crew. But it was over. Because that speech was the signal that from here on out, no chances would ever be taken with the franchise. It was now Star Trek, Incorporated, and when you tuned into Voyager every week, you knew you were getting the same product, just in slightly different packaging. And no matter what events transpired over the course of the episode, you could rest assured that the ol reset button would be pushed in the final five minutes, and everything would go back to the way it was. --- https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT So? I deeded to some gay porn. It doesn't mean anything. - Patty_Fleur <cite>pegusus123456 posted [p:907617287] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>- The show also was going to have Voyager actually create a frontier Federation to survive. They showed it a bit in the last season episode about The Void, which was great.</quote> The Agony Booth wrote an article mentioning the episode "Alliances" where Janeway decides to try and ally with some Delta Quadrant races. It ultimately doesn't work out (of course) and they maintain that this episode is essentially where Star Trek died. <quote>This episode had the potential to completely change the series. Instead of a constant barrage of pointless episodes where they find a way home, only to lose it in the last few minutes, the show could have been about Voyager making pacts and trying to form a new federation of sorts. This new federation wouldnt have been anything like the old one, of course. It would have been far rougher around the edges, and a lot less concerned with doing things by the book. So what happens at the end of Alliances? Voyagers potential allies end up backstabbing them. Janeway breaks off all negotiations, and makes a pointed speech to her crew about sticking to Starfleet principles, no matter what. And with that, the ship merrily cruised off into the status quo. In retrospect, that was probably the moment the Trek franchise died. Oh sure, it continued on for nearly ten years after that. Two more seasons of Deep Space Nine, five more seasons of Voyager, four of Enterprise, and even two feature films with the TNG crew. But it was over. Because that speech was the signal that from here on out, no chances would ever be taken with the franchise. It was now Star Trek, Incorporated, and when you tuned into Voyager every week, you knew you were getting the same product, just in slightly different packaging. And no matter what events transpired over the course of the episode, you could rest assured that the ol reset button would be pushed in the final five minutes, and everything would go back to the way it was.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sariana21 08/27/18 3:02:03 PM #119:	jumi posted... Originally Tom Riker was going to be on Voyager. Instead he got sent to rot away in a Cardassian prison. I guess Jonathan Frakes didn't want to play another Star Trek role for seven years. Who would choose the Khardassians over Star Trek?!? ~~j/k~~ --- ___ Sari, Mom to DS (07/04) and DD (01/08) <cite>Sariana21 posted [p:907640893] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jumi posted...</cite> <quote>Originally Tom Riker was going to be on Voyager. Instead he got sent to rot away in a Cardassian prison. I guess Jonathan Frakes didn't want to play another Star Trek role for seven years.</quote> Who would choose the Khardassians over Star Trek?!? j/k</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peter_Griffin33 08/27/18 3:03:28 PM #120:	Shotgunnova posted... Temba, his arms open Sokath! His eyes open, his brow unfurled! --- Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/ReallyBadGaming Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/chucky2srevenge <cite>Peter_Griffin33 posted [p:907640960] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Shotgunnova posted...</cite> <quote>Temba, his arms open</quote> Sokath! His eyes open, his brow unfurled!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 08/27/18 7:54:02 PM #121:	pegusus123456 posted... Dash_Harber posted... - The show also was going to have Voyager actually create a frontier Federation to survive. They showed it a bit in the last season episode about The Void, which was great. The Agony Booth wrote an article mentioning the episode "Alliances" where Janeway decides to try and ally with some Delta Quadrant races. It ultimately doesn't work out (of course) and they maintain that this episode is essentially where Star Trek died. This episode had the potential to completely change the series. Instead of a constant barrage of pointless episodes where they find a way home, only to lose it in the last few minutes, the show could have been about Voyager making pacts and trying to form a new federation of sorts. This new federation wouldnt have been anything like the old one, of course. It would have been far rougher around the edges, and a lot less concerned with doing things by the book. So what happens at the end of Alliances? Voyagers potential allies end up backstabbing them. Janeway breaks off all negotiations, and makes a pointed speech to her crew about sticking to Starfleet principles, no matter what. And with that, the ship merrily cruised off into the status quo. In retrospect, that was probably the moment the Trek franchise died. Oh sure, it continued on for nearly ten years after that. Two more seasons of Deep Space Nine, five more seasons of Voyager, four of Enterprise, and even two feature films with the TNG crew. But it was over. Because that speech was the signal that from here on out, no chances would ever be taken with the franchise. It was now Star Trek, Incorporated, and when you tuned into Voyager every week, you knew you were getting the same product, just in slightly different packaging. And no matter what events transpired over the course of the episode, you could rest assured that the ol reset button would be pushed in the final five minutes, and everything would go back to the way it was. Interesting. It is fascinating that a series that literally had to downplay it's premise because of how experimental it was, became so mired in it's own mythos that it refused to step outside its genre's own conventions. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907656927] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>pegusus123456 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>- The show also was going to have Voyager actually create a frontier Federation to survive. They showed it a bit in the last season episode about The Void, which was great.</quote> The Agony Booth wrote an article mentioning the episode "Alliances" where Janeway decides to try and ally with some Delta Quadrant races. It ultimately doesn't work out (of course) and they maintain that this episode is essentially where Star Trek died. <quote>This episode had the potential to completely change the series. Instead of a constant barrage of pointless episodes where they find a way home, only to lose it in the last few minutes, the show could have been about Voyager making pacts and trying to form a new federation of sorts. This new federation wouldnt have been anything like the old one, of course. It would have been far rougher around the edges, and a lot less concerned with doing things by the book. So what happens at the end of Alliances? Voyagers potential allies end up backstabbing them. Janeway breaks off all negotiations, and makes a pointed speech to her crew about sticking to Starfleet principles, no matter what. And with that, the ship merrily cruised off into the status quo. In retrospect, that was probably the moment the Trek franchise died. Oh sure, it continued on for nearly ten years after that. Two more seasons of Deep Space Nine, five more seasons of Voyager, four of Enterprise, and even two feature films with the TNG crew. But it was over. Because that speech was the signal that from here on out, no chances would ever be taken with the franchise. It was now Star Trek, Incorporated, and when you tuned into Voyager every week, you knew you were getting the same product, just in slightly different packaging. And no matter what events transpired over the course of the episode, you could rest assured that the ol reset button would be pushed in the final five minutes, and everything would go back to the way it was.</quote></quote> Interesting. It is fascinating that a series that literally had to downplay it's premise because of how experimental it was, became so mired in it's own mythos that it refused to step outside its genre's own conventions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kafkaf 08/27/18 8:01:25 PM #122:	UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers --- https://imgur.com/Zy2iT20 <cite>Kafkaf posted [p:907657338] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/27/18 11:25:13 PM #123:	Better Call Saul spoilers: ~~Why is Neelix on this show?! D:~~ --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907667600] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>Better Call Saul spoilers: Why is Neelix on this show?! D:</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 08/28/18 1:30:39 AM #124:	Kafkaf posted... UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907669418] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kafkaf posted...</cite> <quote>UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers</quote> To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/28/18 9:04:36 AM #125:	Dash_Harber posted... Kafkaf posted... UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything. By the time Enterprise started to figure out what they were doing, too many people had already given up on it. And it's hard to blame them; the first two seasons were pretty bad. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907680221] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kafkaf posted...</cite> <quote>UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers</quote> To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything.</quote> By the time Enterprise started to figure out what they were doing, too many people had already given up on it. And it's hard to blame them; the first two seasons were pretty bad.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 08/28/18 8:48:01 PM #126:	jpenny2 posted... Dash_Harber posted... Kafkaf posted... UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything. By the time Enterprise started to figure out what they were doing, too many people had already given up on it. And it's hard to blame them; the first two seasons were pretty bad. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not like UPN killed a show that was super popular and well received from the beginning. It was literally treading water when people started to like it more, and that's not good enough to save even the best shows. I remember me and my family being so excited for a new Star Trek series, only to be infinitely disappointed with the pilot. We held out for the first season or so, but that was it because it just made so many catastrophically stupid decisions, and the prequel setting (that was all the rage at the time) was just garbage from the get-go. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907719053] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kafkaf posted...</cite> <quote>UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers</quote> To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything.</quote> By the time Enterprise started to figure out what they were doing, too many people had already given up on it. And it's hard to blame them; the first two seasons were pretty bad.</quote> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not like UPN killed a show that was super popular and well received from the beginning. It was literally treading water when people started to like it more, and that's not good enough to save even the best shows. I remember me and my family being so excited for a new Star Trek series, only to be infinitely disappointed with the pilot. We held out for the first season or so, but that was it because it just made so many catastrophically stupid decisions, and the prequel setting (that was all the rage at the time) was just garbage from the get-go.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Manocheese 08/28/18 8:50:03 PM #127:	16-BITTER posted... RIP Man Star boldly gone up to 97 frontiers ROLOFMOA --- ()_() Hardcore - We'll probably be modded for this... (o.o) http://manocheese.googlepages.com/manocheesery <cite>Manocheese posted [p:907719188] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>16-BITTER posted...</cite> <quote>RIP Man Star boldly gone up to 97 frontiers</quote> ROLOFMOA</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/28/18 9:12:54 PM #128:	Dash_Harber posted... jpenny2 posted... Dash_Harber posted... Kafkaf posted... UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything. By the time Enterprise started to figure out what they were doing, too many people had already given up on it. And it's hard to blame them; the first two seasons were pretty bad. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not like UPN killed a show that was super popular and well received from the beginning. It was literally treading water when people started to like it more, and that's not good enough to save even the best shows. I remember me and my family being so excited for a new Star Trek series, only to be infinitely disappointed with the pilot. We held out for the first season or so, but that was it because it just made so many catastrophically stupid decisions, and the prequel setting (that was all the rage at the time) was just garbage from the get-go. I can't remember why, but I never watched it when it originally was on TV, other than maybe a handful of episodes. It wasn't until the series was over that got the chance to see it from the beginning. And I gave up before the end of the first season. I found the show boring and didn't like any of the characters. A few years later I watched until partway through season 3 after someone uploaded the episodes to YouTube, and I do think it started to improve, but the episodes were taken down before I could finish. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907720538] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kafkaf posted...</cite> <quote>UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers</quote> To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything.</quote> By the time Enterprise started to figure out what they were doing, too many people had already given up on it. And it's hard to blame them; the first two seasons were pretty bad.</quote> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not like UPN killed a show that was super popular and well received from the beginning. It was literally treading water when people started to like it more, and that's not good enough to save even the best shows. I remember me and my family being so excited for a new Star Trek series, only to be infinitely disappointed with the pilot. We held out for the first season or so, but that was it because it just made so many catastrophically stupid decisions, and the prequel setting (that was all the rage at the time) was just garbage from the get-go.</quote> I can't remember why, but I never watched it when it originally was on TV, other than maybe a handful of episodes. It wasn't until the series was over that got the chance to see it from the beginning. And I gave up before the end of the first season. I found the show boring and didn't like any of the characters. A few years later I watched until partway through season 3 after someone uploaded the episodes to YouTube, and I do think it started to improve, but the episodes were taken down before I could finish.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 08/28/18 11:08:06 PM #129:	jpenny2 posted... Dash_Harber posted... jpenny2 posted... Dash_Harber posted... Kafkaf posted... UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything. By the time Enterprise started to figure out what they were doing, too many people had already given up on it. And it's hard to blame them; the first two seasons were pretty bad. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not like UPN killed a show that was super popular and well received from the beginning. It was literally treading water when people started to like it more, and that's not good enough to save even the best shows. I remember me and my family being so excited for a new Star Trek series, only to be infinitely disappointed with the pilot. We held out for the first season or so, but that was it because it just made so many catastrophically stupid decisions, and the prequel setting (that was all the rage at the time) was just garbage from the get-go. I can't remember why, but I never watched it when it originally was on TV, other than maybe a handful of episodes. It wasn't until the series was over that got the chance to see it from the beginning. And I gave up before the end of the first season. I found the show boring and didn't like any of the characters. A few years later I watched until partway through season 3 after someone uploaded the episodes to YouTube, and I do think it started to improve, but the episodes were taken down before I could finish. As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907727517] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kafkaf posted...</cite> <quote>UPN killed Star Trek, Enterprise S4 actually gained viewers</quote> To be fair, it had three seasons to do something, and it didn't. Enterprise killed Star Trek, if anything.</quote> By the time Enterprise started to figure out what they were doing, too many people had already given up on it. And it's hard to blame them; the first two seasons were pretty bad.</quote> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not like UPN killed a show that was super popular and well received from the beginning. It was literally treading water when people started to like it more, and that's not good enough to save even the best shows. I remember me and my family being so excited for a new Star Trek series, only to be infinitely disappointed with the pilot. We held out for the first season or so, but that was it because it just made so many catastrophically stupid decisions, and the prequel setting (that was all the rage at the time) was just garbage from the get-go.</quote> I can't remember why, but I never watched it when it originally was on TV, other than maybe a handful of episodes. It wasn't until the series was over that got the chance to see it from the beginning. And I gave up before the end of the first season. I found the show boring and didn't like any of the characters. A few years later I watched until partway through season 3 after someone uploaded the episodes to YouTube, and I do think it started to improve, but the episodes were taken down before I could finish.</quote> As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 08/28/18 11:28:23 PM #130:	Dash_Harber posted... As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix. I've got Canadian Netflix, so at some point I will get to it. I'll have to check the episode descriptions to see where I left off because I don't feel like watching the whole series again. But I have already seen the series finale. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907728791] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix.</quote> I've got Canadian Netflix, so at some point I will get to it. I'll have to check the episode descriptions to see where I left off because I don't feel like watching the whole series again. But I have already seen the series finale.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cjsdowg 08/31/18 12:29:19 AM #131:	Dash_Harber posted... As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix. There are different Netflix ? --- Bender: Well, everybody, I just saved a turtle. What have you done with your lives? <cite>cjsdowg posted [p:907851108] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote> As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix.</quote> There are different Netflix ?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 09/01/18 10:38:56 AM #132:	cjsdowg posted... Dash_Harber posted... As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix. There are different Netflix ? So far as I know, it's different in each country. I'm in Canada, and Netflix here doesn't have the same selection as in the US. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907920777] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>cjsdowg posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote> As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix.</quote> There are different Netflix ?</quote> So far as I know, it's different in each country. I'm in Canada, and Netflix here doesn't have the same selection as in the US.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TrevorBlack79 09/01/18 10:46:34 AM #133:	Honestly S3 of Enterprise is some top-shelf Trek on par with DS9's Dominion War. It's just too bed the rest of the show is hot garbage, and the contrast between S3 and the rest still blows my mind. I can't think of another show I've seen that is just overall terrible with a solitary season of pure excellence. --- "a minority is someone who you can tell off the bat they are black/hispanic/colored. LGBT isn't a minority" - Blakkheim1 <cite>TrevorBlack79 posted [p:907921091] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>Honestly S3 of Enterprise is some top-shelf Trek on par with DS9's Dominion War. It's just too bed the rest of the show is hot garbage, and the contrast between S3 and the rest still blows my mind. I can't think of another show I've seen that is just overall terrible with a solitary season of pure excellence.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 09/01/18 1:18:42 PM #134:	If they didn't waste S1 or S2 or had better quality writing in S1 / S2 --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:907927963] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>If they didn't waste S1 or S2 or had better quality writing in S1 / S2</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 09/01/18 7:53:12 PM #135:	jpenny2 posted... I agree with Chakotay being an offensive caricature. And this is made all the worse by the fact that his being Native American is his entire character. With the Maquis stuff being dropped so quickly, almost every episode that focuses on him--and mind you, that's not many episodes--is about some aspect of his made up culture. Other than that, he's a generic first officer with little in the way of personality and no outstanding traits or skills. This also got me thinking recently. He's also supposed to be a master archeologist/anthropologist, but they demonstrate this by him literally just apply human customs to every single alien species he encountered. There is the episode with the dream invading aliens and when they find the burial site everyone else is like, "It could be this or that" and he's like, "nope, this is how humans do it so that must be the facts!". I still like the theory that he was actually drunk the entire time. cjsdowg posted... Dash_Harber posted... As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix. There are different Netflix ? Yeah, each country has their own offerings due to things like language, regional shows, and licensing issues. Our Canadian catalog is basically hot garbage compared to the US one. KamenRiderBlade posted... If they didn't waste S1 or S2 or had better quality writing in S1 / S2 Out of context, I'm not sure what Star Trek you are talking about. TNG, VOY, ENT, and DS9 all had really bad first and second seasons. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907947119] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote> I agree with Chakotay being an offensive caricature. And this is made all the worse by the fact that his being Native American is his entire character. With the Maquis stuff being dropped so quickly, almost every episode that focuses on him--and mind you, that's not many episodes--is about some aspect of his made up culture. Other than that, he's a generic first officer with little in the way of personality and no outstanding traits or skills.</quote> This also got me thinking recently. He's also supposed to be a master archeologist/anthropologist, but they demonstrate this by him literally just apply human customs to every single alien species he encountered. There is the episode with the dream invading aliens and when they find the burial site everyone else is like, "It could be this or that" and he's like, "nope, this is how humans do it so that must be the facts!". I still like the theory that he was actually drunk the entire time. <cite>cjsdowg posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote> As far as I know, the entire thing is on Netflix nowadays, if you are interested. At least, it was on the US and it's still on Canadian Netflix.</quote> There are different Netflix ?</quote> Yeah, each country has their own offerings due to things like language, regional shows, and licensing issues. Our Canadian catalog is basically hot garbage compared to the US one. <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted...</cite> <quote>If they didn't waste S1 or S2 or had better quality writing in S1 / S2</quote> Out of context, I'm not sure what Star Trek you are talking about. TNG, VOY, ENT, and DS9 all had really bad first and second seasons.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 09/01/18 8:07:49 PM #136:	Dash_Harber posted... This also got me thinking recently. He's also supposed to be a master archeologist/anthropologist, but they demonstrate this by him literally just apply human customs to every single alien species he encountered. There is the episode with the dream invading aliens and when they find the burial site everyone else is like, "It could be this or that" and he's like, "nope, this is how humans do it so that must be the facts!". I still like the theory that he was actually drunk the entire time. They try to portray him as wise (because how else would they portray a supposed Native American character?), but he tends to say things that are probably meant to be wise but just come across as empty and stereotypical. I wish they had given him more of a story, maybe expanding on his relationship with Seska (who they shouldn't have killed off so early). --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907947817] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote>This also got me thinking recently. He's also supposed to be a master archeologist/anthropologist, but they demonstrate this by him literally just apply human customs to every single alien species he encountered. There is the episode with the dream invading aliens and when they find the burial site everyone else is like, "It could be this or that" and he's like, "nope, this is how humans do it so that must be the facts!". I still like the theory that he was actually drunk the entire time.</quote> They try to portray him as wise (because how else would they portray a supposed Native American character?), but he tends to say things that are probably meant to be wise but just come across as empty and stereotypical. I wish they had given him more of a story, maybe expanding on his relationship with Seska (who they shouldn't have killed off so early).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pegusus123456 09/01/18 8:11:54 PM #137:	I liked that they had Seska's baby suddenly be Kazon out of fucking nowhere just so they didn't have to deal with Chakotay having a kid --- https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT So? I deeded to some gay porn. It doesn't mean anything. - Patty_Fleur <cite>pegusus123456 posted [p:907948032] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>I liked that they had Seska's baby suddenly be Kazon out of fucking nowhere just so they didn't have to deal with Chakotay having a kid</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 09/01/18 8:25:31 PM #138:	pegusus123456 posted... I liked that they had Seska's baby suddenly be Kazon out of fucking nowhere just so they didn't have to deal with Chakotay having a kid That was such a cop out. We're presented with a somewhat interesting idea that could have huge ramifications going forward. But nope, it's not actually Chakotay's kid. Oh, and Seska's dead now anyway, so everything is neatly wrapped up. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907948659] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>pegusus123456 posted...</cite> <quote>I liked that they had Seska's baby suddenly be Kazon out of fucking nowhere just so they didn't have to deal with Chakotay having a kid</quote> That was such a cop out. We're presented with a somewhat interesting idea that could have huge ramifications going forward. But nope, it's not actually Chakotay's kid. Oh, and Seska's dead now anyway, so everything is neatly wrapped up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pegusus123456 09/01/18 8:29:55 PM #139:	I was just reading the Memory Alpha for that episode. Michael Piller wanted the kid to die. "Rick and Jeri felt that it was in extremely bad taste and too violent," Piller remembered. "Although the studio liked the ending that I wrote, Rick and Jeri felt that they could not live with it, so we started exploring other endings. Those included having Seska grab the baby and having Culluh die, which was certainly doable if you believed that Seska really loved Culluh and moaned about losing him, but I don't think anybody would buy that. I didn't think that was satisfying enough, that she didn't get her just reward. The next alternative was to kill Seska, which certainly would be a dramatic reward, but that left us with Chakotay's baby on the ship. Chakotay would not just let anybody take that baby off the ship. Jeri wanted no part of a baby being left on board, so she vetoed that one. Well, the only other solution I could think of, somewhat contrived, I will admit, is that it turns out it's not Chakotay's baby after all. She thinks it is, but it's not." (Captains' Logs Supplemental - The Unauthorized Guide to the New Trek Voyages) Piller later remarked, "[The original idea] was deemed to be thematically too violent and so the baby lived but turned out to be not Chakotay's after all, which undermined the effectiveness of the story I was trying to tell. I was a lame duck and leaving, so I couldn't fight very hard. That's the only thing I ever remember not getting that I wanted in my entire Star Trek career." --- https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT So? I deeded to some gay porn. It doesn't mean anything. - Patty_Fleur <cite>pegusus123456 posted [p:907948853] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>I was just reading the Memory Alpha for that episode. Michael Piller wanted the kid to die. <quote>"Rick and Jeri felt that it was in extremely bad taste and too violent," Piller remembered. "Although the studio liked the ending that I wrote, Rick and Jeri felt that they could not live with it, so we started exploring other endings. Those included having Seska grab the baby and having Culluh die, which was certainly doable if you believed that Seska really loved Culluh and moaned about losing him, but I don't think anybody would buy that. I didn't think that was satisfying enough, that she didn't get her just reward. The next alternative was to kill Seska, which certainly would be a dramatic reward, but that left us with Chakotay's baby on the ship. Chakotay would not just let anybody take that baby off the ship. Jeri wanted no part of a baby being left on board, so she vetoed that one. Well, the only other solution I could think of, somewhat contrived, I will admit, is that it turns out it's not Chakotay's baby after all. She thinks it is, but it's not." (Captains' Logs Supplemental - The Unauthorized Guide to the New Trek Voyages) Piller later remarked, "[The original idea] was deemed to be thematically too violent and so the baby lived but turned out to be not Chakotay's after all, which undermined the effectiveness of the story I was trying to tell. I was a lame duck and leaving, so I couldn't fight very hard. That's the only thing I ever remember not getting that I wanted in my entire Star Trek career." </quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CharlesBronson 09/01/18 8:33:48 PM #140:	I like the scene where Worf forgets how to raise the shields. <cite>CharlesBronson posted [p:907949036] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote>I like the scene where Worf forgets how to raise the shields.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 09/01/18 8:41:42 PM #141:	pegusus123456 posted... I was just reading the Memory Alpha for that episode. Michael Piller wanted the kid to die. "Rick and Jeri felt that it was in extremely bad taste and too violent," Piller remembered. "Although the studio liked the ending that I wrote, Rick and Jeri felt that they could not live with it, so we started exploring other endings. Those included having Seska grab the baby and having Culluh die, which was certainly doable if you believed that Seska really loved Culluh and moaned about losing him, but I don't think anybody would buy that. I didn't think that was satisfying enough, that she didn't get her just reward. The next alternative was to kill Seska, which certainly would be a dramatic reward, but that left us with Chakotay's baby on the ship. Chakotay would not just let anybody take that baby off the ship. Jeri wanted no part of a baby being left on board, so she vetoed that one. Well, the only other solution I could think of, somewhat contrived, I will admit, is that it turns out it's not Chakotay's baby after all. She thinks it is, but it's not." (Captains' Logs Supplemental - The Unauthorized Guide to the New Trek Voyages) Piller later remarked, "[The original idea] was deemed to be thematically too violent and so the baby lived but turned out to be not Chakotay's after all, which undermined the effectiveness of the story I was trying to tell. I was a lame duck and leaving, so I couldn't fight very hard. That's the only thing I ever remember not getting that I wanted in my entire Star Trek career." Having the baby be Chakotay's and then die would've been far better than what we got, and it would've been a chance to develop Chakotay's character. But it's risky, so they went with the safer option. At least that episode finally ended all the Kazon stuff; it doesn't make much sense to keep fighting the same enemy for two full seasons when you're supposed to be heading away from them at high warp the entire time. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907949423] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>pegusus123456 posted...</cite> <quote>I was just reading the Memory Alpha for that episode. Michael Piller wanted the kid to die. <quote>"Rick and Jeri felt that it was in extremely bad taste and too violent," Piller remembered. "Although the studio liked the ending that I wrote, Rick and Jeri felt that they could not live with it, so we started exploring other endings. Those included having Seska grab the baby and having Culluh die, which was certainly doable if you believed that Seska really loved Culluh and moaned about losing him, but I don't think anybody would buy that. I didn't think that was satisfying enough, that she didn't get her just reward. The next alternative was to kill Seska, which certainly would be a dramatic reward, but that left us with Chakotay's baby on the ship. Chakotay would not just let anybody take that baby off the ship. Jeri wanted no part of a baby being left on board, so she vetoed that one. Well, the only other solution I could think of, somewhat contrived, I will admit, is that it turns out it's not Chakotay's baby after all. She thinks it is, but it's not." (Captains' Logs Supplemental - The Unauthorized Guide to the New Trek Voyages) Piller later remarked, "[The original idea] was deemed to be thematically too violent and so the baby lived but turned out to be not Chakotay's after all, which undermined the effectiveness of the story I was trying to tell. I was a lame duck and leaving, so I couldn't fight very hard. That's the only thing I ever remember not getting that I wanted in my entire Star Trek career." </quote></quote> Having the baby be Chakotay's and then die would've been far better than what we got, and it would've been a chance to develop Chakotay's character. But it's risky, so they went with the safer option. At least that episode finally ended all the Kazon stuff; it doesn't make much sense to keep fighting the same enemy for two full seasons when you're supposed to be heading away from them at high warp the entire time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Medussa 09/01/18 8:44:44 PM #142:	jpenny2 posted... so they went with the safer option that so perfectly sums up Voyager it's painful. --- Boom! That's right, this is all happening! You cannot change the channel now! Act now! Venchmen are standing by for your orders! <cite>Medussa posted [p:907949568] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>so they went with the safer option</quote> that so perfectly sums up Voyager it's painful.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 09/01/18 9:32:12 PM #143:	Medussa posted... jpenny2 posted... so they went with the safer option that so perfectly sums up Voyager it's painful. It seems like all they wanted was a nice, inoffensive series that could be easily syndicated. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907951683] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Medussa posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>so they went with the safer option</quote> that so perfectly sums up Voyager it's painful.</quote> It seems like all they wanted was a nice, inoffensive series that could be easily syndicated.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 09/01/18 10:12:27 PM #144:	jpenny2 posted... pegusus123456 posted... I liked that they had Seska's baby suddenly be Kazon out of fucking nowhere just so they didn't have to deal with Chakotay having a kid That was such a cop out. We're presented with a somewhat interesting idea that could have huge ramifications going forward. But nope, it's not actually Chakotay's kid. Oh, and Seska's dead now anyway, so everything is neatly wrapped up. I remember the episode going something like this; Chakotay - "My son is on that ship! We can't destroy it" Ensign Maury - "Chakotay, you are not the father" Chakotay - "Oh, okay then, go ahead and blow the ship up" <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907953483] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>pegusus123456 posted...</cite> <quote>I liked that they had Seska's baby suddenly be Kazon out of fucking nowhere just so they didn't have to deal with Chakotay having a kid</quote> That was such a cop out. We're presented with a somewhat interesting idea that could have huge ramifications going forward. But nope, it's not actually Chakotay's kid. Oh, and Seska's dead now anyway, so everything is neatly wrapped up.</quote> I remember the episode going something like this; Chakotay - "My son is on that ship! We can't destroy it" Ensign Maury - "Chakotay, you are not the father" Chakotay - "Oh, okay then, go ahead and blow the ship up"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 09/01/18 10:34:51 PM #145:	Dash_Harber posted... jpenny2 posted... pegusus123456 posted... I liked that they had Seska's baby suddenly be Kazon out of fucking nowhere just so they didn't have to deal with Chakotay having a kid That was such a cop out. We're presented with a somewhat interesting idea that could have huge ramifications going forward. But nope, it's not actually Chakotay's kid. Oh, and Seska's dead now anyway, so everything is neatly wrapped up. I remember the episode going something like this; Chakotay - "My son is on that ship! We can't destroy it" Ensign Maury - "Chakotay, you are not the father" Chakotay - "Oh, okay then, go ahead and blow the ship up" Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. So, we've got a murderer on the ship, which presents an ethical dilemma since they don't want to execute him and yet he can't fully contribute to the effort to get home. And we've got Seska, who could have lived and been in a similar situation, plus she has a baby with Chakotay, which further complicates things. Maybe one of them could have had a redemption arc somewhere down the line and eventually rejoined the crew. Voyager's solution: The baby is not Chakotay's, kill off the other two, and hit the reset button. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907954477] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>pegusus123456 posted...</cite> <quote>I liked that they had Seska's baby suddenly be Kazon out of fucking nowhere just so they didn't have to deal with Chakotay having a kid</quote> That was such a cop out. We're presented with a somewhat interesting idea that could have huge ramifications going forward. But nope, it's not actually Chakotay's kid. Oh, and Seska's dead now anyway, so everything is neatly wrapped up.</quote> I remember the episode going something like this; Chakotay - "My son is on that ship! We can't destroy it" Ensign Maury - "Chakotay, you are not the father" Chakotay - "Oh, okay then, go ahead and blow the ship up"</quote> Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. So, we've got a murderer on the ship, which presents an ethical dilemma since they don't want to execute him and yet he can't fully contribute to the effort to get home. And we've got Seska, who could have lived and been in a similar situation, plus she has a baby with Chakotay, which further complicates things. Maybe one of them could have had a redemption arc somewhere down the line and eventually rejoined the crew. Voyager's solution: The baby is not Chakotay's, kill off the other two, and hit the reset button.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 09/01/18 10:39:40 PM #146:	jpenny2 posted... Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. So, we've got a murderer on the ship, which presents an ethical dilemma since they don't want to execute him and yet he can't fully contribute to the effort to get home. And we've got Seska, who could have lived and been in a similar situation, plus she has a baby with Chakotay, which further complicates things. Maybe one of them could have had a redemption arc somewhere down the line and eventually rejoined the crew. Sudor is a brilliant character that was completely wasted. Not only for the reasons you said, which are incredibly true, but also because it's implied that he is not mentally stable and therefore not entirely responsible for his actions. It raises a huge (and very interesting) problem; when you are 100 years from the nearest mental health facility, how do you deal with criminals who are mentally ill? <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907954697] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote> Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. So, we've got a murderer on the ship, which presents an ethical dilemma since they don't want to execute him and yet he can't fully contribute to the effort to get home. And we've got Seska, who could have lived and been in a similar situation, plus she has a baby with Chakotay, which further complicates things. Maybe one of them could have had a redemption arc somewhere down the line and eventually rejoined the crew.</quote> Sudor is a brilliant character that was completely wasted. Not only for the reasons you said, which are incredibly true, but also because it's implied that he is not mentally stable and therefore not entirely responsible for his actions. It raises a huge (and very interesting) problem; when you are 100 years from the nearest mental health facility, how do you deal with criminals who are mentally ill?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pegusus123456 09/01/18 10:40:50 PM #147:	jpenny2 posted... Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. Also Jeri Taylor Michael Piller wanted the character of Lon Suder whom Piller had created, earlier in the second season to survive the events of this episode, but Jeri Taylor was uninterested in further developing the character, who is consequently one of many who die in the episode's final moments. Piller commented, "It's a real wipeout. Jeri never cared for Suder and had no interest in developing him any further, so there was no point in keeping him alive. And a dramatic arc is fully realized by having his death occur at the end of part two. He heroically sacrifices himself for the ship." (Captains' Logs Supplemental - The Unauthorized Guide to the New Trek Voyages) According to Jeri Taylor herself, the decision to have Suder killed was made because the writers couldn't see how he could really be redeemed and he was simply too difficult to integrate with the other characters believably and well. (Delta Quadrant, p. 129) --- https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT https://imgur.com/Er6TT So? I deeded to some gay porn. It doesn't mean anything. - Patty_Fleur <cite>pegusus123456 posted [p:907954741] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote>Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. </quote> Also Jeri Taylor <quote>Michael Piller wanted the character of Lon Suder whom Piller had created, earlier in the second season to survive the events of this episode, but Jeri Taylor was uninterested in further developing the character, who is consequently one of many who die in the episode's final moments. Piller commented, "It's a real wipeout. Jeri never cared for Suder and had no interest in developing him any further, so there was no point in keeping him alive. And a dramatic arc is fully realized by having his death occur at the end of part two. He heroically sacrifices himself for the ship." (Captains' Logs Supplemental - The Unauthorized Guide to the New Trek Voyages) According to Jeri Taylor herself, the decision to have Suder killed was made because the writers couldn't see how he could really be redeemed and he was simply too difficult to integrate with the other characters believably and well. (Delta Quadrant, p. 129) </quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 09/01/18 10:49:57 PM #148:	Dash_Harber posted... jpenny2 posted... Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. So, we've got a murderer on the ship, which presents an ethical dilemma since they don't want to execute him and yet he can't fully contribute to the effort to get home. And we've got Seska, who could have lived and been in a similar situation, plus she has a baby with Chakotay, which further complicates things. Maybe one of them could have had a redemption arc somewhere down the line and eventually rejoined the crew. Sudor is a brilliant character that was completely wasted. Not only for the reasons you said, which are incredibly true, but also because it's implied that he is not mentally stable and therefore not entirely responsible for his actions. It raises a huge (and very interesting) problem; when you are 100 years from the nearest mental health facility, how do you deal with criminals who are mentally ill? There was so much potential to do something with him. We even get a hint of it when we see that he has sort of improved (I think he was breeding flowers or something) and wants to do more to contribute, but he's still clearly too unstable to be given his freedom. But it comes back to the same thing: it was just easier to have him die. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907955150] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote> Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. So, we've got a murderer on the ship, which presents an ethical dilemma since they don't want to execute him and yet he can't fully contribute to the effort to get home. And we've got Seska, who could have lived and been in a similar situation, plus she has a baby with Chakotay, which further complicates things. Maybe one of them could have had a redemption arc somewhere down the line and eventually rejoined the crew.</quote> Sudor is a brilliant character that was completely wasted. Not only for the reasons you said, which are incredibly true, but also because it's implied that he is not mentally stable and therefore not entirely responsible for his actions. It raises a huge (and very interesting) problem; when you are 100 years from the nearest mental health facility, how do you deal with criminals who are mentally ill?</quote> There was so much potential to do something with him. We even get a hint of it when we see that he has sort of improved (I think he was breeding flowers or something) and wants to do more to contribute, but he's still clearly too unstable to be given his freedom. But it comes back to the same thing: it was just easier to have him die.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jpenny2 09/01/18 10:53:53 PM #149:	pegusus123456 posted... Also Jeri Taylor She made a lot of bad decisions. --- Fren Code: 2767-3374-3343 \|\| IGN: Penny \|\| TSV: 3067 \|\| Sig NFT I hate sarcasm. I'm also not too fond of irony. \| Permanently banned <cite>jpenny2 posted [p:907955318] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>pegusus123456 posted...</cite> <quote>Also Jeri Taylor</quote> She made a lot of bad decisions.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 09/01/18 10:58:58 PM #150:	jpenny2 posted... Dash_Harber posted... jpenny2 posted... Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. So, we've got a murderer on the ship, which presents an ethical dilemma since they don't want to execute him and yet he can't fully contribute to the effort to get home. And we've got Seska, who could have lived and been in a similar situation, plus she has a baby with Chakotay, which further complicates things. Maybe one of them could have had a redemption arc somewhere down the line and eventually rejoined the crew. Sudor is a brilliant character that was completely wasted. Not only for the reasons you said, which are incredibly true, but also because it's implied that he is not mentally stable and therefore not entirely responsible for his actions. It raises a huge (and very interesting) problem; when you are 100 years from the nearest mental health facility, how do you deal with criminals who are mentally ill? There was so much potential to do something with him. We even get a hint of it when we see that he has sort of improved (I think he was breeding flowers or something) and wants to do more to contribute, but he's still clearly too unstable to be given his freedom. But it comes back to the same thing: it was just easier to have him die. Yeah, IIRC, Tuvok was counseling him and mind melding with him to help him control his mental instability. He also was technically disabled, since IIRC, he was a Betazoid that had gimped psychic abilities. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:907955528] in Man Star T... [t:76934398]...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jpenny2 posted...</cite> <quote> Now that I think about it, that episode also killed off Sudor, who had potential to be an interesting recurring character. So, we've got a murderer on the ship, which presents an ethical dilemma since they don't want to execute him and yet he can't fully contribute to the effort to get home. And we've got Seska, who could have lived and been in a similar situation, plus she has a baby with Chakotay, which further complicates things. Maybe one of them could have had a redemption arc somewhere down the line and eventually rejoined the crew.</quote> Sudor is a brilliant character that was completely wasted. Not only for the reasons you said, which are incredibly true, but also because it's implied that he is not mentally stable and therefore not entirely responsible for his actions. It raises a huge (and very interesting) problem; when you are 100 years from the nearest mental health facility, how do you deal with criminals who are mentally ill?</quote> There was so much potential to do something with him. We even get a hint of it when we see that he has sort of improved (I think he was breeding flowers or something) and wants to do more to contribute, but he's still clearly too unstable to be given his freedom. But it comes back to the same thing: it was just easier to have him die.</quote> Yeah, IIRC, Tuvok was counseling him and mind melding with him to help him control his mental instability. He also was technically disabled, since IIRC, he was a Betazoid that had gimped psychic abilities.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Man Star Trek the next generation drops so many profound statements (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Man Star Trek the next generation drops so many profound statements