Current Events > Why do some gay people really dislike Trans people in LGBT?

(+) Yeah! (+)

To the point of not wanting to be affiliated with them

Its not really a fair question to ask here. The answers would be moderated.
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Because gay people arent infallible and can be as dismissive and nonempathetic as anyone else.
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User Since: Jan 2011
Karma: 895
Active Posts: 1

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Why are some gay people Republicans? It's a mystery.
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if we evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys
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Almost like sexual preference and gender identity aren't the same thing.
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I don't dislike them, I just don't like when they do crazy things and the entire gay community has to answer for it. :v We've just barely got acceptance from the general public and now trans people are making it harder for everyone by being extra. Like messing up competitive balance in women's sports and doxxing people who disagree with them on the internet.

And I'm still not over them turning on Rupaul and forcing her to censor her own damn show. Apparently gay people aren't allowed to say the T or S words anymore despite the fact we all belong to the same community allegedly. How petty.
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Same reason they dislike us bi people.

They can be disgusting bigots as well.
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LinksLiege posted...

Almost like sexual preference and gender identity aren't the same thing.

That boils it down. For instance, while drag is prevalent in the gay community, some Trans people find it offensive.

Also when you have so many different communities (let's just keep it at the 4), you're going to have scuffles/disagreements over representation.

Anecdote: I've seen transactivist shut down an LGBT meeting at my college years ago and curse out the president for pushing back Trans-awareness week to a later date. The President had had also disagreed on supporting a move making a trans-only space available.

This then made the bisexual people flip out at the trans people because they felt they get even less representation than they do (tbh I feel they get a bad rep).

So ultimately it boils down to different communities trying to be allies but also trying to get equal representation, which is ultimately difficult when different communities are advancing separately, and gender identity & sexuality are different issues.

Funkydog posted...

Same reason they dislike us bi people.

They can be disgusting bigots as well.

I've heard bi people on this site and elsewhere talk about how they present themselves as swinging only one way at first just so they have a chance at getting with someone because of the demented prejudice we receive.

Pretty sad state of affairs when a subsection of the community starts replicating the kind of behavior the community is supposed to be a goddamn refuge from.
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BigSLM1993 posted...

LinksLiege posted...

Almost like sexual preference and gender identity aren't the same thing.

That boils it down. For instance, while drag is prevalent in the gay community, some Trans people find it offensive.

Also when you have so many different communities (let's just keep it at the 4), you're going to have scuffles/disagreements over representation.

Anecdote: I've seen transactivist shut down an LGBT meeting at my college years ago and curse out the president for pushing back Trans-awareness week to a later date. The President had had also disagreed on supporting a move making a trans-only space available.

This then made the bisexual people flip out at the trans people because they felt they get even less representation than they do (tbh I feel they get a bad rep).

So ultimately it boils down to different communities trying to be allies but also trying to get equal representation, which is ultimately difficult when different communities are advancing separately, and gender identity & sexuality are different issues.

the day they try to take drag from us is the day the bridge is officially burnt imo. it is shaky enough as it is.
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I think this ramped up recently after the trans issues became a political frenzy.

Some gay people are scared that trans people will cost them their rights.
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LinksLiege posted...

Funkydog posted...

Same reason they dislike us bi people.

They can be disgusting bigots as well.

I've heard bi people on this site and elsewhere talk about how they present themselves as swinging only one way at first just so they have a chance at getting with someone because of the demented prejudice we receive.

Pretty sad state of affairs when a subsection of the community starts replicating the kind of behavior the community is supposed to be a goddamn refuge from.

I'm bisexual in terms of having an attraction to both sexes, but I'd only date a man. But I only say I'm gay for the same reason. I don't want to deal with that stigma

TBH I feel that when same sex marriage got legalized was when things got worse.

Back when we had landmark advancements in 2013, I remember trans members of the LGBT club saying "Yay yay. We're celebrating with you guys but don't forget about us alright?" And it put a weird energy in the room.

I saw their point that trans rights are further behind but it stood out to me just how different the communities were. And how if one community feels they're winning the fight and the other is behind, that can cause tension.

I think even internally, there's been an increase in hostility towards white gay men. Like it wasn't until after same sex marriage get ratified that I noticed more rhetoric being directed towards them, or open conversations in the Pride center about "disliking white people" or how "we cant be racist to them" (im not exaggerating). Im black btw

It felt like one of those moments when an army wins a war and then you get that "now what?" moment. And then it collapses to infighting.

Not saying that gay issues are non existent but it feels like the infighting has increased.

BigSLM1993 posted...

I'm bisexual in terms of having an attraction to both sexes, but I'd only date a man. But I only say I'm gay for the same reason. I don't want to deal with that stigma

Differences in physical and romantic are one thing.
"I won't consider dating you because you find the other sex appealing" is a mindset that is only founded on terrible ideas. Part of me is glad I'm not romantically inclined at all - too much bullshit.
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Roshon posted...

I think this ramped up recently after the trans issues became a political frenzy.

Some gay people are scared that trans people will cost them their rights.

except in practice it's been the other way around. Trans rights have been a bargaining chip for decades.
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Medussa posted...

Roshon posted...

I think this ramped up recently after the trans issues became a political frenzy.

Some gay people are scared that trans people will cost them their rights.

except in practice it's been the other way around. Trans rights have been a bargaining chip for decades.

slander.
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LinksLiege posted...

BigSLM1993 posted...

I'm bisexual in terms of having an attraction to both sexes, but I'd only date a man. But I only say I'm gay for the same reason. I don't want to deal with that stigma

Differences in physical and romantic are one thing.
"I won't consider dating you because you find the other sex appealing" is a mindset that is only founded on terrible ideas. Part of me is glad I'm not romantically inclined at all - too much bullshit.

Sadly it goes both ways. I had a gay friend tell me that he wouldnt date a bisexual person because they can't pick a side, and is paranoid they'd leave him for a girl since it's the "easy" option

And I have heterosexual female family members that would never date bisexual men, since they feel they're secretly gay. My sister said "If I have to worry about him around women, I'll go crazy having to worry about both men & women around him"

But admittedly bisexuality in the Black community is incredibly divisive. Due to the "down low" stigma.

BigSLM1993 posted...

Sadly it goes both ways. I had a gay friend tell me that he wouldnt date a bisexual person because they can't pick a side, and is paranoid they'd leave him for a girl since it's the "easy" option

well, I do think that is kind of an understandable concern. >_>
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Funkydog posted...

Same reason they dislike us bi people.

They can be disgusting bigots as well.

No, come on. Don't compare.
Real reason is that 1. Sexual orientation and gender issues trans people having is not the same thing. So i personally don't see why trans people have to be part of LGBT at all. If all that most of them want is to transition and become what straight people are.
2. Trans people OR rather allies that support trans people are too aggressively political and raise more hate towards all LGBT

BigSLM1993 posted...

TBH I feel that when same sex marriage got legalized was when things got worse.

Back when we had landmark advancements in 2013, I remember trans members of the LGBT club saying "Yay yay. We're celebrating with you guys but don't forget about us alright?" And it put a weird energy in the room.

I saw their point that trans rights are further behind but it stood out to me just how different the communities were. And how if one community feels they're winning the fight and the other is behind, that can cause tension.

I think even internally, there's been an increase in hostility towards white gay men. Like it wasn't until after same sex marriage get ratified that I noticed more rhetoric being directed towards them, or open conversations in the Pride center about "disliking white people" or how "we cant be racist to them" (im not exaggerating). Im black btw

It felt like one of those moments when an army wins a war and then you get that "now what?" moment. And then it collapses to infighting.

Not saying that gay issues are non existent but it feels like the infighting has increased.

To follow up on this, people started to make the case that gay couples weren't fighting "hard enough" having "won their equality" and internal pressure seemed to be focused on shaming the community into collectively putting the same energy that they did into gay marriage into every subgroup's causes, and when it didn't happen it caused strife. Which resulted in articles like these:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/an-open-letter-to-gay-white-men-no-youre-not-allowed_us_5947f0ffe4b0f7875b83e459
https://www.advocate.com/film/2018/7/23/outfest-slams-gay-white-men-who-co-opted-trans-history

In turn, gay couples have felt like their acceptance has actually regressed under the heavy emphasis for trans rights, as people become more willing to turn against the LGB because of the T.
http://www.glaad.org/files/aa/Accelerating%20Acceptance%202018.pdf
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/sullivan-the-gay-rights-movement-is-undoing-its-best-work.html

EDIT: There's also the issue of second wave feminist TERFS like Camille Paglia who are pretty outspoken about the integration of intersectionality into their movement and see it as self-destructive.
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BigSLM1993 posted...

TBH I feel that when same sex marriage got legalized was when things got worse.

Back when we had landmark advancements in 2013, I remember trans members of the LGBT club saying "Yay yay. We're celebrating with you guys but don't forget about us alright?" And it put a weird energy in the room.

I saw their point that trans rights are further behind but it stood out to me just how different the communities were. And how if one community feels they're winning the fight and the other is behind, that can cause tension.

I think even internally, there's been an increase in hostility towards white gay men. Like it wasn't until after same sex marriage get ratified that I noticed more rhetoric being directed towards them, or open conversations in the Pride center about "disliking white people" or how "we cant be racist to them" (im not exaggerating). Im black btw

It felt like one of those moments when an army wins a war and then you get that "now what?" moment. And then it collapses to infighting.

Not saying that gay issues are non existent but it feels like the infighting has increased.

no one kicks down harder than the people on the first rung of the ladder
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halomonkey1_3_5 posted...

User Since: Jan 2011
Karma: 895
Active Posts: 1

Should have built up a haystack of posts to avoid the alt accusations. An easy and permanent way would to post in stickies since they don't typically purge.
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never thought I'd agree with sonic on anything >_> but he's got the right of it.
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BigSLM1993 posted...

Sadly it goes both ways. I had a gay friend tell me that he wouldnt date a bisexual person because they can't pick a side, and is paranoid they'd leave him for a girl since it's the "easy" option

Oh yeah, I'm definitely aware. It's partly the reason it pisses me off so much, the fact that it comes from both the straight side and the gay side.

At least the hetero side has a bit more of an excuse with the fact that that's the side with all the homophobes to begin with. I mean, it isn't an excuse but - you know what I'm getting at. The gay side is hypocritical here.
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Abyssea posted...

never thought I'd agree with sonic on anything >_> but he's got the right of it.

You'll find me reasonable more often than not if you're willing to focus on what I'm saying over what's being said about what I'm saying... if you get what I'm saying.
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Abyssea posted...

BigSLM1993 posted...

Sadly it goes both ways. I had a gay friend tell me that he wouldnt date a bisexual person because they can't pick a side, and is paranoid they'd leave him for a girl since it's the "easy" option

well, I do think that is kind of an understandable concern. >_>

Well ultimately I think it's a matter of insecurity and lack of trust.

Like, if someone commits to you then you have to believe they'll remain faithful.

Like what's stopping a man from leaving his wife for a younger woman? What's stopping a man from cheating in the first place? Nothing is besides the fact they made a commitment to you. Like I get the insecurity but the quality of the person you're dating ultimately will have to come into play. That and if your needs align.

ive never fit into the gay culture at all. tbh i just dont really get it... i dont have anything against it tho.

also im bi or pan or whatever ya wanna call me i dont really care i just like people.
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SSJCAT posted...

ive never fit into the gay culture at all. tbh i just dont really get it... i dont have anything against it tho.

also im bi or pan or whatever ya wanna call me i dont really care i just like people.

Gay culture is overrated. I also don't really associate with LGBT, not for political reasons thats for sure

VerisimiIitude posted...

Because gay people arent infallible and can be as dismissive and nonempathetic as anyone else.

Yeah. And respectability politics married to internalized homophobia and self-loathing.

In the 80's some gay (mostly men) people saw transpeople as pushing things too far to the point that they were making it difficult for straight people to take them seriously. Nevermind that straight people never took them seriously and this was the height of the AIDS epidemic in a America. Basically these men internalized the homophobia they had experienced their whole life, wrongfully projected it on to transwomen, and then excluded them from what could be considered mainstream queer spaces like clubs and bars.

These ideas are still present among the older generations of gay men, and you could hear echoes of that idea in the responses to the protests that took place during 2017 Capital Pride and in LA. Older established middle class gay men who feel like there's nothing really left to advocate for and that the 2015 marriage equality ruling solved homophobia, so what's wrong with treating pride like a party. If it's not clear, I think these attitudes are a reeking shitstain of privilege, but I'll defer to cooler minds for that hot take.

There's also the cult of masculinity among gay men. A lot of us kind of idolize traditional representations of masculinity, and the knowledge that a man they might otherwise be attracted to is trans is a turn off for some dudes. I'm not going to say it's super common, but I'm surprised at how often I see it. I have a hard time understanding how growing up aware of other people's prejudices towards you wouldn't help you to empathize with other people dealing with similar negative attitudes, but gay people can be just as myopic, petty, and flawed as everyone else. Also, we have a tendency to hate ourselves and project that self-loathing on to other people, unless we make a concerted effort to stop modeling our self worth off the criticisms of the people who caused us pain in our youth.

So, I've been looking at this specifically from the perspectives of gay men, because those are the ones I've experienced and read about. I know very little of origins of transphobia among lesbians outside of the obvious Trans-exclusionary Radical Feminist sympathizers. Someone else or other research will need to fill in the gaps there.

But really that's a lot of context for understanding a very simple message. Fuck respectability politics with something hard and sandpapery. You're not going to win mainstream approval by assimilation. I didn't work in the 70's during police raids, 80's during the AIDS crisis, and it's not going to work now. Never forget that they only played at giving us respect because we gave them bricks.
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@Abyssea posted...

the day they try to take drag from us is the day the bridge is officially burnt imo. it is shaky enough as it is.

Wasn't censoring RuPaul's show that day?
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

@Abyssea posted...

the day they try to take drag from us is the day the bridge is officially burnt imo. it is shaky enough as it is.

Wasn't censoring RuPaul's show that day?

Wasn't actually banning drag from the pride parade that day?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/07/21/drag-queens-banned-from-f_n_7839270.html
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

@Abyssea posted...

the day they try to take drag from us is the day the bridge is officially burnt imo. it is shaky enough as it is.

Wasn't censoring RuPaul's show that day?

Almost. :v They're on thin ice. It was an outrage. I can't even share my favorite rupaul song anymore because it has the T word in it.
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Abyssea posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

@Abyssea posted...

the day they try to take drag from us is the day the bridge is officially burnt imo. it is shaky enough as it is.

Wasn't censoring RuPaul's show that day?

Almost. :v They're on thin ice. It was an outrage. I can't even share my favorite rupaul song anymore because it has the T word in it.

If that word is a slur for transpeople, I think that's fair. We know enough of the cruelty we've endured to make an effort not to inflict that on our allies. And trans people are our allies. The average young adult gay man has no idea who Marsha P. Johnston, or Sylvia Riviera is and only watched enough of Paris is Burning to steal the queer slang. Transpeople have been bleeding in the name of gay rights from jump, and some of us have the goddamn nerve to erase them or disrespect them. That deeply offends my sense of justice. It should offend all of us.
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BigSLM1993 posted...

LinksLiege posted...

BigSLM1993 posted...

I'm bisexual in terms of having an attraction to both sexes, but I'd only date a man. But I only say I'm gay for the same reason. I don't want to deal with that stigma

Differences in physical and romantic are one thing.
"I won't consider dating you because you find the other sex appealing" is a mindset that is only founded on terrible ideas. Part of me is glad I'm not romantically inclined at all - too much bullshit.

Sadly it goes both ways. I had a gay friend tell me that he wouldnt date a bisexual person because they can't pick a side, and is paranoid they'd leave him for a girl since it's the "easy" option

And I have heterosexual female family members that would never date bisexual men, since they feel they're secretly gay. My sister said "If I have to worry about him around women, I'll go crazy having to worry about both men & women around him"

But admittedly bisexuality in the Black community is incredibly divisive. Due to the "down low" stigma.

Not just bisexuality; homosexuality is frowned upon in the Black community.
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hollow_shrine posted...

Abyssea posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

@Abyssea posted...

the day they try to take drag from us is the day the bridge is officially burnt imo. it is shaky enough as it is.

Wasn't censoring RuPaul's show that day?

Almost. :v They're on thin ice. It was an outrage. I can't even share my favorite rupaul song anymore because it has the T word in it.

If that word is a slur for transpeople, I think that's fair. We know enough of the cruelty we've endured to make an effort not to inflict that on our allies. And trans people are our allies. The average young adult gay man has no idea who Marsha P. Johnston, or Sylvia Riviera is and only watched enough of Paris is Burning to steal the queer slang. Transpeople have been bleeding in the name of gay rights from jump, and some of us have the goddamn nerve to erase them or disrespect them. That deeply offends my sense of justice. It should offend all of us.

Rupaul has been performing in drag since the 80s. >_> She should be able to say the T word.
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Solar_Crimson posted...

BigSLM1993 posted...

LinksLiege posted...

BigSLM1993 posted...

I'm bisexual in terms of having an attraction to both sexes, but I'd only date a man. But I only say I'm gay for the same reason. I don't want to deal with that stigma

Differences in physical and romantic are one thing.
"I won't consider dating you because you find the other sex appealing" is a mindset that is only founded on terrible ideas. Part of me is glad I'm not romantically inclined at all - too much bullshit.

Sadly it goes both ways. I had a gay friend tell me that he wouldnt date a bisexual person because they can't pick a side, and is paranoid they'd leave him for a girl since it's the "easy" option

And I have heterosexual female family members that would never date bisexual men, since they feel they're secretly gay. My sister said "If I have to worry about him around women, I'll go crazy having to worry about both men & women around him"

But admittedly bisexuality in the Black community is incredibly divisive. Due to the "down low" stigma.

Not just bisexuality; homosexuality is frowned upon in the Black community.

Lmao oh that goes without saying. I lucked up by having a dad who just thought it was a phase vs some of the other horror stories I've heard about Black dads.

We lived states apart (me in California, him in one of the rough parts of D.C.) and he planned on buying me a prostitute to help "fix" me next I visited him. But he passed away before that could ever happen. I was honestly expecting violence when I came out to him, so I'll take the situation I got.

LinksLiege posted...

Funkydog posted...

Same reason they dislike us bi people.

They can be disgusting bigots as well.

I've heard bi people on this site and elsewhere talk about how they present themselves as swinging only one way at first just so they have a chance at getting with someone because of the demented prejudice we receive.

Pretty sad state of affairs when a subsection of the community starts replicating the kind of behavior the community is supposed to be a goddamn refuge from.

It's only been a veey small amount from my own experience, but it does happen sadly. And yeah, always make me sigh when an oppressed group goes on to do the same thing they complain about
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s0nicfan posted...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/an-open-letter-to-gay-white-men-no-youre-not-allowed_us_5947f0ffe4b0f7875b83e459

I thought forcing people to engage in sexual acts they don't want to engage in was something we don't want to promote. Y'know - "no means no," that whole thing?
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Webmaster4531 posted...

Why are some gay people Republicans? It's a mystery.

Because they are greedy and willing to sell their personal liberties for a few tax cuts.

Without trans people there never would have been the stonewall riots and the gay rights movement would never have been energized like it was when it was, and consequently marriage equality wouldn't be a thing yet, at least not in the US.
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Abyssea posted...

hollow_shrine posted...

Abyssea posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

@Abyssea posted...

the day they try to take drag from us is the day the bridge is officially burnt imo. it is shaky enough as it is.

Wasn't censoring RuPaul's show that day?

Almost. :v They're on thin ice. It was an outrage. I can't even share my favorite rupaul song anymore because it has the T word in it.

If that word is a slur for transpeople, I think that's fair. We know enough of the cruelty we've endured to make an effort not to inflict that on our allies. And trans people are our allies. The average young adult gay man has no idea who Marsha P. Johnston, or Sylvia Riviera is and only watched enough of Paris is Burning to steal the queer slang. Transpeople have been bleeding in the name of gay rights from jump, and some of us have the goddamn nerve to erase them or disrespect them. That deeply offends my sense of justice. It should offend all of us.

Rupaul has been performing in drag since the 80s. >_> She should be able to say the T word.

Rupaul isn't trans. It's like saying that because bill gates has financed things that have improved the life of people in Africa since the 90s, he should get to say the n-word. He's still white. Rupaul is still cis. It's not a word that harms them, so they can't reclaim it either.
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I've noticed bisexual people are also often shunned, it's a strange phenomenon for a community that has spent so long preaching and seeking acceptance.
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Syntheticon posted...

I've noticed bisexual people are also often shunned, it's a strange phenomenon for a community that has spent so long preaching and seeking acceptance.

I hear people say that, but I have never seen it.

CiIantro posted...

Syntheticon posted...

I've noticed bisexual people are also often shunned, it's a strange phenomenon for a community that has spent so long preaching and seeking acceptance.

I hear people say that, but I have never seen it.

There's this concept of a gold star lesbian. Never had sex with a man, never dated one, arguably never even kissed one. The only people who use the term (outside of defining it like I'm doing) are the ones who only date others who meet that standard.
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CiIantro posted...

Syntheticon posted...

I've noticed bisexual people are also often shunned, it's a strange phenomenon for a community that has spent so long preaching and seeking acceptance.

I hear people say that, but I have never seen it.

It's a lot more common than you think. Go on Twitter and you'll eventually see it.

CiIantro posted...

Syntheticon posted...

I've noticed bisexual people are also often shunned, it's a strange phenomenon for a community that has spent so long preaching and seeking acceptance.

I hear people say that, but I have never seen it.

I've definitely suffered from it. It's very much the minority but it does happen sadly
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CiIantro posted...

Because they are greedy and willing to sell their personal liberties for a few tax cuts

The economy is more important than a hot button social issue that affects a small portion of the population.
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Because somebody who likes the same sex and somebody who doesn't like their gender are two completely different things and grouping them together is silly.
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