Current Events > What do you think of the MGTOW "movement"?

(+) Yeah! (+)

MGTOW = "Men Go Their Own Way"

I think I empathize with them and probably would be a member of this "movement" myself, but at the same time I know they can be extreme with their words and actions.
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another manifestation of modernity
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PikachuMaxwell posted...

MGTOW = "Men Go Their Own Way"

I think I empathize with them and probably would be a member of this "movement" myself, but at the same time I know they can be extreme with their words and actions.

too extreme. also there seems to be two versions of it: people who are bitter about divorce, and people who are just disillusioned with romance from the get-go. i'm not opposed to the idea of withdrawing from romance to pursue growth and self-development, but it doesn't have to be an all or nothing game either.

TheMikh posted...

another manifestation of modernity

explain?
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I mean I guess the premise itself isn't bad, but I don't really care for it.
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A great thing and it is not a movement.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOgxDCgtoI" data-time="
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It sounds good for what it means but the neckbeards that support it are scum.
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the average man is unfuckable

the average woman gets blasted by limitless chad dick
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I find it peculiar that "their own way" is always away from women.
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Never figured it was an actual movement.

Thought it was just a load of unproductive bitching.
Much like their female counterpart...
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MedeaLysistrata posted...

explain?

in short, some combination of social engineering, skewed economic incentives, and medical/technological developments have resulted in a radical changes in values and behavior that are driving an ongoing breakdown of more organic and (dare i say) traditional dynamics between the genders which is making both incredibly miserable and fostering relations between the two that are best characterized as mutual animus

mgtow appears to be not just a reaction to this zeitgeist, but also very much a part of it

from an individual risk mitigation standpoint it is quite reasonable, but at the societal level, it is as unsustainable as contemporary feminism
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Someone please explain to me the difference between Incels, Redpillers, MGTOW, and MRA
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FL81 posted...

Someone please explain to me the difference between Incels, Redpillers, MGTOW, and MRA

List of differences:

.
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FL81 posted...

Someone please explain to me the difference between Incels, Redpillers, MGTOW, and MRA

mra = politics + gender relations
redpillers = nrx + gender relations
mgtow = redpillers + mra + voluntary celibacy
incels = involuntary celibacy
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FL81 posted...

Someone please explain to me the difference between Incels, Redpillers, MGTOW, and MRA

From an outsider's perspective, it seems like incels are more "I deserve sex that's being denied me" and MGTOW are more "I want it but it's not worth the effort so who cares"
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FL81 posted...

Someone please explain to me the difference between Incels, Redpillers, MGTOW, and MRA

There really isn't as they tend to overlap.

Incel thinks they are owed sex and are angry at the world they are getting what they "deserve".

Redpillers are pick up artist types. They think women like bring treated like shit and if they things like negging then women will line them.

MGTOW think women suck and that they are better being alone.

MRA are basically anti-feminist at this point.
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Tmaster148 posted...

FL81 posted...

Someone please explain to me the difference between Incels, Redpillers, MGTOW, and MRA

There really isn't as they tend to overlap.

Incel thinks they are owed sex and are angry at the world they are getting what they "deserve".

Redpillers are pick up artist types. They think women like bring treated like shit and if they things like negging then women will line them.

MGTOW think women suck and that they are better being alone.

MRA are basically anti-feminist at this point.

Pretty much.
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TheMikh posted...

MedeaLysistrata posted...

explain?

in short, some combination of social engineering, skewed economic incentives, and medical/technological developments have resulted in a radical changes in values and behavior that are driving an ongoing breakdown of more organic and (dare i say) traditional dynamics between the genders which is making both incredibly miserable and fostering relations between the two that are best characterized as mutual animus

mgtow appears to be not just a reaction to this zeitgeist, but also very much a part of it

from an individual risk mitigation standpoint it is quite reasonable, but at the societal level, it is as unsustainable as contemporary feminism

i think the modern period of human history is more or less over, but not everyone thinks that; so, i would say these observations are more so a consequence of the end of modernity rather than a consequence of modernity itself. but that is more of a semantic quibble than anything.

i definitely agree that older institutions are being eroded, challenged, contested, re-negotiated. i also want to add to your point that we are kind of in a power-vacuum period of history where there is no primary paradigm (not that there ever was one at the global level, but i assume we're talking about the western world), and we can find evidence for this in the fact that there is already more than one manosphere movement, rather then it being a united front- it's also visible in feminist diversity, and other social discourses could probably be piled on as further evidence.

i'm really interested in what the historical period that follows from modernism is going to look like. postmodernity on its own is more of a negation of modernity than its own entity, and i suppose that is what has led to this ideological vacuum we are experiencing.

also, though, i get the sense that a lot of the tension between the genders is mostly just because of the internet and how much time we spend on it. people are more 'modern' offline than online.
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Tmaster148 posted...

MRA are basically anti-feminist at this point.

i should mention that mra started as an offshoot of the feminist movement by a male feminist (farrell) with the full support of NOW (which of course was founded by friedan, the progenitor of second wave feminism)

friedan fell from grace in the movement in the 80s due to her criticism of the direction feminism had begun to take

not so sure why farrell has also become kryptonite to modern feminism since his message hasn't really changed since the 70s
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TheMikh posted...

FL81 posted...

Someone please explain to me the difference between Incels, Redpillers, MGTOW, and MRA

mra = politics + gender relations
redpillers = nrx + gender relations
mgtow = redpillers + mra + voluntary celibacy
incels = involuntary celibacy

You've got that wrong. MGTOW aren't activists of any sort. That would require that they still believe things can change, which they don't. It's only about changing themselves since society and women aren't budging. Also, you can be MGTOW and still date. It's just a matter of not committing or falling victim to marriage or children.
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MedeaLysistrata posted...

TheMikh posted...

MedeaLysistrata posted...

explain?

in short, some combination of social engineering, skewed economic incentives, and medical/technological developments have resulted in a radical changes in values and behavior that are driving an ongoing breakdown of more organic and (dare i say) traditional dynamics between the genders which is making both incredibly miserable and fostering relations between the two that are best characterized as mutual animus

mgtow appears to be not just a reaction to this zeitgeist, but also very much a part of it

from an individual risk mitigation standpoint it is quite reasonable, but at the societal level, it is as unsustainable as contemporary feminism

i think the modern period of human history is more or less over, but not everyone thinks that; so, i would say these observations are more so a consequence of the end of modernity rather than a consequence of modernity itself. but that is more of a semantic quibble than anything.

i definitely agree that older institutions are being eroded, challenged, contested, re-negotiated. i also want to add to your point that we are kind of in a power-vacuum period of history where there is no primary paradigm (not that there ever was one at the global level, but i assume we're talking about the western world), and we can find evidence for this in the fact that there is already more than one manosphere movement, rather then it being a united front- it's also visible in feminist diversity, and other social discourses could probably be piled on as further evidence.

i'm really interested in what the historical period that follows from modernism is going to look like. postmodernity on its own is more of a negation of modernity than its own entity, and i suppose that is what has led to this ideological vacuum we are experiencing.

also, though, i get the sense that a lot of the tension between the genders is mostly just because of the internet and how much time we spend on it. people are more 'modern' offline than online.

well stated.

it's not implausible, in my opinion, that the ideological decentralization could prove permanent as decentralized mediums of discourse challenge that of more centralized institutions.

meanwhile, the more centralized manifestations of the aforementioned artificial skewing of incentives and social engineering will arguably collapse or shift at some point

while this will not restore traditional ideals that more reactionary types advocate for (now will the ideals of their opposites reign supreme), there will indeed be an organic renegotiation of values that proves more sustainable. the process by which this is accomplished will likely be as chaotic as the breakdown of the old order, albeit more incremental.
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SpiralDrift posted...

TheMikh posted...

FL81 posted...

Someone please explain to me the difference between Incels, Redpillers, MGTOW, and MRA

mra = politics + gender relations
redpillers = nrx + gender relations
mgtow = redpillers + mra + voluntary celibacy
incels = involuntary celibacy

You've got that wrong. MGTOW aren't activists of any sort. That would require that they still believe things can change, which they don't. It's only about changing themselves since society and women aren't budging. Also, you can be MGTOW and still date. It's just a matter of not committing or falling victim to marriage or children.

i agree that they're not activists (beyond actively proselytizing), but they do recognize the same problems affecting men as mras, which they factor into their risk assessment.
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TheMikh posted...

it's not implausible, in my opinion, that the ideological decentralization could prove permanent as decentralized mediums of discourse challenge that of more centralized institutions.

meanwhile, the more centralized manifestations of the aforementioned artificial skewing of incentives and social engineering will arguably collapse or shift at some point

while this will not restore traditional ideals that more reactionary types advocate for (now will the ideals of their opposites reign supreme), there will indeed be an organic renegotiation of values that proves more sustainable. the process by which this is accomplished will likely be as chaotic as the breakdown of the old order, albeit more incremental.

i'm not against a permanent power vacuum, but it might prove to be... a strain on our souls. but maybe that is what will liberate humanity.

but if the ideological landscape remains decentralized, the consequence that points to is super interesting: it would only be possible that our renegotiation of values occurs at the meta level, i.e, values about how to have values, rather than what the values themselves are
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