Current Events > Michigan court sides against Planet Fitness: 'Trans women aren't women'

(+) Yeah! (+)

DarkTransient posted...

I've always thought this would be the best solution to the whole transgender bathroom / changing room issue. Get rid of gendered rooms in the first place and just have single-user (gender-neutral) ones.

Aside from fixing the entire "which one should trans people use" issue, it also fixes the (admittedly, less significant) "I don't want people listening to me take a shit" issue too.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why we need Gender Neutral Pee/Poo rooms with individual stalls that are fully privatized for 1 person and have Anti-Peeping / Creeping grates all over.

Female Urinals already exist, we can convert all existing Urinals to work for Men / Women.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

DarkTransient posted...

I've always thought this would be the best solution to the whole transgender bathroom / changing room issue. Get rid of gendered rooms in the first place and just have single-user (gender-neutral) ones.

Aside from fixing the entire "which one should trans people use" issue, it also fixes the (admittedly, less significant) "I don't want people listening to me take a shit" issue too.

My thoughts exactly.

That's why we need Gender Neutral Pee/Poo rooms with individual stalls that are fully privatized for 1 person and have Anti-Peeping / Creeping grates all over.

Female Urinals already exist, we can convert all existing Urinals to work for Men / Women.

Yes let's change millions of bathrooms across America over this insanity

Many places are the making the shift to having single occupancy, all-gender bathrooms
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KhanJohnny posted...

Yes let's change millions of bathrooms across America over this insanity

It'll create plenty of job opportunities.

And most every bathroom in CA has already changed to be "Gender Neutral".

It's only a matter of time till your state / country gets it too!
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HylianFox posted...

Many places are the making the shift to having single occupancy, all-gender bathrooms

One toilet, one sink, one door, one lock.

Questionmarktarius posted...

HylianFox posted...

Many places are the making the shift to having single occupancy, all-gender bathrooms

One toilet, one sink, one door, one lock.

Exactly, also baby-changing stations
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Why can't everyone just drop a bunch of money to overhaul their facilities?
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No but seriously, if you can't live without the privacy there's no reason your combined locker room will solve any problems. Prisons keep inmates fully public for security reasons. Obviously I wouldn't want to feel like I'm taking a prison shower any time I go to the gym, but you get what you get.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

It'll create plenty of job opportunities.

Seriously, why do conservatives hate jobs?
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P4wn4g3 posted...

No but seriously, if you can't live without the privacy there's no reason your combined locker room will solve any problems. Prisons keep inmates fully public for security reasons. Obviously I wouldn't want to feel like I'm taking a prison shower any time I go to the gym, but you get what you get.

This isn't a Prison, it's a common facility:

But it does solve the privacy issue:
1) People can change their clothes in private (ergo be naked momentarily)
2) People can shower without fear of on-lookers
3) People can Pee / Poo in private and we have a larger common pool of Pee / Poo stalls
4) Everybody has access to a larger communal room for a Locker Room to throw stuff in to be locked up.

I'm sure you enjoy guys looking at your junk while you're in that large common shower room and getting to see other guys junk.

But I take no pleasure in looking at another man's junk.
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BLAKUboy posted...

Seriously, why do conservatives hate jobs?

They get bribed to change laws / regulations for the rich.

It's Crony Capitalism at it's core.

And it needs to be eradicated with a vengeance!
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We need to find a group of trans men who look extremely masculine, with beards, muscles, and chest hair and everything, and send them to her locker room. I'd love to hear how she'd try to weasel around her logic when it contradicts her.
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Wetterdew posted...

We need to find a group of trans men who look extremely masculine, with beards, muscles, and chest hair and everything, and send them to her locker room. I'd love to hear how she'd try to weasel around her logic when it contradicts her.

Well.... well they uhh..... they intimidate me too! They LOOK like men!
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HylianFox posted...

alleging that she suffered a violation of privacy, as well as embarrassment, humiliation, severe emotional distress, and damage to her reputation.

lol wut?

by people considering her to just be a pervert, maybe?
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

I'm sure you enjoy guys looking at your junk while you're in that large common shower room and getting to see other guys junk.

But I take no pleasure in looking at another man's junk.

This is literally not a problem, what the fuck dude. It doesn't happen, at least not to some uncomfortable degree. No land owner is going to look at the large monetary cost you are suggesting here and say "man this guy is a genius"

Besides, if you're going the 'treat everyone special' route I figure you'd be all for free love for everyone as well. That would be the sincere way to do things anyway.
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Wetterdew posted...

We need to find a group of trans men who look extremely masculine, with beards, muscles, and chest hair and everything, and send them to her locker room. I'd love to hear how she'd try to weasel around her logic when it contradicts her.

This is also a great idea. :D
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P4wn4g3 posted...

No land owner is going to look at the large monetary cost you are suggesting here and say "man this guy is a genius"

They said the same thing about putting in OSHA standards and putting in changes for "Handicapped" folks too!.

Besides, if you're going the 'treat everyone special' route I figure you'd be all for free love for everyone as well. That would be the sincere way to do things anyway.

I'm all for free love, just not in a public space like "Public Bathrooms, Public Changing Rooms, Public Showers".

Go to your own home or get a hotel room if you're going to have your orgy.

Don't mess up Public Communal spaces!!!
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

They said the same thing about putting in OSHA standards and putting in changes for "Handicapped" folks too!.

Those are necessities. Your privacy isn't. At least not when you're sacrificing your privacy to begin with.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Go to your own home or get a hotel room if you're going to have your orgy.

Meh. I'm not an orgy person. Public sex is kinky though.
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darkjedilink posted...

Well, TC, they are correct. A simple DNA test proves it.

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Why spend money at a strip club when a planet fitness membership is cheaper and you get to watch the ladies shower
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Those are necessities. Your privacy isn't. At least not when you're sacrificing your privacy to begin with.

I'm finding ways to not have to sacrifice a individuals privacy while making a more integrated / communal area.
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RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

Fair as hell, and I bet that woman was seriously disturbed by a male in the womens locker room.

This
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DarkTransient posted...

Wetterdew posted...

We need to find a group of trans men who look extremely masculine, with beards, muscles, and chest hair and everything, and send them to her locker room. I'd love to hear how she'd try to weasel around her logic when it contradicts her.

This is also a great idea. :D

I am sure she has seen hairy women in the locker room before.
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Good on the courts. If you still got a penis or can't even pass as a female visually, you belong in the men's room.

I'm seriously getting tired of these issues.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

Those are necessities. Your privacy isn't. At least not when you're sacrificing your privacy to begin with.

I'm finding ways to not have to sacrifice a individuals privacy while making a more integrated / communal area.

I mean, you're sacrificing privacy of a sort that our society tends to really like for whatever reason. You're sounding very demanding with all this. Shared bathrooms? Sure. Shared locker rooms? Sure. Everyone gets their own private Eric Cartman bathroom with a security guard posted outside? What the fuck are you smoking dude. It's a fucking bathroom, get over it.
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Patty_Fleur posted...

I'm seriously getting tired of these issues.

It is going to get worse before it gets better
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P4wn4g3 posted...

with a security guard posted outside?

I never ever stated that part.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

It's a fucking bathroom, get over it.

You can get used to change then!
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

with a security guard posted outside?

I never ever stated that part.

You may as well, it'll be next because you are always taking it to the next level so there's no pleasing you. Just leave it at a reasonable compromise.
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*Votes Republican*

*Outraged when Republican justices come to decisions that go against her very personhood*
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P4wn4g3 posted...

You may as well, it'll be next because you are always taking it to the next level so there's no pleasing you. Just leave it at a reasonable compromise.

But I didn't, and don't put words in my mouth.

My reasonable compromise is that we all share the same communal facilities while having individual privacy at critical points.
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ASithLord7 posted...

*Votes Republican*

*Outraged when Republican justices come to decisions that go against her very personhood*

*defends with "I didn't think they were going to win all 3 branches"*
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So who wants to join the Religious Liberty Taskforce?
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I do agree with the ruling. Some of this trans stuff is getting ridiculous. If you don't pass as a woman, you don't pass. Get over it.
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Hey, I'm back on CE four years ago, where we're having the exact same "bathroom bill" arguments we were back then. Good to see nothing changes.

So I did a little digging into this because I was a bit confused as to what Ms. Cormier saw that unnerved her so.

Here's an account by someone who believes she is the transgender woman observed:

https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2015/03/transgender_woman_says_she_onl.html

She stated that she entered the locker room on two occasions, did not undress, and only stored her bag and purse. She did admit that she's been told her body structure looks rather masculine.

Still...

Patty_Fleur posted...

I do agree with the ruling. Some of this trans stuff is getting ridiculous. If you don't pass as a woman, you don't pass. Get over it.

Who gets to decide a person is trans if not the person themselves?
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Darkman124 posted...

seems odd that the court would choose to make such a broad ruling. they could have simply ruled that this individual trans woman was not a woman, but rather a man attempting to take advantage of the rules, as NeonOctopus jokes.

why do you care so much

Just offer some single stall gender neutral "family room" style room. Like, no shame on someone living how they want, but it doesn't change biological reality. There is a difference between making sure someone doesn't feel discriminated against and trying to change the whole world for a tiny fraction of the population. It would be like radically changing the manufacturing of all gloves for the small percentage of people with more or less fingers than the norm.

Patty_Fleur posted...

I do agree with the ruling. Some of this trans stuff is getting ridiculous. If you don't pass as a woman, you don't pass. Get over it.

Wrong. Tell that to the people who aren't fortunate enough to have a supportive family that lets them come out. Tell that to Leelah Alcorn who committed suicide because her family suppressed her. Tell that to the people who can't afford the insurance to cover the crazy hospital bills. Tell that to the people unlucky enough to be born in a backwards third world country.

Your appearance does not define you. The sooner you learn that, the better.

It costs you nothing to respect a person's identity.

Metro2 posted...

Patty_Fleur posted...

I do agree with the ruling. Some of this trans stuff is getting ridiculous. If you don't pass as a woman, you don't pass. Get over it.

Wrong. Tell that to the people who aren't fortunate enough to have a supportive family that lets them come out. Tell that to Leelah Alcorn who committed suicide because her family suppressed her. Tell that to the people who can't afford the insurance to cover the crazy hospital bills. Tell that to the people unlucky enough to be born in a backwards third world country.

Your appearance does not define you. The sooner you learn that, the better.

It costs you nothing to respect a person's identity.

And yet transpeople identify themselves completely by their appearance and how it isn't what they want it to be

KhanJohnny posted...

And yet transpeople identify themselves completely by their appearance and how it isn't what they want it to be

No, a transgender person defines themselves by how they identify. How they dress is merely an expression of that. How they modify their bodies is so they can look in the mirror and see what they identify as.
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Trans people pls come to the gym already changed
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$25000 my fat ass. If anything, just refund her membership. She's just looking for a quick payday.
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Is this the one where the woman in question was just a creeper dude that just wanted to stare at other women change and not an actual trans?
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CyricZ posted...

KhanJohnny posted...

And yet transpeople identify themselves completely by their appearance and how it isn't what they want it to be

No, a transgender person defines themselves by how they identify. How they dress is merely an expression of that. How they modify their bodies is so they can look in the mirror and see what they identify as.

And if they look in the mirror and see a penis when they want a vagina, guess what? They ain't happy because they define themselves by an appearance that is impossible for them to have.

KhanJohnny posted...

CyricZ posted...

KhanJohnny posted...

And yet transpeople identify themselves completely by their appearance and how it isn't what they want it to be

No, a transgender person defines themselves by how they identify. How they dress is merely an expression of that. How they modify their bodies is so they can look in the mirror and see what they identify as.

And if they look in the mirror and see a penis when they want a vagina, guess what? They ain't happy because they define themselves by an appearance that is impossible for them to have.

I have to wonder if its the same as being ugly or out of shape or whatever.
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