Current Events > why do feminists focus on petty issues so much?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lil_Bit83 posted...

QueenCarly posted...

Lil_Bit83 posted...

sexism is equally bad on both sides

When men start fearing for their lives when they reject a romantically interested woman you'll have a point.

Your only proving my point about sexism being bad on both sides further. Belittling others problems just because they're the opposite gender makes you no better.

Are you suggesting that we women are such pure innocent creatures that not a single one of us isn't capable of being abusive, cruel, a sexual predator, a psycho, a stalker, violent, or manipulative?

Must be nice to live in your own self righteous little world.

I've known plenty of girls of all sorts.

Gender equality isn't supposed to be about men against women. Its supposed to be about being compassionate and helpful to your fellow human beings.

But I guess thats above hypocrites who use human rights movements as an excuse to exercise their bigotry.

Of course women are capable of being abusive. Of course men are capable of being abused.

However, men are not systematically abused by women.

Individual cases need to be dealt with one by one and taken wholly seriously, but we dont have a society wide problem with women abusing men. It is men killing/beating/raping women.
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scar the 1 posted...

https://www.womensmarch.com/mission/

Ending violence
Reproductive rights
LGBTQIA rights
Worker's rights
Civil rights
Disability rights
Immigrant rights
Environmental justice

Doesn't look so petty. It seems like you're choosing to focus on the arguably petty issues feminists bring up in addition to the big issues.

I mean, only the second one listed is purely a feminist issue. The rest do have varying degrees of feminism to them. Can't say environmental justice has much to do with feminism.

I understand what you're just doing is quoting the women's march, but you need some more specific examples as to the necessity of feminism today. Those are really just a collection of left wing issues.
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CyricZ posted...

There are two types of people in this world who complain about feminists, and quite frankly you're trying to be both.

1) "Feminists complain about stuff that doesn't matter! I'm here and I'm fine and my perspective on life and society is generally good so clearly anything that feminists complain about doesn't matter!" or the "never walked a mile in their shoes" mentality.

2) "Why does it always have to be about THEM? Everyone has problems, not just women! Why won't these feminists march and fight for MY PROBLEMS?" or the "get off your ass and solve your problems yourself instead of expecting women to do it for you" mentality.

These issues are a lot more complex than you are making them out to be. You sound a lot more like the people you are criticizing. People need to stop this black and white thinking of grouping other people and start listening to individual opinions better.
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Most of them are fat c**** with nothing going on in their lives.
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QueenCarly posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

Rather than admitting that feminism has actual issues you resort to attacking critics of it by calling them sexist. Well stfu, I don't need your bigotry or your stupid opinion.

Mainstream feminism focuses too much on the problems of cis white bourgeoisie women.

It has its issues, but they are not the ones you're going to be calling it out for "having."

This. Modern feminism needs to expand its scope a bit. Way too much focus on women who are fairly well off with more minor issues. Social inequality is significantly more complex than gender alone. Start adding in ethnicity and socioeconomic status to the equation.
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The only way you might come to that conclusion is if you're really dumb and get all your information about feminists from a handful of places on the internet, but surely that's not the case
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shockthemonkey posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

scar the 1 posted...

https://www.womensmarch.com/mission/

Ending violence
Reproductive rights
LGBTQIA rights
Worker's rights
Civil rights
Disability rights
Immigrant rights
Environmental justice

Doesn't look so petty. It seems like you're choosing to focus on the arguably petty issues feminists bring up in addition to the big issues.

I mean, only the second one listed is purely a feminist issue. The rest do have varying degrees of feminism to them. Can't say environmental justice has much to do with feminism.

I understand what you're just doing is quoting the women's march, but you need some more specific examples as to the necessity of feminism today. Those are really just a collection of left wing issues.

The president wants to overturn Roe v Wade

Ok that is better, but you've still only mentioned one issue. You also need to acknowledge that Roe v. Wade is very much alive and it is still pretty unlikely for it to be overturned completely. Recent Supreme Court nominations have done no favors and there may be more coming, but it is still unlikely to be completely overturned. It is more likely that they attempt to weaken it and cut funding. The sneaky way of handling things.

I guess I'm just always irritated at the freak out over these issues. Granted, Roe v. Wade is at risk, but people need to discuss exactly why and how it is at risk. I know we have a cartoon villain as our president, but we can still have an intellectual discussion here. There are some checks and balances to his power that prevent him from pursuing everything that he states.

But yeah you probably stated Roe v. Wade because it requires the lowest effort to state.
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shockthemonkey posted...

Boy, that shut everyone up real fast

Or your argument was a sperglord tangent that nobody wants to respond to since doing so would give it a tiny amount of legitimacy.

iClockwork posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

Boy, that shut everyone up real fast

Or your argument was a sperglord tangent that nobody wants to respond to since doing so would give it a tiny amount of legitimacy.

Everyone just read it and thought he was an idiot. They shook their head and clicked topic list. He isnt very smart thats why he declared victory after 20mins.

If he was smart hed realize feminists arent trying to fix anything he mentioned, instead they are crying about the ac being too cold, so no, we dont need feminism.
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This is going places.
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You could point to how feminism is working on those issues. I'd hope it's more key to the cause than manspreading.
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shockthemonkey posted...

So the Supreme Court has already ruled that women can be discriminated against by their employer when it comes to healthcare, were one Supreme Court Justice way from seeing Roe v Wade overturned with full support of the highest ranking government officials, Congress is overwhelming male and always has been, were in the middle of the #MeToo movement with a president whos been caught bragging about sexual assault, there is no guarantees paid maternity leave, and mothers die during childbirth at higher rates than anywhere else in the industrialized world.

But sure, we dont need feminism because some dudes say so.

The President is a traitorous idiot who very likely has sexually assaulted women and probably some underage ones too. I will give you that feminism is one mean of countering him, but the guy is stupid and corrupt at everything he does. There are a lot of groups going after him. The single most important one is the Mueller investigation. Upcoming midterm elections matter a lot too.

Congress has been overwhelmingly male and that is far from the only problem. I welcome more diverse candidates of all types, but the biggest problem is these people being bought off by lobbyists. That is what really need to get fixed. The problem isn't the demographics of the people in congress, but how well they represent their constituents. I agree that what constituents want is changing and congress must too or get voted out and replaced. Them there is the whole gerrymandering thing....

The #MeToo movement has been calming down as some of the people implicated in it are in more of a grey area. That movement is worthy of a bit of criticism, but I will very much acknowledge it as mostly a good thing despite some questionable allegations. We are at a point where we need to do a bit more waiting before reacting.

No guaranteed maternity leave and the high rate of mothers dying during childbirth are beyond embarrassing. No excuse for that BS. Only thing I will say is it is far from the only problem worth fixing. Not to diminish this one particularly important issue, but our country has been experiencing numerous problems that need fixing that never should have needed it. Homeless veterans, banking regulation, healthcare, prison reform, etc. We are a mess...

Supreme Court is definitely an issue worth noting. It is looking increasingly conservative and this may have long term implications. Still, even completely overturning Roe v. Wade is unlikely to happen. It is much more likely that they slowly nip away at it. Not to say it isn't an issue very worthy of concern, but it isn't as dramatic as you state.

I agree we very much need feminism today, but feminism needs to take some of the criticism it has received in recent years. The have a lot of pennywise dollar dumb mentality going on. Losing their minds over manspreading and other similar crap. They need to be more calm and under control. They need to better stand up for menus issues and make men better ally's. Feminism has gotten too divisive over the years. Break down the militant barriers of oppression and be willing to have more calm and open discussions.
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What does higher death rates during child birth have to do with feminism? Do you think there is some conspiracy to give women lesser health care? It's probably because America is extremely fat so people as a whole have more health risks.

Landwhales are angry that they have health issues and difficulty giving birth, amazing anyone is even willing to have sex with them.
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TommyG663513 posted...

No guaranteed maternity leave

False.
https://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/finalrule/NonMilitaryFAQs.htm

Q. Can I still use FMLA leave during pregnancy or after the birth of a child?

A. Yes. An employees ability to use FMLA leave during pregnancy or after the birth of a child has not changed. Under the regulations, a mother can use 12 weeks of FMLA leave for the birth of a child, for prenatal care and incapacity related to pregnancy, and for her own serious health condition following the birth of a child. A father can use FMLA leave for the birth of a child and to care for his spouse who is incapacitated (due to pregnancy or child birth).

No guaranteed paid maternity leave.
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QueenCarly posted...

No guaranteed paid maternity leave.

There's been several proposals to use unemployment and/or temporary disability insurance for maternity leave, and a handful of states already do so.
https://www.disabilitysecrets.com/resources/disability/short-term-disability-laws/short-term-disability-pregnancy-leave-laws.htm

Questionmarktarius posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

No guaranteed maternity leave

False.
https://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/finalrule/NonMilitaryFAQs.htm

Q. Can I still use FMLA leave during pregnancy or after the birth of a child?

A. Yes. An employees ability to use FMLA leave during pregnancy or after the birth of a child has not changed. Under the regulations, a mother can use 12 weeks of FMLA leave for the birth of a child, for prenatal care and incapacity related to pregnancy, and for her own serious health condition following the birth of a child. A father can use FMLA leave for the birth of a child and to care for his spouse who is incapacitated (due to pregnancy or child birth).

FMLA isn't the same. Can very much argue 12 weeks is not enough.
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I think that summing all feminism as that is just as stupid.

On top of that, it's the little things that add up and I can understand why some of those things are frustrating to a woman who is experiencing it. I know that if someone was 'mansplaining' something to me condescendingly all the time, I'd be pretty irritated about it too.

Well this is a hard topic to grasp because there's two feminisms. There's the idea of feminism which is fighting for the equality of the sexes. Then there's the actual feminist movement in America which has morphed into a bastardized version of it's original form. I'm a proponent of feminism, but I do not support the feminist movement in America because I feel they have lost their way. There's way too much man hating and radicalists in the feminist movement for me to support it. Plus things like the fact that people still throw around the statement that women make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes despite that being conclusively disproved a long time ago. See feminism would tell us to be thankful that there isn't a wage gap issue to solve, whereas feminists will remain in denial and attack anyone who tries to correct them on the wage gap myth. Largely because feminism is about equality, so equal wages is a good thing, whereas feminists want to Garner as much power and influence as possible, I guess due to one of two beliefs, either they think they need to fight for more than equality to end up in the middle somewhere, like how you always over ask initially in a negotiation so you can end up where you want to be. Or the second one is that they feel like women have been oppressed by men for so long that it's only fair if women are allowed to be the oppressors for a while.

I obviously don't buy into either belief because they're both predicated on the notion that men must lose in order for women to win/catch up. That's just wrong. What's good for men is good for women, and what's good for women is good for men. And the latter of the two beliefs is especially egregious since it not only fails to solve the problem, but it actually makes it worse.
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nicklebro posted...

there's two feminisms.

Way more than two, but good luck getting CE to buy in on that.
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nicklebro posted...

Well this is a hard topic to grasp because there's two feminisms. There's the idea of feminism which is fighting for the equality of the sexes. Then there's the actual feminist movement in America which has morphed into a bastardized version of it's original form. I'm a proponent of feminism, but I do not support the feminist movement in America because I feel they have lost their way. There's way too much man hating and radicalists in the feminist movement for me to support it. Plus things like the fact that people still throw around the statement that women make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes despite that being conclusively disproved a long time ago. See feminism would tell us to be thankful that there isn't a wage gap issue to solve, whereas feminists will remain in denial and attack anyone who tries to correct them on the wage gap myth. Largely because feminism is about equality, so equal wages is a good thing, whereas feminists want to Garner as much power and influence as possible, I guess due to one of two beliefs, either they think they need to fight for more than equality to end up in the middle somewhere, like how you always over ask initially in a negotiation so you can end up where you want to be. Or the second one is that they feel like women have been oppressed by men for so long that it's only fair if women are allowed to be the oppressors for a while.

I obviously don't buy into either belief because they're both predicated on the notion that men must lose in order for women to win/catch up. That's just wrong. What's good for men is good for women, and what's good for women is good for men. And the latter of the two beliefs is especially egregious since it not only fails to solve the problem, but it actually makes it worse.

What an absolutely uneducated and elementary understanding of what feminism is...holy shit.

CyricZ posted...

nicklebro posted...

there's two feminisms.

Way more than two, but good luck getting CE to buy in on that.

Well there's definitely way more than two, but imo theyre usually just variations of the two I listed. I was just highlighting how feminism was coopted by what are now present day feminists who have mishandled it and allowed it to be heavily influenced by the more extreme fringes of it's ranks until we have "high ranking" feminists saying things like all men are evil until proven otherwise and that it's totally fine to sacrifice a few innocent men in order to bring down all of the actually guilty men, and I could go on from there.

iClockwork posted...

What an absolutely uneducated and elementary understanding of what feminism is...holy shit.

Sweet, nothing supports my post more than you saying it's wrong. The more butthurt your post, the better my argument looks.
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The original feminists already did the work and achieved what was important.

Todays feminists have nothing but petty shit like online trash talk that EVERYONE faces.

nicklebro posted...

The more butthurt your post, the better my argument looks.

No ones butt hurt, quit projecting. Your post reads as if you skimmed a kotaku article on feminism and regurgitated it.

It makes me feel bad that you spent time writing that up thinking you had some enlightened take on it when really it made other users and I grimace.

TommyG663513 posted...

I mean, only the second one listed is purely a feminist issue. The rest do have varying degrees of feminism to them. Can't say environmental justice has much to do with feminism.

I understand what you're just doing is quoting the women's march, but you need some more specific examples as to the necessity of feminism today. Those are really just a collection of left wing issues.

I quoted the Women's March because it's a big, organized platform with clearly expressed principles that are accessible.
I also quoted it to highlight something else:
Feminism isn't an issue in itself, and feminists in general don't think there are specific "feminist issues". Feminism, like liberalism, socialism, conservatism, etc is an ideology, within which there are stances on all issues. There are of course issues such as abortion, maternity leave, discrimination of pregnant women etc that are specifically related to women's rights, but feminism doesn't stop there. And yes, as an ideology feminism has grown into a quite left-leaning one. Probably because a lot of the reasoning is founded on the principles of solidarity.
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Wow two posts in a row devoid of any substamce, yet chock full of anger and butthurt. Judging by that reaction it might actually be one of the best posts ever.

Don't ruin it by pretending to make an actual argument, we both know you ain't about that life lol.
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nicklebro posted...

Wow two posts in a row devoid of any substamce, yet chock full of anger and butthurt. Judging by that reaction it might actually be one of the best posts ever.

Your unironic belief in that is simultaneously the best and worst parts of that post.

Dash_Harber posted...

I think that summing all feminism as that is just as stupid.

On top of that, it's the little things that add up and I can understand why some of those things are frustrating to a woman who is experiencing it. I know that if someone was 'mansplaining' something to me condescendingly all the time, I'd be pretty irritated about it too.

lol

iClockwork posted...

nicklebro posted...

Wow two posts in a row devoid of any substamce, yet chock full of anger and butthurt. Judging by that reaction it might actually be one of the best posts ever.

Your unironic belief in that is simultaneously the best and worst parts of that post.

Three posts dedicated to soothing your butthurt?! Man I must have hit the nail right on the head. Then again I guess I kinda have you trapped to keep churning out your troll posts. You can't just stop posting, because you know that means you've conceded you have no response. And you can't challenge the actual merit of my post with a well reasoned and logical refutation, cuz lmao yeah right. So you're stuck trying to troll your way out of this mess. Lol good luck.
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nicklebro posted...

Three posts dedicated to soothing your butthurt?! Man I must have hit the nail right on the head. Then again I guess I kinda have you trapped to keep churning out your troll posts. You can't just stop posting, because you know that means you've conceded you have no response. And you can't challenge the actual merit of my post with a well reasoned and logical refutation, cuz lmao yeah right. So you're stuck trying to troll your way out of this mess. Lol good luck.

the downward spiral continues

Lmao called it! I got you under my thumb, and there ain't shit you can do about it.
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nicklebro posted...

they're both predicated on the notion that men must lose in order for women to win/catch up.

The idea of feminism directly contradicts this.

Backup this claim otherwise your argument holds no validity.

WafflehouseJK posted...

... Shouldn't the push then instead be for less sexist clothing mandates/allowing women to wear suits or longer sleeved clothing to work instead of complaining about the airconditioning?

I feel like they're going after the wrong thing there.

The kicker is, women want to wear cute clothes usually. They don't want to wear more clothing, they want to wear their cute outfits and not be cold.
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scar the 1 posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

I mean, only the second one listed is purely a feminist issue. The rest do have varying degrees of feminism to them. Can't say environmental justice has much to do with feminism.

I understand what you're just doing is quoting the women's march, but you need some more specific examples as to the necessity of feminism today. Those are really just a collection of left wing issues.

I quoted the Women's March because it's a big, organized platform with clearly expressed principles that are accessible.
I also quoted it to highlight something else:
Feminism isn't an issue in itself, and feminists in general don't think there are specific "feminist issues". Feminism, like liberalism, socialism, conservatism, etc is an ideology, within which there are stances on all issues. There are of course issues such as abortion, maternity leave, discrimination of pregnant women etc that are specifically related to women's rights, but feminism doesn't stop there. And yes, as an ideology feminism has grown into a quite left-leaning one. Probably because a lot of the reasoning is founded on the principles of solidarity.

Yeah, but the argument is about the necessity of feminism today. You are saying it yourself that other ideologies cover many of the issues you brought up. Why have feminism then and specifically what good does it do in comparison to other similar ideologies. You haven't exactly answered that.

For the record, I do think feminism is very necessary, but it is also more complicated than that. It is a movement very much worthy of criticism. Way too much focus on the petty issues. Way too many gender studies majors complaining about not enough women in STEM.
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iClockwork posted...

nicklebro posted...

they're both predicated on the notion that men must lose in order for women to win/catch up.

The idea of feminism directly contradicts this.

Backup this claim otherwise your argument holds no validity.

The actions of feminism directly contradict this.

Backup this claim otherwise your argument holds no validity.

See, I can do it too...

But yeah there is a difference between an idea and actions. Which one do you think should be used more to judge a group?
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TommyG663513 posted...

Yeah, but the argument is about the necessity of feminism today. You are saying it yourself that other ideologies cover many of the issues you brought up. Why have feminism then and specifically what good does it do in comparison to other similar ideologies. You haven't exactly answered that.

My original post was in response to the notion that feminists only seem to care about very petty issues. Not about the necessity of feminism. I responded by showing that feminists actually care about a whole range of issues that are very big, since it's an ideology and not just opinions on stuff that relate to only women.

If you want to discuss the necessity of feminism, please do it with an informed feminist. Or better yet, read up on it. Besides, we seem to at least partially agree there.
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scar the 1 posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Yeah, but the argument is about the necessity of feminism today. You are saying it yourself that other ideologies cover many of the issues you brought up. Why have feminism then and specifically what good does it do in comparison to other similar ideologies. You haven't exactly answered that.

My original post was in response to the notion that feminists only seem to care about very petty issues. Not about the necessity of feminism. I responded by showing that feminists actually care about a whole range of issues that are very big, since it's an ideology and not just opinions on stuff that relate to only women.

If you want to discuss the necessity of feminism, please do it with an informed feminist. Or better yet, read up on it. Besides, we seem to at least partially agree there.

I think in terms of caring about only petty issues you would do well to counter it with feminist issues that aren't petty. Instead, you've really only listed off left leaning stances they take that aren't directly a part of feminism.

Telling me to just read up on it isn't exactly how you have a discussion.

I'm just trying to make the point here that modern feminism doesn't really do itself any favors to focus on the manspreading type of stuff. They need to focus on the larger stuff. They need to acknowledge that they are worthy of some criticism and change their focus a bit.
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And my point was never to highlight feminist issues, just to illustrate that feminists don't just focus on "petty stuff". That those principles aren't part of feminism is false. The idea that modern feminism "focuses" on manspreading is false, and if that's the foundation for your opinions on feminism then there's no discussion to be had.

Furthermore, I never asked to have a discussion with you. I suggested you read up on things not so you would qualify for a discussion with me, but because you might learn from it.
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All the real issues have already been solved. Interest groups need a reason to exist. They have to make up weird shit to be offended about.
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shockthemonkey posted...

You could also do the research yourself

Yeah that's nice but I'm not the one blowing smoke about how great feminism is, and you're not making a good case for it. Besides, I've been in a feminism class before. It was 99% indoctrination and spinning history and other shit to look much more sexist than it really was. I don't care to repeat the experience. There are some real issues out there, we don't need fake ones. You'd think a so called progressive might understand this seeing as we literally have Donald Trump the fascist in office and kids are being caged under his orders.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

There are some real issues out there, we don't need fake ones

All that really needs to be said. It's why things like the wage gap myth have been so harmful to their cause.
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