Current Events > I think people honestly overrate STEM degrees

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yes it's a great field. Sure it takes smarts to make it and you have great job security, but that's about it.

You sit behind a desk 5 days a week, You top out at a possible $100k, and you work for someone the rest of your life.

But that's it. In no way is it really prestigious. Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, and even business majors are much more prestigious. Heck do business majors do anything besides silly meetings while somehow making more than engineers? Some of these STEM majors talk like they're gonna be executives flying 1st class with a Lamborghini in the garage LMAO. Please tell me how balling you are with your $80k salary

Unless you plan on taking that STEM degree to bring in $150k or more(Hint: Most don't) you're above average. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well it is much better than being a liberal arts grad working as a BArista (capitalisation intended) for close to minimim wage.
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DragonGirlYuki posted...

Well it is much better than being a liberal arts grad working as a BArista (capitalisation intended) for close to minimim wage.

If someone is working as a barista with ANY BA that's on them and not the degree.
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Bullet_Wing posted...

TC seems bitter

Actually a bachelor's degree in construction management brings in $85k average. Much less math than engineer but just as much money

Does medicine count as STEM
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Bullet_Wing posted...

TC seems bitter

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REMercsChamp posted...

Bullet_Wing posted...

TC seems bitter

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ImInTHIS posted...

Bullet_Wing posted...

TC seems bitter

Actually a bachelor's degree in construction management brings in $85k average. Much less math than engineer but just as much money

And you think an engineer has shitty job conditions and work hours compared to construction management? Lmao
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some countries now are trying to downplay STEM cause everyone wants it, and nobody wants to do other stuff and they are risking a future where society has no normal people and just a bunch of STEMers but nobody to do normal tasks

Zikten posted...

some countries now are trying to downplay STEM cause everyone wants it, and nobody wants to do other stuff and they are risking a future where society has no normal people and just a bunch of STEMers but nobody to do normal tasks

These "normal" tasks are going to be done by robots
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Bullet_Wing posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Zikten posted...

some countries now are trying to downplay STEM cause everyone wants it, and nobody wants to do other stuff and they are risking a future where society has no normal people and just a bunch of STEMers but nobody to do normal tasks

These "normal" tasks are going to be done by robots

Exactly

Yes, all those robot teachers, marketers, businessmen, historians, artists, etc
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ASithLord7 posted...

Bullet_Wing posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

Zikten posted...

some countries now are trying to downplay STEM cause everyone wants it, and nobody wants to do other stuff and they are risking a future where society has no normal people and just a bunch of STEMers but nobody to do normal tasks

These "normal" tasks are going to be done by robots

Exactly

Yes, all those robot teachers, marketers, businessmen, historians, artists, etc

Where I live there isn't even a job market for teachers, marketers, "businessmen". Out of 10,000 grads there's like 100 jobs. Have fun with that.
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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

ImInTHIS posted...

Bullet_Wing posted...

TC seems bitter

Actually a bachelor's degree in construction management brings in $85k average. Much less math than engineer but just as much money

And you think an engineer has shitty job conditions and work hours compared to construction management? Lmao

Shitty job conditions? You're in an office or trailer most the time, out of the elements LMAO

People vastly underrate trades.
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The real reason stem is not all its cracked up to be is that is a really bad ageism problem and you are going to be laid off when you hit 45-50 so they can replace you with the college grad youve been training. You know like kinda how young STEMs got their jobs now. Unless you get to the other side of the table youve better have great investment or another career lined up
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TIL: the M in STEM doesn't stand for Medicine
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you people are all wrong
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Zikten posted...

some countries now are trying to downplay STEM cause everyone wants it, and nobody wants to do other stuff and they are risking a future where society has no normal people and just a bunch of STEMers but nobody to do normal tasks

Maybe if normal jobs didn't pay like shit, offer the bare minimum of benefits, and had something better than horrid working conditions, people would stay there instead of going to school
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not all lawyers and businessmen reached the top ceiling though .
Doctors are also becoming saturated nowadays in some countries , since medicine is part of STEM .

People overrate stem degrees on this board because many have never been to college. Hell, you have two neets calling you bitter within 10 posts lol.

Bet yeah STEM is overrated, add A for accounting too. Yeah you have job security or a good skill set and can be hired by many businesses or government organizations (prob not right out of college though). This is compared to most liberal arts degrees like communications, history or lol even womens studies. The last wont get you a job or get your resume put on top of the stack.

The reality is everyone in accounting hates their job and makes $12-$15/hr when you consider overtime. You hate your life for 2 years then start doing Uber. Sciences like chemistry or biology get you $12-$13 an hour working overnight in a lab doing grunt work unless you have a masters or doctorates. A PhD you dont get hired because youre too specialized and they dont want to pay you more than $13.

Construction management has you doing construction in a lot of cases if you only have a few years of experience. No one is gonna let you be a contractor, run projects, or even be a foreman if you havent swung a hammer.

Engineering is very hit or miss. Good news is youll make more money than most other majors. It sure wont be the 70k youre expecting first year out of college though lol. Usually its get a masters and you get a decent 40-50k job at an engineering firm or with a bachelors youre an underpaid engineer making $17-$18 an hour.

Engineering, accounting and construction management can lead to jobs with 6 figure salaries but so can an electrician trade, a business degree or a criminal justice degree. The reality is no one is paying you $70k plus first year, regardless of skill set or what you went to school for. Pick a major where you have more doors open than just making coffee or delivering pizza, expect about $14-$16 an hour for your first job and go from there.

Go ahead and argue. If you dont agree or see this happening around you, chances are youre talking out your ass and have never been to college, much less graduated.
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A huge reason STEM was pushed so hard over the past decade or two is because Millenials came up in a shitty economic climate. They graduated college only to be unemployed. That situation has gotten a lot better since 2008.

Students now have a much more optimistic view of the future. STEM helped make sure that you'd get a job instead of being pissed off and occupying wallstreet.
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EdgeMaster posted...

Some good points, but I think it's framed a little too negatively

Not making 100k out the gate doesn't make things in the STEM field overrated. It just means you're subject to the same progression system as everyone else, just with a higher potential floor and ceiling

These degrees are still very lucrative if you're not into labor intensive jobs that will break your body before you can retire
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0EdgeMaster posted...

People overrate stem degrees on this board because many have never been to college. Hell, you have two neets calling you bitter within 10 posts lol.

Bet yeah STEM is overrated, add A for accounting too. Yeah you have job security or a good skill set and can be hired by many businesses or government organizations (prob not right out of college though). This is compared to most liberal arts degrees like communications, history or lol even womens studies. The last wont get you a job or get your resume put on top of the stack.

The reality is everyone in accounting hates their job and makes $12-$15/hr when you consider overtime. You hate your life for 2 years then start doing Uber. Sciences like chemistry or biology get you $12-$13 an hour working overnight in a lab doing grunt work unless you have a masters or doctorates. A PhD you dont get hired because youre too specialized and they dont want to pay you more than $13.

Construction management has you doing construction in a lot of cases if you only have a few years of experience. No one is gonna let you be a contractor, run projects, or even be a foreman if you havent swung a hammer.

Engineering is very hit or miss. Good news is youll make more money than most other majors. It sure wont be the 70k youre expecting first year out of college though lol. Usually its get a masters and you get a decent 40-50k job at an engineering firm or with a bachelors youre an underpaid engineer making $17-$18 an hour.

Engineering, accounting and construction management can lead to jobs with 6 figure salaries but so can an electrician trade, a business degree or a criminal justice degree. The reality is no one is paying you $70k plus first year, regardless of skill set or what you went to school for. Pick a major where you have more doors open than just making coffee or delivering pizza, expect about $14-$16 an hour for your first job and go from there.

Go ahead and argue. If you dont agree or see this happening around you, chances are youre talking out your ass and have never been to college, much less graduated.

I am a CPA, majored in accounting and went big 4 right out of undergrad. All my colleagues I started with straight out of school are making mid 100s 10 years later, obviously the smart and hard working ones. Yea the hours suck and life sucked at first but if you can tough it out it gets better. I might be making 165 k by end of year. Ooh yea and I married my intern who is also a CPA who makes 110 k a year so household income is approaching 300 k.

Marry a smart girl in your industry guys, it really helps.
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josifrees posted...

The real reason stem is not all its cracked up to be is that is a really bad ageism problem and you are going to be laid off when you hit 45-50 so they can replace you with the college grad youve been training. You know like kinda how young STEMs got their jobs now. Unless you get to the other side of the table youve better have great investment or another career lined up

Its cutthroat to develop over the years. But the main thing too is that if you got decades of experience youre gonna get paid a lot per hour so you better be damn good at your job, which should also showcase your experience.
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Who cares about prestige, it's fun.
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Omega Hunter posted...

0EdgeMaster posted...

People overrate stem degrees on this board because many have never been to college. Hell, you have two neets calling you bitter within 10 posts lol.

Bet yeah STEM is overrated, add A for accounting too. Yeah you have job security or a good skill set and can be hired by many businesses or government organizations (prob not right out of college though). This is compared to most liberal arts degrees like communications, history or lol even womens studies. The last wont get you a job or get your resume put on top of the stack.

The reality is everyone in accounting hates their job and makes $12-$15/hr when you consider overtime. You hate your life for 2 years then start doing Uber. Sciences like chemistry or biology get you $12-$13 an hour working overnight in a lab doing grunt work unless you have a masters or doctorates. A PhD you dont get hired because youre too specialized and they dont want to pay you more than $13.

Construction management has you doing construction in a lot of cases if you only have a few years of experience. No one is gonna let you be a contractor, run projects, or even be a foreman if you havent swung a hammer.

Engineering is very hit or miss. Good news is youll make more money than most other majors. It sure wont be the 70k youre expecting first year out of college though lol. Usually its get a masters and you get a decent 40-50k job at an engineering firm or with a bachelors youre an underpaid engineer making $17-$18 an hour.

Engineering, accounting and construction management can lead to jobs with 6 figure salaries but so can an electrician trade, a business degree or a criminal justice degree. The reality is no one is paying you $70k plus first year, regardless of skill set or what you went to school for. Pick a major where you have more doors open than just making coffee or delivering pizza, expect about $14-$16 an hour for your first job and go from there.

Go ahead and argue. If you dont agree or see this happening around you, chances are youre talking out your ass and have never been to college, much less graduated.

I am a CPA, majored in accounting and went big 4 right out of undergrad. All my colleagues I started with straight out of school are making mid 100s 10 years later, obviously the smart and hard working ones. Yea the hours suck and life sucked at first but if you can tough it out it gets better. I might be making 165 k by end of year. Ooh yea and I married my intern who is also a CPA who makes 110 k a year so household income is approaching 300 k.

Marry a smart girl in your industry guys, it really helps.

god damn 110k ? That was bigger than most engineering
i thought engineering is the one with high pay

MasterOfSex posted...

Omega Hunter posted...

0EdgeMaster posted...

People overrate stem degrees on this board because many have never been to college. Hell, you have two neets calling you bitter within 10 posts lol.

Bet yeah STEM is overrated, add A for accounting too. Yeah you have job security or a good skill set and can be hired by many businesses or government organizations (prob not right out of college though). This is compared to most liberal arts degrees like communications, history or lol even womens studies. The last wont get you a job or get your resume put on top of the stack.

The reality is everyone in accounting hates their job and makes $12-$15/hr when you consider overtime. You hate your life for 2 years then start doing Uber. Sciences like chemistry or biology get you $12-$13 an hour working overnight in a lab doing grunt work unless you have a masters or doctorates. A PhD you dont get hired because youre too specialized and they dont want to pay you more than $13.

Construction management has you doing construction in a lot of cases if you only have a few years of experience. No one is gonna let you be a contractor, run projects, or even be a foreman if you havent swung a hammer.

Engineering is very hit or miss. Good news is youll make more money than most other majors. It sure wont be the 70k youre expecting first year out of college though lol. Usually its get a masters and you get a decent 40-50k job at an engineering firm or with a bachelors youre an underpaid engineer making $17-$18 an hour.

Engineering, accounting and construction management can lead to jobs with 6 figure salaries but so can an electrician trade, a business degree or a criminal justice degree. The reality is no one is paying you $70k plus first year, regardless of skill set or what you went to school for. Pick a major where you have more doors open than just making coffee or delivering pizza, expect about $14-$16 an hour for your first job and go from there.

Go ahead and argue. If you dont agree or see this happening around you, chances are youre talking out your ass and have never been to college, much less graduated.

I am a CPA, majored in accounting and went big 4 right out of undergrad. All my colleagues I started with straight out of school are making mid 100s 10 years later, obviously the smart and hard working ones. Yea the hours suck and life sucked at first but if you can tough it out it gets better. I might be making 165 k by end of year. Ooh yea and I married my intern who is also a CPA who makes 110 k a year so household income is approaching 300 k.

Marry a smart girl in your industry guys, it really helps.

god damn 110k ? That was bigger than most engineering
i thought engineering is the one with high pay

Well she was paid 40 k as an intern...its been 7 years.
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I am a nuclear engineer and my wife is a fluids engineer/analyst. We both work for a government laboratory, and I can tell you that we both wouldn't have it any other way.

I have a dual bachelor's degree in mechanical and nuclear engineering, and fresh out of school I was offered $68k (several years ago). My wife has a master's degree in mechanical with a focus in fluid mechanics, and her offer was $85k (a couple years ago). We get a generous 401k (no pension though; I thought all government employees get pensions!), full health/dental benefits (no premiums to pay), and a generous amount of vacation hours (for US standards), with great home-business life balance (since we can't literally bring our work out of the lab lol).

I know we're very fortunate, but STEM worked out for us. I feel sort of bad for non-STEM folks in the lab, because they are sort of invisible... Whenever government officials or military officers visit the lab, they praise all the engineering and scientific achievements; nothing else.

*EDIT*: I do agree with some posters here, that engineering will (generally) not make you filthy rich. For example, at the highest pay grade for an engineer at my job (with like 25+ years of experience), pay tops out at ~$135k this fiscal year. So if we were both at that level now, we're looking at a household income of ~$270k, which is a comfortable life, but not super rich life.
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MarqueeSeries posted...

EdgeMaster posted...

Some good points, but I think it's framed a little too negatively

Not making 100k out the gate doesn't make things in the STEM field overrated. It just means you're subject to the same progression system as everyone else, just with a higher potential floor and ceiling

These degrees are still very lucrative if you're not into labor intensive jobs that will break your body before you can retire

Yeah I framed it a bit negatively but didnt wanna give anyone the candy land version when reality things are not sunshine and rainbows and you arent going to be making $70-$120k off the bat because you majored in engineering or computer science. Reality is gonna kick your teeth in come August after graduating.

Good post though, I mean overrated as it isnt the end all be all best field to get a degree in. Its definitely better than communications, or womens studies (that one always makes me lol, cant imagine youd learn anything useful and its just getting your head filled with a bunch of shit for ~10k a year).

STEM is a good gamble on making a decent living but isnt the end all be all. Theres plenty of job field that CAN pay well, but thinking youre going to make 70k off the bat is laughable. Try for 30-35k.

Post 26 is also very good, but key point to take away here: The guy is an accountant, 10 years later him and his friends that were accountants were doing quite alright.

A basic run down and easy reference list of jobs and how they turn out:

Engineering: $15hr - $150k annually

Nursing: $12hr - 80k maybe? Idk pay ceiling but you can get to $18-$20/hr within a year. Source: my gf.

Electrician: $14/hr - $150k

Personal/athletic trainer: 20k annually to ~100k annually. People cancel all the fucking time, but its usually a $40-$50k job especially if you have some trophies, look good, and coach some clients online. Im sure an athletic trainer for the NFL, NBA or a college sport make closer to 100k but you need more school for that and theres only 1 spot open per team so not enough cake to go around...

Insurance agent: $11hr - $150k

Police officer: 35k - 80k, depends on city and department. Highway patrol makes shit. Bigger well funded cities you can make 100k after 10 years.

Federal Agent: 40k to 150k annually. This includes Border Patrol, DEA, FBI and more.

Car sales: 50k-100k. But youre gonna work at carmax for $150 commission on each car sold for a while first. And the 100k is at a Lexus,Mercedes, Infiniti, etc dealership.

Lawyer: $14hr to $200k? Lots of school and you start out being a public defender eating ramen or you sort papers in the basement of a law firm and go on coffee adventures.

Construction foreman: $13-$25/hr. Contractors can make $150k.

Doctor: lol who cares, youre 60 by the time you paid off school and make more than 40k, which is prob part of why you wanted to be a doctor.

Something to keep in mind is its all about who you know, you could do the same job but who you do it for will determine if you love it or hate it and many professions you probably have to take more school. College degree or not.

Biomedical sciences degree? Yeah you need your phlebotomy certification to stick a needle in someone.

Police? Doesnt matter if you got a criminal justice degree, need to go to police academy. And its $3k w/o promise of a job. Better idea is get hired (hope you know someone....) and have the department pay for it.

Personal trainer? Gonna need a certification to work in a gym and thats ~$300.

Insurance agent? Needed: certifications, about $400-500 all said and done.

Many jobs can be lucrative, just make sure its with a good company and realize that $60-$70k the week after graduation is a pipe dream.
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MarqueeSeries posted...

EdgeMaster posted...

Some good points, but I think it's framed a little too negatively

Not making 100k out the gate doesn't make things in the STEM field overrated. It just means you're subject to the same progression system as everyone else, just with a higher potential floor and ceiling

These degrees are still very lucrative if you're not into labor intensive jobs that will break your body before you can retire

This guy gets it.
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ImInTHIS posted...

But that's it. In no way is it really prestigious. Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, and even business majors are much more prestigious.

Those are STEM degrees.

STEM = Science, tech, Engineering, Medical

Milkman5 posted...

ImInTHIS posted...

But that's it. In no way is it really prestigious. Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, and even business majors are much more prestigious.

Those are STEM degrees.

STEM = Science, tech, Engineering, Medical

*facepalm*
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A lot of STEM degrees bring in 150k

Dentists, Doctors, Software Developers, you name it.

Sure, you can make more if you start your own business, but you can start a business even with a stem degree.

You can start your own Dental practice, your own software company etc

it's hardly "overrated"

I mean you have to work hard, but you get paid a lot.

Plenty of people are willing to work hard to get paid a lot

Omega Hunter posted...

MasterOfSex posted...

Omega Hunter posted...

0EdgeMaster posted...

People overrate stem degrees on this board because many have never been to college. Hell, you have two neets calling you bitter within 10 posts lol.

Bet yeah STEM is overrated, add A for accounting too. Yeah you have job security or a good skill set and can be hired by many businesses or government organizations (prob not right out of college though). This is compared to most liberal arts degrees like communications, history or lol even womens studies. The last wont get you a job or get your resume put on top of the stack.

The reality is everyone in accounting hates their job and makes $12-$15/hr when you consider overtime. You hate your life for 2 years then start doing Uber. Sciences like chemistry or biology get you $12-$13 an hour working overnight in a lab doing grunt work unless you have a masters or doctorates. A PhD you dont get hired because youre too specialized and they dont want to pay you more than $13.

Construction management has you doing construction in a lot of cases if you only have a few years of experience. No one is gonna let you be a contractor, run projects, or even be a foreman if you havent swung a hammer.

Engineering is very hit or miss. Good news is youll make more money than most other majors. It sure wont be the 70k youre expecting first year out of college though lol. Usually its get a masters and you get a decent 40-50k job at an engineering firm or with a bachelors youre an underpaid engineer making $17-$18 an hour.

Engineering, accounting and construction management can lead to jobs with 6 figure salaries but so can an electrician trade, a business degree or a criminal justice degree. The reality is no one is paying you $70k plus first year, regardless of skill set or what you went to school for. Pick a major where you have more doors open than just making coffee or delivering pizza, expect about $14-$16 an hour for your first job and go from there.

Go ahead and argue. If you dont agree or see this happening around you, chances are youre talking out your ass and have never been to college, much less graduated.

I am a CPA, majored in accounting and went big 4 right out of undergrad. All my colleagues I started with straight out of school are making mid 100s 10 years later, obviously the smart and hard working ones. Yea the hours suck and life sucked at first but if you can tough it out it gets better. I might be making 165 k by end of year. Ooh yea and I married my intern who is also a CPA who makes 110 k a year so household income is approaching 300 k.

Marry a smart girl in your industry guys, it really helps.

god damn 110k ? That was bigger than most engineering
i thought engineering is the one with high pay

Well she was paid 40 k as an intern...its been 7 years.

The client that my engineering company is currently contracted to has a starting salary of $65k-$69k, depending if you have an EIT or not, for project engineers. Our interns would make $40k a year if they hypothetically work full time but most work around 15-20 hours due to school.

Also, CMs get paid well but theyre traveling to where the job site is at. Some job sites are close by and some might be a 3 or 4 hour drive away. You also work more than 40 hours. Realistically, its more 60 and since were salary, overtime is straight time.

We have two dudes right now making $90k and both have 7 years experience. My previous boss is making $100k but shes extremely good at managing complex assignments. Shes been promoted twice in two years which is insane. She has around 6 years experience and has a civil PE.
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How about the criterion: do they like their jobs?
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EdgeMaster posted...

If you dont agree or see this happening around you, chances are youre talking out your ass and have never been to college, much less graduated.

ITP: everywhere is America
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EdgeMaster posted...

Lawyer: $14hr to $200k? Lots of school and you start out being a public defender eating ramen or you sort papers in the basement of a law firm and go on coffee adventures

That's not really what being a young lawyer is like if you go to a good school

DragonGirlYuki posted...

Well it is much better than being a liberal arts grad working as a BArista (capitalisation intended) for close to minimim wage.

Why do people default to bitching about liberal arts when someone criticizes STEM? Theres other majors out there.
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STEM

Science
Technology
Engineering
Mathematics

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science,_technology,_engineering,_and_mathematics

And in regards to the topic, the field is becoming oversaturated, making it harder for young blood to get jobs. Retirees are also coming out of retirement, making it even harder for young blood.

Trades are good jobs to get into; especially now, but soon they will also become oversaturated.
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Milkman5 posted...

A lot of STEM degrees bring in 150k

Dentists, Doctors, Software Developers, you name it.

Sure, you can make more if you start your own business, but you can start a business even with a stem degree.

You can start your own Dental practice, your own software company etc

it's hardly "overrated"

I mean you have to work hard, but you get paid a lot.

Plenty of people are willing to work hard to get paid a lot

Did you read anything in this topic? I like how you said bring in $150k instead of can bring in.

Yeah youre right, 10-20 years down the road. Thats exactly why STEM degrees are overrated... because theres other degrees and trades that can make you $150k after 10-20 years.

Hell an engineer in this thread who was an outlier and started at 68k with a masters says his company caps engineers with 25+ years of experience at $135k annually.

So your math is off and Id hazard a guess youre just talking out of your ass and have no actual experience in what you post about.

Edit: actually yeah, youre definitely talking out your ass. Every time I see a post like this on CE I cant help but think Im talking to someone whos never held more than $500 in their hand because they cashed their entire min wage paycheck and wanted to feel cool. Its people like you who throw out big numbers like $150k who dont realize how much 50k-60k can buy when you dont have kids and you just have rent, car payment, and a cell phone bill and the rest is savings and fuck around money.
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People overrate degrees, with STEM degrees receiving the majority of hype for their practicality.

Whenever I see people talking as if all (or even most) engineers step out of college making $100k+, it instantly shows me who has real life experience. I mean does it happen? Yes, but its not the norm at all. Pretty much all statistical data (and common sense) shows that those are outliers.
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brandunh11 posted...

Whenever I see people talking as if all (or even most) engineers step out of college making $100k+, it instantly shows me who has real life experience. I mean does it happen? Yes, but its not the norm at all. Pretty much all statistical data (and common sense) shows that those are outliers.

Rockclapping.gif

People like you give me faith in humanity. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.
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Looking down on people who didn't go to school for engineering was pretty popular on CE back in like 2011/2012
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Electrical engineer with Masters and I started with 76k out of college. 90k 3 years later. I've noticed others in my field start around 60-70k. I'm in Colorado

I feel like a lot of the non software engineering majors can start of low and the ceiling isn't as high though.
It always seems like the software guys getting those 100k+ stating salary and stuff. But obviously there are software guys who start out really low as well.
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TheoryzC posted...

Looking down on people who didn't go to school for engineering was pretty popular on CE back in like 2011/2012

Because that's when large proportion of CE were freshman or sophomore engineering majors lol.
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emblem boy posted...

Electrical engineer with Masters and I started with 76k out of college. 90k 3 years later. I've noticed others in my field start around 60-70k. I'm in Colorado

I feel like a lot of the non software engineering majors can start of low and the ceiling isn't as high though.
It always seems like the software guys getting those 100k+ stating salary and stuff. But obviously there are software guys who start out really low as well.

Youre an outlier. Ive got a few friends who did engineering (mostly chemical. A few mechanical or civil) and some went back to school for their masters the others are underpaid.

The one friend whos doing the best makes about $80k a year and got his degree in psychology. He is a very smart person and basically my encyclopedia on human nature and behaviors lol. He does sales for a software development/cloud storage company.

Engineering and computer science is one of those field where you can make $60-$80k annually but its rare. For every other field that you can make $100k and over, you start around $30-$40k. Then again theres always exceptions to the rules and some oddballs that make $80k when they studied a subject that wont let you nail a shingle without going to grad school first.

Funny enough, the 3 people (friends dads) I know and have met who make $250k a year and live in a mansion, one works in sales for a medical equipment company and is super boss of the west coast, one is a high level exec for at&t, while the other was a cpa and worked on Wall Street. Ironic because those arent STEM degrees.
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