Current Events > tbh only STEM degrees should be free

(+) Yeah! (+)

if college was to be made to be covered by tax payers.

I don't see why the more fluff hobby type degrees should be paid for by tax payers

i want rich people to pay for my $200k art history degree
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Stem degrees pretty much are free to those qualified to pursue them 95% of the time.

College shouldn't be paid for by the government. The only reason college and healthcare are as expensive as they are is because of government fuckery
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but im a sjw and want my gender/woman studies degree to be paid for by the White Man because of oppression!!!
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youre gonna see declines in entertainment and media if you do that tbqh. people who study arts and performance are the ones behind what you see
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Solid Snake07 posted...

College shouldn't be paid for by the government.

i agree with this to a degree, but i don't think the way the US turns education into a business necessarily works well either

byron posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

The only reason college and healthcare are as expensive as they are is because of government fuckery

I don't understand economics

We know buddy, its okay
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Kaiganeer posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

College shouldn't be paid for by the government.

i agree with this to a degree, but i don't think the way the US turns education into a business necessarily works well either

The reason why tuition is so high is because any yokel with a pulse can take out tens of thousands of dollars to spend 4 years without a job pursuing a useless piece of paper. Which means colleges can get away with murder for how much they charge in tuition.
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it should be free
everything should be free
workers of the world, unite
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byron posted...

Because you're talking some bullshit and not backing it up!

I'm actually just posting some common knowledge. you should probably do some research before you look silly
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byron posted...

I'm scared to get too specific so I'm just gonna vaguely ask for evidence. I'm not sure what I want evidence of exactly but I'm hoping he won't notice that.

hey, we all get nervous out of our element. Don't beat yourself up about it
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Okay, I've already explained tuition. Do you seriously want me to break down to you how health insurance works and why it's a giant cluster fuck?

Simply put, health insurance shouldn't cover routine doctor visits and shit like that, it should be for very serious instances like a serious accident or contracting cancer. The reason health insurance is so expensive is because they do have to cover all that. Which is like expecting your auto insurance provider to cover putting gas in your car or changing your oil or paying for new tires. If that were the case, guess what? Auto insurance is about the get a whole hell of a lot more expensive, just like your health insurance is. Tires are about the get a lot more expensive too, cause fuck it, the insurance company is paying for it.

Then you have the inability to refuse insurance to someone with a pre-existing condition...........why in the hell would you buy an insurance policy if you can just wait until your sick to?! And now the GOP has taken this colossally stupid idea and removed the mandate(which was bullshit anyway, the penalty was cheaper than actually paying for insurance).

Routine doctor visits are a service, just like routine work on your car. Insurance and the government should have no involvement in that, they just make it worse and more expensive.
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yeah bro

paying for some thing with a made up gender to get an art degree for the starbucks career is jokes tier.
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AlephZero posted...

i want rich people to pay for my $200k art history degree

Do those really exist?
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The only people who should decide what is free are the people who have contributed for over ten years otherwise you just sound like spoiled children. Pay enough taxes then tell me you want to pay more.

As someone with a PhD in a STEM field, making STEM degrees the only free ones is a really easy way to dilute the quality of people with STEM degrees.

Like...engineering degrees have already been pretty devalued. Do you want to do the same thing to STM?

Edit: Besides, I enjoy the output of the labor of other degrees. So if you're solely interested in STEM development as a nation, the answer isn't getting more STEM people but rather to keep the ones you have happy.
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byron posted...

Excellent argument for setting up a national Healthcare system.

Okay responding to that novel:

How do other countries cover all of those things and spend significantly less than us?

Healthcare isn't a right, it's a service. If you have the viewpoint that it's a right then that means you're in favor of the government forcing doctors to provide their service at whatever mandated compensation. you've essentially removed the incentive for someone to become a physician or a surgeon. Which leads to fewer physicians and surgeons. Which means healthcare is less plentiful, which is why in countries that have systems like these you can get stuck on a very long wait list for a surgery you might be in dire need of. Which is why you have healthcare black markets in those countries.

You want health care to be cheaper? incentivize people to become doctors, and allow free market competition.
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Solid Snake07 posted...

If you have the viewpoint that it's a right then that means you're in favor of the government forcing doctors to provide their service at whatever mandated compensation. you've essentially removed the incentive for someone to become a physician or a surgeon.

Do you think the primary driver of healthcare costs is doctor salary?
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Anteaterking posted...

Solid Snake07 posted...

If you have the viewpoint that it's a right then that means you're in favor of the government forcing doctors to provide their service at whatever mandated compensation. you've essentially removed the incentive for someone to become a physician or a surgeon.

Do you think the primary driver of healthcare costs is doctor salary?

No, that's not what I said. I've already said the major driver in the US is this unnatural marriage of insurance and government involvement.
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byron posted...

Like firefighters, police, teachers..

Are you serious? I could be two of those within a year if I wanted to be. Most people don't give 10 years of their life to med school and residency because they're pure-hearted martyrs, they do it because it's a job with a high market value. And once again, health care isn't a public service, and it shouldn't be.

byron posted...

Do you think people would rather be on a waiting list or not be able to get treatment at all?

You can get treatment. Go to the ER. They will treat you. Granted you're not going to get the same level of medical treatment, much like a universal system.

byron posted...

You didn't respond to my point though. Those countries spend less than we do but cover more. America has waiting lists.

They don't get more. there's a reason why people fly here from Canada to get surgery. Universal is good for basic needs, not upper echelon treatment. And once again, if you have no money, go to the ER, they'll give you an xray. The ER basically is universal healthcare for people with no money in this country. I'll grant you that healthcare in the US as it stands is overall worse than some of those countries, but that's not because of the market. It's because of the government and the insurance providers
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But lets go back to the beginning of this topic where we started. You can't seriously tell me you don't think the US government is largely to blame for crazy healthcare costs in this country right?
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byron posted...

How specifically?

I already explained it to you. If you don't like my explanation then go do you're own research and tell me how it's wrong.
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Solid Snake07 posted...

The only reason college and healthcare are as expensive as they are is because of government fuckery

Nonsense, how could offering grants to people for college and assistance on healthcare possibly make a textbook company or anyone else see dollar signs!
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Have you guys tried being poor and a minority? I'm not paying for shit.
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agree, liberal arts bullshit is widely useless

STEM actually contributes to the advancement of humanity

This whole conversation is hijacked by personal valuations. It's not like many getting a science degree are going into science or many getting a math degree are going into math. Comparisons across major with employment statistics is so fatally flawed that it's a useless argument.

Really, people want the degrees funded that they personally see use for. Which makes this conversation useless.
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I'll take it a step further and say that the only free degrees should be based on supply and demand, and would extend to blue collar and trade positions. STEM is in demand now, but it might not be forever, and electricians/plumbers/etc are ALSO in high demand.

If we're going to give away higher education, it should be based on the best ROI for society, which means targeting the jobs that we most need in the moment. Yes, that means that if there's a shortage of history teachers it might go to a liberal arts degree, but it would also force every degree to have to show their math in terms of what benefit they bring to society by having more of them.
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this is actually good , more people would be in stem field.

go for a month without watching TV or movies, reading anything, listening to any music (including music in a public space or bar), then tell me honestly that the arts aren't valuable
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averagejoel posted...

go for a month without watching TV or movies, reading anything, listening to any music (including music in a public space or bar), then tell me honestly that the arts aren't valuable

Let's not forget playing video games.
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Godnorgosh posted...

Making only STEM degrees free in a capitalist economy is a fantastic way to dramatically oversaturate STEM fields and make STEM workers much less valuable and much more replaceable.

Isn't that trend already occurring?
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"we can have free education for 13 years, but you should have to sell your soul if you want to go any further than that"
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A_Good_Boy posted...

Godnorgosh posted...

Making only STEM degrees free in a capitalist economy is a fantastic way to dramatically oversaturate STEM fields and make STEM workers much less valuable and much more replaceable.

Isn't that trend already occurring?

Yes, everyone goes for them and now all these STEM grads are crying they can't get work.
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I've seen some colleges start offering salary sharing loans where when you graduate the school gets a percentage of your earnings for x number of years and if you're unemployed they collect nothing. Personally, I'm in favor of the idea because it holds the school partially responsible for ensuring that the student gets a good paying job from the degree they obtained via the college.
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