Current Events > I'm a Brit. Asks me anything. Why do people shit on the UK being distopian?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is it some kind of meme that got out of hand? I live in the UK and its funny because 99% of what US people think about the UK is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

Ask me anything.
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Oi you got a loicense for this topic?

Is the mayor of London really a terrorist?

Lol yeah the right like to picture the UK and much of Europe as horrible places to live as part of their anti immagrantion and anti Muslim retoric. Don't worry us in the center and the left know it's not that bad.
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Crepes posted...

Is it some kind of meme that got out of hand? I live in the UK and its funny because 99% of what US people think about the UK is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

Ask me anything.

Its people laughing at the TV licence and not getting how useful a media company that are legally required to be impartial is
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Y are the rivers so polluted???
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I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...
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Whatever happened with that giant child sex abuse "grooming circle" thing?

Is that finished and dealt with, or is it still ongoing?
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If it's about that other topic, I think people are just saying that the UK looks more Orwellian than the US. Which is arguably true. And arguably false.
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scar the 1 posted...

Which is arguably true. And arguably false.

I don't get it, how can it be true and false at the same time?
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I've lived in the UK.

It is the most distopian first world country in the world.

Leader in the world in knife crime.
Has over 35% of the world's security cameras. If you are on a British Street (inside a town or city) you are more likely to being recorded than not being recorded.
Literal Monarchy with veto powers.
Literal House of Lords that can overrule democratic government decisions and does so regularly.
Universial Healthcare that is being sold off and privatized to pocket the rich while the poor suffer.
Strong gun control.
Strong language control and literal thought crime where you can be arrested or fined for the wrong opinions or statements.
Literal race/sex/minority quotas in government divisions.
Can be arrested and held for over 30 days without cause, charge or ability to contact anyone outside of your confinment.
Strict (and increasing) internet censorship and controls.
Giving up on the accepted European Rights to make up their own Rights which are the same except don't value privacy

Yeah there's some freedoms. It's not like Germany where you can be arrested for holocaust denial. And you can go into a store and buy a cheese sandwich or a ham one. But those don't add up to the rest of the western world as a whole.

Sure you might be happy and enjoy your life, a lot of people in the UK do. I did too. But don't mistake your own happy experience as evidence of the entire nation being pristine. That's literally part of a distopian society. That's like the Inner-party in 1984 musing on blowing up the plebs
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ROBANN_88 posted...

scar the 1 posted...

Which is arguably true. And arguably false.

I don't get it, how can it be true and false at the same time?

It means "IT's true but I want to bash America so I will pretend it's false."

He hasn't learned the advanced lesson that most people master when they are 7, which is you can criticize something and still accept it's not 100% awful or 100% perfect
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ROBANN_88 posted...

Whatever happened with that giant child sex abuse "grooming circle" thing?

Is that finished and dealt with, or is it still ongoing?

It's still going

Child Sex Trafficking in the UK has been going on for the best part of a century.

But it's not an issue that effects the average joe.
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0TiamaT0 posted...

I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...

I don't think this is as wide spread as the media in the US claim it is.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I've lived in the UK.

It is the most distopian first world country in the world.

Leader in the world in knife crime.
Has over 35% of the world's security cameras. If you are on a British Street (inside a town or city) you are more likely to being recorded than not being recorded.
Literal Monarchy with veto powers.
Literal House of Lords that can overrule democratic government decisions and does so regularly.
Universial Healthcare that is being sold off and privatized to pocket the rich while the poor suffer.
Strong gun control.
Strong language control and literal thought crime where you can arrested or fined for the wrong opinions or statements.
Can be arrested and held for over 30 days without cause, charge or ability to contact anyone outside of your confinment.
Strict (and increasing) internet censorship and controls.
Giving up on the accepted European Rights to make up their own Rights which are the same except don't value privacy

Yeah there's some freedoms. It's not like Germany where you can be arrested for holocaust denial. And you can go into a store and buy a cheese sandwich or a ham one. But those don't add up to the rest of the western world as a whole.

Sure you might be happy and enjoy your life, a lot of people in the UK do. I did too. But don't mistake your own happy experience as evidence of the entire nation being pristine. That's literally part of a distopian society. That's like the Inner-party in 1984 musing on blowing up the plebs

I'm happy to debate you on each and every one of those points once you provide a respectable source for each one.

EDIT: Where did you live when you came to the UK and how long were you here for?
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Crepes posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...

I don't think this is as wide spread as the media in the US claim it is.

It doesnt have to be. The fact that it happens at all is enough.

Your country has bigger problems than worrying about the guy that doesnt like islam or the teenage girl posting rap lyrics.
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Crepes posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...

I don't think this is as wide spread as the media in the US claim it is.

I don't think the issue is whether or not is it widespread, the issue is that it happens at all and most people are okay with it.

Hence distopian
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0TiamaT0 posted...

Crepes posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...

I don't think this is as wide spread as the media in the US claim it is.

It doesnt have to be. The fact that it happens at all is enough.

Your country has bigger problems than worrying about the guy that doesnt like islam or the teenage girl posting rap lyrics.

I don't feel like posting hate speech on the internet or inciting terrorism is something that should be tolerated.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah there's some freedoms. It's not like Germany where you can be arrested for holocaust denial. And you can go into a store and buy a cheese sandwich or a ham one.

What's that thing about sanwiches?
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Crepes posted...

Is it some kind of meme that got out of hand? I live in the UK and its funny because 99% of what US people think about the UK is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

Ask me anything.

Everything here is a meme. 99% of what US people think about the US is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.
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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Crepes posted...

Is it some kind of meme that got out of hand? I live in the UK and its funny because 99% of what US people think about the UK is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

Ask me anything.

Everything here is a meme. 99% of what US people think about the US is either made up or massively blown out of proportion.

So mostly just posted to get a reaction? Do the people actually believe what they are saying or is it 100% people on the wind up.
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Crepes posted...

I'm happy to debate you on each and every one of those points once you provide a respectable source for each one.

Oh come on, you live in the UK and see the same news I do for the past 20 years. I'm not going to find and post sources for each one. That's a lazy evasion and you know it.

I mean christ if you do a google search right now you'll see a top story about there being 1,296 stabbings in London in the first 4 months of 2018.

And I don't even know WTF you mean when you say you want a "source" on the House of Lords... so here's a wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords

EDIT: Where did you live when you came to the UK and how long were you here for?

I travel a lot so I've been to a few places London, Bedford, Plymouth, Leeds, High Wycombe.

Longest was when I lived in Uxbridge for a couple of years and worked at the Daily Telegraph routinely seeing these stories you claim don't exist.
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ROBANN_88 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah there's some freedoms. It's not like Germany where you can be arrested for holocaust denial. And you can go into a store and buy a cheese sandwich or a ham one.

What's that thing about sanwiches?

You can go into a store in the UK and buy whatever sandwich you like.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

It means "IT's true but I want to bash America so I will pretend it's false."

No, it means that there are good arguments on both sides.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Crepes posted...

I'm happy to debate you on each and every one of those points once you provide a respectable source for each one.

Oh come on, you live in the UK and see the same news I do for the past 20 years. I'm not going to find and post sources for each one. That's a lazy evasion and you know it.

I mean christ if you do a google search right now you'll see a top story about there being 1,296 stabbings in London in the first 4 months of 2018.

And I don't even know WTF you mean when you say you want a "source" on the House of Lords... so here's a wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords

EDIT: Where did you live when you came to the UK and how long were you here for?

I travel a lot so I've been to a few places London, Bedford, Plymouth, Leeds, High Wycombe.

Longest was when I lived in Uxbridge for a couple of years and worked at the Daily Telegraph routinely seeing these stories you claim don't exist.

I'm just asking for you to back up your claims. That's all. Sorry if you won't or can't do so. I refuse to get into a debate with you based on anything other than facts so you can't move the goal posts like you usually do. If you don't want an adult debate that's fine with me. I'll be here all day if you change your mind.

EDIT: The house of lords are meant to be a checks and balances type of thing. Generally they will either pass a law or return it with some amendments for the house of commons to sign off. I can't think of many occasions where the house of lords have outright refused a law but I'm sure there are probably some.

Mechanisms are in place so that if the government want to pass something they can force it through. This is to stop the same bill ping ponging between the house of commons and the house of lords indefinitely. If the same bill is passed three times in the house of commons then it bypasses the house of lords on the third attempt so like I said they can't indefinitely block something.
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Crepes posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...

I don't think this is as wide spread as the media in the US claim it is.

You literally have people in the UK arrested, tried, and convicted for making edgy joke videos on YouTube and posting excerpts of rap lyrics on social media.

You also have child sex traffic rings run by Pakistani men and your law enforcement and government seem content to mostly ignore until it becomes a public scandal. How about that Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford, Derby, Telford, etc? Just saying, you Brits seem to have an awful lot of Muslim sex trafficking against your little british girls going on in your backyard.

That's just how it looks to those of us outside the isles. And it's a bad look.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

ROBANN_88 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah there's some freedoms. It's not like Germany where you can be arrested for holocaust denial. And you can go into a store and buy a cheese sandwich or a ham one.

What's that thing about sanwiches?

You can go into a store in the UK and buy whatever sandwich you like.

Is that odd?
Based on the previous sentence i got the impression you were saying that you can't do that in Germany
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scar the 1 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

It means "IT's true but I want to bash America so I will pretend it's false."

No, it means that there are good arguments on both sides.

"Fine people, both sides"

Crepes posted...

so you can't move the goal posts like you usually do.

Already preparing damage control.

Says it all right there.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

"Fine people, both sides"

lmao
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ROBANN_88 posted...

Is that odd?
Based on the previous sentence i got the impression you were saying that you can't do that in Germany

Try eating a ham sandwich in Saudi Arabia

Or a beef burger in India.
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Part of the perception is that the government is too feminist. I'll borrow one of my posts from another topic, and you can tell me if I'm missing something.

So if I understand the below correctly, a woman in the UK can lie about whether or not a child actually belongs to a particular man in order to get his wallet on the hook. The man can't get a paternity test without the woman's consent. Am I missing something? Because that sounds pretty fucked up and gynocentric to me.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1394653/Move-to-outlaw-secret-DNA-testing-by-fathers.html

Fathers who conduct secret paternity tests on their children will face prosecution under new laws to be proposed by a Government watchdog.

The Human Genetics Commission will recommend in a report to ministers that the theft of a person's DNA, including the clandestine removal of a child's hair or saliva, should become a criminal offence.

The proposal has come out of fears that increasing numbers of fathers are exploiting the growth of internet DNA testing services to undertake paternity checks without the consent of the child or its mother, with potentially traumatic consequences for all involved.

The law would also prevent private detectives, journalists, employers and others from gaining access to genetic information without the individual's consent, or using DNA left behind by an individual to check for diseases, genetic conditions or unknown relatives.

Earlier this week, the television producer Steve Bing - who Elizabeth Hurley, the actress, says is the father of her baby son Damian - was named in court papers as the father of a young girl caught up in the world's most expensive child support case.

And I don't think this gynocentric mindset is unrelated to people getting in legal trouble for criticizing Islam when you consider Intersectional Feminism.
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Add "lived and traveled across most of England" to the list of stuff Unfair has supposedly done to support his arguments.
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pegusus123456 posted...

Add "lived and traveled across most of England" to the list of stuff Unfair has supposedly done to support his arguments.

And you'd be lying as usual.

I never said I traveled across most of England. I also directly listed most of the places I lived in.

But whatever fuels your obsession with me, I guess it's the only way you can masturbate now.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Already preparing damage control.

Says it all right there.

Not at all. I just want to know what we're arguing before I get involved.

I've responded to your house of lords criticism in the post about. Feel free to come back to me and counter my points.
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tennisdude818 posted...

Part of the perception is that the government is too feminist. I'll borrow one of my posts from another topic, and you can tell me if I'm missing something.

So if I understand the below correctly, a woman in the UK can lie about whether or not a child actually belongs to a particular man in order to get his wallet on the hook. The man can't get a paternity test without the woman's consent. Am I missing something? Because that sounds pretty fucked up and gynocentric to me.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1394653/Move-to-outlaw-secret-DNA-testing-by-fathers.html

Fathers who conduct secret paternity tests on their children will face prosecution under new laws to be proposed by a Government watchdog.

The Human Genetics Commission will recommend in a report to ministers that the theft of a person's DNA, including the clandestine removal of a child's hair or saliva, should become a criminal offence.

The proposal has come out of fears that increasing numbers of fathers are exploiting the growth of internet DNA testing services to undertake paternity checks without the consent of the child or its mother, with potentially traumatic consequences for all involved.

The law would also prevent private detectives, journalists, employers and others from gaining access to genetic information without the individual's consent, or using DNA left behind by an individual to check for diseases, genetic conditions or unknown relatives.

Earlier this week, the television producer Steve Bing - who Elizabeth Hurley, the actress, says is the father of her baby son Damian - was named in court papers as the father of a young girl caught up in the world's most expensive child support case.

And I don't think this gynocentric mindset is unrelated to people getting in legal trouble for criticizing Islam when you consider Intersectional Feminism.

Geez. It's like they're deliberately trying to ruin any possible defense the man might have in that case. Woman can accuse him of being the father to get child support, she has to consent to the DNA test that could disprove the claim, and he can be legally punished if he gets the test done without her permission. Dude is fucked.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

ROBANN_88 posted...

Is that odd?
Based on the previous sentence i got the impression you were saying that you can't do that in Germany

Try eating a ham sandwich in Saudi Arabia

Or a beef burger in India.

Or dog and cat in the US!
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Crepes posted...

Not at all. I just want to know what we're arguing

UnfairRepresent posted...

It is the most distopian first world country in the world.

Leader in the world in knife crime.
Has over 35% of the world's security cameras. If you are on a British Street (inside a town or city) you are more likely to being recorded than not being recorded.
Literal Monarchy with veto powers.
Literal House of Lords that can overrule democratic government decisions and does so regularly.
Universial Healthcare that is being sold off and privatized to pocket the rich while the poor suffer.
Strong gun control.
Strong language control and literal thought crime where you can be arrested or fined for the wrong opinions or statements.
Literal race/sex/minority quotas in government divisions.
Can be arrested and held for over 30 days without cause, charge or ability to contact anyone outside of your confinment.
Strict (and increasing) internet censorship and controls.
Giving up on the accepted European Rights to make up their own Rights which are the same except don't value privacy

Yeah there's some freedoms. It's not like Germany where you can be arrested for holocaust denial. And you can go into a store and buy a cheese sandwich or a ham one. But those don't add up to the rest of the western world as a whole.

Sure you might be happy and enjoy your life, a lot of people in the UK do. I did too. But don't mistake your own happy experience as evidence of the entire nation being pristine. That's literally part of a distopian society. That's like the Inner-party in 1984 musing on blowing up the plebs

Crepes posted...

EDIT: The house of lords are meant to be a checks and balances type of thing. Generally they will either pass a law or return it with some amendments for house of commons to sign off. I can't think of many occasions where the house of laws have outright refused a law.

Mechanisms are in place so that if the government want to pass something they can force it through. This is to stop the same bill ping ponging between the house of commons and the house of lords indefinitely. If the same bill is passed three times in the house of commons then it bypasses the house of lords on the third attempt so like I said they can't indefinitely block something.

Doesn't matter.

You're esstentially going "Hey it's not so bad!" which ironically is moving the goalposts like a hypocrite.

You go "Why do people view this nation as Dystopian and facist." and then downplay an unelected group of "appointed" men having the power to block and hinder democractically determined policies. As well as a monarchy with veto power. "Oh it's just checks and balances to our democracy. We need appointed people to decide that for us"

You're not arguing that the UK isn't dystopian here, you're just arguing that you don't really care.

Which is fine, but make no mistake that's what you're doing.
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Dystopian is a bit farfetched, but it does have major issues on free speech going on. That someone would get arrested for a joke/posting "offensive" lyrics while everyone is hush-hush on crimes committed by people of certain backgrounds because it would just be offensive is a bit scary.

Esrac posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Part of the perception is that the government is too feminist. I'll borrow one of my posts from another topic, and you can tell me if I'm missing something.

So if I understand the below correctly, a woman in the UK can lie about whether or not a child actually belongs to a particular man in order to get his wallet on the hook. The man can't get a paternity test without the woman's consent. Am I missing something? Because that sounds pretty fucked up and gynocentric to me.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1394653/Move-to-outlaw-secret-DNA-testing-by-fathers.html

Fathers who conduct secret paternity tests on their children will face prosecution under new laws to be proposed by a Government watchdog.

The Human Genetics Commission will recommend in a report to ministers that the theft of a person's DNA, including the clandestine removal of a child's hair or saliva, should become a criminal offence.

The proposal has come out of fears that increasing numbers of fathers are exploiting the growth of internet DNA testing services to undertake paternity checks without the consent of the child or its mother, with potentially traumatic consequences for all involved.

The law would also prevent private detectives, journalists, employers and others from gaining access to genetic information without the individual's consent, or using DNA left behind by an individual to check for diseases, genetic conditions or unknown relatives.

Earlier this week, the television producer Steve Bing - who Elizabeth Hurley, the actress, says is the father of her baby son Damian - was named in court papers as the father of a young girl caught up in the world's most expensive child support case.

And I don't think this gynocentric mindset is unrelated to people getting in legal trouble for criticizing Islam when you consider Intersectional Feminism.

Geez. It's like they're deliberately trying to ruin any possible defense the man might have in that case. Woman can accuse him of being the father to get child support, she has to consent to the DNA test that could disprove the claim, and he can be legally punished if he gets the test done without her permission. Dude is fucked.

The male birth control pill might be a game changer when it finally comes out.
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Crepes posted...

Is it some kind of meme that got out of hand?

I'd like to think so, but the overlap of those people with alt-right posters suggests that it's part of an agenda.
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Crepes posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

Crepes posted...

0TiamaT0 posted...

I dont know about dystopian, but your countrys willingness to arrest people over Facebook posts they disagree with is pretty fucked up...

I don't think this is as wide spread as the media in the US claim it is.

It doesnt have to be. The fact that it happens at all is enough.

Your country has bigger problems than worrying about the guy that doesnt like islam or the teenage girl posting rap lyrics.

I don't feel like posting hate speech on the internet or inciting terrorism is something that should be tolerated.

So incidents like that are incitement and hate speech. Do you want to throw in anymore buzzwords?

Youre a drone thats contributing to the dystopian idea going on in your country.
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Crepes posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

ROBANN_88 posted...

Is that odd?
Based on the previous sentence i got the impression you were saying that you can't do that in Germany

Try eating a ham sandwich in Saudi Arabia

Or a beef burger in India.

Or dog and cat in the US!

This is actually a bit of a dog and pony show in the UK, same as their prostitution laws.

It's actually legal to eat dog and cat in the UK.

It's just not legal to slaughter destroy dogs or cats for any reason (beyond putting down old/sick creatures) including for food.

But if somehow you got a dog sandwich from China and brought it into the UK, it would not be illegal to eat it.
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Crepes posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

ROBANN_88 posted...

Is that odd?
Based on the previous sentence i got the impression you were saying that you can't do that in Germany

Try eating a ham sandwich in Saudi Arabia

Or a beef burger in India.

Or dog and cat in the US!

Not really. It's legal to eat dogs and cats in most states. It's just illegal to sell them or their meat for consumption. So, if you humanely slaughter and butcher your own dogs and cats, you won't have a problem unless you're in one of the 5 or 6 states that do outlaw it.

The neighbors might think you're weird though.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

But if somehow you got a dog sandwich from China and brought it into the UK, it would not be illegal to eat it.

To my knowledge, this is the same in the Indian states where cow slaughter is illegal.
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scar the 1 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

But if somehow you got a dog sandwich from China and brought it into the UK, it would not be illegal to eat it.

To my knowledge, this is the same in the Indian states where cow slaughter is illegal.

Difference is in India it's a religious thing.

You get girls beaten up at Train Stations in India for carrying beef
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UnfairRepresent posted...

scar the 1 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

But if somehow you got a dog sandwich from China and brought it into the UK, it would not be illegal to eat it.

To my knowledge, this is the same in the Indian states where cow slaughter is illegal.

Difference is in India it's a religious thing.

You get girls beaten up at Train Stations in India for carrying beef

though, to be fair, in India you get girls beaten up anywhere for anything
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ROBANN_88 posted...

Whatever happened with that giant child sex abuse "grooming circle" thing?

Is that finished and dealt with, or is it still ongoing?

This is what happened to a big chunk of it.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-abuse-nick/man-behind-uk-vip-child-sex-claims-charged-with-perverting-justice-idUKKBN1JT1SB
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UnfairRepresent posted...

You're esstentially going "Hey it's not so bad!" which ironically is moving the goalposts like a hypocrite.

Your argument was that the house of lords can stop laws being passed. I made my argument that the house of lords being able to vet new bills is a positive and adds some checks and balances to stop the house of commons from being able to unilaterally pass laws. I also mentions they can't indefinitely stop a law being passed. You got a response to this or not?

I already said I'll happily argue your other points once you provide some sources. I'm here all day if you want to continue the discussion.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

scar the 1 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

But if somehow you got a dog sandwich from China and brought it into the UK, it would not be illegal to eat it.

To my knowledge, this is the same in the Indian states where cow slaughter is illegal.

Difference is in India it's a religious thing.

You get girls beaten up at Train Stations in India for carrying beef

Sure, and I'd wager that if you were carrying around cat meat in the UK people would get pissed as well. But you're absolutely right, there's a difference. Although it's not necessarily a religious thing so much as very deeply ingrained into the culture, with roots in religion.
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creativerealms posted...

Is the mayor of London really a terrorist?

Lol yeah the right like to picture the UK and much of Europe as horrible places to live as part of their anti immagrantion and anti Muslim retoric. Don't worry us in the center and the left know it's not that bad.

LMAO, "the right." REEEEEE Brexit, REEEEEEE racist xenophobe bigots, REEEEEEE! Sounds like "ring wingers" to me. XD