Current Events > Is atheism a religion?

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nicklebro 07/16/18 11:22:30 PM #101:	Asherlee10 posted... nicklebro posted... Asherlee10 posted... I don't think the big bang is unknowable. We have a lot of evidence for the theory which puts it in the 'beyond reasonable doubt" bucket. If there is sufficient evidence for something, then it isn't unknowable. I'm not sure what you mean by that. It's impossible to know whether the big bang happened or not. Idk what else you need explained. I'm not sure why you think this. Big Bang is a theory. There is sufficient evidence to show that beyond reasonable doubt. It is not unknowable. Something like a deity or higher being is can (currently) be categorized by people because it is unknowable. There is not any sufficient evidence to show beyond a reasonable doubt (to some...barring certain religious people). One is scientifically-based, the other is spiritual. Having enough evidence to be beyond reasonable doubt does not mean it is knowable. It does not make it an undeniable fact. Idk why you think there's no difference sufficient evidence and conclusive evidence. The big bang theory has not yet been proved, at present it is entirely unknowable. Regardless, why are you trying to detail the topic with this irrelevant nitpicking? You obviously got the point, did you realize you were wrong and decided to change the subject? --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905210665] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote> I don't think the big bang is unknowable. We have a lot of evidence for the theory which puts it in the 'beyond reasonable doubt" bucket. If there is sufficient evidence for something, then it isn't unknowable. I'm not sure what you mean by that.</quote> It's impossible to know whether the big bang happened or not. Idk what else you need explained.</quote> I'm not sure why you think this. Big Bang is a theory. There is sufficient evidence to show that beyond reasonable doubt. It is not unknowable. Something like a deity or higher being is can (currently) be categorized by people because it is unknowable. There is not any sufficient evidence to show beyond a reasonable doubt (to some...barring certain religious people). One is scientifically-based, the other is spiritual.</quote> Having enough evidence to be beyond reasonable doubt does not mean it is knowable. It does not make it an undeniable fact. Idk why you think there's no difference sufficient evidence and conclusive evidence. The big bang theory has not yet been proved, at present it is entirely unknowable. Regardless, why are you trying to detail the topic with this irrelevant nitpicking? You obviously got the point, did you realize you were wrong and decided to change the subject?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FLUFFYGERM 07/16/18 11:26:06 PM #102:	Asherlee10 posted... FLUFFYGERM posted... Asherlee10 posted... nicklebro posted... Asherlee10 posted... It seems that both camps hold a belief based on no evidence except for their feelings. It seems like a silly position. If something is unknowable, then why have a belief about it? Just leave it in the 'unknowable' bucket. That's not how anything works. You don't know the big bang happened, but I assume you believe it. There's tons of stuff you just can't know but believe anyways because there's sufficient evidence to convince you. Plus, you don't actually choose what you believe, it's not actually up to you. I don't think the big bang is unknowable. We have a lot of evidence for the theory which puts it in the 'beyond reasonable doubt" bucket. If there is sufficient evidence for something, then it isn't unknowable. I'm not sure what you mean by that. you cannot prove that you are not a brain in a jar somewhere, merely hallucinating your current life / other people / the universe. so there is a sense in which you cannot know those things, whereas you can know things like "i think therefore i am" I don't need to prove I'm not a brain in a jar because it isn't a belief I hold. Further, I am not saying that there are not 'unknowable' concepts in the universe. I'm saying that I take issue with the terminologies agnostic atheist and agnostic theist. Last, if you want to dig deeper into Descartes "I think; therefore I am"- it is not really a sound argument. It's important because it's part of the history of philosophy, but really no further than that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito,_ergo_sum#Critique you misunderstood. you cannot prove to yourself that you are not a brain in a jar. you have no way of "knowing" that we exist and that we aren't just figments of your imagination like in the matrix. that is the crux of the position. and regardless of what nonsense other philosophers said to be edgy or to try to get some fame, Descartes' I think Therefore I Am is bulletproof. sorry not sorry. --- Do good. Eat communists. <cite>FLUFFYGERM posted [p:905210854] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote> It seems that both camps hold a belief based on no evidence except for their feelings. It seems like a silly position. If something is unknowable, then why have a belief about it? Just leave it in the 'unknowable' bucket.</quote> That's not how anything works. You don't know the big bang happened, but I assume you believe it. There's tons of stuff you just can't know but believe anyways because there's sufficient evidence to convince you. Plus, you don't actually choose what you believe, it's not actually up to you.</quote> I don't think the big bang is unknowable. We have a lot of evidence for the theory which puts it in the 'beyond reasonable doubt" bucket. If there is sufficient evidence for something, then it isn't unknowable. I'm not sure what you mean by that.</quote> you cannot prove that you are not a brain in a jar somewhere, merely hallucinating your current life / other people / the universe. so there is a sense in which you cannot know those things, whereas you can know things like "i think therefore i am"</quote> I don't need to prove I'm not a brain in a jar because it isn't a belief I hold. Further, I am not saying that there are not 'unknowable' concepts in the universe. I'm saying that I take issue with the terminologies agnostic atheist and agnostic theist. Last, if you want to dig deeper into Descartes "I think; therefore I am"- it is not really a sound argument. It's important because it's part of the history of philosophy, but really no further than that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito,_ergo_sum#Critique</quote> you misunderstood. you cannot prove to yourself that you are not a brain in a jar. you have no way of "knowing" that we exist and that we aren't just figments of your imagination like in the matrix. that is the crux of the position. and regardless of what nonsense other philosophers said to be edgy or to try to get some fame, Descartes' I think Therefore I Am is bulletproof. sorry not sorry.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 07/16/18 11:27:31 PM #103:	Literally no way can you argue it's a religion. You can't even argue it's a belief system. You can argue that scientific theory is a belief system, in that you only believe in facts that are provable and that systems have to have some sort of internally consistent logic, but that is something entirely different. You can also argue that certain atheists have a belief system that is unique to them or some sort of sub-group, but that it. The central point about a religion is A) belief in a supernatural power, B) a system of rites and rituals to invoke that spirit or alter reality in some way, and C) an aspect of 'faith'. You would have to employ some serious equivocation fallacies to argue A) and B) are existent in atheism (though, some atheists may hold conflicting beliefs, but that is no different than a Christian who thinks Friday the 13th is unlucky, or a superstitious Muslim). C) is completely non-existent short of the tired old argument that, 'belief in scientific rigor is faith", but that's really stupid equivocation. Literally the only thing that unites all atheism is the rejection of a deity. Nothing else. Obviously, most atheists are going to reject most supernatural phenomenon because they often go hand-in-hand, but there is literally no rule. It's not like Christianity, where you have specific doctrines and 'rules'. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:905210908] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>Literally no way can you argue it's a religion. You can't even argue it's a belief system. You can argue that scientific theory is a belief system, in that you only believe in facts that are provable and that systems have to have some sort of internally consistent logic, but that is something entirely different. You can also argue that certain atheists have a belief system that is unique to them or some sort of sub-group, but that it. The central point about a religion is A) belief in a supernatural power, B) a system of rites and rituals to invoke that spirit or alter reality in some way, and C) an aspect of 'faith'. You would have to employ some serious equivocation fallacies to argue A) and B) are existent in atheism (though, some atheists may hold conflicting beliefs, but that is no different than a Christian who thinks Friday the 13th is unlucky, or a superstitious Muslim). C) is completely non-existent short of the tired old argument that, 'belief in scientific rigor is faith", but that's really stupid equivocation. Literally the only thing that unites all atheism is the rejection of a deity. Nothing else. Obviously, most atheists are going to reject most supernatural phenomenon because they often go hand-in-hand, but there is literally no rule. It's not like Christianity, where you have specific doctrines and 'rules'.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WheezinEd 07/16/18 11:28:13 PM #104:	nicklebro posted... And Merriam webster says exactly what I'm saying. Not to mention if you're knowledgeable on the etymology of the words then it's pretty clear what agnostic and gnostic mean. Here, since apparently only Merriam webster counts to you: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-do-secular-atheist-agnostic-mean Agnostic comes from the Greek word meaning "unknown" or "unknowable" (a-, "not" or "without," and gnstos, meaning "known"). Idk how you could possibly be ignorant enough to think that agnostic atheists (or agnostic theists) don't exist. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows wtf they're talking about. Did you even read the link you posted? It's like you just saw a sentence that supported you and ignored everything else. The very next sentence proves you wrong and supports me. I can't even fathom being so delusional. Though atheist and agnostic are words that are often used together or cited in similar contexts, they do not mean the same thing. Agnostic comes from the Greek word meaning "unknown" or "unknowable" (a-, "not" or "without," and gnstos, meaning "known"). It means "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" or, more broadly, "a person who does not believe or is unsure of something." Atheist also comes from Greek, from a- meaning "not" or "without" and theos, meaning "god." In English is simply means "a person who believes that God does not exist." Agnostic = "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" Atheist = "a person who believes that God does not exist." <cite>WheezinEd posted [p:905210934] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>And Merriam webster says exactly what I'm saying. Not to mention if you're knowledgeable on the etymology of the words then it's pretty clear what agnostic and gnostic mean. Here, since apparently only Merriam webster counts to you: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-do-secular-atheist-agnostic-mean Agnostic comes from the Greek word meaning "unknown" or "unknowable" (a-, "not" or "without," and gnstos, meaning "known"). Idk how you could possibly be ignorant enough to think that agnostic atheists (or agnostic theists) don't exist. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows wtf they're talking about.</quote> Did you even read the link you posted? It's like you just saw a sentence that supported you and ignored everything else. The very next sentence proves you wrong and supports me. I can't even fathom being so delusional. <quote> Though atheist and agnostic are words that are often used together or cited in similar contexts, they do not mean the same thing. Agnostic comes from the Greek word meaning "unknown" or "unknowable" (a-, "not" or "without," and gnstos, meaning "known"). It means "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" or, more broadly, "a person who does not believe or is unsure of something." Atheist also comes from Greek, from a- meaning "not" or "without" and theos, meaning "god." In English is simply means "a person who believes that God does not exist."</quote> Agnostic = "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" Atheist = "a person who believes that God does not exist."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 07/16/18 11:35:42 PM #105:	WheezinEd posted... nicklebro posted... And Merriam webster says exactly what I'm saying. Not to mention if you're knowledgeable on the etymology of the words then it's pretty clear what agnostic and gnostic mean. Here, since apparently only Merriam webster counts to you: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-do-secular-atheist-agnostic-mean Agnostic comes from the Greek word meaning "unknown" or "unknowable" (a-, "not" or "without," and gnstos, meaning "known"). Idk how you could possibly be ignorant enough to think that agnostic atheists (or agnostic theists) don't exist. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows wtf they're talking about. Did you even read the link you posted? It's like you just saw a sentence that supported you and ignored everything else. The very next sentence proves you wrong and supports me. I can't even fathom being so delusional. Though atheist and agnostic are words that are often used together or cited in similar contexts, they do not mean the same thing. Agnostic comes from the Greek word meaning "unknown" or "unknowable" (a-, "not" or "without," and gnstos, meaning "known"). It means "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" or, more broadly, "a person who does not believe or is unsure of something." Atheist also comes from Greek, from a- meaning "not" or "without" and theos, meaning "god." In English is simply means "a person who believes that God does not exist." Agnostic = "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" Atheist = "a person who believes that God does not exist." Yeah, it contradicts itself, hence why it's the one link that says as much. But regardless, your assertion is that agnostic atheists don't exist. Lol so there's really no reason to give you this much attention anyways. Look up the actual etymology of the words, it's plain as day what they actually mean. It's just ignorant people like you misusing them that causes these mistakes. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905211310] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>WheezinEd posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>And Merriam webster says exactly what I'm saying. Not to mention if you're knowledgeable on the etymology of the words then it's pretty clear what agnostic and gnostic mean. Here, since apparently only Merriam webster counts to you: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-do-secular-atheist-agnostic-mean Agnostic comes from the Greek word meaning "unknown" or "unknowable" (a-, "not" or "without," and gnstos, meaning "known"). Idk how you could possibly be ignorant enough to think that agnostic atheists (or agnostic theists) don't exist. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows wtf they're talking about.</quote> Did you even read the link you posted? It's like you just saw a sentence that supported you and ignored everything else. The very next sentence proves you wrong and supports me. I can't even fathom being so delusional. <quote> Though atheist and agnostic are words that are often used together or cited in similar contexts, they do not mean the same thing. Agnostic comes from the Greek word meaning "unknown" or "unknowable" (a-, "not" or "without," and gnstos, meaning "known"). It means "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" or, more broadly, "a person who does not believe or is unsure of something." Atheist also comes from Greek, from a- meaning "not" or "without" and theos, meaning "god." In English is simply means "a person who believes that God does not exist."</quote> Agnostic = "a person who does not have a definite belief about whether God exists or not" Atheist = "a person who believes that God does not exist."</quote> Yeah, it contradicts itself, hence why it's the one link that says as much. But regardless, your assertion is that agnostic atheists don't exist. Lol so there's really no reason to give you this much attention anyways. Look up the actual etymology of the words, it's plain as day what they actually mean. It's just ignorant people like you misusing them that causes these mistakes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WheezinEd 07/16/18 11:37:31 PM #106:	nicklebro posted... Look up the actual etymology of the words Literally what I did. You just don't like the results. <cite>WheezinEd posted [p:905211403] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>Look up the actual etymology of the words</quote> Literally what I did. You just don't like the results.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 07/16/18 11:39:09 PM #107:	https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods See? Merriam webster is inconsistent all over the place. But here at least they list the definitions of gnostic and agnostic atheists. Wikipedia is far more reliable and accurate. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905211478] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods See? Merriam webster is inconsistent all over the place. But here at least they list the definitions of gnostic and agnostic atheists. Wikipedia is far more reliable and accurate.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 07/16/18 11:39:48 PM #108:	WheezinEd posted... nicklebro posted... Look up the actual etymology of the words Literally what I did. You just don't like the results. No you didn't. You probably don't even know what etymology means lol. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905211502] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>WheezinEd posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>Look up the actual etymology of the words</quote> Literally what I did. You just don't like the results.</quote> No you didn't. You probably don't even know what etymology means lol.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WheezinEd 07/16/18 11:41:17 PM #109:	nicklebro posted... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods Literally a religion. Wikipedia is far more reliable and accurate. LOL <cite>WheezinEd posted [p:905211563] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism</quote> a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods Literally a religion. <quote>Wikipedia is far more reliable and accurate.</quote> LOL</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 07/16/18 11:42:35 PM #110:	WheezinEd posted... a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods Literally a religion. Lol what? This does not follow at all. A religious position is not a religion... Lmao are you always this wrong? Or just when it comes to religion? --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905211630] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>WheezinEd posted...</cite> <quote> a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods Literally a religion. </quote> Lol what? This does not follow at all. A religious position is not a religion... Lmao are you always this wrong? Or just when it comes to religion?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 07/16/18 11:44:56 PM #111:	It's also important to note that religion actually constitutes an actual structure (whether large or small). Not everyone who believed in the supernatural is religious, but all religious people believe in the supernatural. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:905211711] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>It's also important to note that religion actually constitutes an actual structure (whether large or small). Not everyone who believed in the supernatural is religious, but all religious people believe in the supernatural.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 07/16/18 11:58:40 PM #112:	The question of hard solipsism is possibly the most empty question in all of philosophy. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:905212338] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>The question of hard solipsism is possibly the most empty question in all of philosophy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 07/16/18 11:59:28 PM #113:	Dragonblade01 posted... The question of hard solipsism is possibly the most empty question in all of philosophy. I agree. It's basically useless. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905212381] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote>The question of hard solipsism is possibly the most empty question in all of philosophy.</quote> I agree. It's basically useless.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:02:13 AM #114:	Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905212482] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
tehzeldafanboy 07/17/18 12:02:33 AM #115:	FLUFFYGERM posted... you misunderstood. you cannot prove to yourself that you are not a brain in a jar. you have no way of "knowing" that we exist and that we aren't just figments of your imagination like in the matrix. that is the crux of the position. and regardless of what nonsense other philosophers said to be edgy or to try to get some fame, Descartes' I think Therefore I Am is bulletproof. sorry not sorry. But if you're real because your thoughts are real, then other things you think must also be, by that same token. This is why the "I think, therefore I am" thing is nonsense. In summary, Dragonblade01 posted... The question of hard solipsism is possibly the most empty question in all of philosophy. --- <le anime sig> <cite>tehzeldafanboy posted [p:905212499] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>FLUFFYGERM posted...</cite> <quote>you misunderstood. you cannot prove to yourself that you are not a brain in a jar. you have no way of "knowing" that we exist and that we aren't just figments of your imagination like in the matrix. that is the crux of the position. and regardless of what nonsense other philosophers said to be edgy or to try to get some fame, Descartes' I think Therefore I Am is bulletproof. sorry not sorry.</quote> But if you're real because your thoughts are real, then other things you think must also be, by that same token. This is why the "I think, therefore I am" thing is nonsense. In summary, <cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote>The question of hard solipsism is possibly the most empty question in all of philosophy.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 07/17/18 12:03:17 AM #116:	Kineth posted... Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim Let me just stop you there --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:905212535] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim</quote> Let me just stop you there</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 07/17/18 12:04:22 AM #117:	Kineth posted... Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it. They aren't really similar, at all. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Atheists are not making a claim, they are disputing an incredibly common claim. There is no 'atheists Bible' that hands out what you are supposed to believe in. Someone can be an atheist and still believe in ghosts, or magic, or invisible pink unicorns. That would requires some sort of faith. However, that is not a hallmark of the label atheism. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:905212587] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it.</quote> They aren't really similar, at all. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Atheists are not making a claim, they are disputing an incredibly common claim. There is no 'atheists Bible' that hands out what you are supposed to believe in. Someone can be an atheist and still believe in ghosts, or magic, or invisible pink unicorns. That would requires some sort of faith. However, that is not a hallmark of the label atheism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:08:17 AM #118:	Dash_Harber posted... Kineth posted... Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it. They aren't really similar, at all. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Atheists are not making a claim, they are disputing an incredibly common claim. There is no 'atheists Bible' that hands out what you are supposed to believe in. Someone can be an atheist and still believe in ghosts, or magic, or invisible pink unicorns. That would requires some sort of faith. However, that is not a hallmark of the label atheism. I'm saying that Atheism's claim is that there is no god/divine power/whatever. I'm not saying that Atheism and Theism are the same at all. They both hinge on a certain amount of conviction in the belief of the existence or lack thereof of divinity. If it were simply a counterargument to Abrahamaic religions, they could just look into something like Buddhism. Agnosticism is where skepticism truly lies. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905212780] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dash_Harber posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it.</quote> They aren't really similar, at all. The burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. Atheists are not making a claim, they are disputing an incredibly common claim. There is no 'atheists Bible' that hands out what you are supposed to believe in. Someone can be an atheist and still believe in ghosts, or magic, or invisible pink unicorns. That would requires some sort of faith. However, that is not a hallmark of the label atheism.</quote> I'm saying that Atheism's claim is that there is no god/divine power/whatever. I'm not saying that Atheism and Theism are the same at all. They both hinge on a certain amount of conviction in the belief of the existence or lack thereof of divinity. If it were simply a counterargument to Abrahamaic religions, they could just look into something like Buddhism. Agnosticism is where skepticism truly lies.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 07/17/18 12:09:36 AM #119:	Kineth posted... Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it. You don't have to make the claim that god does not exist to be an atheist. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:905212836] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it.</quote> You don't have to make the claim that god does not exist to be an atheist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:10:32 AM #120:	Dragonblade01 posted... Kineth posted... Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it. You don't have to make the claim that god does not exist to be an atheist. ? Go on.... --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905212874] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it.</quote> You don't have to make the claim that god does not exist to be an atheist.</quote> ? Go on....</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 07/17/18 12:12:07 AM #121:	Kineth posted... Dragonblade01 posted... Kineth posted... Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it. You don't have to make the claim that god does not exist to be an atheist. ? Go on.... You only have to reject the claim that some god or gods exist. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:905212938] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Atheism requires a similar amount of faith to theism because of the absolute claim with the inability to actually prove it.</quote> You don't have to make the claim that god does not exist to be an atheist.</quote> ? Go on....</quote> You only have to reject the claim that some god or gods exist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:13:39 AM #122:	That just makes you a skeptic. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905213004] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>That just makes you a skeptic.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 07/17/18 12:16:41 AM #123:	Kineth posted... That just makes you a skeptic. Not necessarily. You can reject a claim for non-skeptical reasons. Regardless, you would still at most be both a skeptic and an atheist, since this is about the theist claim. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:905213124] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>That just makes you a skeptic.</quote> Not necessarily. You can reject a claim for non-skeptical reasons. Regardless, you would still at most be both a skeptic and an atheist, since this is about the theist claim.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:20:27 AM #124:	Ok, so let me back up. If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. If you reject that claim that some specific god/s exist, that either means you just have different theistic believes or are agnostic due to the uncertainty of the existence of the ones you did not name. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905213289] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>Ok, so let me back up. If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. If you reject that claim that some specific god/s exist, that either means you just have different theistic believes or are agnostic due to the uncertainty of the existence of the ones you did not name.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 07/17/18 12:23:01 AM #125:	Dragonblade01 posted... Not necessarily. You can reject a claim for non-skeptical reasons. Yep my brother is that type of atheist, he's actually kind of a dogmatic conservative type on the whole He just has distaste for religion --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:905213393] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote>Not necessarily. You can reject a claim for non-skeptical reasons.</quote> Yep my brother is that type of atheist, he's actually kind of a dogmatic conservative type on the whole He just has distaste for religion</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 07/17/18 12:23:59 AM #126:	Kineth posted... If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. No, the first is a negative claim and the second is a positive. --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:905213426] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism.</quote> No, the first is a negative claim and the second is a positive.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 07/17/18 12:24:05 AM #127:	Kineth posted... That just makes you a skeptic. If you're a skeptic that does not harbor a belief that a deity exiats, you're also an atheist. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905213429] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>That just makes you a skeptic.</quote> If you're a skeptic that does not harbor a belief that a deity exiats, you're also an atheist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:24:36 AM #128:	Rejecting the idea that humanity has the correct idea of what god is or what religion is, isn't atheist unless you're reading atheist as "without religion." --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905213459] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>Rejecting the idea that humanity has the correct idea of what god is or what religion is, isn't atheist unless you're reading atheist as "without religion."</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:25:17 AM #129:	nicklebro posted... Kineth posted... That just makes you a skeptic. If you're a skeptic that does not harbor a belief that a deity exiats, you're also an atheist. You can be skeptical of things other than the existence of a deity, yeah. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905213485] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>That just makes you a skeptic.</quote> If you're a skeptic that does not harbor a belief that a deity exiats, you're also an atheist.</quote> You can be skeptical of things other than the existence of a deity, yeah.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:27:23 AM #130:	Giblet_Enjoyer posted... Kineth posted... If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. No, the first is a negative claim and the second is a positive. The claims might be different, but the conclusion appears to be the same. If there's no conclusion, it's just contrarianism. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905213584] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism.</quote> No, the first is a negative claim and the second is a positive.</quote> The claims might be different, but the conclusion appears to be the same. If there's no conclusion, it's just contrarianism.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 07/17/18 12:28:27 AM #131:	Kineth posted... Ok, so let me back up. If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. If you reject that claim that some specific god/s exist, that either means you just have different theistic believes or are agnostic due to the uncertainty of the existence of the ones you did not name. Quetionung the existence of a god is not even close to saying there.are no God's. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905213644] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Ok, so let me back up. If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. If you reject that claim that some specific god/s exist, that either means you just have different theistic believes or are agnostic due to the uncertainty of the existence of the ones you did not name.</quote> Quetionung the existence of a god is not even close to saying there.are no God's.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:32:00 AM #132:	It seems like y'all are wanting to be agnostic while calling yourselves, or rather this hypothetical, atheist. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905213794] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>It seems like y'all are wanting to be agnostic while calling yourselves, or rather this hypothetical, atheist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 07/17/18 12:34:03 AM #133:	Kineth posted... Giblet_Enjoyer posted... Kineth posted... If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. No, the first is a negative claim and the second is a positive. The claims might be different, but the conclusion appears to be the same. If there's no conclusion, it's just contrarianism. The conclusion is that you don't believe in god. Which is distinctly different from saying that you know that there isn't one. --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:905213890] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism.</quote> No, the first is a negative claim and the second is a positive.</quote> The claims might be different, but the conclusion appears to be the same. If there's no conclusion, it's just contrarianism.</quote> The conclusion is that you don't believe in god. Which is distinctly different from saying that you know that there isn't one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:36:27 AM #134:	Circling back then.. saying that you don't believe in God is similar to saying you believe in God. Requires faith. Sure, you were right about the semantics, but it feels pretty irrelevant. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905213997] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>Circling back then.. saying that you don't believe in God is similar to saying you believe in God. Requires faith. Sure, you were right about the semantics, but it feels pretty irrelevant.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 07/17/18 12:39:33 AM #135:	Kineth posted... Ok, so let me back up. If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. If you reject that claim that some specific god/s exist, that either means you just have different theistic believes or are agnostic due to the uncertainty of the existence of the ones you did not name. It's definitely atheism, but you definitely aren't saying the same thing. When I reject the claim that gods exist, that is categorically different from claiming that no god exists. And by the former, I'm an atheist. <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:905214125] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Ok, so let me back up. If you reject the claim that gods exist, that's the same as saying there aren't any gods. That's definitely atheism. If you reject that claim that some specific god/s exist, that either means you just have different theistic believes or are agnostic due to the uncertainty of the existence of the ones you did not name.</quote> It's definitely atheism, but you definitely aren't saying the same thing. When I reject the claim that gods exist, that is categorically different from claiming that no god exists. And by the former, I'm an atheist.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Wasssup Now 07/17/18 12:39:38 AM #136:	Is there a way to change my poll selection? Thinking about it after reading through the thread and seeing TC get handled. <cite>Wasssup Now posted [p:905214129] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>Is there a way to change my poll selection? Thinking about it after reading through the thread and seeing TC get handled.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Prestoff 07/17/18 12:40:47 AM #137:	Giblet_Enjoyer posted... He just has distaste for religion Wouldn't that fall under Anti-Theist? Gavi is the only open Anti-Theist I know on CE anytime we talk about religion. --- It's what all true warriors strive for! <cite>Prestoff posted [p:905214177] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted...</cite> <quote>He just has distaste for religion</quote> Wouldn't that fall under Anti-Theist? Gavi is the only open Anti-Theist I know on CE anytime we talk about religion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kineth 07/17/18 12:41:42 AM #138:	Dragonblade01 posted... It's definitely atheism, but you definitely aren't saying the same thing. When I reject the claim that gods exist, that is categorically different from claiming that no god exists. And by the former, I'm an atheist. As I said, you're right about the semantics, but it's pretty irrelevant compared to my first claim. If you're held up on the fact that I said believing that there's no God, change it up so that it means how an Atheist believes, and it will still flow the same. --- If you're not looking for any honest discussion, agreement, meeting halfway or middle ground, don't bother arguing with me. Selfish narcissists need not apply. <cite>Kineth posted [p:905214228] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote>It's definitely atheism, but you definitely aren't saying the same thing. When I reject the claim that gods exist, that is categorically different from claiming that no god exists. And by the former, I'm an atheist.</quote> As I said, you're right about the semantics, but it's pretty irrelevant compared to my first claim. If you're held up on the fact that I said believing that there's no God, change it up so that it means how an Atheist believes, and it will still flow the same.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 07/17/18 12:44:55 AM #139:	Here's an example of the distinction using a different topic: If I don't hold the belief that some birds have teeth, then I'm an ateethiest. I'm still open to the possibility but I require compelling evidence. This is not a claim. I simply don't believe because I have no reason to. If I believe that there are definitely no birds that have teeth, than I'm still ateethiest. The difference between the first and second is akin to (a)gnosticism --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:905214347] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>Here's an example of the distinction using a different topic: If I don't hold the belief that some birds have teeth, then I'm an ateethiest. I'm still open to the possibility but I require compelling evidence. This is not a claim. I simply don't believe because I have no reason to. If I believe that there are definitely no birds that have teeth, than I'm still ateethiest. The difference between the first and second is akin to (a)gnosticism</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nickels 07/17/18 12:45:43 AM #140:	I appreciate TCs username. --- "Why do people respond to r4x0r?" -BLACKUboy <cite>nickels posted [p:905214383] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>I appreciate TCs username.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 07/17/18 12:46:57 AM #141:	Prestoff posted... Giblet_Enjoyer posted... He just has distaste for religion Wouldn't that fall under Anti-Theist? Gavi is the only open Anti-Theist I know on CE anytime we talk about religion. That seems hard to believe, I've definitely seen many CEmen who hate religion But not really, anti-theist implies atheism doesn't it? How can you be against the belief in god while still believing in god --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:905214419] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Prestoff posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted...</cite> <quote>He just has distaste for religion</quote> Wouldn't that fall under Anti-Theist? Gavi is the only open Anti-Theist I know on CE anytime we talk about religion.</quote> That seems hard to believe, I've definitely seen many CEmen who hate religion But not really, anti-theist implies atheism doesn't it? How can you be against the belief in god while still believing in god</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dragonblade01 07/17/18 12:47:41 AM #142:	Kineth posted... Dragonblade01 posted... It's definitely atheism, but you definitely aren't saying the same thing. When I reject the claim that gods exist, that is categorically different from claiming that no god exists. And by the former, I'm an atheist. As I said, you're right about the semantics, but it's pretty irrelevant compared to my first claim. If you're held up on the fact that I said believing that there's no God, change it up so that it means how an Atheist believes, and it will still flow the same. But that's the entire crux of this question. Two people are in a room. A standard deck of playing cards is on a table face down. The only things they know are that the deck has been shuffled and that it is indeed a standard deck. Person A: The card on top is a red suit. Do you believe me? Person B: No, I do not. Does person B believe the top card is a black suit? And is he exercising faith? <cite>Dragonblade01 posted [p:905214451] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Dragonblade01 posted...</cite> <quote>It's definitely atheism, but you definitely aren't saying the same thing. When I reject the claim that gods exist, that is categorically different from claiming that no god exists. And by the former, I'm an atheist.</quote> As I said, you're right about the semantics, but it's pretty irrelevant compared to my first claim. If you're held up on the fact that I said believing that there's no God, change it up so that it means how an Atheist believes, and it will still flow the same.</quote> But that's the entire crux of this question. Two people are in a room. A standard deck of playing cards is on a table face down. The only things they know are that the deck has been shuffled and that it is indeed a standard deck. Person A: The card on top is a red suit. Do you believe me? Person B: No, I do not. Does person B believe the top card is a black suit? And is he exercising faith?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 07/17/18 12:49:22 AM #144:	nickels posted... I appreciate TCs username. Ha how'd you come up with that? --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:905214507] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>nickels posted...</cite> <quote>I appreciate TCs username.</quote> Ha how'd you come up with that?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
StanZarnack 07/17/18 1:10:34 AM #145:	Prestoff posted... Giblet_Enjoyer posted... He just has distaste for religion Wouldn't that fall under Anti-Theist? Gavi is the only open Anti-Theist I know on CE anytime we talk about religion. which he basically only applies towards Islam and Muslims as if Christianity is any better (its worse). people like him claim to be centrists yet seem to always agree with the alt-right. --- Common sense is not so common. <cite>StanZarnack posted [p:905215238] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Prestoff posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted...</cite> <quote>He just has distaste for religion</quote> Wouldn't that fall under Anti-Theist? Gavi is the only open Anti-Theist I know on CE anytime we talk about religion.</quote> which he basically only applies towards Islam and Muslims as if Christianity is any better (its worse). people like him claim to be centrists yet seem to always agree with the alt-right.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dash_Harber 07/17/18 3:55:36 AM #146:	Kineth posted... I'm saying that Atheism's claim is that there is no god/divine power/whatever. But it isn't making a claim, it's refuting someone else's claim. If person 1 claims A exists, and person 2 says they see no evidence of it, person 2 is not claiming B. Kineth posted... I'm not saying that Atheism and Theism are the same at all. That's exactly what you said. You said they both make claims and both require faith. Kineth posted... They both hinge on a certain amount of conviction in the belief of the existence or lack thereof of divinity. No, they don't. Theism hinges on faith in the divine. Atheism hinges on nothing, because it's literally the lack of theism. Kineth posted... If it were simply a counterargument to Abrahamaic religions, they could just look into something like Buddhism. Well, first of all, I'm not sure if you are saying this, but I feel I should clarify; Buddhism is theistic also (though polytheistic instead of monotheistic). Either way, though, I'm not saying that it's only in response to the Abrahamic faiths, I'm saying that atheism is the rejection of all claims of theism, which is not a claim in itself. Look at it this way; if the police charge you with theft, and you say that you never stole anything and there is no evidence of it, you are not charging them with something in response. Kineth posted... Agnosticism is where skepticism truly lies. I feel like this is a vague pseudo-intellectual response, and I don't really understand what it has to do with anything we were discussing. <cite>Dash_Harber posted [p:905219948] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>I'm saying that Atheism's claim is that there is no god/divine power/whatever.</quote> But it isn't making a claim, it's refuting someone else's claim. If person 1 claims A exists, and person 2 says they see no evidence of it, person 2 is not claiming B. <cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote> I'm not saying that Atheism and Theism are the same at all.</quote> That's exactly what you said. You said they both make claims and both require faith. <cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>They both hinge on a certain amount of conviction in the belief of the existence or lack thereof of divinity.</quote> No, they don't. Theism hinges on faith in the divine. Atheism hinges on nothing, because it's literally the lack of theism. <cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>If it were simply a counterargument to Abrahamaic religions, they could just look into something like Buddhism.</quote> Well, first of all, I'm not sure if you are saying this, but I feel I should clarify; Buddhism is theistic also (though polytheistic instead of monotheistic). Either way, though, I'm not saying that it's only in response to the Abrahamic faiths, I'm saying that atheism is the rejection of all claims of theism, which is not a claim in itself. Look at it this way; if the police charge you with theft, and you say that you never stole anything and there is no evidence of it, you are not charging them with something in response. <cite>Kineth posted...</cite> <quote>Agnosticism is where skepticism truly lies.</quote> I feel like this is a vague pseudo-intellectual response, and I don't really understand what it has to do with anything we were discussing.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SageHarpuia 07/17/18 9:28:11 AM #149:	If you have to ask then it's probably a religion --- "You will pay dearly for your futile resistance!" <cite>SageHarpuia posted [p:905227319] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>If you have to ask then it's probably a religion</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Blue_Target 07/17/18 9:28:42 AM #150:	Yes. Silence is also a music genre. --- https://imgtc.com/i/RdM9Q5I.gif https://imgtc.com/i/Ju4lDBV.gif <cite>Blue_Target posted [p:905227331] in Is atheism... [t:76803779]...</cite> <quote>Yes. Silence is also a music genre.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Is atheism a religion? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Is atheism a religion?