Board 8 > Blade Mafia Topic 11: Pudding Time

(+) Yeah! (+)

topic titles are hard.

3. Death
7. Leo
8. Panthera
10. Shaduln
11. Ashethan
12. Dels
14. Pxlated
16. Dowolf
17. Chris
18. MZero
20. Corrik

day ends at 11:12:50 pm EST.
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you know,

corrik's not wrong

it's not the worst time to go 1-for-1

especially when you consider that the town was very clearly going to lynch mzero at some point, being the weakest member of the town in terms of activity/contribution

its honestly not a bad plan to try to use mzero to get a mislynch before he inevitably dies

just thinking out loud

I do not believe Mzero's claim. He is not a person who fakes to apply pressure. I do not think he allows this day to go the way it did without claiming this right away if true.

Mzero would be so thrilled to have a guilty scan that he woulda been falling over himself to give it.

Leo had the perfect opportunity to claim moving town power with the meta of the day going up a day later due to actions not going in within time because Leo was inactive.

I do not buy it. I am firmly convinced Mzero is scum. I have felt better about Leo all game. Mzero, while having time zone issues, has been rarely engaged since day 1 where I did like him more. (Do note that ashethan came out of the woodwork today as soon as this claim from Mzero was made).

I feel Mzero is the logical scum here. There IS tons of incentive for Mzero to try to 1 for 1 here.
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eople should be a little rash.

Put yourself in the shoes of a town odd night tracker. Ignore the fact that your role doesn't make sense from a mechanical or a flavour perspective. You've used one scan going nowhere, it's N3 now. Will the game even last to N5 with you alive? Better make your shot count.

Now, what would you do here members of town? You'd probably want to track the person who has the best chance of being scum, right? Mzero would have you believe that the best chance of hitting scum is to track the guy who had internet issues...for some reason? It's based on so many bizarre assumptions that I don't even know where to start. If I moved that would automatically make me scum because I wasn't there to check my action?

BUT

BUT

<bold>THIS IS KEY</bold>

My timestamps updated not long after the D3 lynch. I had driven two hours to town, as I did right before Han was lynched, to check my email and etc. Catch up on mafia and punk some fools. But the day was already over! I didn't spend a ton of time finding out why, but the fact remains my time stamps updated. Mzero's entire "reasoning" for tracking me makes zero sense. It's not based on finding scum. It makes no sense from a town perspective. It's like he really wanted to fake that I was scum and made the baldest fabrication of all time.

Because he couldn't say "oh yeah Leo was my top scum suspect" because that would be very, very disprovable. Why target me and not someone weak like Shad or Ashethan? Maybe they're scum, maybe they know that now that I'm not suffering from "no internet at the north pole"-itis I'm someone not widely considered to be town, but the type of someone who WILL prove myself town if I'm physically able to play.

I was well on my way to working my way off scum's meager list of potential mislynches. When I flip town and mzero gets lynched the next day, the math still means scum just needs one more mislynch. Scum could go one for one twice and just win

I get mislynched. Mzero gets lynched. The scummiest town player gets lynched. Town loses.

Tell me I'm wrong. If you're town, don't be smug and turn off your brain and troll me. I'm no Han. Mzero is no dead town hero FD. THINK and consider every possibility, and look at everything I've posted about Mzero so far this game. Suppress the dopamine burst that comes from "oh thank god guaranteed scum yippee"

Does his role make sense? Do his actions make sense? Does anything about how he's played the game make sense from a town perspective?
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Ok, I got ninja'd twice but my speech was way more cinematic.
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I think tracking you for that meta reason makes sense honestly

and you were on the list of PoE, Chris even faked a... something on you

so you're making it sound like tracking you instead of a suspect was bad, but eh, you were a collective town suspect

mzero did you check leo's timestamps before choosing your action?

but yeah, as corrik and I just said, this is a decent time for a gambit, so! let's consider both sides here!

Dels posted...

I think tracking you for that meta reason makes sense honestly

and you were on the list of PoE, Chris even faked a... something on you

so you're making it sound like tracking you instead of a suspect was bad, but eh, you were a collective town suspect

mzero did you check leo's timestamps before choosing your action?

but yeah, as corrik and I just said, this is a decent time for a gambit, so! let's consider both sides here!

I may have been a collective town suspect, but that is not the reason Mzero gave. It's one he later tagged on when pressed and called out about it. If Mzero had something like "he hasn't posted for days so I was suspicious," that would be a much more logical thing for town to think and post.

I completely reject that the meta reason makes sense. It is the epitome of "lol timestamps"

Alternate universe where Mzero actually tracked inactive me to like, Corrik or some such. Because remember, if this is a town mindset you're not going to bank on being lucky and tracking a killer or anything like that.

Me: I did an unexpected jinjo thing to Corrik lol

Mzero: HOW DID YOU SUBMIT A NIGHT ACTION IF YOU WERE AFK

Me: I wasn't afk. My internet came back. I went to town and posted. I used my alt Leo3Leo3Leo. Any millions of numbers of things.

Mzero: HOW COULD THIS BE
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did Pxel ever explain why she voted Mzero and not Leo?
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Good points from

My phone offered to turn it into an emoji and I said yes

htaeD posted...

did Pxel ever explain why she voted Mzero and not Leo?

No. I'm kind of curious

Dels posted...

Good points from

Creepy
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Also ugh this is so conflicting

I can see Mzero as scum if Delse is scum
But if Delse is scum and Mzero is scum, he trapped himself into not being able to vote Leo and I dont think he'd do that. So back to square one.

What I can say about day1 Mzero is that he at least was consistent in disliking dowolf. But it also made him not choose between Panth and Donker, and thats suspect.
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wait, why can you see mzero as scum if I am scum?

because I defended him earlier?

Oh he did say he could get behind a Panthera lynch
but never voted him

Mzero, why was that again?

(His last day1 post was just bothering to ask shad about his opinions on Panth)
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Dels posted...

wait, why can you see mzero as scum if I am scum?

because I defended him earlier?

Its more the 'why would Mzero as scum even do this?'
And one theory could be 'to save you from the fire'.

But like I said, its a selfdefeating theory.
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(also your enthusiasm about Mzero's reveal was one of the few times where I felt you were invested in the game)
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Dels posted...

My phone offered to turn it into an emoji and I said yes

what is this fft?

...End of the day, if MZero is scum, who benefits? Other than myself, the strongest person arguing we should trust MZero is Chris. But if Chris is scum, why have MZero gambit? Town was already listening to Chris. So that leaves us with assuming that scum are the ones arguing to get their scumbuddy lynched, on the basis that it'd make them look better in the future. This only makes a lick of sense if we assume the people being pressured by Chris at the time were scum who needed to make a desperate play. So... Corrik?

But then, why would you have your scumbuddy making the desperate play be the one who's rarely on, and who almost certainly would not be around for lynch? Why claim to have tracked Leo, when they could've picked a less active and/or resilient player instead? An urge to get rid of power doesn't make sense -- Psychic is as good as 'nilla at this point. And it wasn't like Leo was considered extremely town. Why not take me down with him, for instance, instead of Leo? Would've been an easy enough case to build.

Too many questions.
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eh, i still maintain that if i am town, mzero has no reason to try to 1-for-1 here?

except like i said that scumteam figures he'd go down eventually and tries for the 1-for-1 today on a day when people would say "why would scum 1-for-1, it's not even lylo?!" whereas if he tries it tomorrow its not believed

htaeD posted...

(also your enthusiasm about Mzero's reveal was one of the few times where I felt you were invested in the game)

same tbh

dowolf posted...

Dels posted...

My phone offered to turn it into an emoji and I said yes

what is this fft?

...End of the day, if MZero is scum, who benefits? Other than myself, the strongest person arguing we should trust MZero is Chris. But if Chris is scum, why have MZero gambit? Town was already listening to Chris. So that leaves us with assuming that scum are the ones arguing to get their scumbuddy lynched, on the basis that it'd make them look better in the future. This only makes a lick of sense if we assume the people being pressured by Chris at the time were scum who needed to make a desperate play. So... Corrik?

But then, why would you have your scumbuddy making the desperate play be the one who's rarely on, and who almost certainly would not be around for lynch? Why claim to have tracked Leo, when they could've picked a less active and/or resilient player instead? An urge to get rid of power doesn't make sense -- Psychic is as good as 'nilla at this point. And it wasn't like Leo was considered extremely town. Why not take me down with him, for instance, instead of Leo? Would've been an easy enough case to build.

Too many questions.

You are overthinking it hard.
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This only makes a lick of sense if we assume the people being pressured by Chris at the time were scum who needed to make a desperate play. So... Corrik?

wasn' I the one being pressured by chris, not corrik?

he unvoted corrik and called corrik town

also, you're way more townread than leo

leo's been gone for 2 whole ("whole") days

the only easier target than leo would've been shad

Dels posted...

except like i said that scumteam figures he'd go down eventually and tries for the 1-for-1 today on a day when people would say "why would scum 1-for-1, it's not even lylo?!" whereas if he tries it tomorrow its not believed

Oye! I said that.
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Dels posted...

eh, i still maintain that if i am town, mzero has no reason to try to 1-for-1 here?

except like i said that scumteam figures he'd go down eventually and tries for the 1-for-1 today on a day when people would say "why would scum 1-for-1, it's not even lylo?!" whereas if he tries it tomorrow its not believed

Again, this only makes sense if we assume that scum felt they were in danger with how the day was going. We're not in a situation where a good chunk of the game is confirmed, after all.

Why would scum feel panicked enough to enact this gambit, is the core question I feel those wanting to lynch MZero need to answer.
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htaeD posted...

Dels posted...

except like i said that scumteam figures he'd go down eventually and tries for the 1-for-1 today on a day when people would say "why would scum 1-for-1, it's not even lylo?!" whereas if he tries it tomorrow its not believed

Oye! I said that.

you did? i thought corrik was the only one besides me who said it!

dowolf posted...

Dels posted...

My phone offered to turn it into an emoji and I said yes

what is this fft?

...End of the day, if MZero is scum, who benefits? Other than myself, the strongest person arguing we should trust MZero is Chris. But if Chris is scum, why have MZero gambit? Town was already listening to Chris. So that leaves us with assuming that scum are the ones arguing to get their scumbuddy lynched, on the basis that it'd make them look better in the future. This only makes a lick of sense if we assume the people being pressured by Chris at the time were scum who needed to make a desperate play. So... Corrik?

But then, why would you have your scumbuddy making the desperate play be the one who's rarely on, and who almost certainly would not be around for lynch? Why claim to have tracked Leo, when they could've picked a less active and/or resilient player instead? An urge to get rid of power doesn't make sense -- Psychic is as good as 'nilla at this point. And it wasn't like Leo was considered extremely town. Why not take me down with him, for instance, instead of Leo? Would've been an easy enough case to build.

Too many questions.

Scum needs two mislynches.

After today, if I'm mislynched, they will need one mislynch. Literally nobody except Dels thought Mzero didn't fit in a four pack of scum. If you're Town, Dowolf, you are regarded to be too town for a gambit to work, I reckon. Everyone is very murky on me. But I'm someone who quickly becomes unmurky when I have time and momentum.

I've exposed Mzero in half a dozen different ways, and if I was someone better regarded this wouldn't even be a contest at all beyond "why would scum do something so incredibly...stupid"
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dowolf posted...

Dels posted...

eh, i still maintain that if i am town, mzero has no reason to try to 1-for-1 here?

except like i said that scumteam figures he'd go down eventually and tries for the 1-for-1 today on a day when people would say "why would scum 1-for-1, it's not even lylo?!" whereas if he tries it tomorrow its not believed

Again, this only makes sense if we assume that scum felt they were in danger with how the day was going. We're not in a situation where a good chunk of the game is confirmed, after all.

Why would scum feel panicked enough to enact this gambit, is the core question I feel those wanting to lynch MZero need to answer.

yeah i was sort of agreeing with you, or at least, just offering my additional PoV

if i'm scum then maybe scum felt panicked though i'd wonder why the fuck the scumteam cares about saving me if i'm scum since i'd clearly be self-destructive and they'd probably fucking hate me

if i'm town then no need to enact any gambit. the other potential lynch was corrik, which could've still happened? but chris backed off on it so eh. mzero COULD be scum with corrik if they thought corrik was gonna get lynched like it seemed when the day started.

of course, corrik is voting mzero here. so.

not sure how useful any of this is.

Dels posted...

htaeD posted...

Dels posted...

except like i said that scumteam figures he'd go down eventually and tries for the 1-for-1 today on a day when people would say "why would scum 1-for-1, it's not even lylo?!" whereas if he tries it tomorrow its not believed

Oye! I said that.

you did? i thought corrik was the only one besides me who said it!

quite sure. As a response to one of your posts even.
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Mzero was somewhat suspected today. But not that suspected.
Perhaps he felt this was his last chance, since we were kinda massclaiming?
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htaeD posted...

Dels posted...

htaeD posted...

Dels posted...

except like i said that scumteam figures he'd go down eventually and tries for the 1-for-1 today on a day when people would say "why would scum 1-for-1, it's not even lylo?!" whereas if he tries it tomorrow its not believed

Oye! I said that.

you did? i thought corrik was the only one besides me who said it!

quite sure. As a response to one of your posts even.

i didn't think you were lying! was just surprised. must've missed it.

htaeD posted...

Mzero was somewhat suspected today. But not that suspected.
Perhaps he felt this was his last chance, since we were kinda massclaiming?

eh

"somewhat suspected"

everyone but me had him in their PoE basically

if he's scum, he was clearly gonna be lynched at some point

True. But the votes were piling up on you, not him.
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dowolf posted...

Dels posted...

eh, i still maintain that if i am town, mzero has no reason to try to 1-for-1 here?

except like i said that scumteam figures he'd go down eventually and tries for the 1-for-1 today on a day when people would say "why would scum 1-for-1, it's not even lylo?!" whereas if he tries it tomorrow its not believed

Again, this only makes sense if we assume that scum felt they were in danger with how the day was going. We're not in a situation where a good chunk of the game is confirmed, after all.

Why would scum feel panicked enough to enact this gambit, is the core question I feel those wanting to lynch MZero need to answer.

They don't have to feel panicked at all.
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Me today

Probably him at some point in the future and there'd be nothing he could do to stop it

i said this in post #2

If it was the perfect time for a scum gambit, it would be less likely to work as a scum gambit, paradoxically

This is a "pretty good time" for a gambit, much safer. So much more WIFOM potential.
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i agree with corrik

except that i'm arguing that it's possible that mzero could be scum doing this

and he's arguing that it's definite

which is a strange amount of certainty

Dels posted...

i agree with corrik

except that i'm arguing that it's possible that mzero could be scum doing this

and he's arguing that it's definite

which is a strange amount of certainty

It is okay because you are definitely scum also.
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Corrik is always certain no matter what he is saying....
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I don't disagree that Mzero's logic is off. But if he's scum, he's got a whole scum team to come up with reasons to have scanned you. Town power sometimes does act less than ideally (personally if I were tracker though I wouldn't have tracked a claimed vanilla).

I also can't help but feel Leo is scum here going "OMG YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME? HE TRACKED ME BECAUSE OF THAT!? SRSLY?"

On the other hand, MZero does seem to have gotten really lucky to have tracked the scum member who apparently sent in the kill. (Assuming Pxl is town, since she said she was roleblocked). And forcing mylo wouldn't be the worst move.

Mzero also did himself no favors NOT coming in and being like "Time to die Leo" If he's town, that's exactly what he should have done. If he's scum, his team might not have come up with the plan until later.

He saves information for a little longer than he should've too. Giving us limited amount of time to talk about it. (Though since yesterday was the fourth of july, we'd probably have a fairly limited time either way) I think town would want it out as early as possible.
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Okay then Corrik
if Delse is scum, why is he allying with Leo?
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Look at this way.

If today was going to be a mislynch, poor Corrik or Dels or what have you, that person would still be a mislynch after I and Mzero are lynched.

Only now, they would win. I argue that this makes more sense when scum is ahead. This is not scum desperation. This is scum calculation.
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Dels posted...

yeah i was sort of agreeing with you, or at least, just offering my additional PoV

yeah, I realize that.

But if your best response to my question is "well maybe they felt like doing a gambit anyways," then you're getting nowhere with me.
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(the "you" in that line being addressed to basically everyone but dels)
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dowolf posted...

Dels posted...

yeah i was sort of agreeing with you, or at least, just offering my additional PoV

yeah, I realize that.

But if your best response to my question is "well maybe they felt like doing a gambit anyways," then you're getting nowhere with me.

well its not "maybe they felt like it"

if they truly believe that mzero is gonna go down sooner or later (the thread was clearly showing they were gonna PoE him and lynch him eventually)

then as leo and death and corrik say, NOW is the time to go for the 1-on-1, when we don't suspect it and have reason to doubt it

Ashethan posted...

Mzero also did himself no favors NOT coming in and being like "Time to die Leo" If he's town, that's exactly what he should have done. If he's scum, his team might not have come up with the plan until later.

...no. Immediately stifling discussion is never a good play (see: d2. Unfortunately hider kinda forces that).

slash Ashe how long have you been here?
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dowolf posted...

(the "you" in that line being addressed to basically everyone but dels)

oh

Your response is welcome too!
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htaeD posted...

Corrik is always certain no matter what he is saying....

wow its almost like that's not a helpful playstyle

There is one thing so far I do feel speaks in Leo's favor.
He was a hell of a lot more active and investigating day2 than Mzero was. Even with his internet crapping out near the end.

Mzero had just a few remarks and that glib response to Hans claim.
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RogueNoble posted...

Look at this way.

If today was going to be a mislynch, poor Corrik or Dels or what have you, that person would still be a mislynch after I and Mzero are lynched.

Only now, they would win. I argue that this makes more sense when scum is ahead. This is not scum desperation. This is scum calculation.

You make a good argument.