Poll of the Day > I liked Fallout 3 (for the looting, same with Skryim), but not Fallout NV

(+) Yeah! (+)

New Vegas just played really... it was gimp

...

Should I get Fallout 4?
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You're allowed to have your wrong opinion.

4 is more like 3 than NV, so yeah sure.
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good

NV was ass compared to 3.
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I liked many things about NV; the weapon mods, the different ammo types, the fact that you can make your own ammo, faction outfits and faction relations.

But none of that could balance out the sheer fact that I hated the setting, I hated what the NCR had become, I hated that the Legion were just generic bad guys who did bad things so you should hate them, most the factions were dull, the Brotherhood of Steel being rendered almost functionally non existent, the whole stupid backstory with Ulysses and the Lonesome Road that I never cared about, The Courier being railroaded into the plot post revenge. The fact that many NPCs after a point just ended dialogue with a "...", the fact that New Vegas itself was tiny, had very little to do, was underpopulated and was so exceedingly easy to get into (a whole 2000 caps, which you can get basically most, if not all of that, by just stealing all the random crap people have in Goodsprings). Also, you couldn't blow up most of the cars.

Fallout 3 is far from a masterpiece, but I at least enjoy the urban decay of DC, along with the different take on the Brotherhood of Steel, along with the Outcasts for that more classic approach.
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If yall keep saying good things about 3 youre gonna lure out PO and a novel
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it's not PO's fault they have awful opinions.
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I loved new vegas. It made me never use vats again

and then 4 came out and I still didn't use vats but I was PISSED that all crit hits were tied to vats. what a joke

po already knows 3 is better than nv anyways
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fo3 fans still mad and holding a grudge after a decade of Fallout New Vegas outmatching them.

I like FO3, NV, and FO4
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NV isn't bad, it's just a tad overrated.
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papercup posted...

NV isn't bad, it's just a tad overrated.

Ive probably played more of NV than any other Fallout game

Really enjoy the faction system and how many dialogue options there are for various skill checks
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Y'all also play Fallout for different reasons.
I want to check out different factions, talk to people, make interesting choices, and change the world.
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New Vegas is love, New Vegas is life.

Suck it, suckers!
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HorrorJudasGoat posted...

fo3 fans still mad and holding a grudge after a decade of Fallout New Vegas outmatching them.

nv fans still super upset that there's nothing to do in their boring ass empty map
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NV is the better game so I'm not sure what your issue was exactly.
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helIy posted...

HorrorJudasGoat posted...

fo3 fans still mad and holding a grudge after a decade of Fallout New Vegas outmatching them.

nv fans still super upset that there's nothing to do in their boring ass empty map

only thing to do in 3 was blow up one place and kill yourself so idk what was so special about it tbh.
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I hope Fallout 76 improves upon the building mechanics. I'm in the process of building vault 88, and when you get detailed you really see all the missing pieces and how a lot of pieces either fight each other or should work, but don't.
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vault 88 is too big
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Eh, yeah. I don't get why they made the cavern that huge when your build limit will run out long before you use it all. Without glitches anyway.
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LanHikari10 posted...

I'm in the process of building vault 88, and when you get detailed you really see all the missing pieces and how a lot of pieces either fight each other or should work, but don't.

Shoddy DLC, but mods fix everything so it's ok!
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What irks me is how awful the npc pathfinding logic works with any player built structures
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vault 88 isn't shoddy

he's talking about the general building mechanics
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Mead posted...

What irks me is how awful the npc pathfinding logic works with any player built structures

Oh god yeah, it's atrocious.
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To each their own I suppose.... I enjoyed New Vegas more because of the setting. It had a post apocalyptic western vibe to it, and I liked that civilization seemed to be on the upswing in the area. It wasn't just people squatting in shanty towns and stuff.

Zangulus posted...

The big thing I didnt like about NV really was modding weapons. Its just kind of clunky.

The same thing exists in 4. And the base building is even worse in some cases. I mean, I understand bases are going to be dirty and overgrown. But did rakes stop fucking existing in the last 200 years?

The issue with base building was the fact they didn't give you a top down view for it. It was impossible to place things correctly without cheating.

Mead posted...

papercup posted...

NV isn't bad, it's just a tad overrated.

Ive probably played more of NV than any other Fallout game

Really enjoy the faction system and how many dialogue options there are for various skill checks

Well that's good and all but doesn't really fit in a Fallout game. I would rather complete every quest in a single playthrough.
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Well that's good and all but doesn't really fit in a Fallout game. I would rather complete every quest in a single playthrough.

What

No
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yes
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I think Fallout 3 gets a lot of things right that we don't usually think about that makes it fun despite its flaws, and NV gets a lot of things technically right, but misses a lot of what made Fallout 3 fun.

I remember reading about the developer of World of Goo saying how one of his rules was to make sure that everything was "juicy". Every interaction you had with the game should make squishy/poppy sounds and always give some kind of sensual response back to the player.

I think this sort of ineffable atmospheric/sensual experience is an important part of what makes a lot of games funner than they could be. In other words, it's possible that gameplay (game mechanics specifically) isn't quite as important as we think it is.

If you reduce most games down to just their gameplay, turning them basically into spreadsheets or whatever it would look like (varies by genre), they lose a ton, maybe all, of their fun. A lot of the fun of a game comes from the sensual experience, not just the game mechanics.

So, for me, Fallout 3 had a fantastic sensual experience which more than made up for its flaws in just about every single other area. The experience of exploring the wasteland in Fallout 3 is so unique and authentic and FUN, and it was sure as heck not replicated in NV, even if NV might be technically better in a lot of ways.
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that is because nv is a boring empty map with nothing to do in it
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Revelation34 posted...

Well that's good and all but doesn't really fit in a Fallout game.

Hilarious and incorrect.
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TallTamryu posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Well that's good and all but doesn't really fit in a Fallout game.

Hilarious and incorrect.

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NV is easily my favorite in the series, ok?

Aculo posted...

NV is easily my favorite in the series, ok?

My problem was that you couldn't kick open a few hundred lockers and then carry around thousands of rockets I'll never use
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Lokarin posted...

Aculo posted...

NV is easily my favorite in the series, ok?

My problem was that you couldn't kick open a few hundred lockers and then carry around thousands of rockets I'll never use

especially in survival mode, ok?

i was already in love with NV, then when i replayed using survival mode, i loved it even harder, ok?

I don't even know why I didn't like New Vegas. I remember a lot of the story and stuff and I played it a good while... But I don't remember it fondly. There was just some ineffable thing that didn't work for me personally. 3 and 4 rocked my world. I may give New Vegas another chance some day.

ReggieTheReckless posted...

I loved new vegas. It made me never use vats again

and then 4 came out and I still didn't use vats but I was PISSED that all crit hits were tied to vats. what a joke

That makes me so frigging mad too. I only use VATS in absolute emergencies like a suicide mutant ten feet away from me... So that means I can't ever use crits or crit increasing abilities? Thanks. Thanks a lot.
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Moonjay posted...

That makes me so frigging mad too. I only use VATS in absolute emergencies like a suicide mutant ten feet away from me... So that means I can't ever use crits or crit increasing abilities? Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Mods fix everything! Slow-mo mod (using ap there in place of VATS) and also crit anywhere low chance mod made it way better. I don't like vats so i never used it.

Bethesda makes a lot of weird/dumb design choices so it's required. Idk how people play any of their games w/o heavily modding them honestly.
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For some reason I have always felt compelled to play all Bethesda games completely vanilla. I've never used a mod for them at all.
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Mead posted...

What

No

Yes.

TallTamryu posted...

Hilarious and incorrect.

Well the truth is usually funny.
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4 > NV > 3
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Sahuagin posted...

I think Fallout 3 gets a lot of things right that we don't usually think about that makes it fun despite its flaws, and NV gets a lot of things technically right, but misses a lot of what made Fallout 3 fun.

I remember reading about the developer of World of Goo saying how one of his rules was to make sure that everything was "juicy". Every interaction you had with the game should make squishy/poppy sounds and always give some kind of sensual response back to the player.

I think this sort of ineffable atmospheric/sensual experience is an important part of what makes a lot of games funner than they could be. In other words, it's possible that gameplay (game mechanics specifically) isn't quite as important as we think it is.

If you reduce most games down to just their gameplay, turning them basically into spreadsheets or whatever it would look like (varies by genre), they lose a ton, maybe all, of their fun. A lot of the fun of a game comes from the sensual experience, not just the game mechanics.

So, for me, Fallout 3 had a fantastic sensual experience which more than made up for its flaws in just about every single other area. The experience of exploring the wasteland in Fallout 3 is so unique and authentic and FUN, and it was sure as heck not replicated in NV, even if NV might be technically better in a lot of ways.

All of these words, and not a single point.

I had plenty of fun playing NV, so I guess everything you were talking about by "adding or removing fun" was just sorta moot?
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Moonjay posted...

For some reason I have always felt compelled to play all Bethesda games completely vanilla. I've never used a mod for them at all.

I feel bad for you. Even with just thinking about all their bugs. That hurts.
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shadowsword87 posted...

All of these words, and not a single point. I had plenty of fun playing NV, so I guess everything you were talking about by "adding or removing fun" was just sorta moot?

I think I explained it pretty well. (I don't see how you can say I didn't make a point, I very clearly did.)

The subjective sensual experience of playing a game is not something we often focus on. We might say a game has good music or cool sound effects, but the total aesthetic that a game captures is, I don't think, something we identify very often, other than to say it had "good atmosphere" or something.

so as I said, for me, the total aesthetic of Fallout 3 was good enough that I can enjoy the game despite its endless flaws, and the opposite is true of NV (I don't enjoy its aesthetic despite the endless technical ways in which it's superior to F3).

and yes, this is necessarily subjective, so another person may enjoy something I don't and vice-versa. that's kind of the point. the subjective experience of playing the game can be just as or perhaps more important than the objective mechanical parts of the game. how the game feels when you play it can be more important than what the game looks like on paper.

(this is why, for example, music is often such a surprisingly important part of a game. objectively it shouldn't be important at all but instead it's very often one of most memorable parts of a game.)
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sahagalaguin is right you know
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All that he said was that he enjoyed 3 because it was fun, and NV wasn't fun, and the atmosphere of the games matter.
As if game devs have a "fun" meter, or an "atmosphere" meter, that they can adjust up and down.

Specific details like "I didn't like how they used the skill system", or "I am a fan of the wackier side of Fallout, and NV toned that down", or "I felt like the color scheme was bland", or "the story was shit", and so on, those are details that matter.
Bland generic terms like "the overall aesthetics" and "just being fun" is awful for any sort of discussion because it doesn't mean anything.
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shadowsword87 posted...

All that he said was that he enjoyed 3 because it was fun, and NV wasn't fun, and the atmosphere of the games matter.
As if game devs have a "fun" meter, or an "atmosphere" meter, that they can adjust up and down.

they sort of do, it's just difficult. exciting music is "funner" than boring music. satisfying bangs when you shoot a gun is "funner" than dull sounds. a finely adjusted lighting scheme that captures the right feeling for the moment is "funner" than lighting that's all over the place. etc.etc. and yes it's all subjective, that's the point. but even though it's partly subjective, there's still also a genuine difference between exciting and crappy sounds.

Specific details like "I didn't like how they used the skill system", or "I am a fan of the wackier side of Fallout, and NV toned that down", or "I felt like the color scheme was bland", or "the story was shit", and so on, those are details that matter.
Bland generic terms like "the overall aesthetics" and "just being fun" is awful for any sort of discussion because it doesn't mean anything.

I'm trying to broaden the idea to be more applicable than to just this one game. I can give you a big list of small things that all add a little bit to the "total aesthetic" of fallout 3, but the point is how none of them alone is enough, and it's something that's even hard to articulate when you know about it. (for example, for myself, I'm surprised by the fact that I just can't get tired of shooting ghouls in the face with a shotgun, and I'm not exactly sure why.)

so I guess here's a list of some of the small details that add up to a lot more than I'd expect them to, but if you don't "get it" when you play the game, you're definitely not going to get it reading a list. remember the point is how these all mix together, not just how good they are individually. also, this is not an argument for why *you* should like the game, this is an argument for why *I* like the game despite it's flaws.
- the soundtrack by Inon Zur, particularly the peaceful music and the combat music
- the real looking and feeling broken concrete and crumbling city, in particular the way the broken concrete looks with rebars sticking out of it, etc.
- the Washington DC monuments
- the voice acting of super mutants
- the sounds made by mirelurks
- the way the radios sound
- the way the debris objects look and sound (the way nuka cola quantum looks)
- the way gunshots sound and guns are animated
- the way explosions sound
- the way "dismembering" sounds
- the way ghouls sound (which I personally find hilarious)
- the rag-dolling
- probably one the biggest is the explosion system; the way cars explode is *amazing*, but if you go into the editor there's actually a pretty robust explosion system. I used it for a "cherry bomb locks" mod I made. I just basically said "make an explosion of about this size with about this much smoke and this much noise, doing this much damage (none), centered on this object." I barely had to test it, it was almost perfect on the first try.
- the projectile system as well, the way you can see bullets whiz by but also *hear* them whiz by (or feel them hit you)
- the lighting system

so much of this is all so perfectly fine-tuned and so well made artistically. it's not easy to do that. I mean, it's really really hard to do that. it's so much more than saying "yeah the game has good sound".

the guys who made NV didn't get any of this at all. I remember fighting Caesar troops, and it was such a chore to down them. there was none of the satisfying aesthetics from the F3 combat, it felt like punching a brick wall.
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helIy posted...

sahagalaguin is right you know

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People actually listen to Bethesda games? I might do that for the first playthrough but once Ive done the main quest Im listening to music or podcasts while I play
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