Current Events > All it takes to make a sentient AI is to ask the Holodeck to make one

(+) Yeah! (+)

What were the TNG writers smoking? How the fuck is Data special?
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You mean Geordi's gf?
Man he got some tho
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P4wn4g3 posted...

You mean Geordi's gf?
Man he got some tho

He means Moriarty.
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Oh yeah. Those episodes were fucking dumb.
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Yeah, holodecks are more dangerous than phaser rifles. Remember when B'lanna nearly died because she took off the safety protocols during her suicidal deathwish?

You'd think that the safety protocols would be built in with a kill Switch to make it impossible to run the holodeck without them.
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IIRC, senior staff can over-ride safety protocols. In the episode, she uses the excuse that the safety protocols can get in the way when they are running simulations on experimental equipment, but that doesn't really make sense, either. Though given that she is explicitly lying about her reasoning, it may be a straight lie anyway.

The only reason you can disable safety protocols is so you can have sex with your holo waifu without a condom.
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Well, 9/10ths of Voyager was shit.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Well, 9/10ths of Voyager was shit.

The original topic was actually about TNG, but that's such an exaggeration. It had very few amazing episodes, but it had very few godawful episodes, either. It was just really unremarkable and 'safe'.

You brought up Be'lanna
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P4wn4g3 posted...

You brought up Be'lanna

I know, I'm just pointing out that the whole reason we are talking about it was because of shitty writing in TNG in the first place.

Yeah TNG had some pretty bad parts. It had some really good ones though so basically it made up for it. Besides you can just skip the Wesley and Barkley episodes.
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I mean something as simple as make someone who can beat data make a whole new life, that is just not a life but can see things other programs cannot.

However you guys think La Forge,went back and did stuff with the Hololady ?
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P4wn4g3 posted...

Yeah TNG had some pretty bad parts. It had some really good ones though so basically it made up for it. Besides you can just skip the Wesley and Barkley episodes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I liked Lieutenant Barclay. I thought he was an interesting character.
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cjsdowg posted...

However you guys think La Forge,went back and did stuff with the Hololady ?

Honestly, that's pretty much the rule. New technology, then we find a way to use it for sex. I always wondered how many people did that, and how it was looked at. The earlier shows hinted at it, but the holosuites in Quarks blatantly explained that it was normal. It was weird, though. People talked down about it frequently, but then it was also alluded to several times throughout the show, including with main characters like Riker.

So basically, I figure Star Trek attitudes towards holo-nookie are basically the same that we have towards pornography; everyone does it, but everyone also acts like they are against it in polite company.

P4wn4g3 posted...

Yeah TNG had some pretty bad parts. It had some really good ones though so basically it made up for it. Besides you can just skip the Wesley and Barkley episodes.

Yeah, for sure. The first two seasons are also pretty hit or miss, and the last one had some real dumb episodes. Really, though, that goes for all the Star Trek series. The only one I never watched was Enterprise because it was just awful. I heard it got better, but, ehhhhh.

Dash_Harber posted...

cjsdowg posted...

However you guys think La Forge,went back and did stuff with the Hololady ?

Honestly, that's pretty much the rule. New technology, then we find a way to use it for sex. I always wondered how many people did that, and how it was looked at. The earlier shows hinted at it, but the holosuites in Quarks blatantly explained that it was normal. It was weird, though. People talked down about it frequently, but then it was also alluded to several times throughout the show, including with main characters like Riker.

So basically, I figure Star Trek attitudes towards holo-nookie are basically the same that we have towards pornography; everyone does it, but everyone also acts like they are against it in polite company.

You are right lol. I remember Jake and Nog when to the Holosuits and the Sisco freaked out lol.
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cjsdowg posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

cjsdowg posted...

However you guys think La Forge,went back and did stuff with the Hololady ?

Honestly, that's pretty much the rule. New technology, then we find a way to use it for sex. I always wondered how many people did that, and how it was looked at. The earlier shows hinted at it, but the holosuites in Quarks blatantly explained that it was normal. It was weird, though. People talked down about it frequently, but then it was also alluded to several times throughout the show, including with main characters like Riker.

So basically, I figure Star Trek attitudes towards holo-nookie are basically the same that we have towards pornography; everyone does it, but everyone also acts like they are against it in polite company.

You are right lol. I remember Jake and Nog when to the Holosuits and the Sisco freaked out lol.

Which is sort of weird in hindsight, because Sisko actually frequented them a lot to simulate trips to the baseball game, and later, on Voyager, they showed there were holodeck programs specifically designed for kids (not to mention that I'm fairly certain Sisko and Jake were on a holodeck on the first episode, and that Worf frequently went to the holodeck with Alexander). Though, they never really clarify if there is much of a difference between holodecks and holosuites.

The holodeck was an interesting idea that was mostly used poorly. I get that it gave them the option to tell stories in a different setting, often something not so much about science fiction, but most people tuning in to see Star Trek want to see science fiction. And the holodeck malfunction story quickly became one of their most overused cliches.
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jpenny2 posted...

The holodeck was an interesting idea that was mostly used poorly. I get that it gave them the option to tell stories in a different setting, often something not so much about science fiction, but most people tuning in to see Star Trek want to see science fiction. And the holodeck malfunction story quickly became one of their most overused cliches.

"NEXT STOP, VERTERON CITY!"
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I don't think the holodeck really makes "sentient" AIs. It makes characters and has those characters react to the situations they encounter. The ship would really be the AI, acting as the writer for the characters.

Even Moriarty, IIRC, wasn't naturally created to be sentient. He was created to match Data. The computer interpreted this in a way that gave him access to the ship's computer. As he learned about his nature, the the holodeck, and the existence outside of it, that's when he crossed over into sentience.
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pegusus123456 posted...

I don't think the holodeck really makes "sentient" AIs. It makes characters and has those characters react to the situations they encounter. The ship would really be the AI, acting as the writer for the characters.

Even Moriarty, IIRC, wasn't naturally created to be sentient. He was created to match Data. The computer interpreted this in a way that gave him access to the ship's computer. As he learned about his nature, the the holodeck, and the existence outside of it, that's when he crossed over into sentience.

Moriarty was explicitly sentient, however. He was aware he was a hologram, he was aware of the passage of time and retained memories outside the program. He also was capable of existing independent of the computer/holodeck.

I know that, I just said he didn't become sentient until he began learning things from the computer <_<

He also couldn't exist independent of the computer/holodeck. This was the main plotline in both of his episodes.
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HashtagTartarus posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

Yeah TNG had some pretty bad parts. It had some really good ones though so basically it made up for it. Besides you can just skip the Wesley and Barkley episodes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I liked Lieutenant Barclay. I thought he was an interesting character.

Yeah I liked Barclay episodes too. I think his first episode is weak, but he is probably the most interestingly developed side character.

Also Wesley episodes were in-line with Gene Roddenberry's original vision of human potential. I bet if the rabid fanbase didn't chase him away, maybe Picard/Beverly relationship would've taken off before the last fucking episode
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pegusus123456 posted...

I know that, I just said he didn't become sentient until he began learning things from the computer <_<

He also couldn't exist independent of the computer/holodeck. This was the main plotline in both of his episodes.

I must be misremembering. I remember him on the brdge for some reason.

Anyway, the computer created a hologram capable of achieving sentience through interacting with the same computer. I feel like that is splitting hairs over whether or not a 'sentient hologram' was created.

I mean, the ship's computer is massive and state-of-the-art
Data is decades old and his computer fits in his head
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Dash_Harber posted...

I must be misremembering. I remember him on the brdge for some reason.

In his second episode, he argues that his own force of will can preserve him outside of the holodeck and seemingly leaves it successfully. "I think - therefore I am."

It turns out to be a trick. He expanded the holodeck program to mimic the entire ship with only Picard, Data, and Barclay (the ones inside it to begin with) being real.

Dash_Harber posted...

Anyway, the computer created a hologram capable of achieving sentience through interacting with the same computer. I feel like that is splitting hairs over whether or not a 'sentient hologram' was created.

A fair point. I s'pose you could argue that it's not just Data's intelligence that makes him notable, but the technology used to create a mechanical entity. Or his humanity if you wanna get all poetic about it.
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Sentient holograms was the biggest mistake Star Trek ever made. It breaks almost everything.

I always held a little animosity toward Voyager's EMH since he was basically the embodiment of all that.
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SpiralDrift posted...

Sentient holograms was the biggest mistake Star Trek ever made. It breaks almost everything.

I always held a little animosity toward Voyager's EMH since he was basically the embodiment of all that.

At least with the Doctor you have the excuse that he has 24th century technology that they don't really understand influencing him during most of his character development. Before he got the mobile emitter, he was more of a background character who occasionally got featured for an episode.

Either way, you are right, though. The idea of sentient holograms raises all sorts of unfortunate implications and head-scratchers.

Dash_Harber posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

Sentient holograms was the biggest mistake Star Trek ever made. It breaks almost everything.

I always held a little animosity toward Voyager's EMH since he was basically the embodiment of all that.

At least with the Doctor you have the excuse that he has 24th century technology that they don't really understand influencing him during most of his character development. Before he got the mobile emitter, he was more of a background character who occasionally got featured for an episode.

Either way, you are right, though. The idea of sentient holograms raises all sorts of unfortunate implications and head-scratchers.

Yeah, the mobile emitter being future tech is the best way to explain it, but it seems even the writers forgot about it and just started writing all holograms as potentially sentient. This may have just been due to the Doctor's popularity but I kind of doubt it.
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SpiralDrift posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

Sentient holograms was the biggest mistake Star Trek ever made. It breaks almost everything.

I always held a little animosity toward Voyager's EMH since he was basically the embodiment of all that.

At least with the Doctor you have the excuse that he has 24th century technology that they don't really understand influencing him during most of his character development. Before he got the mobile emitter, he was more of a background character who occasionally got featured for an episode.

Either way, you are right, though. The idea of sentient holograms raises all sorts of unfortunate implications and head-scratchers.

Yeah, the mobile emitter being future tech is the best way to explain it, but it seems even the writers forgot about it and just started writing all holograms as potentially sentient. This may have just been due to the Doctor's popularity but I kind of doubt it.

Yeah, definitely. Voyager also had a bunch of other experimental technology that could have had weird effects too, like the bio-gel packs. That sort of gets undone by the fact that they show holograms outside of Voyager as having the potential to be sentient as well.