Current Events > What exactly do liberals want to be done with the illegal immigrants?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I would like legalizing them while increasing border security. The ones who are here will become legal residents unless they have criminal records. They won't become citizens immediately but legal residents. And then you announce a time period or date. And anyone who comes after that illegally can't come in.

You can't just let everyone into a country. It's tough. Especially from a disease stand point. You can't let contagious people go unchecked. It's a hard process. But part of it would get solved if they made legal immigration easier. It's really not an easy process. Or a consistent one.

My friend came over when she was young. Her parents were going to become citizens then 9/11 happened. So they changed things. And until this day they still aren't citizens. We can't have a bad legal process and not expect folks to come illegally.
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TomNook20 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

TomNook20 posted...

You don't think a mass influx of people would affect wages or job opportunities?

So I state my opinion, and you just keep deflecting by asking other questions and putting words in my mouth?

Anyway, from the research I read, there are short terms downsides, but the longterm effects are far, far more beneficial. As far as wages go, the only reason it drives down wages now is that the immigrants face barriers to integrate, meaning they have to work under the table and therefore can't demand minimum wage. If those barriers are relaxed, they don't have to work illegally and undercut everyone else. The initial shock balances out pretty quickly, though.

As for job opportunities, research indicates that the jobs they take are mostly the ones that locals don't want to work and therefore it frees them up to pursue higher education and better job opportunities. Effectively, everyone moves up.

Here's a good rundown;
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

Why the rage? I was just interested on your thoughts on the consequences of open borders. Not sure why asking your opinion is so outrageous.

What rage? I think you are having trouble understanding me.

First, the questions you asked implied that I was saying things that I wasn't. I was just hoping to correct you on that because it appeared that you were attempting to strawman me.

Second, I pointed out my views rather calmly and succinctly. I stated what I felt and an example of the facts and research that I was basing this off of.

Finally, trying to say that I was 'enraged' or emotionally unstable is a logical fallacy. Even if I was, which I think most would agree does not appear to be the case, it doesn't change whether my arguments are right or wrong. To put it bluntly, stop trying to derail what I'm saying by trying to paint me as emotionally perturbed when we are using a medium that does not convey emotion and no emotion was explicitly stated.

DifferentialEquation posted...

FrisbeeDude posted...

"Hispanics are largely conservative socially, so good luck selling them on your identity politics, SJWs"

Also the alt right:

"They just want illegals in so they'll vote Democrat"

No one has ever said the first.

However, a lot of Mexican Americans are Christians. So as the left becomes more and more brazen about making Sharia the supreme law of the land, they will lose their support.

Well Frisbee just did and he probably is gonna claim to be a Conservative to make it true. XD
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Dash_Harber posted...

What rage? I think you are having trouble understanding me.

Quite the opposite. I was merely asking for your thoughts on common objections to your position. Sorry if you took it any other way, but they were genuine questions as I don't often see people defend that position. I thought your answers were pretty good, which again is why I'm confused as to why you're attacking me. I'm not even arguing with you, simply asking for your thoughts on an issue.
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TomNook20 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

What rage? I think you are having trouble understanding me.

Quite the opposite. I was merely asking for your thoughts on common objections to your position. Sorry if you took it any other way, but they were genuine questions as I don't often see people defend that position. I thought your answers were pretty good, which again is why I'm confused as to why you're attacking me. I'm not even arguing with you, simply asking for your thoughts on an issue.

I'm not attacking you. I fail to see anywhere that I even implied I was trying to attack you.

The reason your questions appeared to be poorly worded strawmen was that they weren't questions in the sense that you were genuinely asking me to explain my position but instead relied on you coming up with some stereotype and asking me to agree that it was what I believed.

I really can't emphasize enough how there is no rage or attack even remotely implied in anything I've written here.

Ok guess we just both misinterpreted each other then. I certainly was not trying to strawman you, given as I said I wasn't even arguing with you. Anyway thanks for the answer.
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TomNook20 posted...

Ok guess we just both misinterpreted each other then. I certainly was not trying to strawman you, given as I said I wasn't even arguing with you. Anyway thanks for the answer.

I mean, I wasn't misinterpreting you, I was just pointing out how your posts looked and how you were weirdly asserting that I believed things I didn't say out of the blue, but alright then.

Welp, I completely disagree on that, but arguing about a non existent argument doesn't sound like a good use of either of our time. Enjoy your night.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Amnesty, and the opportunity to call everyone else racist nazis along the way.

DifferentialEquation posted...

They want families that enter the country illegally to be given a free home and a yearly 6 figure stipend at the taxpayers' expense.

Kazi1212 posted...

MelbuFrahma4 posted...

Amnesty and to become citizens. Then they can vote democrat. If this happens RIP republicans chances of becoming president again.

Basically. Dems just wants their votes so they can stay in power forever, pretty genius evil plan by them.

all of this.

Dash_Harber posted...

If they aren't committing any other crimes? Nothing. All research points out that immigration is a massive boon to the economy and integration is incredibly painless. After like a generation, they are completely indistinguishable from everyone else. Not only that, but North America is philosophically founded on immigration, so it seems weird to suddenly make some sort of argument that people coming here for a better opportunity are some how wrong.

people like you have such a terrible grasp on reality it is scary.

Yeah Dems oppose separating children from their families because they want votes. Conservatism is a mental disease.
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Deport them together

As to the people saying we should let them stay or get rid of immigration laws -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE" data-time="

We don't have enough room or resources.
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Bad_Mojo posted...

We don't have enough room or resources.

Sure we do.
Open up sponsorships for non-related immigrants, and let anyone sign an affidavit of support for anyone else.

something other than putting their children in concentration camps
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Holy shit.

People are legit proposing no more immigration.

This country is fucked.
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KronoCloud posted...

Holy shit.

People are legit proposing no more immigration.

This country is fucked.

the republican party is advocating a white ethnostate and many of their supporters would be completely okay with genocide of minorities. they talk about it pretty casually.
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TomNook20 posted...

Welp, I completely disagree on that, but arguing about a non existent argument doesn't sound like a good use of either of our time. Enjoy your night.

You too.

kayoticdreamz posted...

people like you have such a terrible grasp on reality it is scary.

I get it, you have no actual argument to make so you have to just try and insult me to rile me up. It's weak trolling.

DifferentialEquation posted...

So as the left becomes more and more brazen about making Sharia the supreme law of the land

What.
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It's more so the implicit bias in how we perceive immigrants that unsettles me.

I've encountered a fair number of eastern european immigrants who overstayed a visa, speak broken english, and yet never get questioned on their legal status. Meanwhile I've had Hispanic friends whose families have been U.S. citizens for longer than my family have. They get the "papers, please" treatment meanwhile I've never been asked despite being a first generation American.

The difference is I'm white.

A disproportionate amount of the immigration issue is fixated on what is largely a race issue, regardless of what people are willing to admit. Because a large subset of illegal immigrants are essentially being ignored.

Also, people who support dream act students don't necessary agree with open immigration. I just don't think children who were brought by their parents' authority and grow up here ought to be kicked out. We've already invested in their public education and culturally they are very much American. It seems like such a waste of economic resources to not give them the resources to attend college and become productive, tax-paying citizens. People will argue "american students first", but fuck that. Conservatives are all about the free market. Let's have a "free market" for labor and have some of these students with amazing potential be given an opportunity to become American. I'm not interested in a privileged welfare based on the arbitrary fact of where someone was born. Remember when America took the best scientists from all over the world? When we were actually great?

You can include some requirement such as a term of military service or mandatory work in public sector for "x" number of years to extend citizenship to immediate family so as to not separate college aged dreamers from their family. And we also get to "keep" the ones with more potential.

That exception doesn't mean I'm for totally open immigration.
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The23rdMagus posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

So as the left becomes more and more brazen about making Sharia the supreme law of the land

What.

DE's gimmick is to be as outlandish as possible. Don't encourage him.
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metralo posted...

KronoCloud posted...

Holy shit.

People are legit proposing no more immigration.

This country is fucked.

the republican party is advocating a white ethnostate and many of their supporters would be completely okay with genocide of minorities. they talk about it pretty casually.

Lol, do you actually believe that nonsense youre saying
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KronoCloud posted...

Holy shit.

People are legit proposing no more immigration.

This country is fucked.

why can liberals not understand that america just cannot keep supporting the entire third world moving in here? go watch the goofy gumball video. it proves the point excellently. there is not one single country on this planet that can sustain what america is doing with immigration which is allowing a million people to enter this country each year. that is just not sustainable under any way shape or form. that will literally kill america.

conservatives just want a halt on the damn immigration thing for a while so we can deal with who's here.

and also....

BlameAnesthesia posted...

Remember when America took the best scientists from all over the world? When we were actually great?

this

immigration used to make some kind of sense....now it's basically show up at the door, and knock and you get let in or worse, just sneak in and no one cares, and if we try to deport you rest assured the liberal media will call you a bigot and a racist and a xenophobe. so go right ahead and break our laws, because who gives a shit?

I know myself being a good liberal, i sleep with the door unlocked in the ghetto right between all my amazing diverse neighbors. I also don't carry a gun in the house to defend myself. nothing bad has happened yet! wish me luck! /sacrasm

but really....if liberals want open borders so bad i do hope they do exactly what i said in that sarcastic statement of mine because thats exactly what they advocate for politically.

voldothegr8 posted...

FrisbeeDude posted...

"Hispanics are largely conservative socially, so good luck selling them on your identity politics, SJWs"

Also the alt right:

"They just want illegals in so they'll vote Democrat"

I've literally never seen that first one posted before.

Same, never seen the first argument a day in my life.

fire adept posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

FrisbeeDude posted...

"Hispanics are largely conservative socially, so good luck selling them on your identity politics, SJWs"

Also the alt right:

"They just want illegals in so they'll vote Democrat"

I've literally never seen that first one posted before.

Same, never seen the first argument a day in my life.

I've seen it when the conversation is about Cubans in Florida.
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BlameAnesthesia posted...

It's more so the implicit bias in how we perceive immigrants that unsettles me.

I've encountered a fair number of eastern european immigrants who overstayed a visa, speak broken english, and yet never get questioned on their legal status. Meanwhile I've had Hispanic friends whose families have been U.S. citizens for longer than my family have. They get the "papers, please" treatment meanwhile I've never been asked despite being a first generation American.

The difference is I'm white.

A disproportionate amount of the immigration issue is fixated on what is largely a race issue, regardless of what people are willing to admit. Because a large subset of illegal immigrants are essentially being ignored.

Also, people who support dream act students don't necessary agree with open immigration. I just don't think children who were brought by their parents' authority and grow up here ought to be kicked out. We've already invested in their public education and culturally they are very much American. It seems like such a waste of economic resources to not give them the resources to attend college and become productive, tax-paying citizens. People will argue "american students first", but fuck that. Conservatives are all about the free market. Let's have a "free market" for labor and have some of these students with amazing potential be given an opportunity to become American. I'm not interested in a privileged welfare based on the arbitrary fact of where someone was born. Remember when America took the best scientists from all over the world? When we were actually great?

You can include some requirement such as a term of military service or mandatory work in public sector for "x" number of years to extend citizenship to immediate family so as to not separate college aged dreamers from their family. And we also get to "keep" the ones with more potential.

That exception doesn't mean I'm for totally open immigration.

Agree with this post. Anyone who qualifies for the daca should be able to become a citizen imo. They've grown up here, contributed to the country, and are willing to be productive citizens. It seems like it would take more money and effort to kick them all out to their countries of origin that they know nothing about.

I am all for kicking out tge thieves and violent criminals, and don't believe in open borders. Just keep the families together when they're caught.
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KronoCloud posted...

Holy shit.

People are legit proposing no more immigration.

This country is fucked.

Immigration is good.

Unchecked immigration is bad

mmkay?
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kayoticdreamz posted...

I know myself being a good liberal, i sleep with the door unlocked in the ghetto right between all my amazing diverse neighbors. I also don't carry a gun in the house to defend myself. nothing bad has happened yet! wish me luck! /sacrasm

I do, no sarcasm, although I don't think the analogy is at all a good one in the first place
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well I do own a shotgun but I havent had any shells or slugs for it for years
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They want open borders
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