Current Events > Here we go again. Stars blame sexism on Ocean's 8 lukewarm reviews

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is rich coming from the group well known for divvying cultures up. They'll tell you black people are more prone to crime, illiteracy, and illegitimacy, and then will suggest that a white man and a black woman should have the exact same opinion on any given movie.
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Imagine publicly saying that white people are incapable of having different perspectives from one another, and then trying to backpeddle and claim that other people are racist towards groups.

top kek
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CyricZ posted...

This is rich coming from the group well known for divvying cultures up. They'll tell you black people are more prone to crime, illiteracy, and illegitimacy, and then will suggest that a white man and a black woman should have the exact same opinion on any given movie.

True colours shown.
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CyricZ posted...

This is rich coming from the group well known for divvying cultures up. They'll tell you black people are more prone to crime, illiteracy, and illegitimacy, and then will suggest that a white man and a black woman should have the exact same opinion on any given movie.

lmfao he can't hep it

WHY ARE YOU A WHITE MALE SAYING WHITE MALES HAVE THE SAME OPINION WHEN YOU SHOW OTHERWISE

Riddle me that oh great so claimed doctor science
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thugs
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KingKongKnows posted...

CyricZ posted...

This is rich coming from the group well known for divvying cultures up. They'll tell you black people are more prone to crime, illiteracy, and illegitimacy, and then will suggest that a white man and a black woman should have the exact same opinion on any given movie.

lmfao he can't hep it

WHY ARE YOU A WHITE MALE SAYING WHITE MALES HAVE THE SAME OPINION WHEN YOU SHOW OTHERWISE

Riddle me that oh great so claimed doctor science

I'm pretty sure he isn't a doctor or a scientist. Dude literally just skirts around anti-white SJW rhetoric on CE every day.
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hes claimed hes one
or atl east has

hes the hugger guy that was obsessed with white knighting cegals as a mod right??
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KingKongKnows posted...

hes claimed hes one
or atl east has

hes the hugger guy that was obsessed with white knighting cegals as a mod right??

yep. i would be extremely surprised if cyric is actually a doctor or a scientist

maybe he meant "scientist" because he studied something worthless like sociology or w/e
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KingKongKnows posted...

hes claimed hes one
or atl east has

hes the hugger guy that was obsessed with white knighting cegals as a mod right??

I heard he used to hit on some pretty young ones too. Literal 13 year olds. Racist and a filthy pedo.
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YourDrunkFather posted...

KingKongKnows posted...

hes claimed hes one
or atl east has

hes the hugger guy that was obsessed with white knighting cegals as a mod right??

I heard he used to hit on some pretty young ones too. Literal 13 year olds. Racist and a filthy pedo.

uh unless you have strong evidence of this i wouldnt go this far, the dude is already doing enough to his own brand, no need for baseless accusations about pedophilia. that just dilutes the legitimate accusations when someone really is a pedo.
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This really just shows how insular this little cabal is.

"Hey white men have totally different views! I like butts and my buddy likes boobs! There is NOTHING in history to suggest that black people, women, Muslims, Hispanics, Asian people could have massively different perspectives based on their upbringing and culture, that a group of white men can't replicate."

Do you even listen to yourselves?

Seriously. I know you guys never leave the house, but you must have spoken to a black person or a woman at least once, right?
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YourDrunkFather posted...

I heard he used to hit on some pretty young ones too

i heard you used to beat up old black ladies for fun

see thats not okay to do. you don't need to make stuff up. it's wrong. he's already proven he thinks all white males are the same
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it's like that sometimes man ridiculous
life can be so damn ridiculous
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CyricZ posted...

This really just shows how insular this little cabal is.

"Hey white men have totally different views! I like butts and my buddy likes boobs! There is NOTHING in history to suggest that black people, women, Muslims, Hispanics, Asian people could have massively different perspectives based on their upbringing and culture, that a group of white men can't replicate."

Do you even listen to yourselves?

Seriously. I know you guys never leave the house, but you must have spoken to a black person or a woman at least once, right?

what is the difference between black people and black women cause you made an attempt to differ them
but furthermore doctor science man tell me why you have a different opinion to other white males but then say all white males are the same
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Our movie was the best movie ever. If you dont like it you are definitely Nazis.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

YourDrunkFather posted...

KingKongKnows posted...

hes claimed hes one
or atl east has

hes the hugger guy that was obsessed with white knighting cegals as a mod right??

I heard he used to hit on some pretty young ones too. Literal 13 year olds. Racist and a filthy pedo.

uh unless you have strong evidence of this i wouldnt go this far, the dude is already doing enough to his own brand, no need for baseless accusations about pedophilia. that just dilutes the legitimate accusations when someone really is a pedo.

Someone brought it up in a topic he was embarrassing himself in yesterday and he didn't deny it...just ignored it. Not proof but definitely not a good look either
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CyricZ posted...

This really just shows how insular this little cabal is.

"Hey white men have totally different views! I like butts and my buddy likes boobs! There is NOTHING in history to suggest that black people, women, Muslims, Hispanics, Asian people could have massively different perspectives based on their upbringing and culture, that a group of white men can't replicate."

Do you even listen to yourselves?

Seriously. I know you guys never leave the house, but you must have spoken to a black person or a woman at least once, right?

literally melting down and doubling down on the racism and sexism lmfao.

"white men all think the same. theyre incapable of massively different perspectives based on their upbringing and culture"

fuck off dude
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KingKongKnows posted...

all white males are the same

Never said that. Your interpretation. I'm saying there's value in diverse criticism in media based on culture and you're saying "Nah man white dudes got this."
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scar the 1 posted...

Regardless of the reviews, it's quite a fair point that white men make up 80% of the critics, no?

Not really. That shouldn't honestly even be a job. How can a person's opinion of a movie matter more than anyone else's?
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CyricZ posted...

KingKongKnows posted...

all white males are the same

Never said that. Your interpretation. I'm saying there's value in diverse criticism in media based on culture and you're saying "Nah man white dudes got this."

"All whites have the same culture and are incapable of unique diverse criticisms and perspectives in media" - @CyricZ

"Stop being racist/sexist!!!1!1!1" - Also @CyricZ

lmao
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CyricZ posted...

KingKongKnows posted...

all white males are the same

Never said that. Your interpretation. I'm saying there's value in diverse criticism in media based on culture and you're saying "Nah man white dudes got this."

'i never said that but here's what you didn't say but i'll pretend you said anyway'

the amazing doctor science man ladies and gentlemen or is it black people and ladies because for some reason doctor science man thinks to differ between black ladies and black people in his previous posts
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Howl posted...

scar the 1 posted...

Regardless of the reviews, it's quite a fair point that white men make up 80% of the critics, no?

Not really. That shouldn't honestly even be a job. How can a person's opinion of a movie matter more than anyone else's?

close your account please
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KingKongKnows posted...

Just out of curiosity, whose recently banned account is this so I know who I'm actually addressing.
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i don't talk to people with racist opinions sorry
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Seriously? I thought you types think of it as a badge of honor to get banned over and over again. Really shows how you figured out the system.
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scar the 1 posted...

Howl posted...

scar the 1 posted...

Regardless of the reviews, it's quite a fair point that white men make up 80% of the critics, no?

Not really. That shouldn't honestly even be a job. How can a person's opinion of a movie matter more than anyone else's?

close your account please

No
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That came out?
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Saving this topic, it's too good.
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CyricZ posted...

Esrac posted...

That's bullshit, because all white men don't all have the same perspective. You're coming very close to pushing some kind of racial and gender monolithic essentialism.

Okay, so let's look at the other end, the one you're pushing.

Here in a booth we have two white men.

Here in another booth we have a white man and, let's say for simplicity, a white woman.

Are you seriously going to tell me that the differences in perspectives between the two booths are negligible?

I think it depends on the personal experiences and dispositions of the individual men and women in the booths. The perspectives of the two white men could have significantly more variance than the perspectives of the man and woman.

Instead, let's put PZ Meyers in one booth with Alex Jones.

Then put Ivanka and Eric Trump in the other booth.

I'd wager the perspectives of Ivanka and Eric are a lot closer than PZ and Alex.
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CyricZ posted...

This really just shows how insular this little cabal is.

"Hey white men have totally different views! I like butts and my buddy likes boobs! There is NOTHING in history to suggest that black people, women, Muslims, Hispanics, Asian people could have massively different perspectives based on their upbringing and culture, that a group of white men can't replicate."

Do you even listen to yourselves?

Seriously. I know you guys never leave the house, but you must have spoken to a black person or a woman at least once, right?

Do you listen to yourself? You're arguing that individuals within similar demographics are going to have the same perspectives. Presumably because you think there is something essential about those demographics that gear them all to the same perspective.

There is enough variation among individuals to lead people within similar demographics to radically different perspectives. You might not intend to, but you're communicating the idea that those demographics are monolithic.
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Wait so Oceans' 8 having poor reviews is responsible for sexism?
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Esrac posted...

I think it depends on the personal experiences and dispositions of the individual men and women in the booths. The perspectives of the two white men could have significantly more variance than the perspectives of the man and woman.

Instead, let's put PZ Meyers in one booth with Alex Jones.

Then put Ivanka and Eric Trump in the other booth.

I'd wager the perspectives of Ivanka and Eric are a lot closer than PZ and Alex.

Yes, in that example, obviously there would be a greater difference in the two men. That said, your example is a little disingenuous, because the man and woman are brother and sister, but I get your point. Substitute Eric Trump for... say Rudy Giulani, or whatever.

The point of that exercise, which I admit is pretty rough, was to suggest that until you've engaged with people who come from very different places than you, whether it's gender or race, you don't really get how much different their life experiences are from you than someone from the same race/gender/etc. It took me a long time and a lot of frank conversations for a white boy who grew up in NH to understand how different those experiences could be, and for some folk to suggest "Nah, it's probably similar" given what I know of some of these people is, well...

Furthermore, if you look at the critic base of movies, they're not really broken down by region and socioeconomic position. They're largely liberal and focused around urban areas. So if you were to suggest, hey, rural conservatives are different from urban liberals, yeah, that's true, but let's be honest: how many conservative rural movie critics do you know?
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"Omg white people!"

Stay butthurt snowflakes
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Maybe producers should actually have the balls to make an all new IP for a female team to make famous instead of putting them on the shoulders of men who already did all the hard work.

"[X title] but now it's all women because we're totally progressive guys!" Those movies will always suck and always be hated for good reason
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CyricZ posted...

The point of that exercise, which I admit is pretty rough, was to suggest that until you've engaged with people who come from very different places than you, whether it's gender or race, you don't really get how much different their life experiences are from you

Unless they're white, in which case you can just assume their experiences are all the same. Right?
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CyricZ posted...

Furthermore, if you look at the critic base of movies, they're not really broken down by region and socioeconomic position.

It is illogical to assume that every type of work will be broken down into a perfect ratio of region, socioeconomic position, race, sex, favorite sexual position, favorite fetish, etc. This is a delusional expectation that doesn't match reality.

In the freest societies, you still don't get naturally forming quotas based on immutable characteristics.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

CyricZ posted...

The point of that exercise, which I admit is pretty rough, was to suggest that until you've engaged with people who come from very different places than you, whether it's gender or race, you don't really get how much different their life experiences are from you

Unless they're white, in which case you can just assume their experiences are all the same. Right?

What makes his stupid argument even more hilarious is that he thinks a diverse group of critics would've rated the movie better even though that same diverse group all have different perspectives lol

Man sjw's are sad
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none of the oceans movies are very good, even the first one but -especially- not the sequels. i dunno why anyone would expect the others to be
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

It is illogical to assume that every type of work will be broken down into a perfect ratio

Proud, this is the only time I intend to address you in this topic.

For every other type of work I'd agree with you.

But not for criticism and evaluation of media and entertainment.

In that venue more than any other, I think it's essential we get as much of a breadth of perspectives as possible, because media and entertainment are a reflection of our own global culture and individual cultures. They re-imagine experiences and reproduce them for our own mental processing. They're based on the idea of getting to our emotional centers and figuring out what works to get us entertained. For that, I think it's worth going outside the lines a bit and while I'm not looking for a mathematical distribution, I think we can do better than 80% white urban liberal men.
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CyricZ posted...

Proud, this is the only time I intend to address you in this topic.

Shut the fuck up, you are not some reasonable beacon. You are unreasonable and your view has been sufficiently destroyed by multiple people. Get off the high horse for once.
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CyricZ posted...

In that venue more than any other, I think it's essential we get as much of a breadth of perspectives as possible, because media and entertainment are a reflection of our own global culture and individual cultures. They re-imagine experiences and reproduce them for our own mental processing. They're based on the idea of getting to our emotional centers and figuring out what works to get us entertained.

You are literally still arguing that whites are not capable of having a breadth of perspectives, and that other races are inherently varied in their perspectives. That is racist and sexist. You haven't even given any specific examples of movie rating criteria and how race/gender matters.
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16-BITTER posted...

You do not need to have deep life experiences or a rich cultural acumen to review movies, you just have to have watched a lot of movies.

Maybe not how you describe it, but regardless, we are all part of the human experience, so you can't help but get people critiquing movies have had *some* life experience and apply those experiences to what and how they view. As I said earlier, "Get Out" in particular spoke to a large number of black Americans, and even struck some white Americans as to certain aspects of the black American experience the way that movies don't typically go.

Consider if the subject was video games; having come from a black, white, female, male, Asian, transgender or whatever background would have little impact on if you think the combat sucks or if the graphics were good, only the other games you've played would influence your opinion. Maybe the story would affect you on different ways depending on your relation to the main character, but just as in movies, the story isn't everything.

The story is certainly a greater aspect in films than it is in video games, but even how that story is presented can have an effect. Cinematography and direction have their own contributions to the story in the way they're utilized.

16-BITTER posted...

I think you're elevating film criticism beyond what it deserves.

Well, that's your opinion. All I know is that I've watched some pretty good critiques over the past decade or so that make me think and learn about movies with a lot more scrutiny as an adult than I did back in school.
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CyricZ posted...

Esrac posted...

I think it depends on the personal experiences and dispositions of the individual men and women in the booths. The perspectives of the two white men could have significantly more variance than the perspectives of the man and woman.

Instead, let's put PZ Meyers in one booth with Alex Jones.

Then put Ivanka and Eric Trump in the other booth.

I'd wager the perspectives of Ivanka and Eric are a lot closer than PZ and Alex.

Yes, in that example, obviously there would be a greater difference in the two men. That said, your example is a little disingenuous, because the man and woman are brother and sister, but I get your point. Substitute Eric Trump for... say Rudy Giulani, or whatever.

The point of that exercise, which I admit is pretty rough, was to suggest that until you've engaged with people who come from very different places than you, whether it's gender or race, you don't really get how much different their life experiences are from you than someone from the same race/gender/etc. It took me a long time and a lot of frank conversations for a white boy who grew up in NH to understand how different those experiences could be, and for some folk to suggest "Nah, it's probably similar" given what I know of some of these people is, well...

Furthermore, if you look at the critic base of movies, they're not really broken down by region and socioeconomic position. They're largely liberal and focused around urban areas. So if you were to suggest, hey, rural conservatives are different from urban liberals, yeah, that's true, but let's be honest: how many conservative rural movie critics do you know?

I deliberately chose the Trump siblings because their siblings and likely had similar upbringings that would give them similar perspectives despite their differing sex. Compared to the other booth that has a far right conspiracy theorist and a far left atheist who are both white men. To emphasis that there are more important factors in determining perspective than race and gender.

Yes, there is a lot of overlap regarding movie critics being urban liberals. So, are you ready to go to bat for the fledgling rural conservative movie critic? Should we see a bigger push for the perspectives of poor, rural, conservative white males in movie criticism? Are they a less valuable perspective than, say, the urban, liberal, upper middle class asian woman? Compared to an urban, liberal, upper middle class white man?

What I'm trying to get at is they're clamoring for the perspectives of women or people of color as if those are the primary variables to influence perspectives. When, I think, you can still get remarkably different perspectives within the same racial and gender demographics by accounting for other factors. A white man who grew up poor in a trailer park in Mississippi is probably going to have a different perspective than a white man who grew up wealthy in New York. And that's just within the United States. Will a white man born and raised in Africa have the same perspective as a white man born and raised in Soviet Russia?

FLUFFYGERM posted...

CyricZ posted...

The point of that exercise, which I admit is pretty rough, was to suggest that until you've engaged with people who come from very different places than you, whether it's gender or race, you don't really get how much different their life experiences are from you

Unless they're white, in which case you can just assume their experiences are all the same. Right?

Be fair to him. He at least acknowledges that there are differences between, say, urban liberal whites and rural conservative whites.
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Esrac posted...

Be fair to him. He at least acknowledges that there are differences between, say, urban liberal whites and rural conservative whites.

I'm not convinced he does. He just wants brownie points for pretending to bash the liberal whites since he thinks we are that conservative that it matters to us that he's attacking white LIBERALS lol
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Esrac posted...

What I'm trying to get at is they're clamoring for the perspectives of women or people of color as if those are the primary variables to influence perspectives.

I'd argue, and have argued, that they're a greater aspect to focus on for diversity in the field.

But I can only cite my own experiences and those aforementioned frank conversations.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

He just wants brownie points

From who? We're the only ones in this topic.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Esrac posted...

Be fair to him. He at least acknowledges that there are differences between, say, urban liberal whites and rural conservative whites.

I'm not convinced he does. He just wants brownie points for pretending to bash the liberal whites since he thinks we are that conservative that it matters to us what their skin color is.

What brownie points? From who? He wasn't bashing liberal whites in that post. He isn't even pretending to.

If you think he is being dishonest with his posts, then why are you even trying to argue against his statements? There would clearly be no point to the dispute if you assume his statements are deliberately made in bad faith.
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CyricZ posted...

Esrac posted...

What I'm trying to get at is they're clamoring for the perspectives of women or people of color as if those are the primary variables to influence perspectives.

I'd argue, and have argued, that they're a greater aspect to focus on for diversity in the field.

But I can only cite my own experiences and those aforementioned frank conversations.

Do you think poor blacks in Baltimore and upper middle class blacks in Brooklyn are going to have the same perspectives on the The Wire as they would The Cosby Show just because they're black?

I would doubt it. As a poor white guy in Louisiana, I wouldn't presume to have the same perspective as a rich white guy in California.
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Esrac posted...

Do you think poor blacks in Baltimore and upper middle class blacks in Brooklyn are going to have the same perspectives on the The Wire as they would The Cosby Show just because they're black?

I would doubt it. As a poor white guy in Louisiana, I wouldn't presume to have the same perspective as a rich white guy in California.

No of course not. I'm just saying that if we're looking for truly diverse opinions in critique, focus more on race, gender, and culture, less on different flavors of white. :-P
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