Poll of the Day > Americans of PotD: If Trump goes for re-election in 2020, will you vote for him?

(+) Yeah! (+)

SushiSquid posted...

DPsx7 posted...

Do us a favor and take your social justice BS to another part of the world.

Here's a hint: if you're arguing against social justice, that's how you know you're the bad guy.

Oh, no no. Social justice is a group of online trolls who litter the internet with senseless BS. So many 'non problems' turned into a freaking circus because you think someone, I dunno, didn't fill your cup all the way so they're a racist.

The US would be stronger if we allowed the hard working migrants from other countries and deported the SJW's instead. All of them. I have no respect for these kinds of people. You're not solving anything, you're CREATING trouble.

WTF are you even talking about

Sounds like some petty bullshit to be so mad over that you'll just ignore the actual social justice issues, like what's going on with immigrant families. You're a disgusting human being

Sorry but, while I'm not fond of Hillary (too much baggage), Sanders (too idealistic) or even Biden (?), Trump's lewd, rude, crude and I don't like the way his mother dresses him (or is it Melania?). He's the manifestation of everything people in foreign countries despise about Americans; the ugly American incarnate. Every time he opens his mouth I have an irresistible desire to shove a pacifier or baby bottle in it; so I wouldn't vote for Trump even if he was the only candidate on the ballot.

Chewster posted...

WTF are you even talking about

Sounds like some petty bullshit to be so mad over that you'll just ignore the actual social justice issues, like what's going on with immigrant families. You're a disgusting human being

And you should be banned. There are no actual issues, it's all ridiculous stuff that people whine about online. Racism, sexism, gender this or that, GET a LIFE already and stop making issues where none exist.

It's so bad that if there were a real issue it wouldn't be seen. Don't act all preachy to me, you guys know you're wrong. But because of the power of stupid people in large groups you 'think' you matter and anyone that doesn't agree with you is somehow the problem. On a side note that's another issue with the lot of you. Nobody takes responsibility for what they screw up. It's always someone else's fault. Young people go to college but don't want to work so they go into debt and beg for handouts. They insist they need those damned phones for $200+ a month then wonder why they have no savings.

I could go on and on but you're probably not going to care... Let's just say social justice can shove it.

Im not affected by this issue so it isnt real
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DPsx7 posted...

There are no actual issues, it's all ridiculous stuff that people whine about online.

what
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Do I really need to explain? What's that troll's name with the gun rights crap? He disagreed with someone and started a fiasco online to steal her advertising or something. He belongs in the dump.

Gun rights? Yeah it's like DRM - you're only going to harm legit customers. The 'bad guys' don't give a damn what your laws say. In other words you're all wasting your time.

A comedian makes a joke about some fool, she loses her show. Some equally unfunny moron who thrives on Trump jokes makes a joke about someone who isn't Trump, she only has to apologize.

I do my best to ignore this stuff because it's so idiotic but it makes its way online and all I can say is what is wrong with these people? Everyone needs to sit down, shut up, and worry about their own damn lives instead of making a mess for everyone else to deal with. Trump is just some guy with a job so let him do it. You don't have to vote for anyone if you don't want to but lines like "I won't because I'm not an idiot" pretty much indicate you are since you don't have an excuse other than "I wanna be popular on FB too".

You're legit insane.
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There gets to be a point where an issue far exceeds the perceived pettiness of SJWs and becomes, simply, a matter of human right or civility. Anyone's inability to agree or grasp with this is not the ability to disprove it, but rather the ability to prove that they are an ass, at best.

Ripping children from their families, with or without the intent to deter immigration, especially in a land built on the mere idea of immigrants being welcome? Evil and stupid; it's nothing short of that.
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PuddingBoy posted...

You're legit insane.

Translation: You're the problem and either don't know or don't care.

Entity13 posted...

There gets to be a point where an issue far exceeds the perceived pettiness of SJWs and becomes, simply, a matter of human right or civility. Anyone's inability to agree or grasp with this is not the ability to disprove it, but rather the ability to prove that they are an ass, at best.

Ripping children from their families, with or without the intent to deter immigration, especially in a land built on the mere idea of immigrants being welcome? Evil and stupid; it's nothing short of that.

The US doesn't have infinite resources. We have enough problems to take care of without throwing more people on top. Use the legal methods or just stop. It sounds harsh but the problem was brought on by themselves.

Don't even try to play any of your victim cards. I'm not against these people personally. Put it this way, would you keep inviting endless people into your home? Despite your best intentions you run out of space and supplies, creating trouble in the process.

DPsx7 posted...

The US doesn't have infinite resources.

No, it doesn't. In fact it's quite in debt due to lots of spending in places with little to no return, such as actions of war.

DPsx7 posted...

We have enough problems to take care of without throwing more people on top. Use the legal methods or just stop. It sounds harsh but the problem was brought on by themselves.

This isn't as simple as you may or may not think you're making it sound.

One of our problems is people giving up on the workforce as the minimum wage falls further and further behind anything resembling a living wage - also, yes, it was supposed to be the bare minimum to help people live off of one job.

One of our problems is, additionally, that many of the jobs we do have to offer people are jobs that no one wants. The immigrants will gladly take them, because they want to live! They also want their families to live.

We have an education system that was in dire need of help even before Davos bought her way into the position to screw it over and inject political or religious bias into the system where neither belonged.

And so much more.

Our neighbor to the south is in terrible shape, in large part to drug cartels running rampant and so much of the soil being covered in concrete that it doesn't properly retain water (to say nothing of the waters quality these days). People are leaving that country for a chance to live, just like how some Jews left Europe in the WWII era but were turned away by the US BECAUSE WE HAD ENOUGH ISSUES OF OUR OWN. Then the concentration camps happened in Eurasia while Japanese Internment Camps happened here in the US. Apparently one of our issues back then was moral bankruptcy. So now look at what we're doing by tearing children away from parents, and putting said kids in camps. You say legal means should be taken? I have two words for you: "Geneva Conventions." (Also, yes, the US is armed right now, a la., the Middle East)

DPsx7 posted...

Don't even try to play any of your victim cards. I'm not against these people personally. Put it this way, would you keep inviting endless people into your home? Despite your best intentions you run out of space and supplies, creating trouble in the process.

You are so missing the point here, it isn't even comical in the "Dante's Inferno" sense, and I'm not entirely sure where to begin. At best, your analogy falls flat with the counter that the same people, over the last couple centuries or longer, make the same house larger and more self-sufficient as they add to our resources. At worst, you are shooting blanks in the dark, hoping to hit a beast that might be in the next room over, because I am not playing victim cards so much as I am pointing out the logical fallacy in your statements, by way of shining light on the poor, poor premises.

DPsx7 posted...

PuddingBoy posted...

You're legit insane.

Translation: You're the problem and either don't know or don't care.

Also: that is legit Ad Hominem, calling someone the problem and ignorant, as though that makes you right (it doesn't).
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Jobs that nobody wants? Too damn bad, if you're broke enough long enough you'll take the job. Why are people afraid to get dirty? Oh poor you, don't want to work on a holiday or a weekend once in a while. So while immigrants take the jobs who's going to take care of the people who SHOULD be filling them?

It's not our job to clean up other countries. (I mean long term problems, it's ok for temporary aid for natural disasters and such.) What's worse is people run away from problems at home and bring them here. It's unfortunate but my solution would be close all borders for a while until we get things sorted out. We wouldn't be the first country to say 'we can't do anything for you at the moment.'

I'm not missing the point. Actually I think we strayed off the original point already.

DPsx7 posted...

Jobs that nobody wants? Too damn bad, if you're broke enough long enough you'll take the job. Why are people afraid to get dirty? Oh poor you, don't want to work on a holiday or a weekend once in a while. So while immigrants take the jobs who's going to take care of the people who SHOULD be filling them?

That's simply the way of things. Are you telling me that you would get up tomorrow, if you had to, and work in the hot sun doing farming or landscape work, for shit pay? And the day after that and so on for months or years on end? Would you do that, yourself, if it was your only chance at getting any pay whatsoever?

DPsx7 posted...

It's not our job to clean up other countries. (I mean long term problems, it's ok for temporary aid for natural disasters and such.) What's worse is people run away from problems at home and bring them here. It's unfortunate but my solution would be close all borders for a while until we get things sorted out. We wouldn't be the first country to say 'we can't do anything for you at the moment.'

No, and yet it's been a recurring thing for the US to try doing in the Middle East since the 70s. Meanwhile, the drug cartels in our immediate south continue. This is also to say nothing of the hand we played in winning WWII against Germany. This has always been a thing we do, even though it's not our "job" to be the world police or its benefactors. Don't try that asinine line when our actions have either been long-term in duration or in effect.

DPsx7 posted...

I'm not missing the point. Actually I think we strayed off the original point already.

You are from what people are or have been telling you, and you're introducing more bad arguments along the way.

As for this particular discussion within this topic, it tends to happen for topics to derail or veer off in other directions. Saying "Oh we're getting off topic" to try ending a conversation after it has gone in that direction is just another way of saying "Hey, let's drop this," especially when you are clearly in the wrong in said conversation. You don't seem to be doing that here, but I should point that out as a seemingly necessary tangent that goes nowhere.
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DPsx7 posted...

So while immigrants take the jobs who's going to take care of the people who SHOULD be filling them?

DPsx7 posted...

The US would be stronger if we allowed the hard working migrants from other countries and deported the SJW's instead.

"Dey took er jerbs!"

"I don't care if they come here as long as they're ready to work!"

So which is it?

Entity13 posted...

Ripping children from their families, with or without the intent to deter immigration, especially in a land built on the mere idea of immigrants being welcome? Evil and stupid; it's nothing short of that.

On the other hand, we implicitly accept the idea that it's humane, moral, and acceptable to remove children from parents when said parents are criminals, abusers, or considered corrupting influences (the entire reason child services departments exist).

If you extend that logic to the fact that illegal immigrants are, you know, illegal (ie, criminals), and that some immigrants do indeed exploit US citizenship laws to get their children born on US soil to exploit loopholes to get their own residency tacitly approved or supported, and an argument does arise that the morality of such becomes much murkier, and more rooted in HOW the process is handled rather than whether it happens at all.

There are very few issues in the world that are absolutely black-and-white. And no matter how much the Internet loves to portray Trump as a mustache-twirling supervillain, he doesn't go around doing things solely for the evil lulz.

If anything, that mentality undercuts a lot of his most vocal critics (and criticism in general), because it reduces the entire discussion to childish insults and whining, meaning even valid complaints get completely lost in the noise. When you are completely unwilling to even attempt to understand the logic behind someone's actions, dismiss literally everything they say or do, and never address issues based on actual logic or facts and but emotionally rant about how terrible they are (the classic ad hominem), the usual result is that you accomplish absolutely nothing, the person you're complaining about ceases the give a single shit about what you're saying, and everyone else starts ignoring both sides because it starts to look like a kindergarten slap fight.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

On the other hand, we implicitly accept the idea that it's humane, moral, and acceptable to remove children from parents when said parents are criminals, abusers, or considered corrupting influences (the entire reason child services departments exist).

We don't stick those children in abandoned Walmarts or lose them with no record of where they went.
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Jen0125 posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

On the other hand, we implicitly accept the idea that it's humane, moral, and acceptable to remove children from parents when said parents are criminals, abusers, or considered corrupting influences (the entire reason child services departments exist).

We don't stick those children in abandoned Walmarts or lose them with no record of where they went.

Not to mention that the crime usually indicates a good reason for having them separated from their parents. It's hard to see these immigrant separations as anything other than a gross intimidation tactic. They're also talking about putting them in tent cities in 100 degree weather. That's not a holding center, it's a fucking concentration camp.

They've flat out said they're doing it as a deterrent.
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Chewster posted...

WTF are you even talking about

Sounds like some petty bullshit to be so mad over that you'll just ignore the actual social justice issues, like what's going on with immigrant families. You're a disgusting human being

I'm not fond of chewy, but we agree on this, ok?
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Jen0125 posted...

They've flat out said they're doing it as a deterrent.

Yeah but also it's the Lord's work because something something Bible

I want to see more tears flow from the SJWs who are still REEEEEEEEEEing so hard after all this time.
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It's sad to see that people are still so hateful after everything that's happened in history.
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Yeah it's weird that people don't just stop paying attention to what the President does and give him a free pass for winning an election. As you know, NO ONE complained constantly about Obama for his eight years

Jen0125 posted...

It's sad to see that people are still so hateful after everything that's happened in history.

Man I'm just feeling like I'm ready to be fucking done with people on the internet entirely lately. I guess some of these people exist without a lot of internet influence too, but it's definitely been a really bad influence for many

ASlaveObeys posted...

I don't vote. I live in a blue state, I tend to lean blue anyway and my opinion doesn't matter

this
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Yes, he's had a few missteps like blaming video games for gun violence but he's been doing a great job of standing up to those that are harming the country.
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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

Yes, he's had a few missteps like blaming video games for gun violence but he's been doing a great job of standing up to those that are harming the country.

Yeah, Canada is hurting us so bad and Russia is just so sweet and innocent.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

On the other hand, we implicitly accept the idea that it's humane, moral, and acceptable to remove children from parents when said parents are criminals, abusers, or considered corrupting influences (the entire reason child services departments exist).

If you extend that logic to the fact that illegal immigrants are, you know, illegal (ie, criminals), and that some immigrants do indeed exploit US citizenship laws to get their children born on US soil to exploit loopholes to get their own residency tacitly approved or supported, and an argument does arise that the morality of such becomes much murkier, and more rooted in HOW the process is handled rather than whether it happens at all.

The issue with this premise is the fact that we're literally talking about ripping the children away, putting them in an abandoned store, possibly putting them in "tent cities" in the start of Summer, having atrocious conditions either way, literally using this as a "deterrent" against immigration, and some idiot hiding behind the Bible for their actions as we call them out on it.

...Compared to the previously-already broken systems of Child Protective Services or Justice, which need some serious work, true, but aren't what we're talking about. It's like "Fox News" and the Trump Administration's love for the "What About..." Strategy to any argument; nobody's talking about that, no matter how related you might think it is. It would be like if you were ever pulled over for going 100MPH on the wrong side of a 55 Highway, and you asked the officer trying to do their job, "Hey, what about that driver over there going 80, over on the other side of the freeway?!" That serves as nothing more than a diversion from the issue currently being faced.

And you do NOT extend this to the immigrants because: 1) they would rather take the risk against a law of the land they do not recognize, versus staying where they currently are, and 2) a severe amount of immigration cases are people seeking shelter for their very lives, thus making immigration as an issue more of a symptom rather than the illness. In that, every member of Trump's administration who says this separation of treatment of children is a deterrent is basically saying to Mexico "Don't come here to solve your crisis, because we're just as bad, or worse, for our own reasons. Any same member who hides behind the heavily cherry-picked Bible is trying as hard as is possible to justify their actions to themselves and the god they believe in when, deep down, they know that this sort of thing is wrong. That's just horrible logic, and I know you're able to do better in your sleep, PO.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

There are very few issues in the world that are absolutely black-and-white. And no matter how much the Internet loves to portray Trump as a mustache-twirling supervillain, he doesn't go around doing things solely for the evil lulz.

On the contrary, from what I've seen, it portrays Donald as a self-serving imbecile who hurts or bashes others because they pose a threat to his egocentric bubble. Note the people he praised one day, and then turned on as they are caught by Mueller for one act or another. Note his horrendous picks for EPA, Education, Justice, and more.
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Yes. As a supporter of social equity (equality of output proportionate to input), a taxpayer who prefers paying 20% in taxes as opposed to the 25% I paid under the previous administration (and the 60% I would have been paying under the model proposed by Bernie Sanders), and as someone who cares more about issues of national security, social propriety, and making lapdogs like John McCain squirm, I'm prepared to vote for a dyed-in-the-wool New York City Democrat mogul who defected from his party's ideology, came out in support of gay marriage over half a decade before it was legalized, and has a higher rate of approval among the lowest-income minority groups, over whatever tired, overused, bleeding-heart cliche drops out of the sky like a drunken stork two years from now, regardless of whether college professors and Hollywood actors think he's a nice guy.
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