Board 8 > Phoenix Wright Mafia Topic 11:There's something even thieves shouldn't steal..

(+) Yeah! (+)

I dont want to lynch MI today.

There, I said it. It just doesnt add up. Theyve left him alive-why? Because theres been a godfather the whole time! It makes a lot of sense. Hes pointless to kill when his represents no threat and we have Corrik hounding him. Makes me wonder.

ColZach posted...

I dont want to lynch MI today.

There, I said it. It just doesnt add up. Theyve left him alive-why? Because theres been a godfather the whole time! It makes a lot of sense. Hes pointless to kill when his represents no threat and we have Corrik hounding him. Makes me wonder.

What does it make you wonder
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My Immortal posted...

but says it's obviously a mislynch, not sure why he'd prefer that mislynch to a Donk mislynch

Are you even reading the days then? I multiple times said crescent was the scummiest of the 3 unscanneds. Answers your question for you.
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My Immortal posted...

Nana is the first to do an analysis of NewDonk = Town based on who was on him

##Unvote

Anyways, current votals:

VeryInsane posted...

[4] NewDonker - Arti, Shattered, MI, death
[1] No Lynch - (FD), FD
[1] MI - Corrik
[1] FD - Nana

There's about 8 hours left in day

Corrik is town.
Panthera is town.

I know I'm Town.

That leaves 7 players, in possibly a 5-2 split. So there are 0, 1, or 2 scum on Donker.

If 2: Donker is town, don't lynch him.

If 0: It's been a low volume day and there hasnt been much push back on the Donker lynch. Scum really can't be bussing right now (and could easily have joined in on an FD, MI, or NL) so if Donker is scum, everyone on that lynch is probably Town. That means if Donker is scum, the last scum is FD or ColZach. Also means both scanners are legit which is bananas.

If 1- see above where I think scum won't be bussing.

Donker is town just by probability theory.

However he ends up voting CZ.

Panthera is the one to come in and agree with Nana but disagree with CZ and votes for SE with 20 minutes left in day. Arti agrees with both defending CZ and voting for SE with 18 minutes left in day. Corrik votes SE but says it's obviously a mislynch, not sure why he'd prefer that mislynch to a Donk mislynch

[3] NewDonker - (Arti), Shattered, MI, death
[3] Shattered - Panthera, Arti, Corrik
[1] No Lynch - (FD), FD
[1] ColZack - Nana
[1] MI - Corrik

Nana pushing for lynching FD instead but Corrik doesn't respond to that offer. I post that I think lynching SE is a mistake (lol) and Nana moves to lynch SE.

[4] Shattered - Panthera, Arti, Corrik, Nana
[3] NewDonker - (Arti), Shattered, MI, death
[1] No Lynch - (FD), FD
[1] MI - Corrik
[0] FD - (Nana)
[0] ColZack - (Nana)

TBH is Nana was still alive I'd be paranoid that he was trying to save ND for an easy mislynch on a later day with wanting CZ / FD over ND.

Interesting that CZ didn't even vote anyone all day.

If we assume everyone on SE is town that means that CZ is the last scum and my reads are just horrible wrong.

If Arti is scum he made a crazy power play joining in on SE there for no reason.

Arrrrgh.

So you agree that it is either you or colzach that is scum then.
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If ColZach is scum that means that all Han, Chris and Turbo did was bus for no reason D1.

If Arti is scum that means that Arti bussed for no reason D5 or 6 or whatever that was.

Both of these make no sense to me.
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Not a whole lot, but instead of you being 100% confirmed town youre like 90%. (At least for me). Winston Payne is a villain in PW (thank you google) and is apparently the first guy PW goes up against.

But given someone targeting you N2 it doesnt hold water unless theres some next level shit going on. Even so at this point in the game we have to consider every angle if only to strengthen our confirms

ColZach posted...

Not a whole lot, but instead of you being 100% confirmed town youre like 90%. (At least for me). Winston Payne is a villain in PW (thank you google) and is apparently the first guy PW goes up against.

But given someone targeting you N2 it doesnt hold water unless theres some next level shit going on. Even so at this point in the game we have to consider every angle if only to strengthen our confirms

Can you explain the 10% of angles where I could be scum?
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Obviously Corrik planned this all along and had Crescent target him n2 due to fool a watcher scan he didn't know existed.

No, that's dumb. Corrik is town.
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My Immortal posted...

If ColZach is scum that means that all Han, Chris and Turbo did was bus for no reason D1.

If Arti is scum that means that Arti bussed for no reason D5 or 6 or whatever that was.

Both of these make no sense to me.

I think day 1 you may have been in a scenario where they were just trying to do whatever they could to get the lynch from scum-scum and try to generate movement in branching directions.
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Okay. So, in this 10% the following is true

You pushed against Chris D3 to make yourself look good.

You had someone in your scum team (likely Crescent) scan you N2. I dont know what this would do, as it would assume that someone would watch you. This is where this breaks down the most IMO. This assumes that you know someone will watch you, but the thing here is that this N2 scan was the biggest reason why I personally and probably others voted for Foolmo.

And this would explain why youre railing so hard against MI with the argument youve been using. Your aggression to MI I believe is the majority of my reasons for this feeling, which is why I do still believe you are town, because I can see why even with my experience.

Question is does Chris name all 3 scum as his potential lynch targets? I don't think he necessarily wouldn't do that.
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Arti posted...

Obviously Corrik planned this all along and had Crescent target him n2 due to fool a watcher scan he didn't know existed.

No, that's dumb. Corrik is town.

And thats the thing. Its so beyond a reasonable plan.

Corrik is town. I think hes still my #1.

ColZach posted...

Arti posted...

Obviously Corrik planned this all along and had Crescent target him n2 due to fool a watcher scan he didn't know existed.

No, that's dumb. Corrik is town.

And thats the thing. Its so beyond a reasonable plan.

Corrik is town. I think hes still my #1.

What
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Remind me who Chris' lynch targets were D1. I know they were Han and Sceptile. Who was the other?

I've re-read D1 so many times my brain hurts
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I find it interesting when explaining your behavior you said you were nervous. But implied you were nervous of how people took hammering earlier. Not nervous that the person you were hammering could be town and not scum.
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Corrik posted...

ColZach posted...

Arti posted...

Obviously Corrik planned this all along and had Crescent target him n2 due to fool a watcher scan he didn't know existed.

No, that's dumb. Corrik is town.

And thats the thing. Its so beyond a reasonable plan.

Corrik is town. I think hes still my #1.

What

Youre my #1 town? Sorry if I dont express word good

Behavior behind hammering*
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Corrik posted...

Question is does Chris name all 3 scum as his potential lynch targets? I don't think he necessarily wouldn't do that.

Maybe he was banking on the kidnap confirming him as "town" and was doing it on purpose. I don't know, but I wouldn't really bet on it.
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Arti posted...

Corrik posted...

Question is does Chris name all 3 scum as his potential lynch targets? I don't think he necessarily wouldn't do that.

Maybe he was banking on the kidnap confirming him as "town" and was doing it on purpose. I don't know, but I wouldn't really bet on it.

Chris likes to be right as much as I do. He may have just done it to be right. Falls off his targets. Then if they flip later been like dammit I thought so day 1 i shoulda listened to my gut. I mean, he does call me town day 1 off the bat also.
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Am I supposed to say oh boy I sure hope this isnt a mislynch? Every time I vote? Instead of asking questions about my expressions about hammering, why dont you explain why you hopped over to FD the way you did after railing against what seemed like everything else.

What all do we know about Crescents action?

ColZach posted...

Am I supposed to say oh boy I sure hope this isnt a mislynch? Every time I vote? Instead of asking questions about my expressions about hammering, why dont you explain why you hopped over to FD the way you did after railing against what seemed like everything else.

What all do we know about Crescents action?

I hopped to FD because I couldn't achieve the lynch I wanted to and helped the majority of the game achieve the lynch they wanted (on someone I didn't have far down my scum lost) to end my frustration of people not listening to me on MI. I also got people to agree to being open to lynch MI that day in agreement of me helping the lynch.
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My Immortal posted...

Remind me who Chris' lynch targets were D1. I know they were Han and Sceptile. Who was the other?

I've re-read D1 so many times my brain hurts

Deadpool
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Deadpool Han sceptile.

Sceptile is the only one he really tried to push tho.
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ColZach posted...

Am I supposed to say oh boy I sure hope this isnt a mislynch? Every time I vote? Instead of asking questions about my expressions about hammering, why dont you explain why you hopped over to FD the way you did after railing against what seemed like everything else.

What all do we know about Crescents action?

Actually, I just think in the scenario I would have been more nervous about an alignment I didn't know than people possibly being upset about a day ending early.
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In fact, I would think anyone would be unless they alrdy knew the alignment.
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ColZach posted...

Am I supposed to say oh boy I sure hope this isnt a mislynch?

Corrik youre town, but youre really bad town. I get why MI is ignoring you today. Youre wasting your time, especially when you put FD at -1.

Gonna wait for more people to post today, because Corrik is just running in circles.

Lmfao
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ColZach posted...

Gonna wait for more people to post today, because Corrik is just running in circles.

Everyone has posted today. Everyone but Donker has posted more than you, I think. Who are you waiting on and when can I meet them?

As for ignoring Corrik, that is a bad idea for town. Corrik is the most confirmed town in the game, town needs to try to work with town. This is one of the reasons why scum might have killed Nana instead of him, they know Corrik's mafia strategy sometimes trends towards aggravating everyone else in the hopes they'll get sick of the game, give up and make it obvious what their role is in the process, going to endgame with a player no one will listen to not because they doubt his alignment or because of his arguments but because of general disdain is a win for scum.
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You didn't have to say anything. But instead of being worried about alignment which should have been at the forefront of your thoughts, you were worried enough by how you looked to outright state into the game a justification for your hammer.

Justifying a mislynch is like poor scum play 101.
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Not going to blatantly ignore Corrik but Id like to see more from Arti and Donk. I am trying-keyword trying to work with town.

Also where did I justify the mislynch? We fucked up in lynching FD, thats a fact.

Did you express concern about alignment Corrik when you voted off of your #1 and #2 and went for your #3? No, you did not. Youre town, so think about that for a moment.

ColZach posted...

Not going to blatantly ignore Corrik but Id like to see more from Arti and Donk. I am trying-keyword trying to work with town.

Also where did I justify the mislynch? We fucked up in lynching FD, thats a fact.

Did you express concern about alignment Corrik when you voted off of your #1 and #2 and went for your #3? No, you did not. Youre town, so think about that for a moment.

Are you not understanding what I am saying?
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I guess Im not?

ColZach posted...

I guess Im not?

I don't think you would have posted what you had posted when you hammered if your mind was actually on the thought process of that person's alignment being unsure to you. Like, it wouldn't have been on your mind to post to justify your hammer.

If you had posted anything at all, I would have assumed a more like... Hopefully this is right or YOLO. Or just nothing at all. Your mind seemed to be in the wrong place when you hammered because you were more worried about how your hammer would be received and your mind wasn't concerned about the alignment based on what you posted.

You didn't have to post anything. You chose to. And it signals where your mind was at the time of your hammer.
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Okay, now I understand your logic.

Its incorrect, but I understand now. Let me say again that those feelings came from posts (I believe it was FD funny enough) where he started a day by saying WHAT THE FUCK ZAM and voted him if I remember right.

I feel like this argument would have a lot more merit if you had actually played several games with me and could compare it to other hammers Ive placed.

Corrik posted...

Well, I think Donker is town and MI isn't happening and I want this day to end.

##unvote:
##vote: FD

Whatevs.

Personally if you werent so confirmed this would make me think youre absolutely scum.

Arti posted...

cool FD

here are my quick thoughts

##Vote: FD

Its posts like these I think we should be much more wary of, Mr. Payne.

ColZach posted...

Personally if you werent so confirmed this would make me think youre absolutely scum.

He is so confirmed though. Odd thing to bring up. You'd think him being so confirmed would make you reevaluate if that post makes someone absolutely scum, given it was made by someone so confirmed and not absolutely scum. So confirmed. The best confirmations, absolutely.
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ColZach posted...

Okay, now I understand your logic.

Its incorrect, but I understand now. Let me say again that those feelings came from posts (I believe it was FD funny enough) where he started a day by saying WHAT THE FUCK ZAM and voted him if I remember right.

I feel like this argument would have a lot more merit if you had actually played several games with me and could compare it to other hammers Ive placed.

Corrik posted...

Well, I think Donker is town and MI isn't happening and I want this day to end.

##unvote:
##vote: FD

Whatevs.

Personally if you werent so confirmed this would make me think youre absolutely scum.

Arti posted...

cool FD

here are my quick thoughts

##Vote: FD

Its posts like these I think we should be much more wary of, Mr. Payne.

Well, one of those posts isn't even from me. And my logic is sound. Between the two options I voted the one I felt was less town. It is not like me and Donker can be scum together after all.
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Are just going to let this topic purge or something?
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@Arti
@Panthera

discussion pls

Looks like MI threw in the towel.
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I'm going to do a MI iso when I have some time later tonight.
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Oh

Well, I'm here now at least. Time to start
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Or you know, log faqs can refuse to work. That works too
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I had a work outing and then a game of Starfinder this evening. I'm not throwing in anything because I have nothing to throw in.

I also like how no one posts all afternoon and it is only specifically me who gave up.
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Logs are working for me Arti
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I'm just watching but the Lost Old Games Site works just fine for me too, though it's a bit slow loading topics.

(Also I want to play Mafia with you guys sometime)
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Yeah it's working now. Time to try again
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MI iso

MI starts with a few fluff posts on page 1, nothing too substantial, then votes Scare as a joke.

When he comes back the next day (real-time day, not mafia day), puns, Shad and prof all voted Corrik for his claim. MI asks why all three did this. He also looks specifically at prof, saying that it's weird that prof thinks Corrik and Alakazam are scum on so little content. MI says that Alakazam is "the person who would be easiest to mislynch" if he is town.

Almost immediately puns and Shad both get off Corrik. MI is fine with Shad's unvote, but is wary of puns and prof still. FD likes MI as town after the interaction between MI and puns. After debating with puns a bit MI votes prof.

Prof makes a bad post and MI tags Leo to also vote him. Sceptile joins the prof lynch, though red just says "deadpool being bad is just expected, tbh." MI also asks Corrik about his read on Chris, and a few pages later Corrik calls them scumbuddies.

Later, red notices Crescent throwing shade on another group of three: Alakazam, MI and prof. She pointed out one scum and two town in her earlier post (eaed, Han and Nana for reference), maybe it's the same here? Chris notices and says to figure out which is the scumbuddy from that group. Would she include two scum in her list?

MI and Crescent later discuss a bit about Zam, and Zam completely misses a question to him twice.

After Zam fakeclaims vanilla and prof attacks him for it, MI says that all prof has been talking about was Corrik and Zam (asking for some content on others), and then prof posts stuff on other people based on Corrik and Zam. I notice this when reading up and I post about it, saying "it's difficult to fabricate things on more than one person at a time" due to the fact that he kept bringing up the same two people.

Overall, topic 1 MI seems like solid town. I do remember him latching onto Chris at some point during d1 and that's what I want to reread more.
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[1] MI - NewDonker, (Corrik)
[1] NL - MI
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First post by MI in topic 2 was him going after past games by Zam, and he finds a post that Zam makes saying he does not support claiming day one, of course after he had already done so in this game. Prof latches on to that post even with a ton of votes falling on him. Crescent thinks MI is town, and agrees that prof should claim, but doesn't vote. They discuss about Nana a bit, MI's opinion on Nana falls perfectly with how I think - useless and afraid to post as scum. Thought Nana was town for most of the game here.

MI then makes a big post about prof, talking about all the things he's found with all his posts, including the votes with little to go on and how he talked about Corrik and Zam exclusively even when dealing with reads on other players.

Leo unvotes prof on the next page to pressure DYL a bit, and MI supports it but says not to forget about prof.

Corrik again states that MI and Chris are scum together while voting Chris. Death asks why, and MI says it's because "I don't want to lynch Chris today". Corrik then says it's because MI is soft defending Chris, and quotes a few posts proving his point. He says that after Chris snapped at MI for doing so, MI started attacking the "scummy looking townies" in prof and zam. Red agrees with Corrik on the following page.

After foolmo posts his big reveal with all his reads, MI comments on the nine scum reads, then asks why Nana is on his town list, but doesn't really follow it up. He later calls me out for unvoting Zam saying my reasoning is off. I thought Zam voting Chris there and actually putting the vote down made him seem more like town to me >_>

Votals are posted, and Shad immediately says that many of the prof votes have vanished and says he's idling out on purpose, and MI agrees with him. MI also attacks Sceptile here for his vote on Chris, saying that he seems too certain. This is also one of the points that strengthens the MI/Chris connection, as Chris voted Sceptile a bit before that. Foolmo notices this and points it out, saying that MI should've voted Sceptile beforehand but only did it when Chris laid the vote down.

MI says after voting Sceptile that pressure on prof is pointless because his timestamp isn't even updating. I call him out for using typical board 8 reasoning on inactive players.

Seeped into topic 3 just a bit since those last two points were important. It's the first slip-up I've seen (though Corrik had some more) where MI links himself to Chris a bit too much, and then hangs up his prof lynch (a scum lynch) to chase Sceptile who is town. While the rest of the topic was very good in regards to MI, I don't like how it ended. Both of his actions here seem more like scum than town. I'm also interested in red's read. He didn't post much on day one and was killed on night one anyway, and posted that he thought MI and Chris were scum together like Corrik did. People have a hard time believing Corrik so he's still around, but red is a better player than him.
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I appreciate this ISO, and it makes me want to lynch MI even less.

Arti, when you have a chance what are your donk thoughts?