Board 8 > Phoenix Wright Mafia Topic 11:There's something even thieves shouldn't steal..

(+) Yeah! (+)

Let's look at scanning.

Hypothetically MI is scum.

Town has:
Tracker
Bitch Watcher
EON Flavor Cop (in a hypothetical world where he hits doppelgnger N2, he doesnt get a useful scan until day 5
Roleblocker

This doesn't seem like it's enough.

There's nothing that says we can't have redundant scum roles.

Example: Skyrim Mafia. All the Town players were Millers, but half the mafia players were Godfathers (BUT NOT ALL), and half the Mafia players were Ninjas (BUT NOT ALL), so there was redundancy.

Town can always have more scanning if Mafia has more ways to counter that scanning.

Scum could have a Doppelganger that scans as Town to Cop AND a Godfather who scans Town to a Cop, and that means that Cop would have a reduced chance of a guilty scan. That makes the investigation look like this:

Tracker
Bitch Watcher
EON Flavor Cop
Roleblocker
Cop who can only find 2/3 of the scum.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Also:

Nanahara715 posted...

DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD NO LYNCH TO GET MORE INFO FROM OUR SCANNER???? IF WE LYNCH THE WRONG UNSCANNED THEN WE ARE DOWN TO TWO MLS INSTEAD OF THREE?!?!?!

This is dumb.

You are being dumb.

It made sense yesterday, so I promoted it yesterday. We had 2 scanners, both of whom conceivably had an action last night. (Death didn't count the day before because it was an odd night). I'm sure somewhere foolmo was rolling in his grave at your collective behavior.

It does not make sense today, so I will not be pushing for it today. We have 3 MLs before losing, which gives us 2 MLs to play with, though I do not think we will even need that many.

We have Donker today, which probably just ends the game. But if it doesn't then either they kill MI (saving us from further doubt) or MI lives and gets the theorhetical guilty scan on nana.

Also, this is dumb and YOU are being dumb, this is a much better day to NL than yesterday, because MI is straight up a lynch candidate to him. If the last scum scans Mafia, they shoot him tonight and that stops us from MLing a town MI because they shoot him instead.
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I have difficulty seeing Donker as scum because of how he was bussed yesterday by CMSE.
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Someone iso all of MIs shit from day 1.
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I'm on it!

...wait.
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I think assuming there's no Godfather is a dangerous way to lose the game. I know it's not me. I can't fathom it's Nana - based on play PLUS there was no reason for Nana to bus SE yesterday. If SE was godfather, Nana lynching him would've ruined everything since my innocent scans would then be confirmed.

If it is just NewDonk that would be nice - but I'm not going to assume it has to be.
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Nanahara715 posted...

I have difficulty seeing Donker as scum because of how he was bussed yesterday by CMSE.

If SE was godfather I can kind of see it. Bus the one remaining guilty scanning scum to look good, and then get everyone to focus on all of the innocent scans.

But it still seems unnecessary. Push to lynch ColZach of the unscanned, get Donk killed the next day by me scanning him or scanning SE inno, then push for me to confirm I'm cop then FD or Arti to win.

Lynching Donk first would not be smart.
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When we mislynch because we are afraid to lynch the cop claim can scum please shoot me tonight? Thanks, scum! <3
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Comedy option still remains. DYL and Crescent both replaced out cuz scum was fucked
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Corrik posted...

Comedy option still remains. DYL and Crescent both replaced out cuz scum was fucked

Makes ColZach GF.
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Nanahara715 posted...

Corrik posted...

Comedy option still remains. DYL and Crescent both replaced out cuz scum was fucked

Makes ColZach GF.

Nvm, I'm confusing the replaces.

I don't see Panthera bussing CMSE for no reason yesterday.
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Nanahara715 posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

Corrik posted...

Comedy option still remains. DYL and Crescent both replaced out cuz scum was fucked

Makes ColZach GF.

Nvm, I'm confusing the replaces.

I don't see Panthera bussing CMSE for no reason yesterday.

Also makes Panthera GF.
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Nanahara715 posted...

Corrik posted...

Comedy option still remains. DYL and Crescent both replaced out cuz scum was fucked

Makes ColZach GF.

For anyone not named MI to be scum, you have to do major gymnastics and moving the bars to get the outcome of not town.

So for giggles on the comedy option. Sceptile is a godfather in a redundant role. Was scanned inno. And chris' 3 options to lycnh day 1 were all scum with Han sceptile and Deadpool.

On the back end, colzach seemed coached on how to respond to a fake scan. He also disappeared yesterday when he was one of the 3 options to lynch.

That said, the beginning portion is ridiculous to get past to not make town.
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Oh dyl is pantbera sorry let me change.

None of the reasons for dyl to be scum exist as named above at all. And add that dyl was tracked and they killed the tracker which confirmed dyl and Nana town because they could have submitted the kills from an alrdy tracked person endlessly and never been caught by shad from that spot.
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Literally only 2 ppl in the game can be scum. Everyone is confirmed across the board.

Donker or MI.

That is it. No one else can be.

Every Nana argument is insane.
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Do we think Dahlia Hawthorne is the last scum?
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Nanahara715 posted...

Do we think Dahlia Hawthorne is the last scum?

No one plays kiddie Nintendo games and knows who that is.
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Corrik posted...

Literally only 2 ppl in the game can be scum. Everyone is confirmed across the board.

Donker or MI.

That is it. No one else can be.

Every Nana argument is insane.

I hope youre correct.

Between Donk and MI, who should we lynch? I know youve already pushed for MI but has anything changed with the discussion today?

ColZach posted...

Corrik posted...

Literally only 2 ppl in the game can be scum. Everyone is confirmed across the board.

Donker or MI.

That is it. No one else can be.

Every Nana argument is insane.

I hope youre correct.

Between Donk and MI, who should we lynch? I know youve already pushed for MI but has anything changed with the discussion today?

If I didn't a solid town read on Donk then he is the obvious lynch. I mean but for him to be scum it means his godfather had to be willing to bus him with 2 scum left and donk willing to hop on the train to kill their godfather with 2 scum left also with a scanner alive.

So, at the end of the day. It would be highly ridiculous for donk to be scum.

To the literal point of absurdity.

I mean, the only person who you don't have to absurd to lynch as scum is MI. And it fits his normal scum playstyle. And if he is town he gets shot tonight anyways (if donk is scum) so he is effectively a vanilla as he provides no more information to the game even if we happened to be wrong.

If you mislynch today and donk isn't scum, MI will be alive tomorrow regardless of him being town or not. He can't provide a guilty scan. (Most likely because he is alrdy scum).
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Corrik posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I find a doppleganger with only an every-other-night-thief to be affected by it to be kind of extra pointless.

This is a fair point.

You agreed with this but still think its MI?
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Nanahara715 posted...

Do we think Dahlia Hawthorne is the last scum?

Depends. It's either her or Quercus Alba, from AAI. I've been thinking Dahlia because godfather, but it really could be either of them now.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Corrik posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I find a doppleganger with only an every-other-night-thief to be affected by it to be kind of extra pointless.

This is a fair point.

You agreed with this but still think its MI?

Yes.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Corrik posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I find a doppleganger with only an every-other-night-thief to be affected by it to be kind of extra pointless.

This is a fair point.

You agreed with this but still think its MI?

Let me put it this way. Is that any more ridiculous that misleading role in there for the every other night cop or in relation to MI claiming that a godfather definitely exists and that a godfather is there specifically for his role and that the doppelganger was STILL there just for the thief role in that scenario?

Because both those theories amount to the same thing. The doppelganger was there just to fool the thief.
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Corrik posted...

Yes.

Fair enough then allow me to put a final few nails in donkers coffin:

Corrik posted...

If I didn't a solid town read on Donk then he is the obvious lynch. I mean but for him to be scum it means his godfather had to be willing to bus him with 2 scum left and donk willing to hop on the train to kill their godfather with 2 scum left also with a scanner alive.

1) I don't care to think we should be basing everything today on your "solid town read" of donker.

2) It actually makes sense that his godfather (in this case doppleganger) would be willing to lynch him. Scum's best chance to win involved SE being scanned innocent last night, and then MI getting confirmed cop ASAP. Then we had several innocent scans and potentially only 2 MLs left to lose. That was the only play left for scum. SE's life would have been worth infinitely more than Donkers.

3) Check the votals. Donker did not vote for SE. Donker did not vote for anyone yesterday. He was rolling over. Presumably to go along with the aforementioned "get dopleganger scanned" plan.
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A. Doppelganger can't be there just for every other night cop. That's silly. (Also remember it had power besides this.

Or

B. Godfather definitely exists for the cop with the doppelganger thus making the doppelganger only for the thief and the godfather only for the Cop.

They are both arguing the same thing and MI has been arguing to lynch an innocent scan. Because he has to as scum.

Doppelganger flipped with a power also. Thus, it didn't exist only to follow the thief but also to gain information.
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Corrik posted...

A. Doppelganger can't be there just for every other night cop. That's silly. (Also remember it had power besides this.

Or

B. Godfather definitely exists for the cop with the doppelganger thus making the doppelganger only for the thief and the godfather only for the Cop.

They are both arguing the same thing and MI has been arguing to lynch an innocent scan. Because he has to as scum.

Doppelganger flipped with a power also. Thus, it didn't exist only to follow the thief but also to gain information.

We can ignore my read. However, if we do and you are wrong, are you willing to ignore your read and Lynch MI tomorrow?
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Yes
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Only donker or mi can possibly be scum. I have acknowledged this. So Donker is a fair lynch. But anyone talking about lynching an innocent scan over mi is outrageous.
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Fine. End this day.

##unvote:
##vote: NewDonker
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I'm not arguing to lynch an innocent scan. I researched doppleganger this morning and think it's possible that SE would've scanned inno to me.

But I'm not going to assume that for certainty. I found a LOT of different doppleganger roles.

If he was Godfather then Donk is 100% the last scum (or Nana or Corrik but lol at those chances). If we lynch Donk and he's innocent, then there's a Godfather out there still.

I'm willing to lynch Donk today and find out. We have 3 mislynches still. But if Donk ends up as town then we have a Godfather and I'm going to find it opposed to letting you lynch me.
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Corrik posted...

Only donker or mi can possibly be scum. I have acknowledged this. So Donker is a fair lynch. But anyone talking about lynching an innocent scan over mi is outrageous.

All cards on my table, I don't respect FDs reads or his thoughts on this game and will not follow him onto Donker. I will vote MI with Corrik before I vote Donker with FD.

I will refuse to lynch Donker over FD should MI flip town.
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You're taking FD wanting to NL way to hard Nana.
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My Immortal posted...

You're taking FD wanting to NL way to hard Nana.

The dude has played like ass the whole game, has he even voted for a single flipped scum player?
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Really, looking at the player list and going with the reads I've seen so far I can only see FD or Donk as the last scum. FD if there is still an innocent-scanning scum member left, Donk if there isn't one. Everyone else is either confirmed through scans or is a strong town read like Sceptile.
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Nanahara715 posted...

My Immortal posted...

You're taking FD wanting to NL way to hard Nana.

The dude has played like ass the whole game, has he even voted for a single flipped scum player?

So vote for MI. Voting anyone besides those 2 is absolutely ridiculous. Plus no one played this game worse than foolmo (sorry). So you can't act too offended by FDs play.
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Corrik posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

My Immortal posted...

You're taking FD wanting to NL way to hard Nana.

The dude has played like ass the whole game, has he even voted for a single flipped scum player?

So vote for MI. Voting anyone besides those 2 is absolutely ridiculous. Plus no one played this game worse than foolmo (sorry). So you can't act too offended by FDs play.

I mean, I voted for Foolmo too,

I'm about to go to Atlanta to see Hamilton and will be out of pocket tonight until ~10. If y'all can get a lynch ahead of then, Godspeed.

Comedy Option- Dahlia Hawthorne is poisoner and Zam's mysterious modkill was because VI forgot to flip him at the appropriate time.
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Nanahara715 posted...

Corrik posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

My Immortal posted...

You're taking FD wanting to NL way to hard Nana.

The dude has played like ass the whole game, has he even voted for a single flipped scum player?

So vote for MI. Voting anyone besides those 2 is absolutely ridiculous. Plus no one played this game worse than foolmo (sorry). So you can't act too offended by FDs play.

I mean, I voted for Foolmo too,

I'm about to go to Atlanta to see Hamilton and will be out of pocket tonight until ~10. If y'all can get a lynch ahead of then, Godspeed.

Comedy Option- Dahlia Hawthorne is poisoner and Zam's mysterious modkill was because VI forgot to flip him at the appropriate time.

Zero chance of that. Game would be void. Likely Alakazam pmed someone he wasn't supposed to.
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Corrik posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

Corrik posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

My Immortal posted...

You're taking FD wanting to NL way to hard Nana.

The dude has played like ass the whole game, has he even voted for a single flipped scum player?

So vote for MI. Voting anyone besides those 2 is absolutely ridiculous. Plus no one played this game worse than foolmo (sorry). So you can't act too offended by FDs play.

I mean, I voted for Foolmo too,

I'm about to go to Atlanta to see Hamilton and will be out of pocket tonight until ~10. If y'all can get a lynch ahead of then, Godspeed.

Comedy Option- Dahlia Hawthorne is poisoner and Zam's mysterious modkill was because VI forgot to flip him at the appropriate time.

Zero chance of that. Game would be void. Likely Alakazam pmed someone he wasn't supposed to.

Would be amazingly surprised given the disaster of Infinity Wars that was sparked by someone PMing someone, but I guess it's possible.

Moving on.
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Granted alakazam actually may have played worse than foolmo.
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I wonder if the last scum has a bus drive and that they drove Corrik with one of them [probably Han or FD] on N2 thinking I would shoot one of them. Would explain Han [and FD] being "irritated" I didn't shoot one of them.
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Nanahara715 posted...

All cards on my table, I don't respect FDs reads or his thoughts on this game and will not follow him onto Donker. I will vote MI with Corrik before I vote Donker with FD.

How ridiculously petty of you.

Don't allow your emotions to cloud your judgement.

.

Nanahara715 posted...

The dude has played like ass the whole game, has he even voted for a single flipped scum player?

Most of the days did not last long enough. Even so I think that's a mark in my favor for being town. Scum is ever concerned with how they are going to look, both in the moment and in retrospect so they find opportunities to get "reads" and votes on their scummates. But even so that's neither here nor there with regard to the logic behind our lynch today.

So how about you get over the fact that im not convinced you are town because you claimed to shoot a bp.
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That seems like a rabbit hole you're going down FD.

Do you think scum Han joking claimed day-vig in order to get scum Nana to counterclaim him risking being counterclaimed by an actual town vig?
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My Immortal posted...

Do you think scum Han joking claimed day-vig in order to get scum Nana to counterclaim him risking being counterclaimed by an actual town vig?

No I don't, and that interaction had me thinking nana was likely town.

But there is a big gulf between likely and 100% and for some reason nana was immediately being given the benefit of the doubt as to be "100% town" instead of "probably town". I didnt want to fall into a trap of believing something as fact that literally wasnt.

And nana shooting someone counterintuitive to his reads that day, someone who had at least partially claimed to be bp, was just a cherry on top.

And since I believe MI implicitly right now, and since i dont believe there is a GF in addition to dopple... That only leaves donk and nana.

And you will not my vote is not on nana.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

My Immortal posted...

Do you think scum Han joking claimed day-vig in order to get scum Nana to counterclaim him risking being counterclaimed by an actual town vig?

No I don't, and that interaction had me thinking nana was likely town.

But there is a big gulf between likely and 100% and for some reason nana was immediately being given the benefit of the doubt as to be "100% town" instead of "probably town". I didnt want to fall into a trap of believing something as fact that literally wasnt.

And nana shooting someone counterintuitive to his reads that day, someone who had at least partially claimed to be bp, was just a cherry on top.

And since I believe MI implicitly right now, and since i dont believe there is a GF in addition to dopple... That only leaves donk and nana.

And you will not my vote is not on nana.

How can you know his reads on someone who wasn't even there that day? lol
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I know his reads on the ones who were, which is why i was surprised to survive the night. And in nana's shoes i certainly don't aim at someone who even jokingly claimed bp.

Regardless that has no bearing on today.
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nana is town

tracked nowhere n4

helped with the se lynch yesterday

scum has a bp

claimed vig early, and would probably not claim such as scum since he would know there's a bp on his team
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Again, Scum would not have killed the tracker over the Cop if either Nana or DYL were scum unless MI is scum.
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Corrik posted...

Again, Scum would not have killed the tracker over the Cop if either Nana or DYL were scum unless MI is scum

They took out the tracker to hide the doppleganger since the tracker was the last role that could have found him.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Corrik posted...

Again, Scum would not have killed the tracker over the Cop if either Nana or DYL were scum unless MI is scum

They took out the tracker to hide the doppleganger since the tracker was the last role that could have found him.

Listen. Let me explain this again.

If DYL or Nana were scum. Shad would have never tracked them again. They could have put the kills in from those players at will and never have been caught by shad. The cop could have scanned the non-doppelganger scum as guilty. The tracker could have NEVER caught scum because the previously tracked going nowhere player would have been putting the kill in afterwards.

Do you understand?
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Because tracker/watcher never track the same person more than once.

Oh wait.
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I'm fine with being lynched if that finally makes people realize that either MI is scum mastermind, or the last scum is godfather. Because Nana, Corrik, and I are the last unscanneds, and both Nana and Corik are both 99% town (despite what FD wants you to think), so we would still have 3 shots to nail the last scum, which is:
[FD, MI, ColZach]: Most likely, in order of greatest to least
[Arti, Panthera]: Maybe, if they are actually scum geniuses
[Corrik, Nana]: 1% Chance to be scum.
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