Current Events > Teacher claims school forced his resignation over not using trans student's name

(+) Yeah! (+)

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

You cant call a student by their last name now?

One of my teachers called everyone Mr. and Ms. (their last name). He said its because it should be expected in the real world and thats what he encouraged others to do.

I hate that he got axed because of identity politics, but he had a chance to rectify it and chose to quit.

What makes this identity politics?
---

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

I hate that he got axed because of identity politics, but he had a chance to rectify it and chose to quit.

It's not identity politics to be a decent person
---

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

One of my teachers called everyone Mr. and Ms. (their last name). He said its because it should be expected in the real world and thats what he encouraged others to do.

If you did that with everyone, nobody would have a problem with you. If you singled out one student while calling everyone else by their preferred first name, do you not see how that can cause an unhealthy environment?

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

You cant call a student by their last name now?

One of my teachers called everyone Mr. and Ms. (their last name). He said its because it should be expected in the real world and thats what he encouraged others to do.

I hate that he got axed because of identity politics, but he had a chance to rectify it and chose to quit.

it's perfectly fine if the teacher is doing it for everyone, I had a few like that too. and a couple that only used last names(that one is always the gym teachers)
---

Darklit_Minuet posted...

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

One of my teachers called everyone Mr. and Ms. (their last name). He said its because it should be expected in the real world and thats what he encouraged others to do.

If you did that with everyone, nobody would have a problem with you. If you singled out one student while calling everyone else by their preferred first name, do you not see how that can cause an unhealthy environment?

Thats my bad. I thought he started calling everyone that.
---

i wanted my teacher to call me BaseRaider482 after my xbox tag but they refused
---

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

One of my teachers called everyone Mr. and Ms. (their last name). He said its because it should be expected in the real world and thats what he encouraged others to do.

If you did that with everyone, nobody would have a problem with you. If you singled out one student while calling everyone else by their preferred first name, do you not see how that can cause an unhealthy environment?

Thats my bad. I thought he started along everyone that.

No one even calls others by their last name in work environment
---

emblem boy posted...

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

Darklit_Minuet posted...

DiegoSanchez206 posted...

One of my teachers called everyone Mr. and Ms. (their last name). He said its because it should be expected in the real world and thats what he encouraged others to do.

If you did that with everyone, nobody would have a problem with you. If you singled out one student while calling everyone else by their preferred first name, do you not see how that can cause an unhealthy environment?

Thats my bad. I thought he started along everyone that.

No one even calls others by their last name in work environment

Our teacher grew up ina different time and was military. It still would instill a bit of respect. My opinion of course. I actually enjoyed it.
---

59 posts and not as single one is mentioning how he looks like Sid from Ice Age smh CE

https://imgur.com/a/HhNSuMS
---

s0nicfan posted...

If the teacher actually dealt with it by using the students' last name (especially if he switched to using all their last names, but the article doesn't say), that seems like a fair compromise. He's not "dead naming" anyone, but he's also not being forced to say something he doesn't support.

If he commonly used last names alone with his students I could definitely see this being a non-issue.

If this student was one of the only or few students that he only referred to by last name, then fair, next.

Also, not supporting your student who's trying to overcome a problem in a way prescribed by most doctors is grounds enough for being fired IMO.
---

This isn't protected speech by the teacher. Under current law, public employers are still allowed to set policies and make decisions. Teachers are allowed to speak out on matters of public concern as a private citizen, but this isn't that. This is just a teacher singling out and intentionally misgendering a student.

It wouldn't be any more acceptable if he called all white students by their first name and handled the only black student in a different manner. It wouldn't be compelled speech to require the teacher to stop discriminating in that situation and it isn't here. I doubt someone's name could even be recognized as speech as a threshold matter.
---

Zeeak4444 posted...

irst off it's not freedom of speech. So he's an idiot.

Secondly, last name should have been fine. That's a pretty damn fair compromise. I expected him to have been using the original first name out of spite or something.

Third, every teacher I had asked if people had a preferred name to be called and used that. I've been out of highschool for over a decade now too so it's not some new thing.

Last name is not fine. It is still singling the kid out, if he is not doing to everyone .
---

I went and looked up an alternate source, and holy shit, the ABC article blatantly lies and leaves out all of the important details.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2018/06/05/transgender-student-policy-prompts-dispute-between-brownsburg-teacher-school/670265002/

TL;DR There was no actual student complaint, or any student involved AT ALL. Kluge had already been referring to ALL students, regardless of identity, by their last names, and not telling them why so as to preserve a neutral environment and avoid forcing his beliefs on his students. The school had agreed to this, and later changed their mind and decided that the policy next year would mandate usage of preferred first names. The school district threatened to fire him 3 weeks before the end of the current school year if he didn't willingly resign, months before the policy will even be implemented and without any actual complaints or incidents to justify the firing. So he handed in a tentative letter of resignation with instructions not to officially submit it until the 29th so that he could at least finish out the school year, but on the 25th when he requested to withdraw his resignation they instead locked him out of his e-mail, accepted his resignation against his will, and posted his job position.

I take back what I said. The school is completely in the wrong here. He wasn't harming any students, he was treating everyone exactly the same, he wasn't discussing his views with any students, and he was following the policy that he and the school had already agreed to. It seems the school decided to force him out as fast as they possibly could, and engaged in underhanded tactics to do so.
---

snake1989 posted...

I went and looked up an alternate source, and holy shit, the ABC article blatantly lies and leaves out all of the important details.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2018/06/05/transgender-student-policy-prompts-dispute-between-brownsburg-teacher-school/670265002/

TL;DR There was no actual student complaint, or any student involved AT ALL. Kluge had already been referring to ALL students, regardless of identity, by their last names, and not telling them why so as to preserve a neutral environment and avoid forcing his beliefs on his students. The school had agreed to this, and later changed their mind and decided that the policy next year would mandate usage of preferred first names. The school district threatened to fire him 3 weeks before the end of the current school year if he didn't willingly resign, months before the policy will even be implemented and without any actual complaints or incidents to justify the firing. So he handed in a tentative letter of resignation with instructions not to officially submit it until the 29th so that he could at least finish out the school year, but on the 25th when he requested to withdraw his resignation they instead locked him out of his e-mail, accepted his resignation against his will, and posted his job position.

I take back what I said. The school is completely in the wrong here. He wasn't harming any students, he was treating everyone exactly the same, he wasn't discussing his views with any students, and he was following the policy that he and the school had already agreed to. It seems the school decided to force him out as fast as they possibly could, and engaged in underhanded tactics to do so.

@ultimate_reaver
---

sjws strike again
---

s0nicfan posted...

snake1989 posted...

I went and looked up an alternate source, and holy shit, the ABC article blatantly lies and leaves out all of the important details.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2018/06/05/transgender-student-policy-prompts-dispute-between-brownsburg-teacher-school/670265002/

TL;DR There was no actual student complaint, or any student involved AT ALL. Kluge had already been referring to ALL students, regardless of identity, by their last names, and not telling them why so as to preserve a neutral environment and avoid forcing his beliefs on his students. The school had agreed to this, and later changed their mind and decided that the policy next year would mandate usage of preferred first names. The school district threatened to fire him 3 weeks before the end of the current school year if he didn't willingly resign, months before the policy will even be implemented and without any actual complaints or incidents to justify the firing. So he handed in a tentative letter of resignation with instructions not to officially submit it until the 29th so that he could at least finish out the school year, but on the 25th when he requested to withdraw his resignation they instead locked him out of his e-mail, accepted his resignation against his will, and posted his job position.

I take back what I said. The school is completely in the wrong here. He wasn't harming any students, he was treating everyone exactly the same, he wasn't discussing his views with any students, and he was following the policy that he and the school had already agreed to. It seems the school decided to force him out as fast as they possibly could, and engaged in underhanded tactics to do so.

@ultimate_reaver

---

Again, as a teacher, I will say that basically if a school implements new policy in how to address students and you decide that you cannot abide by that, you are free to do that. The school is free to fire you for it too.

As an educator this guy kinda sickens me. He will call everyone by their last name just to avoid calling someone by their preferred first name? That is ridiculous and appalling, and to suggest that students won't understand why he is doing it is really disrespectful.

Basically, if the school were to allow this to continue after deciding to make the policy go into effect it would undermine everything they are trying to do.

If the guy simply cannot follow this policy, then go get a job elsewhere that doesn't have this policy. I can't work in the Catholic School Division because I'm not Catholic. You don't see me crying about discrimination and that is unfair. I made a choice to not be Catholic. The results of my choice limit my ability to teach.

This guy made a choice to be uncomfortable by calling someone by a fucking name they want to be called by. The results of that choice? He can no longer teach at that school.
---

He should take this to SCOTUS.
---

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Again, as a teacher, I will say that basically if a school implements new policy in how to address students and you decide that you cannot abide by that, you are free to do that. The school is free to fire you for it too.

As an educator this guy kinda sickens me. He will call everyone by their last name just to avoid calling someone by their preferred first name? That is ridiculous and appalling, and to suggest that students won't understand why he is doing it is really disrespectful.

Basically, if the school were to allow this to continue after deciding to make the policy go into effect it would undermine everything they are trying to do.

If the guy simply cannot follow this policy, then go get a job elsewhere that doesn't have this policy. I can't work in the Catholic School Division because I'm not Catholic. You don't see me crying about discrimination and that is unfair. I made a choice to not be Catholic. The results of my choice limit my ability to teach.

This guy made a choice to be uncomfortable by calling someone by a f***ing name they want to be called by. The results of that choice? He can no longer teach at that school.

The school is not free to fire him before the policy is even in effect. That's ludicrous. I'm pretty sure firing an employee today because 3 months from now they will have retroactively broken a rule that isn't actually in effect yet would be wrongful termination for any company or institution.

By his own words, he used last names because he wanted to avoid taking a political stance either way on the issue. Unless you want to lay the legal foundation for Trump and Devos to start forcing teachers to uphold conservative values in public schools, you should probably support his right to neutrality.

Whether the kids understood or not, none complained, so don't use them as a shield to defend the school's underhanded actions in trying to get him out before the policy even took effect.

Catholic schools are private, and this one is public, taxpayer funded and run by the state government. Completely different ballgame. And for that matter, based on a quick google search, Catholic schools actually will hire non-Catholic teachers, so I believe you're misinformed. This also makes them more tolerant of different opinions than this high school, which is funny and depressing.
---

I'm Canadian Snake, Catholic School Divisions where I am do not hire those who are not Catholic unless they cannot fill the position otherwise.

As for the policy not being in effect, from what I gather they were initially going to implement the policy in the new term and changed their minds. I don't believe any law is broken in that decision. You can claim it is unfair, sure, but no law is broken. If the policy is not in full legal effect, then yes he should have kept his job until the end of the term, I will 100% agree with that.

Granted, having him resign as opposed to being "fired" if the policy was officially/legally adopted within the last month is a better option for him, since it looks better in his employment records moving forward.
---

snake1989 posted...

I went and looked up an alternate source, and holy shit, the ABC article blatantly lies and leaves out all of the important details.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2018/06/05/transgender-student-policy-prompts-dispute-between-brownsburg-teacher-school/670265002/

TL;DR There was no actual student complaint, or any student involved AT ALL. Kluge had already been referring to ALL students, regardless of identity, by their last names, and not telling them why so as to preserve a neutral environment and avoid forcing his beliefs on his students. The school had agreed to this, and later changed their mind and decided that the policy next year would mandate usage of preferred first names. The school district threatened to fire him 3 weeks before the end of the current school year if he didn't willingly resign, months before the policy will even be implemented and without any actual complaints or incidents to justify the firing. So he handed in a tentative letter of resignation with instructions not to officially submit it until the 29th so that he could at least finish out the school year, but on the 25th when he requested to withdraw his resignation they instead locked him out of his e-mail, accepted his resignation against his will, and posted his job position.

I take back what I said. The school is completely in the wrong here. He wasn't harming any students, he was treating everyone exactly the same, he wasn't discussing his views with any students, and he was following the policy that he and the school had already agreed to. It seems the school decided to force him out as fast as they possibly could, and engaged in underhanded tactics to do so.

Well that's a lot different. Yeesh

I hate the media sometimes
---

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

I'm Canadian Snake, Catholic School Divisions where I am do not hire those who are not Catholic unless they cannot fill the position otherwise.

As for the policy not being in effect, from what I gather they were initially going to implement the policy in the new term and changed their minds. I don't believe any law is broken in that decision. You can claim it is unfair, sure, but no law is broken. If the policy is not in full legal effect, then yes he should have kept his job until the end of the term, I will 100% agree with that.

Granted, having him resign as opposed to being "fired" if the policy was officially/legally adopted within the last month is a better option for him, since it looks better in his employment records moving forward.

Well, this is a school in the US, so I'm not sure why you brought up how things work in Canada. I disagree with schools of any kind being able to hire or fire people based on them expressing political or religious neutrality, especially publicly funded ones.

My problem with the resignation angle is that it seems like they threatened to fire him immediately in order to pressure him to resign instead, which seems to be a way for them to avoid the consequences of a wrongful termination. And then they accepted his resignation against his will when he had specifically requested to retract it before the effective date. It's slimy, and I don't believe for a second they were thinking about the wellbeing of him or the students when they made that decision.
---

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

snake1989 posted...

I went and looked up an alternate source, and holy s***, the ABC article blatantly lies and leaves out all of the important details.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2018/06/05/transgender-student-policy-prompts-dispute-between-brownsburg-teacher-school/670265002/

TL;DR There was no actual student complaint, or any student involved AT ALL. Kluge had already been referring to ALL students, regardless of identity, by their last names, and not telling them why so as to preserve a neutral environment and avoid forcing his beliefs on his students. The school had agreed to this, and later changed their mind and decided that the policy next year would mandate usage of preferred first names. The school district threatened to fire him 3 weeks before the end of the current school year if he didn't willingly resign, months before the policy will even be implemented and without any actual complaints or incidents to justify the firing. So he handed in a tentative letter of resignation with instructions not to officially submit it until the 29th so that he could at least finish out the school year, but on the 25th when he requested to withdraw his resignation they instead locked him out of his e-mail, accepted his resignation against his will, and posted his job position.

I take back what I said. The school is completely in the wrong here. He wasn't harming any students, he was treating everyone exactly the same, he wasn't discussing his views with any students, and he was following the policy that he and the school had already agreed to. It seems the school decided to force him out as fast as they possibly could, and engaged in underhanded tactics to do so.

Well that's a lot different. Yeesh

I hate the media sometimes

Same. This really pisses me off. I was reluctantly ready to side with the school if there was an actual student being harmed, because I do believe speech rights end where direct harm to someone else begins. But ABC distorting the story to make the teacher look worse is just terrible reporting, and even if not intentional, it also helps the school get away with any wrongdoing.
---

At the end of it all we need to have all the facts. If they haven't enacted the actual policy yet, this is a really poor way to treat an employee who is technically following the rules.

What I know is that as an educator, this man is honestly a bit repulsive. He hides behind freedom of expression and religion to basically try to weasel his way out of calling someone by their preferred name. That student and their decision (which has nothing to do with him, his ability to teach, or their ability to participate in his class) is so abhorrent that he resorted to asking the school if he can call all students by their last name.

As much as he argues that he didn't want it to "become an issue", he made it an issue when he changed his entire way of addressing students just so he wouldn't have to come across as if he approved of THEIR PRIVATE FUCKING DECISION. The article made it quite clear that he used to call all students by their first names and changed to the last, and avoided telling the students why.

Obviously students questioned him, he just avoided it. Why? Cause he didn't want to politicize his opinions? Yeah, he wants to avoid it with the students, but then find every way he can work himself around the policy they are writing up.

I get the argument that it was a bullshit thing to do if the actual policy has not been enacted yet. It's just as scummy for this bigot to find ways around the policy because he doesn't want to feel uncomfortable.

They should have allowed him the opportunity to finish the semester, and then resign. Especially if the policy was not in effect. You don't break the rules yourself just because someone else is trying to game the system.
---

ShutTheF---_Up posted...

snake1989 posted...

I went and looked up an alternate source, and holy shit, the ABC article blatantly lies and leaves out all of the important details.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/education/2018/06/05/transgender-student-policy-prompts-dispute-between-brownsburg-teacher-school/670265002/

TL;DR There was no actual student complaint, or any student involved AT ALL. Kluge had already been referring to ALL students, regardless of identity, by their last names, and not telling them why so as to preserve a neutral environment and avoid forcing his beliefs on his students. The school had agreed to this, and later changed their mind and decided that the policy next year would mandate usage of preferred first names. The school district threatened to fire him 3 weeks before the end of the current school year if he didn't willingly resign, months before the policy will even be implemented and without any actual complaints or incidents to justify the firing. So he handed in a tentative letter of resignation with instructions not to officially submit it until the 29th so that he could at least finish out the school year, but on the 25th when he requested to withdraw his resignation they instead locked him out of his e-mail, accepted his resignation against his will, and posted his job position.

I take back what I said. The school is completely in the wrong here. He wasn't harming any students, he was treating everyone exactly the same, he wasn't discussing his views with any students, and he was following the policy that he and the school had already agreed to. It seems the school decided to force him out as fast as they possibly could, and engaged in underhanded tactics to do so.

Well that's a lot different. Yeesh

I hate the media sometimes

not the medias fault you bare minimum tolerance lot keep falling for the same shit.

not that your lot really care for facts to begin with.
---

Cool story sis. Go whine about tipping and people who don't like racism some more
---

The decline continues.
---

implying the likes of the bare minimum tolerance group can get any lower than they already are
---

sjws are like locusts

the damage is done. they move on to the next potential victim.
---

Call me T Dwag or resign from teaching
---

well darn. what a shame /s

edit: oh wait, got fooled by clickbait article title
---