Current Events > Why are Americans so scared of the word socialism?

(+) Yeah! (+)

People don't like socialism because they like to see other people suffer, plain and simple. If we had socialism here we'd get all of our shit for free.You'd never have to worry about working or getting sick again. Video games would be free. In other words, conservatives would lose their fucking minds.
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ThunderTrain posted...

Because it's better to charge people $10,000 to visit a hospital and drown people in debt for an education.

Considering the standard of living and state of economy in America, it actually is.
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HypnoCoosh posted...

mario2000 posted...

tolerate capitalism

*posts from iPhone or computer wearing $100 sneakers and $70 hoodie oh and $200 jeans*

*leaves house in automobile to drive to Jimmy Johns for lunch before putting gas in the car*

*stops off at store on the way home to grab the new GoW for PS4 and figure it's a good idea to get some energy drinks and snacks for later*

Fucking capitalism.

You don't need any of that shit though. Look at communist countries. People spend all day waiting in line for bread because at the end of the day that's all you really need - bread.
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REMercsChamp posted...

In other words, conservatives would lose their fucking minds.

No they wouldn't. They'd just leave.

Institute a planet-wide tax, and I guarantee you there would be a colony on the moon within a year.

Lack of economics education coupled with propaganda lovers.
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everything in moderation. small elements of socialism typically work well in combination with other things. once you go full bore into it is when things get bad, much like everything. the problem is figuring out when the cut off is.

HypnoCoosh posted...

mario2000 posted...

tolerate capitalism

*posts from iPhone or computer wearing $100 sneakers and $70 hoodie oh and $200 jeans*

*leaves house in automobile to drive to Jimmy Johns for lunch before putting gas in the car*

*stops off at store on the way home to grab the new GoW for PS4 and figures it's a good idea to get some energy drinks and snacks for later*

Fucking capitalism.

Why are you listing off stuff you did today?
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Kineth posted...

Lack of economics education coupled with propaganda lovers.

Remind us which Socialist economy is better than America.
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HypnoCoosh posted...

mario2000 posted...

tolerate capitalism

*posts from iPhone or computer wearing $100 sneakers and $70 hoodie oh and $200 jeans*

*leaves house in automobile to drive to Jimmy Johns for lunch before putting gas in the car*

*stops off at store on the way home to grab the new GoW for PS4 and figures it's a good idea to get some energy drinks and snacks for later*

Fucking capitalism.

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Dark_Spiret posted...

everything in moderation. small elements of socialism typically work well in combination with other things. once you go full bore into it is when things get bad, much like everything. the problem is figuring out when the cut off is.

"socialism is when the government does stuff. the more they do, the socialister it is." Karl Marx
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darkjedilink posted...

Kineth posted...

Lack of economics education coupled with propaganda lovers.

Remind us which Socialist economy is better than America.

"Us"? Is the echo chamber in your head so big that you really think this posturing makes you more than one person?

Also, the American has socialist elements in it so give me a non-braindead question.
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At least in socialist countries people actually CARE about each other. In capitalist countries if you can't go into work into some BULLSHIT job doing FUCK ALL then people would gladly see you starving on the streets and being homeless. In socialist countries they look out for one another.
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Because Socialist is a ghost type pokemon and ghosts are scary. When it evolves into Communist, it looks even scarier.
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darkjedilink posted...

Because capitalism is voluntary.

Eh, you have some choice in what cog you will be, but you don't really have an option to not be a cog. Well, I guess you can, but that option always exists since no one can actually force you to do anything.
Society as a whole expects you to be doing something and in return you get compensation that is valued less than the work you provided.
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DevsBro posted...

But for the second part, how does increasing taxes bring wages up?

It doesn't. I brought that up to illustrate how despite paying less taxes, and state money returning to the private sector, the vast majority of that money are going to corporations. Individuals aren't actually taking home anymore money than they did twenty-five years ago. A lot of young parents my age are trying to send their kids to charter schools or private schools, because OKCPS are under-performing and the state shows no intention of changing that, just lip service. So your money is worth less than it was in 1990, and you're paying for things you didn't have to thirty years ago.

I don't think it would be easy. But if a collective sacrifice could reverse these trends, I would support it wholeheartedly.
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uwnim posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Because capitalism is voluntary.

Eh, you have some choice in what cog you will be, but you don't really have an option to not be a cog. Well, I guess you can, but that option always exists since no one can actually force you to do anything.
Society as a whole expects you to be doing something and in return you get compensation that is valued less than the work you provided.

Preach!!!!

This guy gets it. He fucking get its. You capitalists think it's fair that the guy bagging your groceries gets paid minimum wage? The company is selling those products for $5 a pop or more. They should be paid the exact cost of all of the items they scanned up that day. Only then is it fair for the workers.
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averagejoel posted...

The guy in the last panel got to be on an album cover, though.

hollow_shrine posted...

DevsBro posted...

But for the second part, how does increasing taxes bring wages up?

It doesn't. I brought that up to illustrate how despite paying less taxes, and state money returning to the private sector, the vast majority of that money are going to corporations. Individuals aren't actually taking home anymore money than they did twenty-five years ago. A lot of young parents my age are trying to send their kids to charter schools or private schools, because OKCPS are under-performing and the state shows no intention of changing that, just lip service. So your money is worth less than it was in 1990, and you're paying for things you didn't have to thirty years ago.

I don't think it would be easy. But if a collective sacrifice could reverse these trends, I would support it wholeheartedly.

it would be a collective benefit for the vast majority of people
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Questionmarktarius posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

In other words, conservatives would lose their fucking minds.

No they wouldn't. They'd just leave.

Institute a planet-wide tax, and I guarantee you there would be a colony on the moon within a year.

That makes a planet wide tax very appealing, tbqh
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REMercsChamp posted...

fair

You do realize low wage workers already get subsidies from the local, state, and federal governments?

People always have the CHOICE to change their lives if they are unhappy.
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Conservatives can't stand the thought of socialism because their worst nightmare is not seeing people slaving away to make them rich
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HypnoCoosh posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

fair

You do realize low wage workers already get subsidies from the local, state, and federal governments?

People always have the CHOICE to change their lives if they are unhappy.

Welfare cliffs, tho.

HypnoCoosh posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

fair

You do realize low wage workers already get subsidies from the local, state, and federal governments?

People always have the CHOICE to change their lives if they are unhappy.

individuals changing their lives doesn't address the problem though
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HypnoCoosh posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

fair

You do realize low wage workers already get subsidies from the local, state, and federal governments?

People always have the CHOICE to change their lives if they are unhappy.

Funny you highlight the word "fair" then use examples of food stamps and welfare.

FAIR is giving the guy scanning the items the exact cost of the items or MORE. If he scans up $5000 worth of groceries that day then he should be paid $5000 that day. End of discussion.
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uwnim posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Because capitalism is voluntary.

Eh, you have some choice in what cog you will be, but you don't really have an option to not be a cog. Well, I guess you can, but that option always exists since no one can actually force you to do anything.
Society as a whole expects you to be doing something and in return you get compensation that is valued less than the work you provided.

All the millions of people killed to implement socialism and communism throughout history would say they had a choice?

In a capitalist society, it's impossible for you to be paid less than what your labor is worth.
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darkjedilink posted...

All the millions of people killed to implement socialism and communism throughout history would say they had a choice?

I have some interesting news for you about how capitalism was implemented.
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darkjedilink posted...

In a capitalist society, it's impossible for you to be paid less than what your labor is worth.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAAHA

LMAO

haahahahaah

imagine believing this
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REMercsChamp posted...

uwnim posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Because capitalism is voluntary.

Eh, you have some choice in what cog you will be, but you don't really have an option to not be a cog. Well, I guess you can, but that option always exists since no one can actually force you to do anything.
Society as a whole expects you to be doing something and in return you get compensation that is valued less than the work you provided.

Preach!!!!

This guy gets it. He fucking get its. You capitalists think it's fair that the guy bagging your groceries gets paid minimum wage? The company is selling those products for $5 a pop or more. They should be paid the exact cost of all of the items they scanned up that day. Only then is it fair for the workers.

How would you pay the person stocking the shelves then? Plus there's the cost of actually getting the product and maintaining the facility. Sure you could do a zero-profit system, but it would be more complicated that what you are thinking.
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Antifar posted...

darkjedilink posted...

All the millions of people killed to implement socialism and communism throughout history would say they had a choice?

I have some interesting news for you about how capitalism was implemented.

Capitalism is as old as society. Bartering in ancient times is capitalism.
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REMercsChamp posted...

HypnoCoosh posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

fair

You do realize low wage workers already get subsidies from the local, state, and federal governments?

People always have the CHOICE to change their lives if they are unhappy.

Funny you highlight the word "fair" then use examples of food stamps and welfare.

FAIR is giving the guy scanning the items the exact cost of the items or MORE. If he scans up $5000 worth of groceries that day then he should be paid $5000 that day. End of discussion.

Sure, and his profit for the day will be what's left after he's covered the cost of those groceries.

uwnim posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

uwnim posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Because capitalism is voluntary.

Eh, you have some choice in what cog you will be, but you don't really have an option to not be a cog. Well, I guess you can, but that option always exists since no one can actually force you to do anything.
Society as a whole expects you to be doing something and in return you get compensation that is valued less than the work you provided.

Preach!!!!

This guy gets it. He fucking get its. You capitalists think it's fair that the guy bagging your groceries gets paid minimum wage? The company is selling those products for $5 a pop or more. They should be paid the exact cost of all of the items they scanned up that day. Only then is it fair for the workers.

How would you pay the person stocking the shelves then? Plus there's the cost of actually getting the product and maintaining the facility. Sure you could do a zero-profit system, but it would be more complicated that what you are thinking.

He gets paid the exact cost of the items as well. It's not FAIR for these people to be paid minimum wage while the rich piece of shit CEO does FUCK ALL and gets paid all that money!!!!!
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To be fair, Americans should fear capitalism too.

Nothing actually works, it's all lies, especially to the lower class.
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Paper_Okami posted...

darkjedilink posted...

In a capitalist society, it's impossible for you to be paid less than what your labor is worth.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAAHA

LMAO

haahahahaah

imagine believing this

How are people being paid less than the worth of their labor?
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darkjedilink posted...

Paper_Okami posted...

darkjedilink posted...

In a capitalist society, it's impossible for you to be paid less than what your labor is worth.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAAHA

LMAO

haahahahaah

imagine believing this

How are people being paid less than the worth of their labor?

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
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uwnim posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

uwnim posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Because capitalism is voluntary.

Eh, you have some choice in what cog you will be, but you don't really have an option to not be a cog. Well, I guess you can, but that option always exists since no one can actually force you to do anything.
Society as a whole expects you to be doing something and in return you get compensation that is valued less than the work you provided.

Preach!!!!

This guy gets it. He fucking get its. You capitalists think it's fair that the guy bagging your groceries gets paid minimum wage? The company is selling those products for $5 a pop or more. They should be paid the exact cost of all of the items they scanned up that day. Only then is it fair for the workers.

How would you pay the person stocking the shelves then? Plus there's the cost of actually getting the product and maintaining the facility. Sure you could do a zero-profit system, but it would be more complicated that what you are thinking.

it isn't as simple as the cashier getting all the money from things they sell. REM knows this, but is attacking this incorrect notion regardless of the truth
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darkjedilink posted...

How are people being paid less than the worth of their labor?

wage theft
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darkjedilink posted...

All the millions of people killed to implement socialism and communism throughout history would say they had a choice?

In a capitalist society, it's impossible for you to be paid less than what your labor is worth.

Everyone has choices, sometimes they all suck.

In a capitalist society, you have to be paid less than the value of your work otherwise the company fails. In order to make money, the cost to make a product or provide a service has to be less than the end value. If a worker costs more to employ than you get out of them, the most reasonable action is to eliminate them and if the position was actually needed, obtain a cheaper replacement.
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I seriously cannot tell if darkjedilink is being disingenuous on purpose or if he really is that sheltered and naive.
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halomonkey1_3_5 posted...

wage theft

i.e. taxation
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uwnim posted...

darkjedilink posted...

All the millions of people killed to implement socialism and communism throughout history would say they had a choice?

In a capitalist society, it's impossible for you to be paid less than what your labor is worth.

Everyone has choices, sometimes they all suck.

In a capitalist society, you have to be paid less than the value of your work otherwise the company fails. In order to make money, the cost to make a product or provide a service has to be less than the end value. If a worker costs more to employ than you get out of them, the most reasonable action is to eliminate them and if the position was actually needed, obtain a cheaper replacement.

Well then why not just continue paying the people and bankrupt the company? I'm sure we'll all be crying about a temporarily embarrassed billionaire CEO who had to find another job.
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mario2000 posted...

sheltered and naive.

Looks who's talking
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HypnoCoosh posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

fair

You do realize low wage workers already get subsidies from the local, state, and federal governments?

People always have the CHOICE to change their lives if they are unhappy.

The subsidies wouldn't be required if the company they worked for paid a sufficient wage for the work performed.

Anyway. Damn near every topic I see about this winds up a false dichotomy before falling off the rails.

The need to survive versus the desire to thrive.

I'm going to set up two strawmen for a moment.

Pure capitalism - portrayed here - assumes everyone has the same opportunity and ability to not just survive, but be successful, and assumes that the rich will fulfill a moral obligation to help those who cannot survive on their own. Worst-case - a few haves and millions of have-nots in perpetual serfdom.

Pure socialism - portrayed here - assumes that with the safety net secured, people will still have the motivation to excel for excellence's own sake, for society's benefit rather than their own individual benefit. Worst-case - everyone equally miserable, hungry and unmotivated.

Thankfully, there are myriad other choices available between these extremes.
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HypnoCoosh posted...

mario2000 posted...

sheltered and naive.

Looks who's talking

A response worthy enough to be uttered from the mouth of your orange messiah.
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HypnoCoosh posted...

halomonkey1_3_5 posted...

wage theft

i.e. profit

fixed
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The23rdMagus posted...

The subsidies wouldn't be required if the company they worked for paid a sufficient wage for the work performed.

They get paid what the market dictates.

Want to be worth more invest in yourself or your skills. i.e. make good decisions.

The subsidies are already SOCIALISM. That's the whole point and if you read the thread you would see my first post to OP was people hate the word "socialism" because they hate taxes.

FFS.
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averagejoel posted...

HypnoCoosh posted...

halomonkey1_3_5 posted...

wage theft

i.e. profit

fixed

Ah yes heaven forbid companies actually try to be profitable and create jobs and employment. Imagine all the awesome shit we wouldn't have if capitalism wasn't around to motivate people to do cool shit.
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HypnoCoosh posted...

They get paid what the market dictates.

Want more to be worth more invest in yourself or your skills. i.e. make good decisions.

So while the job is necessary, people who do it shouldn't make enough to survive without government subsidies?
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HypnoCoosh posted...

Ah yes heaven forbid companies actually try to be profitable and create jobs and employment. Imagine all the awesome shit we wouldn't have if capitalism wasn't around to motivate people to do cool shit.

You have almost seen the real problem we have.
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