Current Events > I hate that "toxic masculinity" has become a buzzword. It is real.

(+) Yeah! (+)

The concept of toxic masculinity is used in psychology and gender studies to refer to certain norms of masculine behavior in North America and Europe that are associated with harm to society and to men themselves. Traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant, along with related traits such as misogyny and homophobia, can be considered "toxic" due to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence. Other stereotypically masculine traits, such as self-reliance and the stifling of emotions, are correlated with increased psychological problems in men such as depression, increased stress, and substance abuse.

Scholars argue that the socialization of boys often normalizes violence, such as in the saying "boys will be boys" with regard to bullying and aggression.

Other traditionally masculine traits such as devotion to work, pride in excelling at sports, and providing for one's family, are not considered to be "toxic".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

feminism is a movement run by buzzwords
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foreveraIone posted...

feminism is a movement run by buzzwords

Buzzwords like "treating women with respect"?

CiIantro posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

lmao the page was created on November 3rd, 2016 by this guy:

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CiIantro posted...

foreveraIone posted...

feminism is a movement run by buzzwords

Buzzwords like "treating women with respect"?

No buzzwords like "all men are scum".
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That term is mostly bullshit. I mean think about how they speak about holding back emotions. Yet the same people who use the term Toxic Masculinity are the first people to the use... "Male Tears" or fragile Male Ego.
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Seeing men decry toxic masculinity in a way that just perpetuates it makes me sad.
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cjsdowg posted...

That term is mostly bullshit. I mean think about how they speak about holding back emotions. Yet the same people who use the term Toxic Masculinity are the first people to the use... "Male Tears" or fragile Male Ego.

You appear to be incapable of processing how you about this, likely due to an unwillingness to acknowledge harm that such roles have played in your development, and as such resort to a base emotion you ARE capable of experiencing. That emotion being anger. Which is to say, your ego is unwilling or unable to take a hit or even acknowledge any flaws you might have, it being a masculine ego notwithstanding.
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cjsdowg posted...

That term is mostly bullshit. I mean think about how they speak about holding back emotions. Yet the same people who use the term Toxic Masculinity are the first people to the use... "Male Tears" or fragile Male Ego.

Telling your young son that boys aren't allowed to cry is bad parenting.

Figures feminists would consider self-reliance as something 'toxic'.
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men shouldn't cry so much
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foreveraIone posted...

men shouldn't cry so much

only because no one will care if you (not you specifically) do or don't

Toxicity is quite real, but it is not exclusive to men.
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Toxic masculinity is basically gang culture that exists in cities where young men join the gangs due to a lack of a father figure.

Most of the Internet nonsense calling traditional masculinity "toxic" is just a misuse by radical feminists and emasculated guys wanted to take jabs at people they're jealous of.
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Toxic masculinity is a thing, and so is weaponized femininity.

An example of the latter would be a girl making an argument, and another girl making fun of her looks/presentation (haha well your eyeliner is off xD) rather than addressing her points.

The Admiral posted...

Toxic masculinity is basically gang culture that exists in cities where young men join the gangs due to a lack of a father figure.

That's not it at all.

It's negative behavior of men who behave that way due to perceived societal expectations of men.
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I don't think self-reliance is toxic, but most of the others make sense. The problem is that there are places and times where men need to be socially and physically dominant, and those men are now going to be seen as "toxic," despite needing to be that way for their professions.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

The Admiral posted...

Toxic masculinity is basically gang culture that exists in cities where young men join the gangs due to a lack of a father figure.

That's not it at all.

It's negative behavior of men who behave that way due to perceived societal expectations of men.

Gang culture is epitomized by the quote in the OP:

Traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant, along with related traits such as misogyny and homophobia, can be considered "toxic" due to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence

Young men in gangs act out with violence and misogyny as a way to assert their "masculinity" because that's what their surrounding gang culture has taught them.
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The Admiral posted...

Young men in gangs act out with violence and misogyny as a way to assert their "masculinity" because that's what their surrounding gang culture has taught them.

Yes but you don't have to actually join a gang. You can behave that way on your own perfectly fine.
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Conflict posted...

FaultyGourry posted...

Figures feminists would consider self-reliance as something 'toxic'.

It figures your reading comprehension is too garbage to grasp that it's not saying masculinity is toxic

No, it's just saying certain masculine stereotypes (such as self-reliance) are. Did you even read the OP and my post or are you just going full defense mode from the start?
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But anyway, I agree that toxic masculinity is a real thing. However, just like with "rape culture," which is also a real thing, the people using those terms on the Internet are conveniently misapplying them to the wrong groups and actions.

I remember a topic we had on this a long time ago, and someone tried to argue that it should be perfectly fine for a man to openly cry at work if he's having a bad day, and that it was "toxic masculinity" that caused him to think he couldn't do that or that others would negatively judge. That was a perfect example of the kind of misuse I'm referring to.
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The Admiral posted...

I remember a topic we had on this a long time ago, and someone tried to argue that it should be perfectly fine for a man to openly cry at work if he's having a bad day, and that it was "toxic masculinity" that caused him to think he couldn't do that or that others would negatively judge. That was a perfect example of the kind of misuse I'm referring to.

Yeah I mean if you're literally crying at work you need to be with a therapist or other support group, not at work.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

The Admiral posted...

I remember a topic we had on this a long time ago, and someone tried to argue that it should be perfectly fine for a man to openly cry at work if he's having a bad day, and that it was "toxic masculinity" that caused him to think he couldn't do that or that others would negatively judge. That was a perfect example of the kind of misuse I'm referring to.

Yeah I mean if you're literally crying at work you need to be with a therapist or other support group, not at work.

Id agree, but thats because its unprofessional and if shits that bad its either a tragedy or you need help.

Not because men shouldnt cry at work.

I also feel the need to point out how admiral attempted to shift the conversation to black peoples with the gang culture comment and acted like that was the sole example of toxic masculinity.

But I will agree that, cultural apporpation and a few other terms are used by a general public that doesnt have a solid grasp on them conceptually
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Here's a movie about real toxic masculinity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_in_the_Water
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Straight dudes thinking basic fucking hygeine is "gay" is a pretty good example
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gamepimp12 posted...

I also feel the need to point out how admiral attempted to shift the conversation to black peoples with the gang culture comment and acted like that was the sole example of toxic masculinity.

I'm going to point out that you made an assumption here that gangs are only made up of black people.

That's not true at all, and you probably want to pull back on your racial projection.
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Its not really a valid term though
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^You're living up to your username
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butthole666 posted...

Straight dudes thinking basic fucking hygeine is "gay" is a pretty good example

Lol wut???
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Biologically boys are actually generally more likely to be aggressive due to hormones.

Boys will be boys is a stupid thing to say in regards to bullying yeah but there is some truth to it.
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The Admiral posted...

Toxic masculinity is basically gang culture that exists in cities where young men join the gangs due to a lack of a father figure.

True, but even here I think you can make the argument that the entire problem isn't gender specific. It's more like a cycle of degeneracy that includes women having reckless sex with unreliable men, and unstable/selfish men bailing on those unstable/selfish women. The kids end up in households with angry and immature women that don't want to be parents.

The origin of the problem isn't toxic masculinity or toxic femininity. It all starts with the welfare state offloading the consequences of bad decisions onto society as a whole.

Edit: Some users may take issue with my description of poor single moms as "angry". I made this connection because single motherhood is correlated with higher rates of corporal punishment.
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I've never heard anyone say "boys will be boys" in the actual context of dismissing bad behavior. Only ever hear it referenced as something that supposedly happens. I mean it's no longer the 1950s.
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ViewtifulGrave posted...

butthole666 posted...

Straight dudes thinking basic fucking hygeine is "gay" is a pretty good example

Lol wut???

I think he's confusing things like guys getting pedicures and spending hundreds of dollars on skin moisturizers and hair product with "basic hygiene." I've literally never once heard a guy called "gay" because he took showers regularly.
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SuperCat1187 posted...

I've never heard anyone say "boys will be boys" in the actual context of dismissing bad behavior. Only ever hear it referenced as something that supposedly happens. I mean it's no longer the 1950s.

A lot of women grew up hearing that excuse when they tried to make adults aware of boys' bad behavior.
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Where do feminists think that "toxic masculinity" and "rape culture" come from? Children generally spend more time with their mothers than their fathers. Then when they enter school they go into an environment that is run by females, for females (considering how often boys are medicated for not acting like girls). Is the dreaded patriarchy so powerful that it completely overwhelms the predominantly female influence that children have while growing up?
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Cute girls at work are distracting.
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tennisdude818 posted...

Where do feminists think that "toxic masculinity" and "rape culture" come from? Children generally spend more time with their mothers than their fathers. Then when they enter school they go into an environment that is run by females, for females (considering how often boys are medicated for not acting like girls). Is the dreaded patriarchy so powerful that it completely overwhelms the predominantly female influence that children have while growing up?

That's the idea, yeah. Most feminists acknowledge that not every woman is "woke".
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Toxic progressiveness
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scar the 1 posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Where do feminists think that "toxic masculinity" and "rape culture" come from? Children generally spend more time with their mothers than their fathers. Then when they enter school they go into an environment that is run by females, for females (considering how often boys are medicated for not acting like girls). Is the dreaded patriarchy so powerful that it completely overwhelms the predominantly female influence that children have while growing up?

That's the idea, yeah. Most feminists acknowledge that not every woman is "woke".

Most women are on the left, which is "woke" by feminist standards. I guess they just aren't far enough to the left?

My guess is that feminists would blame corporate influences that somehow overwhelm the female influence that children have. This would explain why feminism has become socialism with panties.
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This is a result of Marxism.
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Example of a distracting girl at work

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It's a buzzword used to dumb down discussion and nothing more. Instead of actual, nuanced discussion on the topics of masculinity and femininity, it just assumed feminine traits are good and masculine traits are bad by those that actually use the term in wider discussion. It's no different than blaming the "patriarchy" for everything. There is probably a proper usage for the term somewhere, but nobody who actively uses it would ever bother trying to use it that way.

tennisdude818 posted...

Most women are on the left, which is "woke" by feminist standards. I guess they just aren't far enough to the left?

My guess is that feminists would blame corporate influences that somehow overwhelm the female influence that children have. This would explain why feminism has become socialism with panties.

Who gets assigned blame in this instance varies a little bit depending on the flavor of feminism. However, the bottom line is the same: patriarchy gets the blame. Everyone is a product of the patriarchy. That's one of the fundamental characteristics that is often misunderstood; the patriarchy isn't a conspiracy between evil men, it's a deeply rooted structure that's been around and has grown stronger for thousands of years.
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nemu posted...

It's a buzzword used to dumb down discussion and nothing more. Instead of actual, nuanced discussion on the topics of masculinity and femininity, it just assumed feminine traits are good and masculine traits are bad by those that actually use the term in wider discussion. It's no different than blaming the "patriarchy" for everything. There is probably a proper usage for the term somewhere, but nobody who actively uses it would ever bother trying to use it that way.

That somewhere is in the Muslim world.
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scar the 1 posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Most women are on the left, which is "woke" by feminist standards. I guess they just aren't far enough to the left?

My guess is that feminists would blame corporate influences that somehow overwhelm the female influence that children have. This would explain why feminism has become socialism with panties.

Who gets assigned blame in this instance varies a little bit depending on the flavor of feminism. However, the bottom line is the same: patriarchy gets the blame. Everyone is a product of the patriarchy. That's one of the fundamental characteristics that is often misunderstood; the patriarchy isn't a conspiracy between evil men, it's a deeply rooted structure that's been around and has grown stronger for thousands of years.

It sounds like I'm not off base when I describe inter-sectional feminism as a religion. The Patriarchy = Satan. It's an evil influence that is always present, and can only be resisted through greater adherence to the faith. Every problem an inter-sectional feminists sees simply serves as more confirmation that their religion is correct.
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