Board 8 > Just got done watching Infinity War *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

What I really liked:

Iron Man vs. Thanos. I'm a complete Iron Man mark, but I'll admit with the power-creep in this series, he feels like a guy that has less and less of a justification for hanging with these guys (outside of the more obvious ones like Captain America, the Winter Soldier, Black Widow, etc). So giving him this new nanomachine based suit kinda made me groan a bit, but you had to justify him being as strong as some of these guys since it's RDJ and he has to be a main character. But I think that was the best moment fight in the series, watching Iron Man use everything he could but getting a very visual representation of how he was wearing down as the suit gradually disappeared when the nanomachines get used up. And Thanos comment about "all this for a drop of blood" was really good.

The handling of Thor post-Ragnarok. I was kind of afraid he'd be another wise-cracking standard Marvel character when Ragnarok was so heavy with him being sarcastic, jokey, etc. They did a good job showcasing how much he had lost and the burden it left on him. He still cracks an occasional joke but it feels more uneasy and almost like he's forcing the humor to hide how distraught he is. I would honestly say this is the best version of Thor in every way, and he seemed like the only character willing to do whatever it took and sacrifice everything he could, nearly killing himself to create the weapon he needed with no hesitation.

Starlord fucking everything up was brilliant. The most defining characteristic of Quill is basically how emotionally driven he is by everything compared to the pragmatism of those around him, and in earlier GotG films it worked to his strength but for once it absolutely blew up in his face.

All the beards!

What I liked

Thanos. This is clearly "The Thanos Film." His motivation is just valid enough to make him interesting compared to other Marvel villains while being irrational enough to actively hate him. And him actually winning was a bold move for this series, even if I expect all of them to come back (even Loki and Gamora).

I think the pairings worked mostly well. Stark as a father figure to Peter, while at the same time having to relent to another wise, other gentleman in front of Peter. Thor, a character incredibly driven to end Thanos, paired off with two characters who seem like they couldn't care less. The remaining guardians getting in the standard "Avengers fight each other" scene with Strange, Stark, and Parker. Especially putting the most egotistical characters together, compared to the Earth brigade which is full of the most humble and down to earth characters (relatively, of course). The scenes on Earth did a lot to ground what was going on and give a sense of what was at stake. Obviously our standard "heroes vs. faceless villains" scene but it was fine.

Drax's humor was good, better than GotG2, I think. But when shit got real it got completely dropped and that was huge for me because he never stopped being a joke character in GotG2.

In general, the humor was solid. Nothing really groan-worthy and a lot of it happened fast enough that you never really dwell on how out of place it is to make jokes while the universe is at stake.

What I didn't like

In general, Vision and Scarlett Witch wasn't great. I think they needed to do more with them in previous movies rather than going "they're a couple now and it's a super strong bond." I also didn't like how quickly they glossed over Black Widow and Banner. Maybe it's an acknowledgement that it was kinda awkward to begin with, but considering they would spend the rest of the movie together taking a little more time with maybe Banner explaining his decision to flee to her in detail would have helped.

Action was a little too hard to follow at times, which is kinda natural in these films but this had so much.
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Thor was the best part of Infinity War, and pairing him up with Rocket the whole way helped both of them immensely. He got to be funny without actually trying to be funny with the "Rabbit" running gag.
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I love Thor as a funny character and think it works a lot better than most, but yeah I'm glad they made a point to show he can still be very serious, too
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LeonhartFour posted...

Thor was the best part of Infinity War, and pairing him up with Rocket the whole way helped both of them immensely. He got to be funny without actually trying to be funny with the "Rabbit" running gag.

It also ties into the fact that Rocket really isn't sure what he is, so it's just a figure of confusion more than him being legitimately upset with it.
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It's crazy what a turnaround Thor had just from Ragnarok and Infinity War. He went from one of the most boring characters in the MCU to one of the best so quickly.
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I also love the fact that Thor still believes Rocket is the leader of the Guardians. Some of Thor's best humor is honestly when he's not trying to be funny and he's just the "fish out of water" guy, which he got to be by being with the Guardians most of the movie.

also marked out super hard when Thor showed up on Earth

if I was the type of person who cheered and clapped during movies that would've been the time I'd have done it
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StealThisSheen posted...

I love Thor as a funny character and think it works a lot better than most, but yeah I'm glad they made a point to show he can still be very serious, too

I enjoy Thor in more of a fish-out-of-water sense which is why I actually did like the first Thor film. The third is the best one but I think it's more the strength of the supporting cast than Thor himself.

Like I remember being really annoyed in the first Avengers when he's saying something about Loki being his brother, they remark about the awful stuff he does and, in Whedon snark, responds "He's adopted."

Not everyone has to be clever and quip. The best humor comes from scenes like Peter hearing "I'm Dr. Strange" and going "Oh, we're using our made-up names? In that case, I am Spider-Man." or "I am Groot" "I am Steve Rogers." Stuff that fits entirely within the characters rather than everyone being a snarky asshole.
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Thor's funniest moment in the first Avengers is that brief look of panic in his eyes when it looks like Steve Rogers might actually be able to pick up the hammer
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LeonhartFour posted...

Thor's funniest moment in the first Avengers is that brief look of panic in his eyes when it looks like Steve Rogers might actually be able to pick up the hammer

That's Age of Ultron.
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To be fair, the first Thor suggested he was very much a snarky asshole before he lost his powers and got sent to Earth.

I think that's why I liked it in Ragnarok. It actually made sense. That was him before he lost his powers, and that was him again when he was feeling near invincible once more

I agree it's overdone with everybody snarking. I just think Thor is one of the ones that makes sense, since he can hit both snarky and "fish out of water" so well since it's in his character to do so.
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eh close enough
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Iron Man got the best group, Tony & Spider-man relationship is pretty great now, Strange was godly this movie, and GotG crew are stellar everywhere.

The group that stayed on Earth was the weaker team for sure, I agree that the Witch Vision relationship doesn't have the backing to care about but actually disagree that Hulk/Scarlet needed to go through more of their stuff again, with how long the film and vast its scope is the time's just better spent elsewhere.
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The axe looks kinda dumb, to be honest. I miss his hammer.
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Oh, Thor is absolutely the dude who's super powerful, knows it, and isn't afraid to let everybody else know it. I liked him a lot in Ragnarok, too, but in terms of humor, he was at his best in IW and the first Thor, I think.
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Thor has gone to one of my least-favorite MCU characters to one of my favorite. His development over the years has been top notch.
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I LOVE the Scarlet Witch Vision relationship. I was skeptical they would even attempt it despite their interactions in Civil War but it was great. Huge fan of Elizabeth Olsen.
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Just watched it. It was good for a Marvel movie, which is very much not a high bar.

It was somewhat more entertaining than I was expecting, and there was much less Marvel Humor that made me want to gouge my eyes out. I was actually into a couple scenes (like most of the aforementioned Team Titan* vs Thanos fight).

However, it was also significantly dumber than I thought it would be. So much of the movie was just unnecessary had characters been less moronic at various points. It was the epitome of "tactics over strategy". Why the fuck didn't Team Titan just fucking kill Thanos when they had the chance? Why the fuck did Scarlett Witch[?] completely forget why she was even there and leave Vision alone**? The only characters that seemed capable of long-term thinking were Thor and Doctor Strange, presumably, and that's a back-handed compliment at best; had Thor acted like everybody else, he would've gone into battle without a weapon.

And the ending meant absolutely nothing to me. Even without taking meta considerations into account (there are new Marvel movies coming out, Marvel is spineless in regards to character deaths, they don't want the fanbase to revolt, etc), it was abundantly clear that it wouldn't stick. The character who apparently acted the dumbest in giving in to Thanos also happened to be the one who saw into the future and said, essentially, that this was part of the plan at the end. As far as I'm concerned, the only deaths occurred at the beginning.

I did like a good amount of the movie, I'm just encouraged to be critical because other people here aren't, in general. My enjoyment was also somewhat soured by other people in the theater (including my friends) who did shit like chant along to the Wakanda stuff and just get overly excited about the mere existence of some characters or people getting thrown into things. Chill.

*why couldnt they give thanos's planet a name that wasn't already used for a significant moon in the solar system? i was really thrown off for a while

**the entire Wakanda part was kind of bad. They were worried about the beasts sneaking around back, but they only put like 2 guards in Vision's room. They could've spared a super. Apparently they didn't have a few kilotons of explosives lying around either, or napalm, or any WW2 style weapon that would've fucking melted the mindless goons. They blew their whole budget on cool laser spears that they abandoned when they would've been the most useful. How the hell did anybody know that the stone was in Wakanda, anyhow? Thanos being able to sense it I buy, but he was busy sacrificing his daughter or some shit. Also they called the stones molecular which just feels wrong.
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BTW, I know a lot of people ask why he didn't wish for infinite resources, but I kinda wonder if the gauntlet can do something like that. It seems to manipulate only things that already exist, not create new things. It could not make another Vision, it had to remake the Vision that already exist to get the Mind Stone, for example. Wiping out half the universe makes sense because it's simply getting rid of something, or reducing it to another form (i.e. turning them into ash).
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he turned lasers into bubbles i think he couldve turned rocks into food

You said his plan was just rational enough to justify but insane enough to hate. But his modus operandi prior to getting the stones was 100% nonsensical. He acts like people/aliens don't fuck. Sure, for a little while the population will be reduced, but 50 years ago we had half the population of today. It's not a long-term solution at all, unless he leaves a standing army behind which could've been used for far better purposes. And before the population rebounds it isn't like any place is going to be a paradise. Imagine if half of Earth's population suddenly died. It would be chaos for a least a decade, as food distribution is FUBAR, industry is demolished, etc. 10 years is generous taking into account any political aspects as discord promotes the rise of criminal cartels and despotism. Thanos is crazy, yes, but he's rational enough for strategy and to some extent being a leader and warlord. It doesn't take a heaping dose of rationality to see that what he was doing was complete fucking bullshit.
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I think Thanos would be the first acknowledge that his plan was limited in scale, hence his decision to go for a cosmic level annihilation instead of just going from planet to planet.

And considering he said Gamora's home world is now prospering thanks to his decision, he feels even more justified in his actions.
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NFUN posted...

How the hell did anybody know that the stone was in Wakanda, anyhow? Thanos being able to sense it I buy, but he was busy sacrificing his daughter or some shit. Also they called the stones molecular which just feels wrong.

They literally establish that they can track the stone at the very start of the movie.

NFUN posted...

Why the fuck did Scarlett Witch[?] completely forget why she was even there and leave Vision alone**?

Because everyone else was going to die if she didn't. It was the whole theme of the movie. Thanos is willing to sacrifice everything for what he sees as the greater good. Everyone else is not.
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red13n posted...

They literally establish that they can track the stone at the very start of the movie.

Sorry, I must've forgotten. It was a long movie. But then why did he need Gomorrah's[?] help to find the Soul Stone?

red13n posted...

Because everyone else was going to die if she didn't. It was the whole theme of the movie. Thanos is willing to sacrifice everything for what he sees as the greater good. Everyone else is not.

I think this is pretty dumb but I'll let it stand.
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NFUN posted...

However, it was also significantly dumber than I thought it would be. So much of the movie was just unnecessary had characters been less moronic at various points. It was the epitome of "tactics over strategy". Why the f*** didn't Team Titan just f***ing kill Thanos when they had the chance? Why the f*** did Scarlett Witch[?] completely forget why she was even there and leave Vision alone**? The only characters that seemed capable of long-term thinking were Thor and Doctor Strange, presumably, and that's a back-handed compliment at best; had Thor acted like everybody else, he would've gone into battle without a weapon.

Man it's easy to see why your opinions are so bad when your ideas are so dumb.

It's so weird when people suggest the "obvious thing to do" for the heroes. Why not just kill Thanos???? Well, did you not notice the part where he is nearly impervious to their attacks? Why did Scarlet Witch leave the Vision? Well, did you not notice the giant war outside that she felt needed her attention?

Like yeah you are watching the movie and can see that maybe the "right" thing for her to do was to defend the Vision (even though that's debatable, letting her army die seems bad), you know that she's a character within the movie and can only see things from her perspective? She doesn't have your perfect perspective and obviously perfect insight? She felt it was important to be near the Vision and protect him, both for the sake of the mind gem and because of her personal relationship with him, but also felt that her considerable abilities were needed by her allies at that time. It's ridiculous to state that characters are moronic because of decisions like this. They can only act on what they know.

It's just like the "well why doesn't Thanos make infinite resources?" thing people keep saying. Why do you think he can do that? he can undoubtedly create resources. He can probably make A LOT of resources. But why do you think he can make infinite resources? Enough for everybody everywhere forever? The snap clearly destroyed the gauntlet, which is a one time killing of half the universe, but apparently it's the obvious choice to just create infinite resources for everyone because he can do that?
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Scarlet Witch saved at least 3 named characters' lives by intervening in the army battle. The right thing to do from a completely utilitarian perspective would probably have been to stay by Vision, but I'm pretty sure you would be complaining just as much if she stood up there and shrugged as she watched her allies get massacred.
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I think sometimes people are so used to really obvious logical fallacies in movies that, just as a knee-jerk reaction, they'll complain about plot points that actually have perfectly rational explanations.
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Stabbing/slashing generally seemed to work on him. It was at least worth a shit for Strange to try to portal him in half or something, as his other attacks occasionally did work. They were smart enough to try to stun his hand while fighting, at least.

Scarlett was there for Vision. He was the reason they were in Wakanda in the first place. The mission was to destroy the stone, preferably with it not attached. She was where she belonged. At the very least she should have at least radioed in and told Kite Man or somebody that she'd be gone.

The problem with justifying her abandonment of Vision to save her friends out of some greater good point the movie was trying to make was that the stakes already are her friends. If his stone was captured, half her friends would die anyway, along with all of the other collateral damage. And the movie even reneges on this anyway, as both she and Quill eventually try sacrificing their allies to stop Thanos.

The argument about resources is (I assume) that if he can kill half of the sentient life in the Universe and turn energy and iron into bubbles he can turn a bunch of rocks and shit into food and resources. The former isn't a permanent goal (for very clear reasons I ranted about earlier), and neither is the latter. If he has to do one continuously, he can do the other. and somebody said that there were a trillion sentient lives at stake assuming that each planet has a billion inhabitants i think thanos has time to visit (2) thousand.

NBIceman posted...

I think sometimes people are so used to really obvious logical fallacies in movies that, just as a knee-jerk reaction, they'll complain about plot points that actually have perfectly rational explanations.

I'm actually terrible at noticing fallacies as they show up in movies (I'm great at scientific inaccuracies though!), and they usually need to be pointed out to me or are fridge logic moments. These were just fucking blatant to the point that they got in the way of the film.
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Thanos was more or less invincible and the best they threw at him barely managed to phase him. So no, it's highly unlikely they could have killed him even when he was completely stunned.

NFUN posted...

If his stone was captured, half her friends would die anyway

Cool. Now try being in the same situation and standing by and doing nothing as you literally watch your friends die in real time when you have the power to prevent it and Thanos is someone they literally haven't even seen yet.
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NFUN posted...

The problem with justifying her abandonment of Vision to save her friends out of some greater good point the movie was trying to make was that the stakes already are her friends. If his stone was captured, half her friends would die anyway, along with all of the other collateral damage. And the movie even reneges on this anyway, as both she and Quill eventually try sacrificing their allies to stop Thanos.

She doesn't sacrifice vision until its an absolute last resort. Time for other options is over.

Also if she doesn't leave vision, her friends just die first. And they don't move onto Vision until she
leaves, she obviously doesn't think Vision is in immediate danger, her friends most certainly were. She was one of the strongest player on the field at that point, unless I'm misremembering. The possibility of them winning the fight still exists(Thanos isn't even there with the other stones yet, is he? They have no idea its the last one he needs).

Quill -will- make the sacrifice and that is why Thanos comments that he likes him. Remember, Quill isn't part of the "We dont trade lives" group at that point.
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I'd probably run out and try to help them. And I'd rightfully be called a moron who potentially killed 3.5 billion people.

Bruce was there and he spent the whole movie hyping up Thanos's evil and was struggling with performance anxiety because of it. She knew the stakes. Maybe not specifically that half her friends would die, I don't remember what he knew, but she knew Thanos was going to have the power to write reality with those stones, and that the stakes her universal. Remember, she killed Vision later with no more knoeledge about Thanos or his ambitions besides the fact that he definitely exists, ie, he's killing all of her friends.
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NFUN posted...

I'd probably run out and try to help them. And I'd rightfully be called a moron who potentially killed 3.5 billion people.

Bruce was there and he spent the whole movie hyping up Thanos's evil and was struggling with performance anxiety because of it. She knew the stakes. Maybe not specifically that half her friends would die, I don't remember what he knew, but she knew Thanos was going to have the power to write reality with those stones, and that the stakes her universal. Remember, she killed Vision later with no more knoeledge about Thanos or his ambitions besides the fact that he definitely exists, ie, he's killing all of her friends.

He literally shows up needing 1 more stone. That changes the game quite a bit.
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red13n posted...

NFUN posted...

The problem with justifying her abandonment of Vision to save her friends out of some greater good point the movie was trying to make was that the stakes already are her friends. If his stone was captured, half her friends would die anyway, along with all of the other collateral damage. And the movie even reneges on this anyway, as both she and Quill eventually try sacrificing their allies to stop Thanos.

She doesn't sacrifice vision until its an absolute last resort. Time for other options is over.

Also if she doesn't leave vision, her friends just die first. And they don't move onto Vision until she
leaves, she obviously doesn't think Vision is in immediate danger, her friends most certainly were. She was one of the strongest player on the field at that point, unless I'm misremembering. The possibility of them winning the fight still exists(Thanos isn't even there with the other stones yet, is he? They have no idea its the last one he needs).

Quill -will- make the sacrifice and that is why Thanos comments that he likes him. Remember, Quill isn't part of the "We dont trade lives" group at that point.

Yes, they could have won the fight. The point is that they could still win the battle and lose the war if they defeat the mooks and minibosses with Vision having been captured (tactics vs strategy). Again, leaving him alone in general was bone headed. She could have borrowed a walkie talkie and given someone a heads up, but that'd have robbed her of her dramatic entrance. Vision wasn't necessarily in immediate danger, but purely considering the present without regard to consequences is... stupid.
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Thanos can absolutely make more resources, but that's missing the point. He doesn't just want to save the universe, he wants to do it HIS way. The people of Titan didn't listen to him and died. He tried it on Gamora's planet and it worked. Why would he consider any other options when he knew he was right all along? He's not out of touch, the rest of the universe is wrong!

or they'll just reveal he has a boner for Death in part 2
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NFUN posted...

Yes, they could have won the fight. The point is that they could still win the battle and lose the war if they defeat the mooks and minibosses with Vision having been captured (tactics vs strategy). Again, leaving him alone in general was bone headed. She could have borrowed a walkie talkie and given someone a heads up, but that'd have robbed her of her dramatic entrance. Vision wasn't necessarily in immediate danger, but purely considering the present without regard to consequences is... stupid.

Did you see what she did?

I'm pretty sure everyone knew she was on the field.

Also it was shown that everyone was on coms together. The communication -was- done.

The alternative is literally most everyone dies and its her vs everyone with Thanos eventually showing up anyway. Literally a much, much worse result.
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Thanos can absolutely make more resources, but that's missing the point. He doesn't just want to save the universe, he wants to do it HIS way. The people of Titan didn't listen to him and died. He tried it on Gamora's planet and it worked. Why would he consider any other options when he knew he was right all along? He's not out of touch, the rest of the universe is wrong!

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LeonhartFour posted...

if I was the type of person who cheered and clapped during movies that would've been the time I'd have done it

Im one of the guys who claps at the end of a movie and tries to get everyone to too, but this one one or two dudes were clapping at the end and we all kind of just gave them a stink eye because too soon man too soon
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TheRock1525 posted...

BTW, I know a lot of people ask why he didn't wish for infinite resources, but I kinda wonder if the gauntlet can do something like that. It seems to manipulate only things that already exist, not create new things. It could not make another Vision, it had to remake the Vision that already exist to get the Mind Stone, for example. Wiping out half the universe makes sense because it's simply getting rid of something, or reducing it to another form (i.e. turning them into ash).

his whole thing was that there is a finite system involved in the universe. The stones showed that they had their own rules, like the soul stone needing a sacrifice. So I dont think that just creating things was a thing that they could do, but eliminating things were much much more doable. He did a ton of manipulation, but no creating. If he had those abilities he could have just brought Gamora back right away
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Scarlett should've told people before she ran out so they wouldn't be caught with their pants down when they realized Vision was alone.

Thanos turned a laser shot into bubbles. And a knife into bubbles. Even ignoring that that thing breaks the law of conservation of energy, it's clearly capable of transmuting matter.
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I think it can only affect transmute things locally and temporarily.

Remember he turned Drax into blocks and Mantis into ribbons too, but once he left they went back to normal. In theory the knife and lasers reformed later, we just never saw that.
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NoFUN
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FFDragon posted...

I think it can only affect transmute things locally and temporarily.

Remember he turned Drax into blocks and Mantis into ribbons too, but once he left they went back to normal. In theory the knife and lasers reformed later, we just never saw that.

That was when he only had 3 stones, but fine. This wasn't even a complaint that I thought of when I was watching the movie (whenever when I said I'm bad at this sort of thing?).
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I have to say I agree with NFUN that the ending felt mostly meaningless to me. Obviously the Guardians and Spider-Man have to be revived for their upcoming movies, and there's no way they're going to leave Black Panther dead already when he just had a hugely successful movie, so it's like whatever. Like when a TV season finale tries to throw a huge plot twist to monumentally shake things up only for it to be immediately resolved in the next season premiere. I do feel like any of the Phase 1 characters are free game to permanently die by the end of Part 2, though. Which is funny since pretty much all of them survived Part 1.

Tom Holland's acting got a small emotional response from me, and there's an inherent "aww..." from Groot disappearing, but that was pretty much it.
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I don't think Marvel expects anyone to believe they're all really gone, even if they didn't get rid of all the new ones. It's just an excuse to give the original crew one last hurrah before many of them exit the stage.
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they expect kids to believe they might all really gone.

man i wish i was a kid right now
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oh yeah kids will believe it because they don't know any better yet

so it will still have the intended effect on one of their target audiences
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I'm kinda bummed that Captain America really didn't have a "moment" with Thanos. Of course he didn't have his proper shield so I assume at some point he's gonna get to smack Thanos in the face with it.
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I'm bummed that the whole movie wasn't Strange vs Thanos (although technically it was..?)
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That's fair.
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LeonhartFour posted...

I don't think Marvel expects anyone to believe they're all really gone, even if they didn't get rid of all the new ones. It's just an excuse to give the original crew one last hurrah before many of them exit the stage.

about 2/3 of the people leaving the theater seemed close to tears or were expressing how fucked the ending was
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It's obvious when you think about it that they aren't dead for good, but in the moment and like 30 minutes after it's pretty convincing

Especially since they let god damn Tony live
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