Current Events > People are trolling when they saw Final Fantasy XII sucks, right?

(+) Yeah! (+)

What's your setup for classes?
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BLM/SHI
K/(Undecided - probably archer for light armor and phoenix lores)
Mch/RDM
Ul/Mch
Monk/BLM
WM/TM

It's been okay so far. I was leaning on by Ulhan/Machinist to get me through most of the game, but now that I've got a Shikari with Shemhazai I don't really need another machinist. I kind of wish I had another time mage, but that class basically has to be paired with Black, Red, or White mages in minus mode because without their mystic armor you have no mp with which to spam haste.

The vast majority of weapons are also kind of useless. Elemental staves are good. Guns are good. The Karkata is good, the Gladius is good through Raithwall. Nothing else does damage, weapon wise. Magic is good for hitting weaknesses and ailments actually matter now. Also you can use the infamous 'reflect this' strategy from past FF titles to nuke bosses, It gets even better with an early indigo pendant and a black mage with sleep. The invisible weapons are supposedly still good in minus mode, but their stats render any difficulty in the game moot, make strategy obsolete. Minus mode really lays it out, just how much more important gear is than stats in this game.
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FFXII is the worst FF I've personally played, but that's like 5 or 6 games total, so
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Nearly twelve hours later I ran out of items and had to break my chain and return to the Cerobi Steppe to farm up some more Knots of Rust. I swear, it took me like 18 hours to do this last time, but I was younger then and this is really trying it.
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I hated vanilla ff12 with passion.
Here are a few of the reasons I hated it:

The two main characters have nothing to do with the story. If you took them out it would have progressed the same way.

MMO style combat in a single player rpg is awful.

Didn't like gambit system but playing w/o making use of it was tedious.

Traveling through the world was a pain in the ass.

I have not played the remake, MAYBE it fixed some of the things I hated
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Dustin1280 posted...

The two main characters have nothing to do with the story. If you took them out it would have progressed the same way.

this is not true, Vaan and Penelo were instrumental in the story so far.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

The two main characters have nothing to do with the story. If you took them out it would have progressed the same way.

this is not true, Vaan and Penelo were instrumental in the story so far.

Wait till you complete the game, you will find out they weren't actually important at all. I would explain in more detail but I don't want to spoil anything, regardless of how much I hate FF12.

For the record I think FF13 series > FF12 > FF15 IMO
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Dustin1280 posted...

Wait till you complete the game, you will find out they weren't actually important at all.

their interactions with other members of the party dramatically affect the story
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prince_leo posted...

Dustin1280 posted...

Wait till you complete the game, you will find out they weren't actually important at all.

their interactions with other members of the party dramatically affect the story

Those events could've been presented any number of different ways. There's a big difference between a mechanism to drive the story and an integral plot character with conflict and growth. Vaan serves as the former not the latter.

The point is penelope and Vaan are largely insignificant with no character growth or conflict.
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More so than any other party member, it's Vaan who has the greatest effect on Ashe's final decision because they share a connected sense of loss. His character development helps Ashe realize her choices have real world impacts on the people of Dalmasca, and that good governance comes first. Spending time with Penelo does the same thing to Larsa, who previously had absolute faith in Vayne, but slowly learns how ruthless he can be in the pursuit of his goals and that he needs moderation.

So in a way, they're kind of the chorus from Classical theater.

Dustin1280 posted...

The point is penelope and Vaan are largely insignificant with no character growth or conflict.

Penelo does not grow. Vaan absolutely does.
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Balthier and/or Fran should have been the main characters. Vaan and Penelo should have been replaced with characters that meant something or just removed entirely.
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Irony posted...

Easily the worst FF

played both versions and quit both by the time you get reddasin your party. what a borefest the game was.
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Combat was a neat change, but that's it. I beat it, but it was really boring. Long, uneventful areas, minimal plot, and barely any sidequests outside of Hunts.

It really did feel like a single-player MMO.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Sphyx posted...

The original was so dull and irritating i couldn't finish it. The first time i've voluntarily given up on a FF. The game case made a useful doorstop though, so at least some good came of it. Pity it was so expensive.

Just how different is ZA? It would have to be drastically changed for me to want to try it.

Well how far did you get before you stopped playing? No spoilers plz, just lemme know how many hours you put in before you gave up.

FFXII had a great start. It's fun and has that sense of wonder that was lacking in other FF games. But after 60 hours, the story kinda stopped and you just wander around grinding. And that's when things get really boring... it became less entertaining than some MMOs.
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probably the first thing i can remember agreeing with tc about...since tc existed
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Eh....

I like FFXII but the story really does kind of fall off as you get further in and the combat stops feeling as cool. The ability to make it move faster in Zodiac Age is a godsend but it was hard for me to stay interested in the game as I got deeper into it.

top 3 of the series without question.

although, you have to posess class to properly appreciate FFXII
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First one I didn't finish because I didn't enjoy the combat system. Felt like some weird hybrid of action and turn-based that didn't meld well at all. Played Rogue Galaxy around the same time and that is what I was expecting. With free character movement, I want to attack when I hit attack, not put it in a queue to happen later. And the story didn't grab me at all. Something political theme I think? Gameplay was a deal breaker for me in FF13 as well. There are ways to do turn-based fun (Shadow Hearts or Nocturne for example), but this wasn't one of them.
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FLUFFYGERM posted...

Kineth posted...

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Kineth posted...

Irony posted...

Easily the worst FF

lmfao get the fuck outta here

I intend to. I don't want to be in a topic celebrating dookie.

Why do you think it was the worst FF? What did you think was the best FF so far?

tbh, it has competition with FF2j for being the worst. I didn't like 12 due to the story pacing and the weird combat system. AND I didn't like it due to the lack of a straight up job board or individualized boards for the characters. I know they added that to the International version, but I'm not really looking to spend money on a game with gameplay that I don't like.

As for the best? If we're not including Tactics, generally, I rate either 10 or 5 as the highest. I'm a whore for the job system. 8, 4 and 1 generally round out the rest of my top 5.
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One of the most misunderstood games ever made.
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Dustin1280 posted...

Balthier and/or Fran should have been the main characters. Vaan and Penelo should have been replaced with characters that meant something or just removed entirely.

fran is about as relevant as vaan and penelo
only she doesnt have a good design to make up for it like penelo does

the only real good characters in 12 were balthier, basch and ashe
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I liked vanilla 12 well enough

But I'd be lying if I said I remember the plot

I liked it because of how MMO it felt (which is also why I love Xenoblade) and because I could min max my party's AI (which is something I haven't seen in an RPG before or since)
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I gave the original ps2 version a shot, which I lost interest in since it felt like the main cast had little to do with the over all plot. Then I hear the Zodiac edition was better but that was never officially released in the US.

I did get the steam version though so I may give it a second chance.
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Alkaloid posted...

I liked vanilla 12 well enough

But I'd be lying if I said I remember the plot

Luke gets recruited by Leia to help the rebellion stop the empire. Along the way they are joined by a sassy pirate and his humanoid animal companion, and together they fight against superweapons and a guy in armor.
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Dustin1280 posted...

I have not played the remake, MAYBE it fixed some of the things I hated

nope
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s0nicfan posted...

Alkaloid posted...

I liked vanilla 12 well enough

But I'd be lying if I said I remember the plot

Luke gets recruited by Leia to help the rebellion stop the empire. Along the way they are joined by a sassy pirate Han and his humanoid animal companion Chewy, and together they fight against superweapons and a guy in armor named Judge Vader.

Someone should just mod FF XII to replace the cast with star wars character models and lines from the movies.
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I also wonder why the hell a game set in Ivalice doesn't have a Bangaa or Nu Mou party member

That was so disappointing for me
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No talk of Ashe's butt?
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XII is the best offline FF, although X is almost as good.
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fenderbender321 posted...

Alkaloid posted...

I also wonder why the hell a game set in Ivalice doesn't have a Bangaa or Nu Mou party member

That was so disappointing for me

I don't remember any races like that in FFT...

They were in FFTA, which released in 2003 iirc

I played the fuck out of that game
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I've loved the game since the beginning. I'd rank it somewhere in the middle of the main series, but only because the games above it are so good (VI-X for me). I haven't played the remaster, which I'm sure will make love it even more.

It has its flaws, sure, like the pacing (thanks to the at times overlong dungeons, especially in the last third), the obnoxious loot system, the balance (with physical attacks almost always preferable to offensive magic and Espers), etc. I think #2 and #3 are improved in the remaster.

At the same time, I feel it does a lot right, like the world and lore, the sense of adventure and exploration, the extensive optional content, the voice direction (e.g. regional accents), etc.

The story and characters are not for everyone - even I wasn't sure at first - but they've grown on me more and more with every playthrough.

Vagrant Story 2
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I think the game would've been stellar if it was released a gen later--imagine how big/more intricate the world might've been. Not to say it wasn't amazing as a PS2 game. It was addictive like an MMORPG for me. I practically mined the game for content and lore.
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It was just so different due to the gameplay. I love it though, play the Remaster

s0nicfan posted...

Luke gets recruited by Leia to help the rebellion stop the empire. Along the way they are joined by a sassy pirate Han and his humanoid animal companion Chewy, and together they fight against superweapons and a guy in armor named Judge Vader.

Don't forget a council of deities with questionable intentions subtly directing humanity's actions to suit their own agendas.
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