Current Events > Paper Mario Sticker Star and Color Splash were horrible games.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why did Nintendo think stripping the soul and fun out of Paper Mario be a good idea?

Godlessness.
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It is truly baffling to me why they decided to ruin the one series that was damn near universally loved.
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MC_BatCommander posted...

It is truly baffling to me why they decided to ruin the one series that was damn near universally loved.

Yeah who knows? It makes no sense.

The series was ruined with super paper Mario
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Color splash was decent but yeah Paper Mario has been screwed over.
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Smh

MC_BatCommander posted...

It is truly baffling to me why they decided to ruin the one series that was damn near universally loved.

I get that Sticker Star was a bold idea that totally misfired. What I don't get is why they tried to do it again.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

The series was ruined with super paper Mario

Eh, I wouldn't say ruined. At least SPM was enjoyable. Plus, it would have been easy to come back from SPM. After Sticker Star, there was no going back.
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I like the music in color splash but I doubt I'd play it. Looks very repetitive. In general, I am not at all a fan of card based RPGs
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Tyranthraxus posted...

The series was ruined with super paper Mario

Nah SPM still had the essence and soul of a Paper Mario game. It wasn't as good as TTYD, but it was still a good game.

@TC
I think what happened with Sticker Star and Color Splash was the higher ups really misread why people like Paper Mario as a series.
Instead of the unique takes on the world, interesting characters, and great storytelling, I feel like they somehow thought it was the paper art style gimmick that everyone loved the series for.
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I could only get to the Big Boo boss of Sticker Star before I had to put it down. I haven't touched the game since. It's horrible.

And it's rare for me to dislike a game.
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ForestLogic posted...

I think what happened with Sticker Star and Color Splash was the higher ups really misread why people like Paper Mario as a series.
Instead of the unique takes on the world, interesting characters, and great storytelling, I feel like they somehow thought it was the paper art style gimmick that everyone loved the series for.

Sticker Star started development as a true TTYD sequel. Then Miyamoto came in and said "No." and they made it into the abomination we got.
Then they started Color Splash pretty much as soon as they finished SS, where they just assumed the new style would be a huge hit just because "It's Mario!" or whatever.
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BLAKUboy posted...

ForestLogic posted...

I think what happened with Sticker Star and Color Splash was the higher ups really misread why people like Paper Mario as a series.
Instead of the unique takes on the world, interesting characters, and great storytelling, I feel like they somehow thought it was the paper art style gimmick that everyone loved the series for.

Sticker Star started development as a true TTYD sequel. Then Miyamoto came in and said "No." and they made it into the abomination we got.
Then they started Color Splash pretty much as soon as they finished SS, where they just assumed the new style would be a huge hit just because "It's Mario!" or whatever.

Miyamoto also asked the developers to change the gameplay and battles because he considered it to be too similar to The Thousand Year Door and asked the developers to greatly de-emphasise the game's story, saying "It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?"[17] The world map and level system seen in Sticker Star was implemented so that players could easily stop and resume play at any time.[18]

Apparently, Miyamoto was sidelined for BotW and Mario Odyssey, and it shows. I think he's too obsessed with gimmicky new concepts than actually making something fun.
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Any Paper Mario game not called "Paper Mario" or "Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door" is garbage.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

BLAKUboy posted...

ForestLogic posted...

I think what happened with Sticker Star and Color Splash was the higher ups really misread why people like Paper Mario as a series.
Instead of the unique takes on the world, interesting characters, and great storytelling, I feel like they somehow thought it was the paper art style gimmick that everyone loved the series for.

Sticker Star started development as a true TTYD sequel. Then Miyamoto came in and said "No." and they made it into the abomination we got.
Then they started Color Splash pretty much as soon as they finished SS, where they just assumed the new style would be a huge hit just because "It's Mario!" or whatever.

Miyamoto also asked the developers to change the gameplay and battles because he considered it to be too similar to The Thousand Year Door and asked the developers to greatly de-emphasise the game's story, saying "It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?"[17] The world map and level system seen in Sticker Star was implemented so that players could easily stop and resume play at any time.[18]

Apparently, Miyamoto was sidelined for BotW and Mario Odyssey, and it shows. I think he's too obsessed with gimmicky new concepts than actually making something fun.

Miyamoto needs to stay out of that shit. He's done some good stuff for Nintendo, but this is is ridiculous.

The worst thing about Sticker Star is we actually have footage from a build before Miyamoto took a dump all over the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CRv4XmbrmQ" data-time="

Not much, but there were fucking partners. Fuck Miyamoto.
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It seems like they thought only one Mario RPG shall exist. And that was Mario and Luigi.
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People complain about Nintendo not doing anything new just rehashes and yet theyre the only ones always changing gameplay of a beloved series. Damned if they do nothing different, damned if they do something different.

That being said, damn them for trying to do something different. We need a return to the gameplay of the first two and keep it that way forever. I ****ing hated Super Paper Mario RPG.
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It still hurts.
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iPhone_7 posted...

People complain about Nintendo not doing anything new just rehashes and yet theyre the only ones always changing gameplay of a beloved series. Damned if they do nothing different, damned if they do something different.

That being said, damn them for trying to do something different. We need a return to the gameplay of the first two and keep it that way forever. I ****ing hated Super Paper Mario RPG.

I'm all for doing something different, but PM Sticker Star was fundamentally broken with major design flaws.

Getting 90% through a stage only to find out you don't have some arbitrary page-sized sticker and having to leave, go get it, and do the stage again was absolutely absurd. Since stickers are one time use, you just wasted a bunch of stickers in the process.
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iPhone_7 posted...

People complain about Nintendo not doing anything new just rehashes and yet theyre the only ones always changing gameplay of a beloved series. Damned if they do nothing different, damned if they do something different.

That being said, damn them for trying to do something different. We need a return to the gameplay of the first two and keep it that way forever. I ****ing hated Super Paper Mario RPG.

Changes to gameplay are fine (even though in this case it was poor too anyways) but why cut an interesting cast of characters? Cut Bowsers dialog/personality completely? Things of that nature? Like people said, the soul was ripped out. We could have easily had the same Sticker Star but with interesting characters and such.
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iPhone_7 posted...

People complain about Nintendo not doing anything new just rehashes and yet theyre the only ones always changing gameplay of a beloved series. Damned if they do nothing different, damned if they do something different.

That being said, damn them for trying to do something different. We need a return to the gameplay of the first two and keep it that way forever. I ****ing hated Super Paper Mario RPG.

While I agree on the "damned if you do damned if you don't" thing, people would have been a lot less harsh on the game if it wasn't so shitty. The design choices they made were atrocious.
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Color Splash is better than ttyd lmao

Coffeebeanz posted...

I'm all for doing something different, but PM Sticker Star was fundamentally broken with major design flaws.

Getting 90% through a stage only to find out you don't have some arbitrary page-sized sticker and having to leave, go get it, and do the stage again was absolutely absurd. Since stickers are one time use, you just wasted a bunch of stickers in the process.

I also felt the game didn't give you enough direction on how some stickers/cards worked.

MonsterZed posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

I'm all for doing something different, but PM Sticker Star was fundamentally broken with major design flaws.

Getting 90% through a stage only to find out you don't have some arbitrary page-sized sticker and having to leave, go get it, and do the stage again was absolutely absurd. Since stickers are one time use, you just wasted a bunch of stickers in the process.

I also felt the game didn't give you enough direction on how some stickers/cards worked.

It also gives you a ton of giant stickers that you can't use which fills up your album and gives you less space for attacks. It's a terrible system. You just have to hope the giant ass windmill sticker will be needed in the stage you're going to, or you've just ruined any chance of collecting good stickers
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iPhone_7 posted...

People complain about Nintendo not doing anything new just rehashes and yet theyre the only ones always changing gameplay of a beloved series. Damned if they do nothing different, damned if they do something different.

That being said, damn them for trying to do something different. We need a return to the gameplay of the first two and keep it that way forever. I ****ing hated Super Paper Mario RPG.

Different people are complaining though and I never understood why anyone wants a new game in a series to be vastly different than the others. What is the point? The reason I buy a game in the same series is to have more of the same.

I mean who literally says this: Hey look! It is the 5th game in a series I like, I HOPE it is NOTHING at all like the previous four games!
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LightHawKnight posted...

iPhone_7 posted...

People complain about Nintendo not doing anything new just rehashes and yet theyre the only ones always changing gameplay of a beloved series. Damned if they do nothing different, damned if they do something different.

That being said, damn them for trying to do something different. We need a return to the gameplay of the first two and keep it that way forever. I ****ing hated Super Paper Mario RPG.

Different people are complaining though and I never understood why anyone wants a new game in a series to be vastly different than the others. What is the point? The reason I buy a game in the same series is to have more of the same.

I mean who literally says this: Hey look! It is the 5th game in a series I like, I HOPE it is NOTHING at all like the previous four games!

This. You want sequels that have the same core, and build on what the previous games accomplished, all the while fixing flaws and mistakes.

LightHawKnight posted...

iPhone_7 posted...

People complain about Nintendo not doing anything new just rehashes and yet theyre the only ones always changing gameplay of a beloved series. Damned if they do nothing different, damned if they do something different.

That being said, damn them for trying to do something different. We need a return to the gameplay of the first two and keep it that way forever. I ****ing hated Super Paper Mario RPG.

Different people are complaining though and I never understood why anyone wants a new game in a series to be vastly different than the others. What is the point? The reason I buy a game in the same series is to have more of the same.

I mean who literally says this: Hey look! It is the 5th game in a series I like, I HOPE it is NOTHING at all like the previous four games!

Truer words were never spoken.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Apparently, Miyamoto was sidelined for BotW and Mario Odyssey, and it shows. I think he's too obsessed with gimmicky new concepts than actually making something fun.

Yeah, midway through both games' development was when Miyamoto was elevated to Creative Fellow following Iwata's death, and ever since then they've been mentioning how younger designers are stepping up into power. I think it's for the best to have Miyamoto in a broader managerial position at this one in his career since his insight/experience is still valuable cant get his hands into everything anymore.

I think when he's able to come up with a new idea and create a game from the ground up on its own, it will usually turn out fantastic. But for a few years there he ended up in this weird spot where he just sorta drifted around various studios going "oooooh what if you add this random gimmick I thought of on the train ride here." and the team would just need to awkwardly go "oh, y-yeah great idea." and start working on something they didn't really want to.
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It wasn't just Miyamoto. They took feedback on a Nintendo Club Survey.

Yeah. With regard to the story, we did a survey over the Super Paper Mario game in Club Nintendo, and not even 1% said the story was interesting. A lot of people said that the Flip26 move for switching between the 3D and 2D dimensions was fun.

And the lead director already had the same thoughts as Miyamoto.

Kudo: I originally saw it in a way that's similar to Miyamoto-san. Personally I think all we need is to have an objective to win the boss battle at the end of the game. I didn't think we necessarily needed a lengthy story like in an RPG. Instead, we looked at the characteristics of a portable game that can be played little by little in small pieces and packed in lots of little episodes and ideas. I always did like putting in little ideas, so I actually enjoyed it.

Iwata: It was just what Kudo-san wanted.

Games are a collaborative effort. It's not as simple as just saying "Miyamoto ruined this game"

People latch onto this story specifically because they don't know the other people involved.
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Super mario RPG is an awful game. Its not like the series started off good. Out of all the mario RPG games only one was good.
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Crepes posted...

Super mario RPG is an awful game. Its not like the series started off good. Out of all the mario RPG games only one was good.

I do not agree with this opinion.

yo i fuckin hated sticker star

you literally dont have to fight any enemies in the game (aside from bosses) since it's not worth it.
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Color splash was a big improvement on sticker star, but it still didnt respect the players time

Way too much blatantly obvious padding although it did have some really fun and interesting levels

I feel like most people just didnt give it a chance after sticker star tbh
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I still have some hope for Paper Mario though. I mean the first two were beloved games. Nintendo is eventually going to have employees that had fond memories of those games. Maybe they're even there now. Perhaps they'll set out to make the Paper Mario sequel we all want.
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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

I still have some hope for Paper Mario though. I mean the first two were beloved games. Nintendo is eventually going to have employees that had fond memories of those games. Maybe they're even there now. Perhaps they'll set out to make the Paper Mario sequel we all want.

Or when they *hopefully* release TTYD on Switch virtual console, they'll see what the fans want when we literally all buy it.
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The level in color splash where there were two stars at the end (and the level kicks you out once you get a star) so you had to redo the level with no differences was a fucking travesty though

Whoever thought up that one should be fired
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BLAKUboy posted...

Sticker Star started development as a true TTYD sequel. Then Miyamoto came in and said "No." and they made it into the abomination we got.

He is a has been doofus who needs to retire. Sick of old fuckers ruining shit because they don't want to retire.
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Miyamoto is senile. iirc he was also responsible for making Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon as linear as it was along with preventing them from making more unique bosses.
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GiftedACIII posted...

Miyamoto is senile. iirc he was also responsible for making Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon as linear as it was along with preventing them from making more unique bosses.

Dark Moon was good though.
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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Dark Moon was good though.

A straight downgrade from the original in almost every way though.
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BLAKUboy posted...

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Dark Moon was good though.

A straight downgrade from the original in almost every way though.

Perhaps. I never got very far in Luigi's Mansion. I was bad at finishing games when I was a kid, and I got the game at the same time I got SSBM as well.
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GeneralKenobi85 posted...

GiftedACIII posted...

Miyamoto is senile. iirc he was also responsible for making Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon as linear as it was along with preventing them from making more unique bosses.

Dark Moon was good though.

It was ok but nowhere near as much of an experience and memorable as the original. People are still talking about the original while DM isn't really talked about anymore.
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Color Splash less so. I at least had no issues with enjoying the game and at least the writing was good. Sticker Star I almost dropped while playing the first chapter, then decided to just play battles instead of avoiding them and finally had some fun. Had to look up how to beat the bosses though, because fuck that noise. And the writing wasn't very good. Just "lol we're paper" almost every single time a joke is made. Color Splash made those too but there was far more variety in the humor.
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I still have an unopened copy of Color Splash that I got for Christmas like two years ago.

Still pissed at Miyamoto for that comment about Sticker Star. The entire series got ruined because of him.

BLAKUboy posted...

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

Dark Moon was good though.

A straight downgrade from the original in almost every way though.

I dunno about that. I think it was better in many ways. The real divisive part is the mission based structure. And that's not necessarily worse, just a YMMV thing.
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gafemaqs posted...

Color Splash is better than ttyd lmao

Preach fam

/s
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Tyranthraxus posted...

The series was ruined with super paper Mario

SPM still had the spirit of Paper Mario.

That was torn away with Sticker Star.
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LightHawKnight posted...

It seems like they thought only one Mario RPG shall exist. And that was Mario and Luigi.

This is actually true.

The director of the newer PM games outright said that if fans wanted a Mario RPG, they have the Mario & Luigi series.
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