o bullied for being transgender commits suicide. Obituary goes viral.

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nicklebro 04/08/18 9:46:36 AM #52:	YOUHAVENOHOPE posted... nicklebro posted... Here's the facts. Bullying increases the likely hood of committing suicide. So does being trans. Why is it ok to acknowledge one and not the other? because you're being incredibly callous and saying "oh it's to be expected just look at the factors" instead of feeling "oh that's sad we shouldn't bully people" it's a nerd logic thing that drives normal people up the wall don't feel too bad other people don't understand Pretty sure you're the ones ignoring just how hard it is to be a trans person. By your logic, if a trans person isn't being bullied then they should have no reason to commit suicide. See I want to help trans people and stop bullying, you want to ignore trans people's challenges and just stop bullying. That's wrong. COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... No one did that. Did you read the post Admiral made that you are defending? He's clearly trying to set the case for the condition itself being the cause of the increased suicide risk. The Admiral posted... I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, There, that's him saying bullying contributed. Are you suggesting that being trans had nothing to do with this suicide at all? Cuz the science disagrees with you. shockthemonkey posted... Why cant we blame why they were bullied? is not a good look and never will be. You seem to be missing the point that even with 0 bullying Trans people are still at a higher risk for suicide than non trans people. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899266681] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>Here's the facts. Bullying increases the likely hood of committing suicide. So does being trans. Why is it ok to acknowledge one and not the other? </quote> because you're being incredibly callous and saying "oh it's to be expected just look at the factors" instead of feeling "oh that's sad we shouldn't bully people" it's a nerd logic thing that drives normal people up the wall don't feel too bad other people don't understand</quote> Pretty sure you're the ones ignoring just how hard it is to be a trans person. By your logic, if a trans person isn't being bullied then they should have no reason to commit suicide. See I want to help trans people and stop bullying, you want to ignore trans people's challenges and just stop bullying. That's wrong. <cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>No one did that.</quote> Did you read the post Admiral made that you are defending? He's clearly trying to set the case for the condition itself being the cause of the increased suicide risk. </quote> <cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, </quote> There, that's him saying bullying contributed. Are you suggesting that being trans had nothing to do with this suicide at all? Cuz the science disagrees with you. <cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote> Why cant we blame why they were bullied? is not a good look and never will be.</quote> You seem to be missing the point that even with 0 bullying Trans people are still at a higher risk for suicide than non trans people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Siaperaz 04/08/18 9:47:35 AM #53:	shockthemonkey posted... The Admiral posted... shockthemonkey posted... The Admiral posted... scar the 1 posted... nicklebro posted... It's a fact that trans people commit suicide at a substantially higher rate than non trans people tho... I mean it's literally established science. Why do you think trans people commit suicide a lot more than non trans (cis) people? If you knew the established science you're citing, you'd have a basic idea. Part of the reason is obviously lack of societal acceptance, but the majority of the reason is the condition itself. As was mentioned, even transgenders in loving and accepting environments who have undergone SRS and hormone therapy still commit suicide at rates that are on par with people who have severe mental illnesses. The SRS/acceptance does lower suicide rates, but nowhere close to the general population. Bottom line is that transgenders are already at a much higher risk of depression and suicide, and when they're exposed to bullying -- like this kid was -- there is a greater than usual chance of the child taking his or her life. I think that's something teachers and parents of trans kids need to be aware of. This is false and you should stop spouting off nonsense from one disproven study. It's not, and you should educate yourself properly if you think otherwise. Prove it then https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/ --- GO KNICKS!!! <cite>Siaperaz posted [p:899266709] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote><cite>scar the 1 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>It's a fact that trans people commit suicide at a substantially higher rate than non trans people tho... I mean it's literally established science. </quote> Why do you think trans people commit suicide a lot more than non trans (cis) people? If you knew the established science you're citing, you'd have a basic idea.</quote> Part of the reason is obviously lack of societal acceptance, but the majority of the reason is the condition itself. As was mentioned, even transgenders in loving and accepting environments who have undergone SRS and hormone therapy still commit suicide at rates that are on par with people who have severe mental illnesses. The SRS/acceptance does lower suicide rates, but nowhere close to the general population. Bottom line is that transgenders are already at a much higher risk of depression and suicide, and when they're exposed to bullying -- like this kid was -- there is a greater than usual chance of the child taking his or her life. I think that's something teachers and parents of trans kids need to be aware of.</quote> This is false and you should stop spouting off nonsense from one disproven study.</quote> It's not, and you should educate yourself properly if you think otherwise.</quote> Prove it then</quote> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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COVxy 04/08/18 9:50:37 AM #55:	nicklebro posted... There, that's him saying bullying contributed. Are you suggesting that being trans had nothing to do with this suicide at all? Cuz the science disagrees with you. No, I'm saying people haven't actually done a proper analysis to say how much of the increased suicide rate in trans people are due to other covarying factors, such as bullying. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899266805] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>There, that's him saying bullying contributed. Are you suggesting that being trans had nothing to do with this suicide at all? Cuz the science disagrees with you.</quote> No, I'm saying people haven't actually done a proper analysis to say how much of the increased suicide rate in trans people are due to other covarying factors, such as bullying.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Marmalade 04/08/18 9:50:39 AM #56:	The Admiral posted... Part of the reason is obviously lack of societal acceptance, but the majority of the reason is the condition itself. As was mentioned, even transgenders in loving and accepting environments who have undergone SRS and hormone therapy still commit suicide at rates that are on par with people who have severe mental illnesses. The SRS/acceptance does lower suicide rates, but nowhere close to the general population. I would say that societal acceptance plays a larger role in trangender depression than gender dysphoria does, though obviously some cases are more severe than others. If the societal pressure to conform to gender norms weren't there, transitioning would be a significantly less stressful process. I haven't fully transitioned myself, but from my understanding, even after transitioning a lot of people might still have some ongoing issues with dysphoria, but they've significantly alleviated by HRT/SRS. What you're not factoring in here is that even if they themselves are not the targets of transphobic discrimination, they're still going to see it in their day to day lives. It's not exactly a safe, welcoming feeling. --- Jam is acceptable. <cite>Marmalade posted [p:899266806] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote> Part of the reason is obviously lack of societal acceptance, but the majority of the reason is the condition itself. As was mentioned, even transgenders in loving and accepting environments who have undergone SRS and hormone therapy still commit suicide at rates that are on par with people who have severe mental illnesses. The SRS/acceptance does lower suicide rates, but nowhere close to the general population.</quote> I would say that societal acceptance plays a larger role in trangender depression than gender dysphoria does, though obviously some cases are more severe than others. If the societal pressure to conform to gender norms weren't there, transitioning would be a significantly less stressful process. I haven't fully transitioned myself, but from my understanding, even after transitioning a lot of people might still have some ongoing issues with dysphoria, but they've significantly alleviated by HRT/SRS. What you're not factoring in here is that even if they themselves are not the targets of transphobic discrimination, they're still going to see it in their day to day lives. It's not exactly a safe, welcoming feeling.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 04/08/18 9:51:21 AM #57:	nicklebro posted... You seem to be missing the point that even with 0 bullying Trans people are still at a higher risk for suicide than non trans people. You are pulling this conclusion from your ass, much like The Admiral. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899266824] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>You seem to be missing the point that even with 0 bullying Trans people are still at a higher risk for suicide than non trans people.</quote> You are pulling this conclusion from your ass, much like The Admiral.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 9:51:48 AM #58:	YOUHAVENOHOPE posted... No I'm comparing the logic People like you see "Black people commit crimes at normal than higher rates" and you immediately accept that being black MUST be part of the reason. You don't even think to ask, "Why? exclusive of their skin color. SImilarly, you see "Trans person commits suicide because of bulllying" and you immediately accept that the trans part of them must = bullying. Nobody here is saying that trans people are not going through a tough time. Lol so you're doing exact what I said you're doing, literally acting as if the logic between these two things is similar at all. Fact is I don't believe black people are to blame for their higher arrest rates, but I do believe that being trans makes you more susceptible to suicide. So your argument just completely feel apart. You don't seem to grasp that there's more reason to commit suicide than just being bullied. Your also completely ignorant of the science on the subject. You should probably do a bit more research rather than trying to paint me as a racist because I happen to think that being trans is hard enough to lead to increased suicide rates lmao. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899266838] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...</cite> <quote> No I'm comparing the logic People like you see "Black people commit crimes at normal than higher rates" and you immediately accept that being black MUST be part of the reason. You don't even think to ask, "Why? exclusive of their skin color. SImilarly, you see "Trans person commits suicide because of bulllying" and you immediately accept that the trans part of them must = bullying. Nobody here is saying that trans people are not going through a tough time.</quote> Lol so you're doing exact what I said you're doing, literally acting as if the logic between these two things is similar at all. Fact is I don't believe black people are to blame for their higher arrest rates, but I do believe that being trans makes you more susceptible to suicide. So your argument just completely feel apart. You don't seem to grasp that there's more reason to commit suicide than just being bullied. Your also completely ignorant of the science on the subject. You should probably do a bit more research rather than trying to paint me as a racist because I happen to think that being trans is hard enough to lead to increased suicide rates lmao.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Admiral 04/08/18 9:52:26 AM #59:	shockthemonkey posted... Why cant we blame why they were bullied? is not a good look and never will be. No one is blaming the transgender kid here... It's not the kid's fault that she was born trans, and it's most certainly not her fault she was bullied. However, the combination of those two makes it significantly more likely that something like this will happen, and I think that's important for people in positions of authority to be aware of. --- - The Admiral <cite>The Admiral posted [p:899266852] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>Why cant we blame why they were bullied? is not a good look and never will be.</quote> No one is blaming the transgender kid here... It's not the kid's fault that she was born trans, and it's most certainly not her fault she was bullied. However, the combination of those two makes it significantly more likely that something like this will happen, and I think that's important for people in positions of authority to be aware of.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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bevan306 04/08/18 9:54:31 AM #61:	whites commit suicide at a higher rate than others right. Maybe whiteness was the main factor here, not the bullying but seriously poor kid --- http://rateyourmusic.com/~bevan http://i.imgur.com/5Ta28.jpg <cite>bevan306 posted [p:899266922] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>whites commit suicide at a higher rate than others right. Maybe whiteness was the main factor here, not the bullying but seriously poor kid</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
clearaflagrantj 04/08/18 9:55:01 AM #62:	nicklebro posted... Stop pointing out facts because they make you feel bad? You're telling everyone to ignore the fact that trans people are at a higher risk for suicide than other people.. do you think that's helping the situation? "Stop pointing out facts because they make you feel bad? You're telling everyone to ignore the fact that black people are at a higher risk for committing crime than other people.. do you think that's helping the situation?" Woo boy it sounds awful when you use that argument for race. <cite>clearaflagrantj posted [p:899266933] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>Stop pointing out facts because they make you feel bad? You're telling everyone to ignore the fact that trans people are at a higher risk for suicide than other people.. do you think that's helping the situation? </quote> "Stop pointing out facts because they make you feel bad? You're telling everyone to ignore the fact that black people are at a higher risk for committing crime than other people.. do you think that's helping the situation?" Woo boy it sounds awful when you use that argument for race.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 9:56:08 AM #63:	shockthemonkey posted... Youre not in a good spot to complain about missing the point right now Again, I'm going to continue to post facts even if they hurt your feelings. COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... There, that's him saying bullying contributed. Are you suggesting that being trans had nothing to do with this suicide at all? Cuz the science disagrees with you. No, I'm saying people haven't actually done a proper analysis to say how much of the increased suicide rate in trans people are due to other covarying factors, such as bullying. How much? Lol do you think that's how this works? Like we get a % of how much bullying is to blame and how much other factors are to blame? No dude... But at least it does some you are now admitting that being trans does lead to some amount of increased likely hood of suicide. Or are you arguing that sans bullying, being trans doesn't contribute to that at all? Marmalade posted... I haven't fully transitioned myself, but from my understanding, even after transitioning a lot of people might still have some ongoing issues with dysphoria, but they've significantly alleviated by HRT/SRS. What you're not factoring in here is that even if they themselves are not the targets of transphobic discrimination, they're still going to see it in their day to day lives. It's not exactly a safe, welcoming feeling. Can't really call societal acceptance and bullying the same thing tho right? --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899266967] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote> Youre not in a good spot to complain about missing the point right now</quote> Again, I'm going to continue to post facts even if they hurt your feelings. <cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>There, that's him saying bullying contributed. Are you suggesting that being trans had nothing to do with this suicide at all? Cuz the science disagrees with you.</quote> No, I'm saying people haven't actually done a proper analysis to say how much of the increased suicide rate in trans people are due to other covarying factors, such as bullying.</quote> How much? Lol do you think that's how this works? Like we get a % of how much bullying is to blame and how much other factors are to blame? No dude... But at least it does some you are now admitting that being trans does lead to some amount of increased likely hood of suicide. Or are you arguing that sans bullying, being trans doesn't contribute to that at all? <cite>Marmalade posted...</cite> <quote> I haven't fully transitioned myself, but from my understanding, even after transitioning a lot of people might still have some ongoing issues with dysphoria, but they've significantly alleviated by HRT/SRS. What you're not factoring in here is that even if they themselves are not the targets of transphobic discrimination, they're still going to see it in their day to day lives. It's not exactly a safe, welcoming feeling.</quote> Can't really call societal acceptance and bullying the same thing tho right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 9:57:44 AM #64:	clearaflagrantj posted... nicklebro posted... Stop pointing out facts because they make you feel bad? You're telling everyone to ignore the fact that trans people are at a higher risk for suicide than other people.. do you think that's helping the situation? "Stop pointing out facts because they make you feel bad? You're telling everyone to ignore the fact that black people are at a higher risk for committing crime than other people.. do you think that's helping the situation?" Woo boy it sounds awful when you use that argument for race. Yeah good thing no one's doing that. Funny how you cant make a point while staying on topic. Almost seems as though you have no real argument at all when you do that... --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899267017] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>clearaflagrantj posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>Stop pointing out facts because they make you feel bad? You're telling everyone to ignore the fact that trans people are at a higher risk for suicide than other people.. do you think that's helping the situation? </quote> "Stop pointing out facts because they make you feel bad? You're telling everyone to ignore the fact that black people are at a higher risk for committing crime than other people.. do you think that's helping the situation?" Woo boy it sounds awful when you use that argument for race.</quote> Yeah good thing no one's doing that. Funny how you cant make a point while staying on topic. Almost seems as though you have no real argument at all when you do that...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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COVxy 04/08/18 9:59:37 AM #66:	nicklebro posted... How much? Lol do you think that's how this works? Like we get a % of how much bullying is to blame and how much other factors are to blame? No dude... Yeah, pretty much. Have you ever taken a basic course in statistics before? nicklebro posted... Or are you arguing that sans bullying, being trans doesn't contribute to that at all? I'm saying we don't know whether or not this is the case. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899267075] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>How much? Lol do you think that's how this works? Like we get a % of how much bullying is to blame and how much other factors are to blame? No dude...</quote> Yeah, pretty much. Have you ever taken a basic course in statistics before? <cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>Or are you arguing that sans bullying, being trans doesn't contribute to that at all?</quote> I'm saying we don't know whether or not this is the case.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
myzz7 04/08/18 10:01:12 AM #67:	certain cultures influences general trends of groups of people - that is what people confuse with racism. transgender is not the same as the above statement. its literally a fundamental mental stance of "im not okay with the body i was born in" which is a hard baseline that bends toward unhappiness. nothing exists to fix that. sex surgery isn't a solution. --- http://s10.postimage.org/mxioonsd1/gildavatar.gif http://gifgifs.com/res/0916/57ebaeea6c7a9047727112.gif <cite>myzz7 posted [p:899267121] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>certain cultures influences general trends of groups of people - that is what people confuse with racism. transgender is not the same as the above statement. its literally a fundamental mental stance of "im not okay with the body i was born in" which is a hard baseline that bends toward unhappiness. nothing exists to fix that. sex surgery isn't a solution.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
frozenshock 04/08/18 10:02:11 AM #68:	Not everyone is as resistant to bullying, especially if they're already fragile. Blame the bullies, not the victim. --- I don't hate people, people hate me. <cite>frozenshock posted [p:899267155] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>Not everyone is as resistant to bullying, especially if they're already fragile. Blame the bullies, not the victim.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 10:05:24 AM #69:	COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... How much? Lol do you think that's how this works? Like we get a % of how much bullying is to blame and how much other factors are to blame? No dude... Yeah, pretty much. Have you ever taken a basic course in statistics before? Wow I was being facetious.... You really think that we would have an exact % on how much each factor contributed to someone's suicide? Lol the person themselves couldn't even tell you that... Jesus man And you think a statistics course would even help figure that out? I need you to explain your line of thinking here, or show me some kinda comparison that suggests what you're proposing is even possible. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899267235] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>How much? Lol do you think that's how this works? Like we get a % of how much bullying is to blame and how much other factors are to blame? No dude...</quote> Yeah, pretty much. Have you ever taken a basic course in statistics before?</quote> Wow I was being facetious.... You really think that we would have an exact % on how much each factor contributed to someone's suicide? Lol the person themselves couldn't even tell you that... Jesus man And you think a statistics course would even help figure that out? I need you to explain your line of thinking here, or show me some kinda comparison that suggests what you're proposing is even possible.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thelovefist 04/08/18 10:06:22 AM #70:	The TDF should be ashamed of themselves for using this topic to spout their dogma. --- N/A <cite>thelovefist posted [p:899267269] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>The TDF should be ashamed of themselves for using this topic to spout their dogma.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 04/08/18 10:07:51 AM #71:	nicklebro posted... I need you to explain your line of thinking here, or show me some kinda comparison that suggests what you're proposing is even possible. I'm not gonna be your personal tutor in logistic regression. Why don't you just try not to talk out of your ass about things you haven't even attempted to study? --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899267318] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>I need you to explain your line of thinking here, or show me some kinda comparison that suggests what you're proposing is even possible.</quote> I'm not gonna be your personal tutor in logistic regression. Why don't you just try not to talk out of your ass about things you haven't even attempted to study?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 10:11:16 AM #72:	COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... I need you to explain your line of thinking here, or show me some kinda comparison that suggests what you're proposing is even possible. I'm not gonna be your personal tutor in logistic regression. Why don't you just try not to talk out of your ass about things you haven't even attempted to study? So you can't do it? So you're just going to throw a hissy fit when you get cornered like you always do? You're getting quite the reputation for talking out your ass and never admitting when you're wrong. All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well. Next time make sure you have your facts straight before making such ignorant claims. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899267449] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>I need you to explain your line of thinking here, or show me some kinda comparison that suggests what you're proposing is even possible.</quote> I'm not gonna be your personal tutor in logistic regression. Why don't you just try not to talk out of your ass about things you haven't even attempted to study?</quote> So you can't do it? So you're just going to throw a hissy fit when you get cornered like you always do? You're getting quite the reputation for talking out your ass and never admitting when you're wrong. All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well. Next time make sure you have your facts straight before making such ignorant claims.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EnrichUrCulture 04/08/18 10:11:16 AM #73:	IslamMD posted... It's listening to the 911 operator tell you to go faster and push harder.' Oddly arousing <cite>EnrichUrCulture posted [p:899267451] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>IslamMD posted...</cite> <quote>It's listening to the 911 operator tell you to go faster and push harder.'</quote> Oddly arousing</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 04/08/18 10:12:46 AM #74:	nicklebro posted... COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... I need you to explain your line of thinking here, or show me some kinda comparison that suggests what you're proposing is even possible. I'm not gonna be your personal tutor in logistic regression. Why don't you just try not to talk out of your ass about things you haven't even attempted to study? So you can't do it? So you're just going to throw a hissy fit when you get cornered like you always do? You're getting quite the reputation for talking out your ass and never admitting when you're wrong. All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well. Next time make sure you have your facts straight before making such ignorant claims. Right... --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899267485] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>I need you to explain your line of thinking here, or show me some kinda comparison that suggests what you're proposing is even possible.</quote> I'm not gonna be your personal tutor in logistic regression. Why don't you just try not to talk out of your ass about things you haven't even attempted to study?</quote> So you can't do it? So you're just going to throw a hissy fit when you get cornered like you always do? You're getting quite the reputation for talking out your ass and never admitting when you're wrong. All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well. Next time make sure you have your facts straight before making such ignorant claims.</quote> Right... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
butthole666 04/08/18 10:14:34 AM #75:	The Admiral posted... I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, but it's not nearly as much of a factor as the condition itself. Even transgenders who are not bullied and who undergo SRS and hormone treatments commit suicide at rates that are 10x higher than the generation population. God what is fucking wrong with you dude --- "Kenan & Kel is what made me realize I wasn't racist." ~ NewportBox100s <cite>butthole666 posted [p:899267537] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, but it's not nearly as much of a factor as the condition itself. Even transgenders who are not bullied and who undergo SRS and hormone treatments commit suicide at rates that are 10x higher than the generation population.</quote> God what is fucking wrong with you dude</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 04/08/18 10:15:10 AM #76:	nicklebro posted... All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well. You're saying that it's "scientifically proven" that there's a causal link between being transgender and increased risk of suicide? That sounds like a very strong claim tbh --- Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two. <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:899267551] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote> All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well.</quote> You're saying that it's "scientifically proven" that there's a causal link between being transgender and increased risk of suicide? That sounds like a very strong claim tbh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
thelovefist 04/08/18 10:15:37 AM #77:	butthole666 posted... The Admiral posted... I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, but it's not nearly as much of a factor as the condition itself. Even transgenders who are not bullied and who undergo SRS and hormone treatments commit suicide at rates that are 10x higher than the generation population. God what is fucking wrong with you dude What is wrong with you? Continuing to ignore this reality does not help these people... --- N/A <cite>thelovefist posted [p:899267563] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>butthole666 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, but it's not nearly as much of a factor as the condition itself. Even transgenders who are not bullied and who undergo SRS and hormone treatments commit suicide at rates that are 10x higher than the generation population.</quote> God what is fucking wrong with you dude</quote> What is wrong with you? Continuing to ignore this reality does not help these people...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HypnoCoosh 04/08/18 10:16:25 AM #78:	The Admiral posted... I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, but it's not nearly as much of a factor as the condition itself. Even transgenders who are not bullied and who undergo SRS and hormone treatments commit suicide at rates that are 10x higher than the generation population. Literally could have ended this thread on post 8. --- We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis <cite>HypnoCoosh posted [p:899267593] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, but it's not nearly as much of a factor as the condition itself. Even transgenders who are not bullied and who undergo SRS and hormone treatments commit suicide at rates that are 10x higher than the generation population.</quote> Literally could have ended this thread on post 8.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 04/08/18 10:18:44 AM #79:	scar the 1 posted... nicklebro posted... All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well. You're saying that it's "scientifically proven" that there's a causal link between being transgender and increased risk of suicide? That sounds like a very strong claim tbh Don't worry, when the data is correlational, you cannot possibly do anything the parse out the independent effects of different factors. That would be unpossible, nobel prize winning work. ... Let's not pretend like that user has any background in science or data analysis lol. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899267653] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>scar the 1 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote> All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well.</quote> You're saying that it's "scientifically proven" that there's a causal link between being transgender and increased risk of suicide? That sounds like a very strong claim tbh</quote> Don't worry, when the data is correlational, you cannot possibly do anything the parse out the independent effects of different factors. That would be unpossible, nobel prize winning work. ... Let's not pretend like that user has any background in science or data analysis lol.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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HypnoCoosh 04/08/18 10:23:24 AM #81:	shockthemonkey posted... I like how Admiral just ignores the fact that the study he posted doesnt say what he said it does WTF are you arguing for anyhow? --- We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis <cite>HypnoCoosh posted [p:899267815] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote>I like how Admiral just ignores the fact that the study he posted doesnt say what he said it does</quote> WTF are you arguing for anyhow?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 10:24:08 AM #82:	COVxy posted... scar the 1 posted... nicklebro posted... All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well. You're saying that it's "scientifically proven" that there's a causal link between being transgender and increased risk of suicide? That sounds like a very strong claim tbh Don't worry, when the data is correlational, you cannot possibly do anything the parse out the independent effects of different factors. That would be unpossible, nobel prize winning work. ... Let's not pretend like that user has any background in science or data analysis lol. So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not? --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899267847] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>scar the 1 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote> All I've said is that being trans leads to increased suicide rates which is not only scientifically proven, but common sense as well.</quote> You're saying that it's "scientifically proven" that there's a causal link between being transgender and increased risk of suicide? That sounds like a very strong claim tbh</quote> Don't worry, when the data is correlational, you cannot possibly do anything the parse out the independent effects of different factors. That would be unpossible, nobel prize winning work. ... Let's not pretend like that user has any background in science or data analysis lol.</quote> So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 04/08/18 10:26:05 AM #83:	nicklebro posted... So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not? Yes, along with all the other factors that covary with trans to produce that end increased odds ratio that you are referring to. Who knows how much of that odds ratio is due to trans or those other factors, because people haven't actually done that analysis. In other words, we have no idea what being trans alone does to suicide risk. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899267898] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not?</quote> Yes, along with all the other factors that covary with trans to produce that end increased odds ratio that you are referring to. Who knows how much of that odds ratio is due to trans or those other factors, because people haven't actually done that analysis. In other words, we have no idea what being trans alone does to suicide risk.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HypnoCoosh 04/08/18 10:27:34 AM #84:	COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not? Yes Finally talking some sense. --- We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. - C.S. Lewis <cite>HypnoCoosh posted [p:899267945] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>nicklebro posted... So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not? Yes</quote> Finally talking some sense.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 04/08/18 10:28:21 AM #85:	HypnoCoosh posted... COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not? Yes Finally talking some sense. Read whatever you want into my posts, that yes doesn't mean what you want it to mean, though. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899267967] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote>nicklebro posted... So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not? Yes</quote> Finally talking some sense.</quote> Read whatever you want into my posts, that yes doesn't mean what you want it to mean, though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SK8T3R215 04/08/18 10:29:26 AM #86:	Trans people have a mental illness. Mentally ill people have very high suicide rates. Seems pretty open and shut to me. --- New York Knicks, New York Jets, New York Yankees. <cite>SK8T3R215 posted [p:899267996] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>Trans people have a mental illness. Mentally ill people have very high suicide rates. Seems pretty open and shut to me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gatorsPENSbucs 04/08/18 10:32:20 AM #87:	SK8T3R215 posted... Trans people have a mental illness. Mentally ill people have very high suicide rates. Seems pretty open and shut to me. Yah, but they (not the trans people, the people sticking up for them) need something/someone to put the blame on and its a lot easier to blame bullies than mental illness. --- http://m.imgur.com/BtD5etN?r https://m.imgur.com/a/jclul http://i.imgtc.com/etNW2apANm.jpg <cite>gatorsPENSbucs posted [p:899268093] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>SK8T3R215 posted...</cite> <quote>Trans people have a mental illness. Mentally ill people have very high suicide rates. Seems pretty open and shut to me.</quote> Yah, but they (not the trans people, the people sticking up for them) need something/someone to put the blame on and its a lot easier to blame bullies than mental illness.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 10:32:32 AM #88:	COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not? Yes, along with all the other factors that covary with trans to produce that end increased odds ratio that you are referring to. Who knows how much of that odds ratio is due to trans or those other factors, because people haven't actually done that analysis. In other words, we have no idea what being trans alone does to suicide risk. We will literally never have those statistics, which is why I told you to find a comparable example before you threw your hissy fit because you know none exists. But ok, you admit that being trans puts you are a higher risk for suicide. I accept your apology and now we can move on. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899268099] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>So does being trans put you at a higher risk of suicide or not?</quote> Yes, along with all the other factors that covary with trans to produce that end increased odds ratio that you are referring to. Who knows how much of that odds ratio is due to trans or those other factors, because people haven't actually done that analysis. In other words, we have no idea what being trans alone does to suicide risk.</quote> We will literally never have those statistics, which is why I told you to find a comparable example before you threw your hissy fit because you know none exists. But ok, you admit that being trans puts you are a higher risk for suicide. I accept your apology and now we can move on.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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COVxy 04/08/18 10:34:50 AM #91:	nicklebro posted... We will literally never have those statistics You should take a class in statistics. Really cheap to take a single class at a local community college. It's really an important skill set for everyone to have, to be able to understand and interpret statistics. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899268185] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>We will literally never have those statistics</quote> You should take a class in statistics. Really cheap to take a single class at a local community college. It's really an important skill set for everyone to have, to be able to understand and interpret statistics.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YOUHAVENOHOPE 04/08/18 10:37:14 AM #92:	i will admit after taking a step back and re-reading everything i seem to have misunderstood but it's really a surface-level perception OBVIOUSLY someone with mental disorders/illnesses will have a higher rate of suicide. The PROBLEM seems to stem here that some appear to be suggesting that bullying was not a significant factor in the suicide. If you REALLY think bullying had little to do with their unfortunate suicide, then I seriously worry for you. But at the same time, if you REALLY think trans people are just prone to committing suicide without outside stimuli and think bullying has little-to-no effect on peoples psyche (as well as living in an environment constantly hostile to you), I have to wonder about you --- http://i.imgur.com/kpXTakw.gif http://i.imgur.com/Pto3yPa.jpg http://media.giphy.com/media/NBVBnHv8bV13q/giphy.gif <cite>YOUHAVENOHOPE posted [p:899268268] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>i will admit after taking a step back and re-reading everything i seem to have misunderstood but it's really a surface-level perception OBVIOUSLY someone with mental disorders/illnesses will have a higher rate of suicide. The PROBLEM seems to stem here that some appear to be suggesting that bullying was not a significant factor in the suicide. If you REALLY think bullying had little to do with their unfortunate suicide, then I seriously worry for you. But at the same time, if you REALLY think trans people are just prone to committing suicide without outside stimuli and think bullying has little-to-no effect on peoples psyche (as well as living in an environment constantly hostile to you), I have to wonder about you</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 10:45:57 AM #93:	shockthemonkey posted... this is how children act when they know theyre wrong They post emojis and troll? COVxy posted... nicklebro posted... We will literally never have those statistics You should take a class in statistics. Really cheap to take a single class at a local community college. It's really an important skill set for everyone to have, to be able to understand and interpret statistics. Ok. So do you have anything of substance to add that's relevant to the discussion or are you once again resorting to ad hominem attacks and trolling to avoid admitting you're wrong? Because there's no other way for me to take this post than an immature poster refusing to concede a point. Idk what statistics course you think exists that would ever give us the insight into the human mind to tell us the exact statistics for what causes our behavior. I mean I keep laughing at you for thinking a statistics course would even help in this situation but you don't seem to have realized how silly that logic is. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899268559] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>shockthemonkey posted...</cite> <quote> this is how children act when they know theyre wrong</quote> They post emojis and troll? <cite>COVxy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>We will literally never have those statistics</quote> You should take a class in statistics. Really cheap to take a single class at a local community college. It's really an important skill set for everyone to have, to be able to understand and interpret statistics.</quote> Ok. So do you have anything of substance to add that's relevant to the discussion or are you once again resorting to ad hominem attacks and trolling to avoid admitting you're wrong? Because there's no other way for me to take this post than an immature poster refusing to concede a point. Idk what statistics course you think exists that would ever give us the insight into the human mind to tell us the exact statistics for what causes our behavior. I mean I keep laughing at you for thinking a statistics course would even help in this situation but you don't seem to have realized how silly that logic is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 10:48:01 AM #94:	YOUHAVENOHOPE posted... i will admit after taking a step back and re-reading everything i seem to have misunderstood but it's really a surface-level perception OBVIOUSLY someone with mental disorders/illnesses will have a higher rate of suicide. The PROBLEM seems to stem here that some appear to be suggesting that bullying was not a significant factor in the suicide. If you REALLY think bullying had little to do with their unfortunate suicide, then I seriously worry for you. But at the same time, if you REALLY think trans people are just prone to committing suicide without outside stimuli and think bullying has little-to-no effect on peoples psyche (as well as living in an environment constantly hostile to you), I have to wonder about you Hey at least you're starting to come around, unlike the other hard headed posters ITT. Idk if anyone is claiming bullying has just a small effect tho, seems as though that's the argument a few posters keep wanting to argue against, so they just act as if that's what other people have posted. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899268629] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...</cite> <quote>i will admit after taking a step back and re-reading everything i seem to have misunderstood but it's really a surface-level perception OBVIOUSLY someone with mental disorders/illnesses will have a higher rate of suicide. The PROBLEM seems to stem here that some appear to be suggesting that bullying was not a significant factor in the suicide. If you REALLY think bullying had little to do with their unfortunate suicide, then I seriously worry for you. But at the same time, if you REALLY think trans people are just prone to committing suicide without outside stimuli and think bullying has little-to-no effect on peoples psyche (as well as living in an environment constantly hostile to you), I have to wonder about you</quote> Hey at least you're starting to come around, unlike the other hard headed posters ITT. Idk if anyone is claiming bullying has just a small effect tho, seems as though that's the argument a few posters keep wanting to argue against, so they just act as if that's what other people have posted.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Wheelman1 04/08/18 10:48:50 AM #95:	Kids are massive assholes but there's not much we can do about it. That's just part of life and we have to deal with it. No amount of new school laws and regulations can ever change that. --- XBox Live GT: MastaMez PSN: KoolMez The Topic Killer \_0_/ <cite>The Wheelman1 posted [p:899268654] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>Kids are massive assholes but there's not much we can do about it. That's just part of life and we have to deal with it. No amount of new school laws and regulations can ever change that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 04/08/18 10:50:43 AM #96:	nicklebro posted... Ok. So do you have anything of substance to add that's relevant to the discussion or are you once again resorting to ad hominem attacks and trolling to avoid admitting you're wrong? Because there's no other way for me to take this post than an immature poster refusing to concede a point. Idk what statistics course you think exists that would ever give us the insight into the human mind to tell us the exact statistics for what causes our behavior. I mean I keep laughing at you for thinking a statistics course would even help in this situation but you don't seem to have realized how silly that logic is. I never stated that the statistics would give causality (though, there are several forms of statistics that try to get at this, structural equation modelling for data like this and granger causality analysis for time based data), but parse out the independent contributions of each factor to the increased suicide risk. This statistical logic is the same type that is used when they found that the gender pay gap is largely driven by differences in career choices and other behavior. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:899268715] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>nicklebro posted...</cite> <quote>Ok. So do you have anything of substance to add that's relevant to the discussion or are you once again resorting to ad hominem attacks and trolling to avoid admitting you're wrong? Because there's no other way for me to take this post than an immature poster refusing to concede a point. Idk what statistics course you think exists that would ever give us the insight into the human mind to tell us the exact statistics for what causes our behavior. I mean I keep laughing at you for thinking a statistics course would even help in this situation but you don't seem to have realized how silly that logic is. </quote> I never stated that the statistics would give causality (though, there are several forms of statistics that try to get at this, structural equation modelling for data like this and granger causality analysis for time based data), but parse out the independent contributions of each factor to the increased suicide risk. This statistical logic is the same type that is used when they found that the gender pay gap is largely driven by differences in career choices and other behavior.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gatorsPENSbucs 04/08/18 10:52:11 AM #97:	So lets say some random person is transitioning and depressed and having these bad thoughts and then one day one bully says one thing that makes the transitioning person go through with those awful thoughts. In that case, would bullying be a small factor or a huge factor or the only factor? Trying to be serious, just want an idea of how it is. --- http://m.imgur.com/BtD5etN?r https://m.imgur.com/a/jclul http://i.imgtc.com/etNW2apANm.jpg <cite>gatorsPENSbucs posted [p:899268767] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>So lets say some random person is transitioning and depressed and having these bad thoughts and then one day one bully says one thing that makes the transitioning person go through with those awful thoughts. In that case, would bullying be a small factor or a huge factor or the only factor? Trying to be serious, just want an idea of how it is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 10:55:35 AM #98:	Weird how you still haven't managed to list a single comparable example of how statistics would give us precise %s on what determines our behavior. It's almost as if even if that were scientifically possible, that it would take more than statistics to determine. Regardless you already admitted that being trans puts you are a higher risk for suicide so idk why in wasting anymore time on you. You had your chance to contribute to this topic, you did a bad job. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899268893] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote>Weird how you still haven't managed to list a single comparable example of how statistics would give us precise %s on what determines our behavior. It's almost as if even if that were scientifically possible, that it would take more than statistics to determine. Regardless you already admitted that being trans puts you are a higher risk for suicide so idk why in wasting anymore time on you. You had your chance to contribute to this topic, you did a bad job.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nicklebro 04/08/18 10:57:45 AM #99:	gatorsPENSbucs posted... So lets say some random person is transitioning and depressed and having these bad thoughts and then one day one bully says one thing that makes the transitioning person go through with those awful thoughts. In that case, would bullying be a small factor or a huge factor or the only factor? Trying to be serious, just want an idea of how it is. I'd say a small factor, but that's just my opinion on a vague hypothetical situation. I mean if they're just bullied one time and then kill themselves, I'd have to guess that the other factors were far more to blame. But again, that's just a guess. --- Now you can't call me a sigless user. <cite>nicklebro posted [p:899268981] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>gatorsPENSbucs posted...</cite> <quote>So lets say some random person is transitioning and depressed and having these bad thoughts and then one day one bully says one thing that makes the transitioning person go through with those awful thoughts. In that case, would bullying be a small factor or a huge factor or the only factor? Trying to be serious, just want an idea of how it is.</quote> I'd say a small factor, but that's just my opinion on a vague hypothetical situation. I mean if they're just bullied one time and then kill themselves, I'd have to guess that the other factors were far more to blame. But again, that's just a guess.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GoIdSocksForWok 04/08/18 10:58:46 AM #100:	The Admiral posted... I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, but it's not nearly as much of a factor as the condition itself. Even transgenders who are not bullied and who undergo SRS and hormone treatments commit suicide at rates that are 10x higher than the generation population. True --- Steam/NNID/PSN/LoL: BloodFislandMan / XBL: EvoTech462 Unbiased Gamer / NP: WoW, MHW, FFXII Remaster, Atelier Lydie and Suelle, OverWatch <cite>GoIdSocksForWok posted [p:899269027] in 12 y/o bul... [t:76493944]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Admiral posted...</cite> <quote>I'm sure the bullying was a factor in this suicide, and that's terrible, but it's not nearly as much of a factor as the condition itself. Even transgenders who are not bullied and who undergo SRS and hormone treatments commit suicide at rates that are 10x higher than the generation population.</quote> True</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > 12 y/o bullied for being transgender commits suicide. Obituary goes viral. (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > 12 y/o bullied for being transgender commits suicide. Obituary goes viral.