Board 8 > kpop topic - nobody likes you

(+) Yeah! (+)

i was disappointed in 'i am a woman too' personally. it's a bit too subdued for what i would have wanted from a minah solo.

i don't know if there's a clear pattern to my biases. it's maybe too long a list to discern one, but there are a lot of main vocalists on there.
---

PumpkinCoach posted...

i was disappointed in 'i am a woman too' personally. it's a bit too subdued for what i would have wanted from a minah solo.

I understand having expectations for music when it gets released, I do it a lot too. But given that I just started listening to Girl's Day a few days ago and I haven't formed a whole lot of expectations about any of them, I just listened to the song blind. And at first I wasn't a huge fan, thought it was decent but not really special.

The more I listened, the more I appreciated a lot of the inflections she has during the verses, the more the chorus got stuck in my head, and the more I loved the meaning of it.

The best part is that it's got a groove to it and it's not just a powerful voice on top of a droning slow song! They did that with Choa's solo song (I think it's called Flame) and I think that's really a disappointing solo song, because it doesn't have its own feet to stand on. It has to stand on Choa's talent, and the song itself is boring. Maybe that's kinda what I like about I Am A Woman Too, I like the song on its own but I love her performance of it, so the song has its own merits but gets even better.
---

loving the hidden box videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19gOpW7CvLw" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNiWqc4gopM" data-time="
---

was waiting for this one, and it delivers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urXeqqRsByo" data-time="

this one is also great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1YDO2DclW8" data-time="
---

Gave a listen to some of Girl's Day's early stuff.

They have really, really, REALLY improved and progressed. That was mostly complete trash. Then they have songs like Something and Darling and Don't Be Shy and Love Again.

I guess Everyday #3 is where they flipped the switch? If anyone here knows exactly where the turning point was, it'd help me out with knowing what to spend time on listening to
---

that depends on which songs you classify as complete trash! they kind of have multiple turning points. i'll break it down through singles.

tilt my head - one of the worst debuts ever. it's a real success story that they managed to recover from this, let alone go on to have the longevity they have.

nothing lasts forever - a turning point, and some would say their best song (it's up there). it felt like a song from a completely different group, not least of all because 2 members left while yura and hyeri joined.

twinkle twinkle to oh my god - but then rather than running in the same direction as the previous, they went ultra cutesy. i'm guessing at least some of this is the complete trash you're referring to, in which case i may be the wrong person to ask because i rather like this period? 'don't flirt' is my fave of the bunch. it's also a turning point in the sense that this is where they found financial success. unfortunately, jihae left after this.

don't forget me - this is their best song imo, and gets overlooked often as it falls between their 2 major defining periods (cutesy and sexy). this is a good place to start.

expectation - their second reinvention, and where they start to resemble the group you're familiar with. not a huge fan of expectation personally, but female president is a good song.

something - this is when they start working with duble sidekick a bunch, but you're already familiar.

also, obligatory top 5 songs:
Nothing Lasts Forever
Don't Flirt
Don't Forget Me
Darling
Hello Bubble
---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-DgzJa-nfU" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfjamoPhjRE" data-time="
it's sohye.
---

PumpkinCoach posted...

tilt my head - one of the worst debuts ever. it's a real success story that they managed to recover from this, let alone go on to have the longevity they have.

agreed

PumpkinCoach posted...

nothing lasts forever - a turning point, and some would say their best song (it's up there). it felt like a song from a completely different group, not least of all because 2 members left while yura and hyeri joined.

This was not part of the group I had heard because it's not on Spotify so I had no idea this song existed. It's good but not fantastic IMO.

PumpkinCoach posted...

twinkle twinkle to oh my god - but then rather than running in the same direction as the previous, they went ultra cutesy. i'm guessing at least some of this is the complete trash you're referring to, in which case i may be the wrong person to ask because i rather like this period? 'don't flirt' is my fave of the bunch. it's also a turning point in the sense that this is where they found financial success. unfortunately, jihae left after this.

This is indeed the group of songs I did not like at all. Ultra cutesy ain't my thing. Sexy is cool I suppose but I'm really just in it for the music, and groups going for that cutesy sound often kills it for me. Sexy can sound like a lot of different things so it doesn't affect the music much often.

PumpkinCoach posted...

don't forget me - this is their best song imo, and gets overlooked often as it falls between their 2 major defining periods (cutesy and sexy). this is a good place to start.

good! maybe a little unremarkable though. there's not a whole lot that stands out in this song to me. it may take a few listens to really grow on me

PumpkinCoach posted...

expectation - their second reinvention, and where they start to resemble the group you're familiar with. not a huge fan of expectation personally, but female president is a good song. i suppose there isn't a clean break album-wise though, because iirc these 2 were only ever bundled awkwardly with their cutesy stuff in their first full album.

Yeah this whole album feels like a mash-up of different stuff. The song Expect is alright, not big on Female President (but it's decent I suppose), and the album as a whole I'm not in love with either.

I'll give my current top 5 in order - it's pretty close to the list of songs I posted earlier:
Something
Love Again
Don't Be Shy
Darling
Whistle

EDIT: If I were to place Minah's solo stuff in that top 5 somewhere, I'd place I Am A Woman Too below Something, and Colorful in the same place as Darling
---

love again is a good shout.

both their full-length albums are essentially compilations of previous work, but it's a lot more noticeable for the first one. girl's day isn't my favourite group, but i find their discography interesting because of how hard they lean into their concept changes. i totally get where you're coming from about the cutesy songs, especially because girl's day leans into that aegyo voice harder than most, and maybe you're not into that.
---

Is there a girl group that doesn't do concepts? Like, they just release music and perform and they're just themselves all the time.

Would be interested in listening to that group
---

hmm, i'm not really sure what that would even be. i think just getting up on stage to sing and dance is enough of a pretense that there's no such thing as a non-concept or neutral concept. when people say concept, they're really just giving a broad description of the mood/feeling of the piece. kpop being trend-driven and derivative, people usually try to categorize everything under cute, sexy, or "girl crush" (though not every cute concept is the same, etc.), but even if something doesn't fit comfortable under one of those, there's still a concept. honestly the term is kind of meaningless, but people are used to it. for example, here are some answers from some (g)i-dle members about what concept they want to try:

miyeon: more natural
soojin: totally dark
yuqi: bright
shuhua: cutie sexy (helped by staff)

'more natural' is sort of what you want, but it's vague. and yes, 'cutie sexy' is a common term, which drives home how wishy-washy concepts can be. maybe i'm being pedantic, but i can't quite imagine what just being themselves would be in the context of a stage performance.
---

What I meant was like an American rock band. Foo Fighters obviously has a genre, but they just get up on stage and play their music and have fun for 3 hours. Eagles get on stage and play Eagles music for a couple hours.

This has me thinking about BTS. When I see them doing their performances at the Billboard awards, I can't really tell if they have a concept.

But you're definitely right that it's hard to completely get rid of the concept idea in a K-pop group. I think the girl groups would probably get tied to concepts a lot easier than the guy groups too. I wouldn't know for sure because I'm not too knowledgeable, but I would imagine the costumes the girls wear and the cute/sexy stuff automatically make it easy to classify any release.
---

A girl group that's been absolutely free of concepts throughout their whole careers is probably impossible.

I think Brown Eyed Girls are pretty free of concepts. I mean like one of their songs could be for example "sexy", but I don't think it's so much because they're doing a sexy concept, necessarily.

Mamamoo certainly have genres, and they're very much conceptualized at times, but they also have some freer stuff.

f(x) was pretty conceptual in the beginning, but once they matured it's not so much that they didn't have concepts, just that their concepts were pretty outside the usual girl group concepts. Kinda. A little bit. I think Ladies Code was also meant to be a different group.

A group's uniqueness should shine brighter than their concept. Concepts aren't bad, it's just that they tend to stick out and a group can get drowned in it. But a good group will transcend their concepts. I think Girl's Day is a good group for example. They're clearly conceptualized, but it's okay. They're Girl's Day before they're cute or sexy or whatever.
---

It depends on what we mean by 'concepts', but I'd say all music acts have them, especially pop music. It's just that kpop groups change concepts often, while a rock band may stick to one. There are still aesthetic choices in the visual presentation that are working off of certain conventions, and are part of communicating what the group is about. Kpop just puts more emphasis on the visual aspect, with attention to choreography and styling, hence why the idea of concepts gets talked about a lot. There's nothing intrinsic about how those elements are combined with the music, so it's interesting to look at concepts in terms of how it all comes together.

But like I said, concepts in kpop are nebulous descriptors that are not as limiting or codified as they sound, or even describing the same type of thing all the time. It's just an easy shorthand for groups introducing their song during an interview or press release in a sentence or two, possibly used alongside details about music genre or subject matter. A group saying their next song has a bright concept says it's upbeat, but doesn't determine much else about it. It's only limiting when someone is trying to dismiss everything as either cute or sexy, which is a false dichotomy both in the sense that both are still selling sex, and in the sense that there are way more than 2 concepts. That said, there are types of sexy or cute concepts that are commonly used, because companies like to run with what's worked in the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0ZHXVp_wUE" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO7qQ7peKeM" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9GqA2veVH4" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8Fst_zonU" data-time="

Though if you see a combination of elements often enough then it's more akin to a genre. Honestly, is there a difference between concepts and genres?

Solioxrz362 posted...

This has me thinking about BTS. When I see them doing their performances at the Billboard awards, I can't really tell if they have a concept.

I think it's just because they're not wearing matching outfits? Though the outfits are still carefully coordinated for everyone to have an individual style.
---

SHINee - Good Evening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dGwk5-QMpc" data-time="
there's a part where the synths remind me of the ones in 'free somebody'. anyways, it's good. i love the parts where they're all singing together.

AOA - Bingle Bangle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntWSnDV0MYs" data-time="
i dig the whistling, but not much else.

Pristin V - Get It

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z3iyydFevQ" data-time="
still sad there's no yuha.
---

also eyyy we have a small window for an awkward rena and soyeon interaction.
---

PumpkinCoach posted...

But like I said, concepts in kpop are nebulous descriptors that are not as limiting or codified as they sound, or even describing the same type of thing all the time. It's just an easy shorthand for groups introducing their song during an interview or press release in a sentence or two, possibly used alongside details about music genre or subject matter. A group saying their next song has a bright concept says it's upbeat, but doesn't determine much else about it. It's only limiting when someone is trying to dismiss everything as either cute or sexy, which is a false dichotomy both in the sense that both are still selling sex, and in the sense that there are way more than 2 concepts. That said, there are types of sexy or cute concepts that are commonly used, because companies like to run with what's worked in the past.

Though if you see a combination of elements often enough then it's more akin to a genre. Honestly, is there a difference between concepts and genres?

Full agree. Yeah, even classical music has "concepts". Concept and mood are very related. Like you said, a concept is like the visual or overall aesthetic style of the piece, collection or artist. Concepts are certainly related to genre, specially to the moods that might go with a certain genre, as certain genres go better with certain concepts, or perhaps I should say it the other way around. It's hard to make a cute ballad, for example, at least for pop consumption. But it's much easier to make a "pure" ballad. Yeah I think this helps show that concepts are not a clear cut thing, for sure. They're a varied spectrum. But as we just said, they're always there nonetheless.

So yeah, Brown Eyed Girls for example always have a concept. Always had, always will. It only makes sense to speak of "girl groups that don't do concepts" relatively.
---

Ate at a Korean BBQ restaurant today and they had kpop playing with a projector screen... only problem was the song and MV were totally different. Why would they ruining that?
---

Is it by chance in Singapore? That's where I was.
---

I'm not huge on Bingle Bangle either. The verses are immensely better than the chorus but the chorus is pretty bad. It's a decent song I suppose but I suspect the side tracks are going to outclass it. Haven't listened to the whole mini-album yet.
---

Official Solio Bingle Bangle review:

It's okay.

The single is pretty great up until you hear them say "Bingle Bangle" over and over again. I really don't know who thought that was a good idea to put in a song. Also, I'm not a big fan of Jimin's rap but I never am, so maybe that's just me.

I'll say I think Heat is the best song, and I was definitely wrong about the side tracks outclassing Bingle Bangle. They're all average, with Heat being above average and DoDoDo maybe just slightly being above average. It feels like all of these songs don't have the same kind of kick to them that their previous singles did. Songs like Miniskirt and Heart Attack are so good because they have a certain presence and a lot of punch to the beat. These songs on the other hand... well, they're a little flat, a little boring, and most of them have a part or two that I have to question what songwriter or producer thought it would sound good. And I think that no member really gets to stand out on any of these songs. Everyone feels like they're still in their same roles and not stepping up after Choa's departure (I hate to gauge this comeback based on how it is without Choa, but it really does feel like there is no musical leader now. Which was kinda what Choa was, she was the biggest part of their sound)

On that note, I'll say that they got the line distribution better this time. Mina is getting more singing time, and Chanmi has more than 2 lines on all the songs. In some cases, Chanmi and Jimin rap exactly the same amount of time, which I think is nice because she was the member who got shorted the most before this release.

I'll give it a 5/10 because it's completely middle of the road K-pop for me. I only dislike one song, and there's only one song that I definitively like, while the rest are just okay.
---

Loona yyxy - love4eva (feat. Grimes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIWpr3tHzII" data-time="
wasn't feeling it at first, but i'm really digging that chorus rn. e-tribe definitely taking some cues from 'gee', though, as a lot of people have noticed, the song it really reminds me of is 'very very very'. is e-tribe getting back in the game now? because the sound of theirs i really want them to revive is mblaq's 'cry'.

also, the loona theorists got me excited for a yeojin appearance for nothing.
---

Spotify just put on pick me by produce 48

this is going to be stuck in my head all week
---

PumpkinCoach posted...

Loona yyxy - love4eva (feat. Grimes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIWpr3tHzII" data-time="
wasn't feeling it at first, but i'm really digging that chorus rn. e-tribe definitely taking some cues from 'gee', though, as a lot of people have noticed, the song it really reminds me of is 'very very very'. is e-tribe getting back in the game now? because the sound of theirs i really want them to revive is mblaq's 'cry'.

also, the loona theorists got me excited for a yeojin appearance for nothing.

i don't like it. sounds too samey. which is a bummer because i was digging all the other loona stuff that I've listened to!
---

Weakupedia posted...

Spotify just put on pick me by produce 48

this is going to be stuck in my head all week

best version of pick me so far imo

produce 48 > season 2 (nayana) > china > season 1
---

hui on 'breakers' has been such a treat.

Hui - Swim Good (feat. Somin of KARD)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs-AEYAG3L0" data-time="

also hey, there's eyedi and sara in the audience

and i guess from the same pepsi ad campaign that brought us YDPP:

WJMK - Strong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMukx_M2oN0" data-time="

wish pepsi could have sprung for a better song though
---

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DezwIzjUYAAoUPv.jpg

only 4 songs
---

assuming we're not looking at

1. Ddu-du Ddu-du
2. As If It's Your Last
3. As If It's Your Last (Acoustic Remix)
4. Ddu-du Ddu-du (Inst.)
---

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De4rKmjV4AIURYu.jpg

ah, it's actually 4 songs.
---

PumpkinCoach posted...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De4rKmjV4AIURYu.jpg

ah, it's actually 4 songs.

good, it's always bothered me seeing the kpop releases with two extra tracks tacked on and they're just instrumental versions of the singles or remixes
---

fromis_9 - DKDK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KuJqe3Epg" data-time="
maybe not quite on the level of 'to heart' but still great, and maybe i need to stan.

also, who's directing their MVs? they're good.

Yubin - Lady

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MiQonPvlVM" data-time="
oh shit, full-on city pop. not too suprisingly, this feels the most wonder girls-y of the solo works.

(incidentally, this is sort of what i wanted for CLC aesthetically. people on the cute/sexy dichotomy confused 'where are you' for a cute concept, and it's down to the visual style rather than the song.)
---

fromis_9 - 22nd Century Girl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KktKFYbWx_U" data-time="
this.
---

um i just saw an LG smartphone commercial come on the TV at the pizza place I was having lunch at

it had some kpop boyband staring into the camera while holding the phone. like straight up a commercial you'd see in korea

but not costa mesa, CA

how odd. but i like it.
---

I keep getting those BTS commercials in between my kpop playlist at work. I think they're advertising a phone? I will pay more attention next time.
---

i've not to seen one of those BTS ads yet, but i don't see many ads in general.

Katie - Remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAWI6nMQhQI" data-time="
damn, katie kim looking good.
---

PumpkinCoach posted...

i've not to seen one of those BTS ads yet, but i don't see many ads in general.

Katie - Remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAWI6nMQhQI" data-time="
damn, katie kim looking good.

i like that someone in the industry is trying this

but i did not like the song. weak drop, second verse too slow. i spent the entire song waiting for something to happen

but I'm glad that the song exists
---

not super knowledgeable on the kr&b scene, but a couple of recs you might appreciate (if i'm understanding what you're looking for):

Jimin Park - Answer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBsJuc0ltPQ" data-time="

Saay - Sweaty (feat. Crush)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf1Exou0AOI" data-time="

Saay - Circle (feat. Tish Hyman)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybDMTVpuefU" data-time="

Eyedi - Best Mistake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2Tq-93CQEM" data-time="

Eyedi - Taste the Party

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjGV-pxi1H8" data-time="

Code Kunst - X (feat. Lee Hi)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSpfJS7SDP0" data-time="

Cosmic Girl - I'm OK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dKuXkRhmw0" data-time="
---

ONF - Complete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka9zaVL28OY" data-time="

ACE - Take Me Higher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4ELX7LyXDw" data-time="

aw yeah, 2 of the best rookies last year back at the same time after being screwed over by mixnine.

btw nio, i think you might like ACE's earlier stuff (as in, their 2 songs last year)..
---