Current Events > How would the socialists/communists of this site fix Venezuela?

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PlantLivesMatte
02/24/18 11:01:33 PM
#1:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNjtpksJD4s


Just a few of the noteworthy items from the video:

-It is now more lucrative for the Venezuelan military to traffic food instead of drugs thanks to hyperinflation and food shortages.

-World of Warcraft (video game) money is now more valuable than Venezuelan money. Venezuela used to be the richest economy in South America before socialist thugs put their loyalists in charge of the oil industry.

-Speaking of money, many Venezuelans are ditching the Bolivar and investing in BItcoin instead.

-Venezuelan hospitals are severely lacking supplies, sheets, soap, etc. Performing surgery is likened to practicing "battlefield medicine." Infant deaths and malaria cases are also skyrocketing across the country due to severe lack of medical shortages and lack of food. Venezuelans report that they have to bring their own medicine to hospitals if they want treatment as doctors lack 80% of the medicine they need. In 2017 alone, infant mortality rose to almost 35%, and maternal mortality rose to 65%.

-Venezuelans have lost an average of 19 lbs. in weight due to food shortages (meanwhile, Maduro was seen snacking during a live TV broadcast and consequently ridiculed for getting fat during a food shortage). Venezuela is now #1 in Latina America for acute malnutrition.

-82% of Venezuelans now live in poverty, and mass migration of Venezuelans to other countries is taking place.

-After the Venezuelan Supreme Court dissolved congress and declared Maduro to be the National Assembly, Maduro claimed it was a "right wing conspiracy." After much protest and global condemnation, the Venezuelan Supreme Court reinstated the National Assembly.

Or do you side with Bernie Sanders?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBjjP8WSbc

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#2
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Manocheese
02/24/18 11:08:31 PM
#3:


According to socialists, all the problems you listed are caused by capitalism. If Venezuela simply became even more socialist, those problems would go away.
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REMercsChamp
02/24/18 11:09:18 PM
#4:


Free video games and money for everyone will fix these issues
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PlantLivesMatte
02/24/18 11:51:59 PM
#5:


REMercsChamp posted...
Free video games and money for everyone will fix these issues


Would that be sustainable in the long run?
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Annihilated
02/24/18 11:55:09 PM
#6:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
REMercsChamp posted...
Free video games and money for everyone will fix these issues


Would that be sustainable in the long run?


He's probably kidding but I never know with him. I've caught him masquerading as a conservative poster many times.
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averagejoel
02/24/18 11:56:59 PM
#7:


venezuela is not socialist, and their problems are caused by US imperialism

I've lost count of how many times I've addressed this on this board, but no one fucking listens
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prince_leo
02/24/18 11:57:12 PM
#8:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
Venezuela used to be the richest economy in South America before socialist thugs put their loyalists in charge of the oil industry.

this is a bit of an oversimplification
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Hinakuluiau
02/24/18 11:57:45 PM
#9:


Wasn't TC confirmed to be Proudclad?
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CircleOfManias
02/24/18 11:58:56 PM
#10:


You know how that political compass thing has two axes? Venezuela's problems have fuck all to do with the left/right axis and everything to do with being off the charts authoritarian.
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Kazi1212
02/24/18 11:59:04 PM
#11:


averagejoel posted...
venezuela is not socialist, and their problems are caused by US imperialism

I've lost count of how many times I've addressed this on this board, but no one fucking listens


Can you give me an example in history of a country that you would call a successful socialist or communist nation? Just looking to see where the baseline is
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PlantLivesMatte
02/24/18 11:59:43 PM
#12:


CircleOfManias posted...
You know how that political compass thing has two axes? Venezuela's problems have fuck all to do with the left/right axis and everything to do with being off the charts authoritarian.


So how would you fix it to make it a non-authoritarian, socialist/communist country?
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averagejoel
02/25/18 12:00:25 AM
#13:


CircleOfManias posted...
You know how that political compass thing has two axes? Venezuela's problems have fuck all to do with the left/right axis and everything to do with being off the charts authoritarian.

it has far more to do with the US being imperialist than with any internal politics but ok
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Fishy
02/25/18 12:01:02 AM
#14:


averagejoel posted...
venezuela is not socialist, and their problems are caused by US imperialism

I've lost count of how many times I've addressed this on this board, but no one fucking listens

so basically in a perfect world socialism would work but when literally anything impedes it the whole system implodes?
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 12:02:30 AM
#15:


Is it America's fault that socialist Venezuela now produces less than 2 million barrels of oil per day as confirmed by OPEC to be the lowest oil producing country in the world?
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averagejoel
02/25/18 12:03:02 AM
#16:


Fishy posted...
averagejoel posted...
venezuela is not socialist, and their problems are caused by US imperialism

I've lost count of how many times I've addressed this on this board, but no one fucking listens

so basically in a perfect world socialism would work but when literally anything impedes it the whole system implodes?

by "literally anything" do you mean "the strongest military power in the history of the world"?
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Fishy
02/25/18 12:06:00 AM
#17:


averagejoel posted...
by "literally anything" do you mean "the strongest military power in the history of the world"?

oh right i forgot about the us troops roaming the streets of venezuela forcing children to buy mcdonalds with their runescape money
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averagejoel
02/25/18 12:07:36 AM
#18:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
Is it America's fault that socialist Venezuela now produces less than 2 million barrels of oil per day as confirmed by OPEC to be the lowest oil producing country in the world?

I see a lot of loaded questions on here
and a lot of disingenuous questions
and a lot of irrelevant questions

it's not often that I see all three cranked up to 11 in one question.

congratulations, this is now the worst question I've seen on this site
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mehmeh1
02/25/18 12:08:16 AM
#19:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
CircleOfManias posted...
You know how that political compass thing has two axes? Venezuela's problems have fuck all to do with the left/right axis and everything to do with being off the charts authoritarian.


So how would you fix it to make it a non-authoritarian, socialist/communist country?

tbh, while it wouldn't fix it, getting rid of maduro and getting the democracy back would (or at least should, but it's not a guarantee either way) help, but it'd still be quite a difficult task.
Also, just as an interesting fact, venezuelan immigration has been a topic of contention where I live (Peru), not entirely unlike the whole "they're taking our jobs" thing from Trump
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 12:10:26 AM
#20:


averagejoel posted...
PlantLivesMatte posted...
Is it America's fault that socialist Venezuela now produces less than 2 million barrels of oil per day as confirmed by OPEC to be the lowest oil producing country in the world?

I see a lot of loaded questions on here
and a lot of disingenuous questions
and a lot of irrelevant questions

it's not often that I see all three cranked up to 11 in one question.

congratulations, this is now the worst question I've seen on this site


Too difficult for you to answer? k.
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HiddenLurker
02/25/18 12:10:56 AM
#21:


Kazi1212 posted...
averagejoel posted...
venezuela is not socialist, and their problems are caused by US imperialism

I've lost count of how many times I've addressed this on this board, but no one fucking listens


Can you give me an example in history of a country that you would call a successful socialist or communist nation? Just looking to see where the baseline is

There is no baseline. According to fanatical socialist like average here socialism is perfect. So perfect in fact that it is literally impossible to implement unless he personally is in charge.
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 12:11:43 AM
#22:


mehmeh1 posted...
PlantLivesMatte posted...
CircleOfManias posted...
You know how that political compass thing has two axes? Venezuela's problems have fuck all to do with the left/right axis and everything to do with being off the charts authoritarian.


So how would you fix it to make it a non-authoritarian, socialist/communist country?

tbh, while it wouldn't fix it, getting rid of maduro and getting the democracy back would (or at least should, but it's not a guarantee either way) help, but it'd still be quite a difficult task.
Also, just as an interesting fact, venezuelan immigration has been a topic of contention where I live (Peru), not entirely unlike the whole "they're taking our jobs" thing from Trump


And what would prevent the next leader from becoming another Maduro or even worse than Maduro?
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Questionmarktarius
02/25/18 12:12:53 AM
#23:


To be fair, Venezuela wasn't ruined by socialism, but by the same sort of strongman crony socialism that's ruined several African nations. Most notably Zimbabwe.
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theAteam
02/25/18 12:14:20 AM
#24:


I'd start by actually making it socialist by giving the means of production to the workers.
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 12:14:59 AM
#25:


theAteam posted...
I'd start by actually making it socialist by giving the means of production to the workers.


Who qualifies as a "worker"? Technically, Bill Gates is a worker.
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Questionmarktarius
02/25/18 12:16:51 AM
#26:


If you want examples that work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
Finland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, and Denmark
Arguably also Canada
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Fishy
02/25/18 12:18:56 AM
#27:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
Who qualifies as a "worker"? Technically, Bill Gates is a worker.

the dumb ones that aren't smart enough to procure the means themselves
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averagejoel
02/25/18 12:20:09 AM
#28:


HiddenLurker posted...
Kazi1212 posted...
averagejoel posted...
venezuela is not socialist, and their problems are caused by US imperialism

I've lost count of how many times I've addressed this on this board, but no one fucking listens


Can you give me an example in history of a country that you would call a successful socialist or communist nation? Just looking to see where the baseline is

There is no baseline. According to fanatical socialist like average here socialism is perfect. So perfect in fact that it is literally impossible to implement unless he personally is in charge.

not sure where you got this idea. it definitely wasn't from someone who knows what they're talking about.

@ the original question: can you name some socialist countries that have not been severely hurt by American, British, or French imperialism?
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Annihilated
02/25/18 12:20:26 AM
#29:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
theAteam posted...
I'd start by actually making it socialist by giving the means of production to the workers.


Who qualifies as a "worker"? Technically, Bill Gates is a worker.


He's probably thinking of shareholders, which exist literally everywhere in the world at all classes.
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averagejoel
02/25/18 12:20:41 AM
#30:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
theAteam posted...
I'd start by actually making it socialist by giving the means of production to the workers.


Who qualifies as a "worker"? Technically, Bill Gates is a worker.

lol no he's not
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Questionmarktarius
02/25/18 12:22:37 AM
#31:


averagejoel posted...
PlantLivesMatte posted...
theAteam posted...
I'd start by actually making it socialist by giving the means of production to the workers.


Who qualifies as a "worker"? Technically, Bill Gates is a worker.

lol no he's not

What about Wozniak?
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 12:22:53 AM
#32:


Fishy posted...
PlantLivesMatte posted...
Who qualifies as a "worker"? Technically, Bill Gates is a worker.

the dumb ones that aren't smart enough to procure the means themselves


They tried that in Venezuela. As a result, it tanked their oil industry and their economy.
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Darklit_Minuet
02/25/18 12:24:34 AM
#33:


The problem was that their economy was centered around oil. Something like that isn't sustainable, regardless of what economic system you're in. Oil will slowly become phased out in favor of much cleaner sources of energy.

They should focus on some other kind of product. Say, marijuana. It'll be legal worldwide within the next few years anyhow, they can become the world's leading exporter of it and sustain a socialist paradise that way.
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 12:26:43 AM
#34:


Darklit_Minuet posted...
They should focus on some other kind of product. Say, marijuana.


Marijuana is already becoming near worthless here in California now that it's legal.
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Darklit_Minuet
02/25/18 12:27:09 AM
#35:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
Darklit_Minuet posted...
They should focus on some other kind of product. Say, marijuana.


Marijuana is already becoming near worthless here in California now that it's legal.

Nowhere near as worthless as oil
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Questionmarktarius
02/25/18 12:30:11 AM
#36:


Darklit_Minuet posted...
Oil will slowly become phased out in favor of much cleaner sources of energy.

But, petroleum will never fully die, mostly as a feedstock for plastics.
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Darklit_Minuet
02/25/18 12:30:52 AM
#37:


Questionmarktarius posted...
Darklit_Minuet posted...
Oil will slowly become phased out in favor of much cleaner sources of energy.

But, petroleum will never fully die, mostly as a feedstock for plastics.

Plastic will be replaced by very shiny metal. The future is shiny
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 12:31:37 AM
#38:


Darklit_Minuet posted...
PlantLivesMatte posted...
Darklit_Minuet posted...
They should focus on some other kind of product. Say, marijuana.


Marijuana is already becoming near worthless here in California now that it's legal.

Nowhere near as worthless as oil


In many ways it's even more worthless than oil. People can grow their own marijuana. They can't grow their own oil.
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Darklit_Minuet
02/25/18 12:32:23 AM
#39:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
In many ways it's even more worthless than oil. People can grow their own marijuana. They can't grow their own oil.

People can grow their own marijuana and then turn it into oil. I have a friend who does that. Haven't tried it but it's apparently really good
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Questionmarktarius
02/25/18 12:38:25 AM
#40:


Darklit_Minuet posted...
Questionmarktarius posted...
Darklit_Minuet posted...
Oil will slowly become phased out in favor of much cleaner sources of energy.

But, petroleum will never fully die, mostly as a feedstock for plastics.

Plastic will be replaced by very shiny metal. The future is shiny

No. Organically sourced polycarbons, or boron-nitride
Graphene or BN tubes are going to be big

Coal is going to become huge again. Not to catch it on fire, but because we're going to figure out structural carbon, soon.
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DarkDragon400
02/25/18 12:45:49 AM
#41:


Darklit_Minuet posted...
PlantLivesMatte posted...
In many ways it's even more worthless than oil. People can grow their own marijuana. They can't grow their own oil.

People can grow their own marijuana and then turn it into oil. I have a friend who does that. Haven't tried it but it's apparently really good

I think that's a different kind of oil.
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JBaLLEN66
02/25/18 12:47:04 AM
#42:


Venezuelas failures arent only from 6 years ago
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Axiom
02/25/18 12:48:22 AM
#43:


Did your main get modded Proudclad
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muchdran
02/25/18 12:51:10 AM
#44:


Everyone gets a basic wage and a Netflix subscription
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 1:56:14 AM
#45:


So from what I gather from the die hard leftists is that socialism can't work unless they wipe out capitalism everywhere.
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Sayoria
02/25/18 1:59:45 AM
#46:


Sounds like the US would have to pull out of the Good Neighbor policy.
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MutantJohn
02/25/18 2:00:58 AM
#47:


Imagining expecting a serious answer to this on a video game message board site
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Questionmarktarius
02/25/18 2:00:59 AM
#48:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
So from what I gather from the die hard leftists is that socialism can't work unless they wipe out capitalism everywhere.

The actual truth is that socialism cannot exist without a capitalist underpinning, and capitalism cannot exist without a socialist floor.
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PlantLivesMatte
02/25/18 2:28:01 AM
#49:


MutantJohn posted...
Imagining expecting a serious answer to this on a video game message board site


I'm genuinely curious how the leftists here would fix Venezuela.
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Questionmarktarius
02/25/18 2:31:13 AM
#50:


PlantLivesMatte posted...
MutantJohn posted...
Imagining expecting a serious answer to this on a video game message board site


I'm genuinely curious how the leftists here would fix Venezuela.

As someone who has been permanently ruined by Rand and Orwell, I can't say much.

However, Chavez fucked up by handing nationalized entities to his cronies, instead of the actual workers.
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